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Old 2013-09-08, 13:44   Link #24501
Breimoon
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well, it is not like alucard will give them a year to train and one of the three lords alone shouldn't be able to destroy him . Moka and her sister don't seem to be of great help. The only way i see to get rid of Alucard is for moka's dad to appear or for tsukune and moka having a powerup together.
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Old 2013-09-09, 02:33   Link #24502
Alhazad2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
Ikeda can always pull something out of his hat like a shinso blood/human hybrid (+modified body by Touhou Fuhai) might be stronger even than the most powerful pure shinso. Not saying this is what will happen, just a possibility.

And again, why exactly would he need to control this power plot-wise? Maybe he will never be able to control it, it may turn out to be as much of a battle asset as it is a danger to himself and the allies around him. For the plot, all he needs is to unleash his full potential (here: through emotions) and go on a rampage, finish Alucard and then go on to attack allies/civilians to create some drama until something/someone barely manages to pull him back. This ofc is just speculation as well but it's entirely feasible.

As to whether the series would end with the death of Alucard, I already presented a possible follow-up arc in the form of a then incited human-ayashi conflict, which would be much more character-driven than just fighting against a strong foe.

I really don't get why some of you desperately cling to the alleged necessity for Tsukune to go all out shounen SSJ1-2-3 mode as if it was the undeniable truth.
More like pulled out of his butt, and he's shown to be so much better than that. Introducing such a drastic plot twist at this stage of the game would be a severe buttpull, something seen more in bad fanfiction rather than serious stories. And considering how much time and effort he's put into this story, it's not gonna be resolved that easily. But it will be resolved, but not without consequences, a common theme of his.

And once he comes out of his rampage he'll realize just how many people he's killed in the process and then take his own life as penance. It's simply not in his character to shed innocent blood for any reason, and especially that of his friends. As bludevin already said, he'd be no different from Alucard, something that must be avoided at all costs.

That only depends on if Alucard is completely defeated in this last arc of Season II, and I highly doubt he will. Rest assured, regardless of how he's thwarted here, he'll be back.

As for why people think it's necessary for him to harness such power, it's because nothing less will completely destroy Alucard. He'll just keep regenerating and coming back for more. And it'd be foolish to believe he'll acquire such power at this juncture.

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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
^
Oh my, you're really swallowing everything an author throws at you without question. Tsukune hase been in dire situations with his condition before; Moka almost had to kill him when he turned into a ghoul in S1 but abra kadabra deus ex Mikogami appears and transforms him back to normal. What prevents Ikeda from doing something similar? He can always come up with something, even if it might not be too crafty.

The only reason why a rampaging Tsukune would be better than Alucard from a reader's perspective is simply that the former doesn't have any ill intent and can possibly be stopped with no or minumum violence.

And where do you guys get these power levels from to begin with? Yes, Alucard is freaking strong but please give me a source that states that he is x times stronger than Tsukune's berserk form. Was there someone with a scouter who analyzed it to be over 9000 that I missed? My point is, it's all just asssumptions. Mine as well as yours,
First off, he was not transformed back to normal, his rampaging vampire blood was simply sealed away so it couldn't overwhelm his consciousness. As for coming up with something less than crafty, Ikeda is much better than that. His solutions are always plausible, even if they're quite inconvenient to the characters.

And... seriously? He rampages to that extent, and nothing will bring him out of it. Nothing. No matter how you slice it, a berserk rampage is still a berserk rampage. And Tsukune would never be able to live with himself afterwards, it's not in his character.

And as bludevin already stated, check the facts. Alucard is the oldest and strongest vampire in existence, empowered by thousands of monsters; while Tsukune is still struggling to master his own power, and I can assure you it won't happen in this arc. That's no assumption, that's just the cold hard facts. If you're expecting him to do otherwise, again you'll be disappointed. And then some.
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Old 2013-09-09, 03:45   Link #24503
Waven
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I'll try to address the main points:

His lock has been renewed/repaired multiple times already. I just don't buy anymore that breaking it cannot be fixed once again. Same with Moka's rosary. We also got two dark lords who are specialists in this matter right at the scene.

Again, we don't know how strong Tsukune's modified hybrid form is as much as we don't know how strong Alucard really is. Touhou Fuhai thought he could easily kill Tsukune in his berserk form and was in for a surprise. Also, Tsukune is not alone, 2 dark lords + his friends are there to possibly create an opening.

About his berserk form, Kurumu and Touhou Fuhai already managed to pull Tsukune back once. If he hurts someone he doesn't want to hurt in the process and feel guilty about it than that would actually make for a good plot and give him some much needed depth as MC. He doesn't have to kill anyone for that.

And yes, I basically don't think Ikeda is above asspulls at this point given the pacing of dispatching major figures in quick succession lately.
____
You guys' expectations in Ikeda's writing compared to mine is pretty much what this discussion comes down to it seems. We'll have to wait and see if yours are justified. For me this arc has lowered my expectations quite a bit already so it's hard to be that disappointed anymore, which is why I always presented possiblities instead of absolutes (difference in wording).
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Old 2013-09-09, 04:05   Link #24504
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post

His lock has been renewed/repaired multiple times already. I just don't buy anymore that breaking it cannot be fixed once again. Same with Moka's rosary. We also got two dark lords who are specialists in this matter right at the scene.
Oh, really ... then could you tell, me when do you think this has occurred ?

Because I haven't seen the Holy Lock being repaired at all, since the time that Tsukune has received it ... and I haven't seen any development that even implied that something like that happened.
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Old 2013-09-09, 04:58   Link #24505
Waven
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Oh, really ... then could you tell, me when do you think this has occurred ?

Because I haven't seen the Holy Lock being repaired at all, since the time that Tsukune has received it ... and I haven't seen any development that even implied that something like that happened.
I really can't remember, might've been S1 when it cracked several times. I might've even mixed it up with Moka's rosary here. If so, my apology. It's irrelevant to my argumentation, though. The last time he turned into a berserking superghoul the lock didn't break either so in retrospect I don't know why bludvein even brought that up to begin with.
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Old 2013-09-09, 11:03   Link #24506
shadow1296
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i think the holy lock was repaired by touhou fuhai after his body modification to be more compatible for tsukune, it was just repaired off screen
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Old 2013-09-09, 11:40   Link #24507
Chris38
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Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
i think the holy lock was repaired by touhou fuhai after his body modification to be more compatible for tsukune, it was just repaired off screen
There would be something mentioned about that ... though ... since it's a pretty vital piece of information ... and I don't remember it being said.

After all, doubt that Tsukune's seal removal technique, isn't a youjutsu technique, but actually some kind of modification that has been put into his Holy Lock - judging from the runes that appear, whenever Tsukune removes one of the seal's that are implanted into the Holy Lock.
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Old 2013-09-09, 13:35   Link #24508
Tempest35
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Ah, I see...

The Holy Lock before was breaking, but now Tsukune is releasing the seals instead of them being broken. It's a slight difference between having something broken and something repaired. Although, I wonder how Tsukune's Alu-Form came out while the Lock was in place...probably the stress of the body being that mutilated thanks to the Human Mod technique was enough to draw enough of the Shinso power into keeping him alive rather than pouring all the power into fighting.
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Old 2013-09-14, 12:27   Link #24509
Cio
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Men, just want to post because i'm one of those who didn't want to lose Outer Moka here, even it is good for the story, i hope Ikeda can make a reasonable come back for Outer Moka, like Akasha back to save Outer Moka.

Just my 2 cent, i just thought the Bus driver is actually Issa. I think it fits the story well, since he is the one around Tsukune/Moka, maybe he is just disguise himself as bus driver to protect Moka from distance.
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Old 2013-09-14, 15:09   Link #24510
bludvein
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Outer might survive somehow(though I don't see how she can), but I seriously doubt the bus driver is Issa. Their personalities and attitudes are just too different.
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Old 2013-09-14, 17:22   Link #24511
Breimoon
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umh.....maybe some outer moka personalty could be left in Alucard's body?The only way i can see returning since rosario seems gone. Unless there is a "backup" somewhere else...
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Old 2013-09-14, 17:51   Link #24512
cyberdemon
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umh.....maybe some outer moka personalty could be left in Alucard's body?The only way i can see returning since rosario seems gone. Unless there is a "backup" somewhere else...
or that she was originally in the body just suppressed before the Rosario was put on. If Akasha didn't know about it then Akasha could've thought she was putting in a new personality only to release the other one.
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Old 2013-09-14, 21:05   Link #24513
Drkz
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I still feel that Outer Moka is actually Moka's mom. Their resemblence and actions are way too similar for her just to be a persona from the rosario. Maybe with the rosario gone it'll wake her mother as well.

SUPER BUS DRIVER-SAN! I'm more interested in seeing what hes going to do compared to the priest.
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Old 2013-09-14, 23:04   Link #24514
bludvein
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Its not surprising that there would be similarity, as Omote was created by Akasha. She might have even used her own personality as a template...but there are differences all the same. Plus even more importantly Omote obviously doesn't have any of Akasha's skills or memories.
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Old 2013-09-15, 00:43   Link #24515
Cio
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The one thing i'm assure why Outer should come back were because one of Outer Moka last word are "I don't want to be disappear" and Kurumu&Mizore feeling for her when they are beaten by Aqua before "although the personality is fake, but the feeling they have each other is real". I believe Tsukune cs will somehow find a way to resurrected Outer, and it will be something to do with Moka's parent esp Akasha since the rosario were made by her.
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Old 2013-09-15, 01:16   Link #24516
Chris38
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^ Maybe, but if Outer Moka is going to return she won't be in the same form that she had, before the Rosario has been broken / destroyed by Alucard.

The reason is obviously, because Inner Moka needs to have access to her Shinso powers, and learn how to efficiently use them, and the Rosario prevents that from occurring, and the second reason is because of the title of this manga, which might suggest that some sort of union of the Rosario (Outer Moka) and the vampire (Inner Moka) is going to occur .
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Old 2013-09-15, 03:21   Link #24517
Fwarlord
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Because Otome is basically Akasha's creation and clone, maybe when she come out and find out that the rosario was destroyed, Akasha will tell Moka (Ura): "Rest assured, it's ok, I will give you a new one" and take out another rosario, just like how they have bunch of spare Ayanami Rei in Evangelion.
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Old 2013-09-15, 03:22   Link #24518
Soji
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Chris38@ No only thet title but Tsukune as well foreshadowing something like this( or better the author us him for this).

But yeah, she need to learn how to use her power and the same can be said for Tsukune.
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Old 2013-09-21, 17:26   Link #24519
khprincessh
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So holdup I just telling me that outer moka is dead and finally after all these months Tsukune kisses her but he kiss her when she's about to die!! What kind of crap is that!!! Unless she's not really dead or she may come back alive somehow
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Old 2013-09-22, 03:33   Link #24520
konart
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So holdup I just telling me that outer moka is dead and finally after all these months Tsukune kisses her but he kiss her when she's about to die!! What kind of crap is that!!! Unless she's not really dead or she may come back alive somehow
Relax, she's just a sabstitute
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