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Old 2014-02-11, 13:58   Link #25141
Xagzan
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
For the last time, Omote wasn't Akasha

She was an artificial personality based on Akasha, but separate. It can seem like a mere technicality, but its important. Memory and experience make up the bulk of your identity, and they never shared those until Akasha absorbed Omote's memories from the rosario. Omote was "dead" the moment the rosario broke. There was no NTR or anything of the sort.
I never said anything about NTR. Also, when did the rosario break?
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Old 2014-02-11, 14:11   Link #25142
finalfury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
For the last time, Omote wasn't Akasha

She was an artificial personality based on Akasha, but separate. It can seem like a mere technicality, but its important. Memory and experience make up the bulk of your identity, and they never shared those until Akasha absorbed Omote's memories from the rosario. Omote was "dead" the moment the rosario broke. There was no NTR or anything of the sort.
Considering that paste tense is used to refer to the deceased, isn't that statement both true and false at the same time?

Akasha gained the memories of Omote at the end, thus accepting her identity into her own being and responding to Tsukune after being called Moka but died as afterwards, hence referring her in past tense. :x

Sorry for the nitpicking tho.

EDIT: I'm just confused that's all. :/
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Old 2014-02-11, 14:12   Link #25143
bludvein
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Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
I never said anything about NTR. Also, when did the rosario break?
The NTR bit wasn't for you. People were arguing about it earlier. The rosario's jewel broke when they were skewered by Alucard/Miyabi a few chapters ago.
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Old 2014-02-11, 14:55   Link #25144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
For the last time, Omote wasn't Akasha

She was an artificial personality based on Akasha, but separate. It can seem like a mere technicality, but its important. Memory and experience make up the bulk of your identity, and they never shared those until Akasha absorbed Omote's memories from the rosario. Omote was "dead" the moment the rosario broke. There was no NTR or anything of the sort.
Hrm, are you sure? Because from what I can gather, Akasha's own words in the last chapter say otherwise.

"I'm going to erase all my memories, and protect Moka as just a personality."

"I'm able to set off without regrets, because I know how much you (Tsukune) loved me."

Kinda irrefutable, wouldn't you say? Akasha herself admitted she was Omote all along, and Akuha knew it too. It's just everyone else was left in the dark.

And Omote should've been dead after the Rosario's core got gouged out, not to mention it should've been practically useless at that juncture. But alas, it continued to function in that wretched state, which makes no logical sense whatsoever. Sad, it really is, Akihisa really biffed it in the ending, let's hope his next work doesn't suffer the same fate.
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Old 2014-02-11, 15:07   Link #25145
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She had absorbed Omote's memories, so at that point they were basically merged as a single person. That doesn't mean they were the same person beforehand. She wasn't remote controlling that personality from afar or anything.
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Old 2014-02-11, 15:21   Link #25146
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Well either way, that's why I said it was hilarious, and that even if she was Akasha's consciousness/personality, she was still Omote. So Tsukune got the best of both worlds!

You know, except for her dying, that was sad.

So how about my other questions? Tsukune got made headmaster? Was there any indication of what was gonna happen to Aqua afterwards? Or Tsukune and Moka's relationship? I hear we're getting an epilogue though, so maybe that will be addressed there.
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Old 2014-02-11, 15:23   Link #25147
Mahou
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Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
Well either way, that's why I said it was hilarious, and that even if she was Akasha's consciousness/personality, she was still Omote. So Tsukune got the best of both worlds!

You know, except for her dying, that was sad.

So how about my other questions? Tsukune got made headmaster? Was there any indication of what was gonna happen to Aqua afterwards? Or Tsukune and Moka's relationship? I hear we're getting an epilogue though, so maybe that will be addressed there.
Yes, the Busdriver said Mikogami wanted him (Tsukune) to be the next head master. I don't think Aqua was mentioned post Akasha's vanishing. No clue about Ura and Tsukune's relationship, epilogue is also my "hope" in this regard.
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Old 2014-02-11, 17:00   Link #25148
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"The memories of 'outer' Moka came back to me..." = two different personalities. The only thing Omote and Akasha had in common was the genetic material, the former basically being a clone of the latter.
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Old 2014-02-11, 17:57   Link #25149
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I thought Omote and Akasha had the same type of personality.
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Old 2014-02-11, 18:32   Link #25150
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Well, if you let Outer Moka spend few centuries , she would be lot of like Akasha.
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Old 2014-02-11, 19:17   Link #25151
Waven
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We don't know much about Akasha's personality but yes, for the sake of recognition value they might have been written to share certain traits but technically only to the degree of identical twins or clones.

Personality isn't what you're born with. It's not something in your genes. Physiological parameters such as intelligence or potential hormone output can encourage certain behavior but ultimately it's one's experiences in life that make a person.
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Old 2014-02-11, 19:49   Link #25152
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
We don't know much about Akasha's personality but yes, for the sake of recognition value they might have been written to share certain traits but technically only to the degree of identical twins or clones.

Personality isn't what you're born with. It's not something in your genes. Physiological parameters such as intelligence or potential hormone output can encourage certain behavior but ultimately it's one's experiences in life that make a person.
It is a different matter if the said clone is in fact a inserted personality meaning it has already a individual ego, morals and even emotions from the original body furthermore in some way she is manipulating or controlling Moka (outer) in some way because she is herself.
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Old 2014-02-11, 20:32   Link #25153
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Originally Posted by kazzuya13 View Post
It is a different matter if the said clone is in fact a inserted personality meaning it has already a individual ego, morals and even emotions from the original body furthermore in some way she is manipulating or controlling Moka (outer) in some way because she is herself.
It's true that Omote must have started out with some default personality and knowledge (otherwise she'd be like a baby) and this is where it kinda gets blurry as we don't have exact information. However, Omote never had memories of living with Alucard, meeting the other two dark lords sealing Alucard, having a child with another vampire or whatever other important experiences Akasha made.

I disagree with the notion of manipulation here, though. To me that means an active influence but the very moment Omote was born Akasha became dormant without any consciousness. What she left was a template of herself over which she doesn't have any power other than what she gave her to start with: A few traits and a (probably fake, unless it's Inner's) memory of having issues with going to a human-world school.
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Old 2014-02-11, 21:20   Link #25154
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...okay, now everyone's just mincing words about whether Akasha = Omote or not. I know what I will say next won't be the end-all, be-all about this topic but honestly, it's getting close to being ridiculous.

I take it that most people know the computer terms 'system image', 'system restore', 'backup', and 'partitions' are? Granted, this explanation isn't going to be able to account for everything perfectly ... but we're dealing with magic here.

What it seems Akasha did, in order to create the personality that later became Omote, was to essentially take out all her Operating System files and put it into the Rosary like it was a flash drive. When the flash drive was disconnected, the 'Omote program' ceased and Ura woke up - that makes sense, right? It also makes sense that the 'rosary' also saved data as a boot.ini and other things that the program 'learned to do' on its own. Eventually, Ura's program learned some of Omote's programming and slowly began to integrate some of those processes into her own (why she got increasingly nicer as days went on, among other things).

Now, what was 'left' of Akasha was all the 'files' that made up her system, but since the OS wasn't there, there wasn't an entire lot that could be done. Have you tried booting up a computer without an Operating System on it? Doesn't tend to work nicely, does it? Anyway, Gyokuro was able to move Akasha that device to hack the motor control functions of Alucard via Akasha's files. But then, Gyokuro hit that one sector that was hard-coded never to harm Moka and .. and everyone saw what happened. Alucard could only really control the giant body by directly interfacing with it - he had an OS, Akasha didn't so his 'drive' took priority. When the rosary interfaced directly with the giant body, Akasha's drive overrode Alucard's due to being weakened by Fuhai and the Headmaster. All the information stored on the Rosary was then made into a partition in Akasha's original memory/drive. Akasha now 'remembers' her time as Omote as if she had lived another life, which she essentially did. Her consciousness/OS still had most, if not all of the processes that it performed as Omote saved and accessible. The gap in data/time on Akasha's drive was filled in with Omote's information - this is why Akasha reacted so strongly to Tsukune.

How many times has a person who lost their memories of their life that they had before 'the accident', woken up, found a new life doing something completely different but with the same 'feeling' as before, be in such pain when their other memories come back and they discovered that they had a loved one who was married to them from before but now, they have a new lover...? Both 'versions' of that same person are still the same person - acts performed by that person are still done by that same person, even if they go by a different name. Hakuroro from UTAWARERERUMONO suffered a similar fate.

Ugh, all that talk about computers. @_@ If someone could translate what I said into normal speak, more power to you.
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Old 2014-02-11, 23:31   Link #25155
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basically, Akasha took her soul and create Omote = Akasha with no memories.
Afterwards Omote became her own self with her own memories when groing up with Ura
in the end, the soul + Omote's memory return to akasha = Akasha + omote memories.
So yes, they are the same person, just that she remember her memory as Akasha.
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Old 2014-02-11, 23:34   Link #25156
kazzuya13
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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
basically, Akasha took her soul and create Omote = Akasha with no memories.
Afterwards Omote became her own self with her own memories when groing up with Ura
in the end, the soul + Omote's memory return to akasha = Akasha + omote memories.
So yes, they are the same person, just that she remember her memory as Akasha.
And every memory and experience of Omote will go back to Akasha.
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Old 2014-02-12, 00:35   Link #25157
BIG_BOI_JARRED
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
...okay, now everyone's just mincing words about whether Akasha = Omote or not. I know what I will say next won't be the end-all, be-all about this topic but honestly, it's getting close to being ridiculous.

I take it that most people know the computer terms 'system image', 'system restore', 'backup', and 'partitions' are? Granted, this explanation isn't going to be able to account for everything perfectly ... but we're dealing with magic here.

What it seems Akasha did, in order to create the personality that later became Omote, was to essentially take out all her Operating System files and put it into the Rosary like it was a flash drive. When the flash drive was disconnected, the 'Omote program' ceased and Ura woke up - that makes sense, right? It also makes sense that the 'rosary' also saved data as a boot.ini and other things that the program 'learned to do' on its own. Eventually, Ura's program learned some of Omote's programming and slowly began to integrate some of those processes into her own (why she got increasingly nicer as days went on, among other things).

Now, what was 'left' of Akasha was all the 'files' that made up her system, but since the OS wasn't there, there wasn't an entire lot that could be done. Have you tried booting up a computer without an Operating System on it? Doesn't tend to work nicely, does it? Anyway, Gyokuro was able to move Akasha that device to hack the motor control functions of Alucard via Akasha's files. But then, Gyokuro hit that one sector that was hard-coded never to harm Moka and .. and everyone saw what happened. Alucard could only really control the giant body by directly interfacing with it - he had an OS, Akasha didn't so his 'drive' took priority. When the rosary interfaced directly with the giant body, Akasha's drive overrode Alucard's due to being weakened by Fuhai and the Headmaster. All the information stored on the Rosary was then made into a partition in Akasha's original memory/drive. Akasha now 'remembers' her time as Omote as if she had lived another life, which she essentially did. Her consciousness/OS still had most, if not all of the processes that it performed as Omote saved and accessible. The gap in data/time on Akasha's drive was filled in with Omote's information - this is why Akasha reacted so strongly to Tsukune.

How many times has a person who lost their memories of their life that they had before 'the accident', woken up, found a new life doing something completely different but with the same 'feeling' as before, be in such pain when their other memories come back and they discovered that they had a loved one who was married to them from before but now, they have a new lover...? Both 'versions' of that same person are still the same person - acts performed by that person are still done by that same person, even if they go by a different name. Hakuroro from UTAWARERERUMONO suffered a similar fate.

Ugh, all that talk about computers. @_@ If someone could translate what I said into normal speak, more power to you.
Good explanation right here.
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Old 2014-02-12, 00:41   Link #25158
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Haven't gotten to read the chapter yet (college work and whatnot), but based on what I'm hearing, this actually sounds a lot more like what happens in the Higurashi VN's

Spoiler for spoilery for Higurashi and anyone who doesn't know about the VNs:


To apply this to R+V, Akasha basically became Outer when all the memories took over, and my guess is that as Outer's memories were overwriting Akasha's is when she sacrificed herself... so it wasn't Akasha who said she loved Tsukune, but Outer

... but for me, I'm just happy that we're left with Inner, and hopefully Ikeda has the balls to give us the official couple and not pull a non-closure ending... but hell, this is a harem manga, so who am I kidding...
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Old 2014-02-12, 01:59   Link #25159
Mahou
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Omote was another self of Akasha and as Alhazard quoted, Akasha erased her own memory. Her memory as Omote return together with the Rosario to Akasha (Akasha refered to Ura-Moka the whole time as Moka with the kanji for daughter being used).
The jp. raw states "omote no" toshite no kiyoku, which as far as I know indicates more than only "Outer-Moka's memories"
Furthermore, Aqua herself confirmed that the true identity of the "Omote" who Tsukune-tachi knew, was that other self of Akasha.
Well, the jp. term for "other self" is bunshin/分身 (same as Naruto's Kagebunshin) where the first kanji can also mean a "part" and the latter with the "shin" reading means "person"
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Old 2014-02-12, 02:11   Link #25160
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I think the only harem we will get for the ending is Moka, Kurumu,Mizore,Yukari for Tsukune.
I just want Tsukune to forget Outer and have the harem, no mater what I now look at outer as Akasha not that cutie, clumsy vampire that loves to suck Tsukune's blood.
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