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Old 2009-11-15, 03:57   Link #12121
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Ged View Post
That Hokuto guy will definely play some kind of part in the end at least. As he's situation is so smilar to Tsukune's.
But wasn't Hokuto allready a hybrid? In that case his recorvery would make sense. I mean... he didn't have any kind of ''lock'' or other limitter right?
He had, in chapter 33 of Season I ( I think it was in this chapter ), Hokuto had the same "Holy lock" as Tsukune ( that's how they learned that he was also a human) ... but he took it off, and changed into what they thought after that ( the big bone thing ??, I don't know what to call that form ), he didn't lose his sanity like Tsukune and was strong ... it took the combined effort of Tsukune and Inner Moka to defeat him.

It was never explained ( after he regained his consciousness ), if Hokuto still wears his Holy Lock or not.
So it could be that the fight with Tsukune and Inner Moka has made him a "true" youkai.

I found the page for you, it's here http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...-33&page_nr=32 and here he has his "Holy Lock" off. http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...-33&page_nr=34.

Last edited by Chris38; 2009-11-15 at 04:15.
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Old 2009-11-15, 07:04   Link #12122
Ged
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How did I forget? ... Seems it's been too long since I've read the manga... gotta go and read it again xP

But when he takes it off he said: ''I was ones human too'' meaning he isn't anymore... that he is already a complited hybrid? Or maiby he need that lock to stay in human form but he did stay in his senses during that fight, so he is atleast close of being perfect hybrid?

And I guess hes bone form is trying to be some kind of bone wyrm? xP
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Old 2009-11-15, 07:37   Link #12123
Chris38
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How did I forget? ... Seems it's been too long since I've read the manga... gotta go and read it again xP

But when he takes it off he said: ''I was ones human too'' meaning he isn't anymore... that he is already a complited hybrid? Or maiby he need that lock to stay in human form but he did stay in his senses during that fight, so he is atleast close of being perfect hybrid?

And I guess hes bone form is trying to be some kind of bone wyrm? xP
Well,Hokuto's "youkai" form, might be some kind of bone wyrm ... but honestly we never have seen Kiria fight seriously in the manga yet, the only thing we know about Kiria is that he can transform his arm into a scythe ( bone scythe ), and that it is possible that he has some amount of vampire blood mixed in with some other species ( It's only a guess, but in the manga in some panels, you can see that his eyes look similar to Tsukune's or Inner Moka's vampire pupils )

As I was saying we never saw Kiria fight seriously .. so that means that we haven't seen his true potential power, or even what his youkai form looks like.

And well I wanted to bring up one other thing, do you think, that if Tsukune had a fight with Hokuto right know, would he still need Inner Moka's help to defeat him or could Tsukune defeat Hokuto without Moka's assistance ?
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Old 2009-11-15, 07:48   Link #12124
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And well I wanted to bring up one other thing, do you think, that if Tsukune had a fight with Hokuto right know, would he still need Inner Moka's help to defeat him or could Tsukune defeat Hokuto without Moka's assistance ?
Most likely, especially if he has the belmont whip with him...
Quote:
it is possible that he has some amount of vampire blood mixed in with some other species ( It's only a guess, but in the manga in some panels, you can see that his eyes look similar to Tsukune's or Inner Moka's vampire pupils )
Maybe it's just me, but I thought his eyes were supposed to be yellow/green...gotta reread S1 too!
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Old 2009-11-15, 07:50   Link #12125
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Well,Hokuto's "youkai" form, might be some kind of bone wyrm ... but honestly we never have seen Kiria fight seriously in the manga yet, the only thing we know about Kiria is that he can transform his arm into a scythe ( bone scythe ), and that it is possible that he has some amount of vampire blood mixed in with some other species ( It's only a guess, but in the manga in some panels, you can see that his eyes look similar to Tsukune's or Inner Moka's vampire pupils )

As I was saying we never saw Kiria fight seriously .. so that means that we haven't seen his true potential power, or even what his youkai form looks like.

And well I wanted to bring up one other thing, do you think, that if Tsukune had a fight with Hokuto right know, would he still need Inner Moka's help to defeat him or could Tsukune defeat Hokuto without Moka's assistance ?
About Kiria, I guess that he's gonna be the next ''big boss'' but I don't think that he's gonna be the ultimade mastermind cos...it just doesn't fit him (if you get what I mean x] ). And yes, I think so too that he has many youkai powers within him, what exactly I can't say.

And that is a interesting guestion... I mean Tsukune did stand some kind of chanse against him already back then, and he has improved a lot since then. If I had to make a guess, I'd say that it would be a kinda even fight... but I still would say that Hokuto would win in the end thanks to his unfair form and I suess he has more stamina than Tsukune as if he uses his youkai too much hell turn into that ghoul-form = he's dead, right?
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Old 2009-11-15, 07:53   Link #12126
Ged
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[QUOTE=Kafriel;2768509]Most likely, especially if he has the belmont whip with him...

.... I forgot about that whip too... With it most likely yes he would win ^^
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Old 2009-11-15, 08:10   Link #12127
Chris38
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About Kiria, I guess that he's gonna be the next ''big boss'' but I don't think that he's gonna be the ultimade mastermind cos...it just doesn't fit him (if you get what I mean x] ). And yes, I think so too that he has many youkai powers within him, what exactly I can't say.

And that is a interesting guestion... I mean Tsukune did stand some kind of chanse against him already back then, and he has improved a lot since then. If I had to make a guess, I'd say that it would be a kinda even fight... but I still would say that Hokuto would win in the end thanks to his unfair form and I suess he has more stamina than Tsukune as if he uses his youkai too much hell turn into that ghoul-form = he's dead, right?
I'm not sure about comparing Tsukune's and Hokuto's stamina, you have to take into consideration that Hokuto had a longer time to develop his youkai power's then Tsukune, who despite that has gone to his limit ( or maybe over it ). Look closly at this:

http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...-33&page_nr=44

and the next page:

http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...-33&page_nr=45

See, despite being seemingly weaker then Hokuto, Tsukune is still able to stop him, doesn't turn into a Ghoul, and after that is still able to assist in sealing again the Grand Barrier.

Of course they wouldn't succeed if Hokuto didn't have a change of heart, but still Tsukune had much less time for his body to adjust to the vampire blood then Hokuto, but was still able to keep up with him.

It could be that Tsukune's vampire blood is much more potent ( stronger ), then Hokuto's monster blood, but wouldn't that mean that, it's more difficult for Tsukune to control the power of Moka's vampire blood , then for Hokuto to control the power of Kiria's monster blood ?
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Old 2009-11-15, 09:49   Link #12128
Tempest35
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Vampires have the most power and since that is a given, they also have the most potent blood. Tsukune's 50% is much higher than a normal youkai's 50%
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Old 2009-11-15, 11:41   Link #12129
Chris38
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Vampires have the most power and since that is a given, they also have the most potent blood. Tsukune's 50% is much higher than a normal youkai's 50%
Well, what I meant Tempest is that due to potency of the blood, it could be harder for a human, injected with that blood to control it.

Of course I don't have proof of that, but it just came to me while discussing the difference between Tsukune and Hokuto,

so what I mean is that Tsukune could have had a harder time fighting Hokuto, then we think. And yet in that fight he could keep his sanity even if he went to his limit
( he was dangerously close to turning into a Ghoul ), and so it could mean either that there is something mysterious in Tsukune, that helps him control the vampire blood or simply his will ( or whatever you use to control Youkai power ) is stronger then Hokuto's.
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Old 2009-11-15, 13:44   Link #12130
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Fangs and eyes change

2 times Ghoul Arc and Dopple arc. There are other few instances where in he's still human and Moka bites him he grows fangs for joke purposes.

agh...to lazy to post the images from s1 manga and season 2

THE REAL QUESTION here is why does Moka still sips Tsukunes blood? He's still human and I think Moka knows how to sip human blood and not her own vamp blood.
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Old 2009-11-15, 14:04   Link #12131
Chris38
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Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
Fangs and eyes change

2 times Ghoul Arc and Dopple arc. There are other few instances where in he's still human and Moka bites him he grows fangs for joke purposes.

agh...to lazy to post the images from s1 manga and season 2

THE REAL QUESTION here is why does Moka still sips Tsukunes blood? He's still human and I think Moka knows how to sip human blood and not her own vamp blood.
Kenji - (can I call you that way ?), well maybe if Tsukune's vampire blood is sleeping, his blood is pretty much human, with a small amount of vampire blood.
That of course explains why his blood tastes different .

When he release's his youkai more, the vampire blood is starting to be produced in high amount's pushing back his human blood ( and giving him more power ), but if the vampire blood reaches a point, where very little of Tsukune's human blood is being produced, he starts turning into a Ghoul .

Well sounds possible, right ? Because I don't remember if it was told in the manga, that he hasn't got human blood in his body anymore.

So Tsukune could, still have human blood ( with a bit different taste ) inside his body, and that is what Outer Moka sucks from him.
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Old 2009-11-15, 14:43   Link #12132
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I wonder if we'll get any more shots of Moka injecting more blood into Tsukune, looking at Hokuto as an example Kiria injected additional blood into him whenever he got the opportunity it seemed. The example shown when Hokuto was recovering in the hospital.

I am curious though as to whether or not Tsukune's body is beginning to produce its own 'vampire blood'. We know that physiological changes are occurring that are turning Tsukune into a Youkai, and it has been suggested that the holy lock's purposes go beyond sealing to helping a human make the transformation to Youkai. Would this also entail that Tsukune's adapted body is also making youkai blood with the Holy lock essentially sealing the power in said blood? Or is it more likely that his body is still producing human blood, which Moka in turn drinks?
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Old 2009-11-15, 15:06   Link #12133
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I wonder if we'll get any more shots of Moka injecting more blood into Tsukune, looking at Hokuto as an example Kiria injected additional blood into him whenever he got the opportunity it seemed. The example shown when Hokuto was recovering in the hospital.

I am curious though as to whether or not Tsukune's body is beginning to produce its own 'vampire blood'. We know that physiological changes are occurring that are turning Tsukune into a Youkai, and it has been suggested that the holy lock's purposes go beyond sealing to helping a human make the transformation to Youkai. Would this also entail that Tsukune's adapted body is also making youkai blood with the Holy lock essentially sealing the power in said blood? Or is it more likely that his body is still producing human blood, which Moka in turn drinks?
I don't know if Moka is going to inject more of her blood into Tsukune, but it's probably not going to happen. You have to remember that Hokuto and Tsukune even if there where "human" before they got injected with monster blood, Hokuto didn't loose his sanity when his "holy lock" was taken off, while if Tsukune had taken off his "holy lock", he would definitely lose his mind.

We,also don't know what happens when a human who has already a dormant monster blood inside him, is injected with more blood of the same kind.

And also vampire blood is very potent ( It's an a S class youkai after all ), if I'm not mistaken, it took about 4-5 injections of Moka's vampire blood into Tsukune to make it permanent, so if Moka injects him with more of her blood, I think either he will die or turn into a ghoul - both of which are bad, right ?
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Old 2009-11-15, 15:57   Link #12134
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^ That is correct, you can think of Moka's blood as poison to Tsukune's system, it practically kills him while giving him more power. Either because Moka is a super vampire or injected him one too many times, Tsukune's condition turned out a lot more serious than Hokuto's, but does that imply that Kiria's weaker than Moka?
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Old 2009-11-15, 16:22   Link #12135
Chris38
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^ That is correct, you can think of Moka's blood as poison to Tsukune's system, it practically kills him while giving him more power. Either because Moka is a super vampire or injected him one too many times, Tsukune's condition turned out a lot more serious than Hokuto's, but does that imply that Kiria's weaker than Moka?
Honestly, we don't know, because the only time Inner Moka and Kiria had a fight between each other, she defeated him in one kick - but Hokuto was much harder for Inner Moka to defeat ( if Tsukune didn't stop Hokuto, she would be the one who was defeated ), and Hokuto has Kiria's monster blood in his veins.

So it's a difficult question to ask right know Kafriel, well I think we don't have enough information to answer it right now, but speculating, I think his power level is close to Inner Moka - if he wasn't taken by surprise with Outer Moka breaking the rosario, that battle could have taken a longer time, and Tsukune probably wouldn't be stopped in time. I mean Hokuto must have known how strong Moka is in her vampire form, so if Kiria wasn't strong enough to take on Inner Moka he wouldn't be the one guarding Outer Moka ( Kiria knew what the rosario is so ... )
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Old 2009-11-15, 17:00   Link #12136
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Moka already mentioned that Tsukune's blood no longer tastes the same, that it's different. she still does it because it still tastes good regardless. We know that vampires in R+V don't drink blood to survive but rather as a habit/instinct.
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Old 2009-11-15, 18:13   Link #12137
Chris38
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Moka already mentioned that Tsukune's blood no longer tastes the same, that it's different. I still does it because it still tastes good regardless. We know that vampires in R+V don't drink blood to survive but rather as a habit/instinct.
Maybe that's why Tsukune no longer desires Moka's blood, because he doesn't have such an instinct ( he countered the instinct he had in Season I with willpower) or habit.
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Old 2009-11-15, 23:09   Link #12138
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Maybe that's why Tsukune no longer desires Moka's blood, because he doesn't have such an instinct ( he countered the instinct he had in Season I with willpower) or habit.
He still wants it. It's mentioned in an omake but I don't know if that would count as canon.

In one of the chapters of S1 after the Ghoul arc, he pretty much made a promise to himself not to take Moka's blood because he doesn't wanna hurt her.

I have a feeling he'll end up taking her blood at least once later on.
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Old 2009-11-15, 23:18   Link #12139
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Hmm, pretty much, but in one of the omake's has him staring at Moka going"I wanna drink blood, but I think it's wrong," or something like that. But it seems that after the time season 1 ended to the time season 2 started, he managed to get a hold on that hunger much better.

Probably because when his body was allowed to recover, his natural blood takes over for his not feeding like a vampire, so you could say that his human blood is sating his vampire blood's hunger, at least more steadily these days.

He's probably slowly adapting and balancing his 2 bloods to a point where he'd be a self sufficient partial vampire, with no need or desire to feed unlike normal vampires. but for him, it's at a slight cost of power to not have vampire weaknesses.
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Old 2009-11-16, 04:52   Link #12140
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He still wants it. It's mentioned in an omake but I don't know if that would count as canon.

In one of the chapters of S1 after the Ghoul arc, he pretty much made a promise to himself not to take Moka's blood because he doesn't wanna hurt her.

I have a feeling he'll end up taking her blood at least once later on.
Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to know where this Omake could be found?

As for drinking blood though, wasn't Moka shown to be anemic at the beginning of the manga? So isn't drinking blood somewhat required for a Vampire in this series?

It seems that Tsukune is getting most of the strength of Vampires (Superhuman strength, regeneration, Superhuman senses) without the weaknesses (Water, requiring blood) of course, it seems to be hinted at that the three great lords specifically set up the scenario which produced Tsukune.
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