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Old 2009-11-22, 20:56   Link #12281
GrrDraxin
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Spoiler for Kyero:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38
And about Wong being a permanent character ... I don't know, but isn't Fang Fang studying at youkai academy ... then again some character's are studying at Youkai academy and aren't permanent characters ... well Gin anyone ... I mean what do you mean by a permanent character. Could you give me a definition ?
I think what is meant by that is a character who shows up rather often, Gin being one of those, but it could also be applied to those that don't go for the one-time appearances or those far and few between cameos. Aside from the main cast, there are several others that qualify, like the bus driver and the headmaster. Though Ishigami probably did qualify in the first season since she reappeared later on, but Kuyou probably doesn't anymore since he hasn't shown his face at all since his defeat. So he lost that status as of the start of season 2, even though he had a single panel cameo at the end in chapter 40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38
And Tempest, I also don't think that vampire's in this series are living dead - first of all, they grow ... and can have babies, and about Tsukune's weakness it's explained here:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/rosari...6/c023/22.html

It's because his body was a human body originally, before he was injected with vampire blood.

By the way, was it explained from where vampire weaknesses came from( in the manga ) ?
No, that hasn't been explained in great detail, I'm sorry to say. But, there are several theories floating around about the reasons.

Personally I believe the reason water affects them like it does, is if you imagine their youki as if it was like fire around their bodies, basically the water douses that "flame" and thus weakens them greatly.

With holy items and crosses I think it's a similar effect, but instead of dousing their aura, it simply stifles it and forces it into a low power smoldering state. then once released, it causes an explosion(as we've seen) in power with what has been built up under the seal. these seem to be the best way I can think of to explain them.

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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
I'm still hoping for some more development story-wise so that the yuri can get scarce, but I can take it...

While I can't possibly assess one's mood by their taste, I'll agree that it's not yuri per se, and I wouldn't mind a fun chapter of experimentation in R+V.
Well, at least someone has a good sense of tolerance. I'll agree that experimentation is good for many things, it works wonders keeping a story from completely stagnating. But experimentation with the right things and subjects are the key to success of this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel
About vampires being dead: I believe that they never died and gained a cursed immortality, thus being undead, while zombies and ghosts have already died once and transcended death, putting them in a totally different position.
Yeah, I don't think vampires are of the dead variety either, it wouldn't make sense to have to reproduce and grow up like everyone else does, since being alive is required for that.

Though Wong's family is an interesting case, because we're not even sure if he's dead or not, but we know his sister is. The Yasha seem to be quite contradictory to most of how things have been up till now.
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Old 2009-11-22, 21:05   Link #12282
Kyero Fox
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Thats why I asked if it was a joke or not, because I only hate it when someone calls someone something for something they don't do that they think is the best. call me Gay for not liking girl on girl action and we got a problem
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Old 2009-11-22, 21:56   Link #12283
GrrDraxin
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Spoiler for Kyero:


For topic sake: Saizo is a good example of one of those kinds of people. I'll let you decide which side of the fence he and his group of delinquents were on for that.
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Old 2009-11-22, 23:47   Link #12284
Magin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post
Gees, doesn't everyone say to never take the internet seriously?
Wrong! The internet is Serious Business! [/doesn't have the demotivator]

btw, Ranma is just madness. It sometimes hurts my head

Although... for some strange reason, I'm only affected by yuri in anime/games. I have no problem with it in RL...


anyways, someone else take us back on topic
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Old 2009-11-23, 00:12   Link #12285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post

While I can't possibly assess one's mood by their taste, I'll agree that it's not yuri per se, and I wouldn't mind a fun chapter of experimentation in R+V.
About vampires being dead: I believe that they never died and gained a cursed immortality, thus being undead, while zombies and ghosts have already died once and transcended death, putting them in a totally different position.

Not as far as I remember...but I've played my blood omens and soul reavers and read vampire stuff over and over, so it's commonly one of the usual stuff: death by sunlight, acidic waters, stabbed hearts, poisoned blood, etc.
Well if vampires never died and gained a cursed immortality - as you say Kafriel, and that is making them undead, then do you think that Tsukune ( who has vampire blood in his veins ) also gained the curse of immortality ,thus making Tsukune also undead or his still half undead ( he has got some part of the curse of a vampire, meaning he hasn't gained a "full" cursed immortality - so probably if Tsukue is half - undead he lives longer then a normal human, but not as long as Moka ).

What do you think about that ?
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Old 2009-11-23, 00:41   Link #12286
HayashiTakara
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er.. vampire's aren't undead in this series... I thought it was obvious already. You have to be a risen dead to be considered Undead.
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Old 2009-11-23, 01:08   Link #12287
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post
The thought did cross my mind, but being that I know better, I decided against it. I can't really find any justification for calling anyone gay, even if they truly deserve it. Intolerant fools on the other hand are fair game, and deserve every beat down they get if they go flying off the handle every chance they get. DO NOT PLACE YOURSELF AMONG THAT GROUP... Your life, virtual or not, will be made a living hell by people who enjoy hurting people that can't hold their tempers in check.

For topic sake: Saizo is a good example of one of those kinds of people. I'll let you decide which side of the fence he and his group of delinquents were on for that.
So you're saying you thought for a second that I was gay because I don't like yuri? thats immature


and on topic, Doesnt Undead mean not really dead yet?
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Old 2009-11-23, 02:31   Link #12288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
So you're saying you thought for a second that I was gay because I don't like yuri? thats immature


and on topic, Doesnt Undead mean not really dead yet?
I think that's the definition ... in other words a person who should be dead but is still alive ... living dead, but I don't know if we can apply this term here ( for the vampires ) ... because if I'm not wrong a undead has a body that should be dead - so in other words, all the life process a living human has ( giving birth,growth, breathing ... itd. ) or stopped once you become undead ( based on the definition I know ). So as someone pointed out the term undead is technically wrong to apply to RV vampires.

Unless someone has a another definition for the term "undead" we have a contradiction between the definition and what the manga shows.
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Old 2009-11-23, 05:38   Link #12289
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Spoiler for Kyero - opening may risk your sanity:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
and on topic, Doesnt Undead mean not really dead yet?
Wikipedia has some info on this. But my personal definition is "resurrection without resuming normal bodily functions". But it seems it also applies to ghosts as well as other paranormal post-living entities.
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Old 2009-11-23, 05:53   Link #12290
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post

Wikipedia has some info on this. But my personal definition is "resurrection without resuming normal bodily functions". But it seems it also applies to ghosts as well as other paranormal post-living entities.
If we use the term you provided GrrDraxin, then as I have said in my previous post, it is not a adequate term to apply to RV vampires.

Anyway let's bring this discussion a bit closer to the manga shall we ?

It was mentioned before by someone that Tsukune should fight with Kiria before his fight with Miyabi. So who do you think is stronger Kiria or Miyabi ... we know that they are both in Fairy Tale and apparently have known each other for some time.

So let's discuss, who is stronger between Kiria and Miyabi ... both haven't shown there real strength ... but we have some information about them.

So what do you think ...

Last edited by Chris38; 2009-11-23 at 06:38.
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Old 2009-11-23, 06:19   Link #12291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
If we use the term you provided GrrDraxin, then as I have said in my previous post, it is not a adequate term to apply to RV vampires.

Anyway let's bring this discussion a bit closer to the manga shall we ?

It was mentioned before by someone that Tsukune should fight with Kiria before his fight with Miyabi. So who do you think is stronger Kiria or Miyabi ... we know that they are both in Fairy Tale and apparently have known each other for some time.

So let's discuss, who is stronger between Kiria and Miyabi ... both haven't shown there real strength ... but we have some information about them.

So what do you think ...
That would be I who mentioned that. And I think Miyabe COULD be stronger given that he was able to stop Kahlua's attack without losing his arm. But to tell the truth, Kiria was at a disadvantage against Moka anyway, so he didn't stand a chance of winning. But then again, a Kiria VS Miyabi fight would be kind of interesting too.
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Old 2009-11-23, 06:35   Link #12292
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Originally Posted by KoSa333 View Post
Are you sure? I mean probably he will, do not forget Moka's blood (basicly her DNA) flowing in Tsukune's veins
Ok it was a joke haha..
I loled.

Needs more pictures.
Spoiler for tidy:
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Old 2009-11-23, 07:23   Link #12293
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post
That would be I who mentioned that. And I think Miyabe COULD be stronger given that he was able to stop Kahlua's attack without losing his arm. But to tell the truth, Kiria was at a disadvantage against Moka anyway, so he didn't stand a chance of winning. But then again, a Kiria VS Miyabi fight would be kind of interesting too.

Can I ask a favor of you now? If you would please edit your post to not include the frivolous discussion between me and Kyero from the quote text, for his sake, and the sake of all the rest of these nice people who don't want to get involved, if you will please.

.
I did as you asked GrrDraxin, back to the discussion. Well I would also like to see a fight between Kiria & Miyabi. Now onto the strength of the two mentioned ... certainly it seems that Miyabi is stronger then Kiria. As you said GrrDraxin he stoped Khaula's attack barehanded. ( Something which Inner Moka was unable to do. But what about Hokuto, he has Kiria's blood hasn't he, and he fared quite well against Moka too ( If Tsukune hadn't intervened she could have died in her fight against Hokuto). Of course if it isn't true that humans injected with monster blood could get stronger then the monster who injected them with the mentioned blood. So right know Miyabi seems stronger then Kiria, but the way I see it Kiria isn't far behind him. Well if we expand the discussed problem and add Tsukune then things get complicated ... ( I think someone else mentioned before that a fight between Miyabi and Tsukune is imminent ... so if discuss the two of his potential competitors, let's add the other side will we.)

I think it's rational to add Tsukune to the discussion, if he is going to fight with one of the guys mentioned before ( Kiria, Miyabi ) ... and right now we also don't know much about Tsukune's strength, right ( we know that he is stronger, the fight against the Siren in the Sun arc proved that, but we don't know where he currently stands )

Well ... if you ask me then I don't know who will win, but it sounds to be a interesting fight. What I mean is : Tsuikune VS ( Kiria or Miyabi ) or ( probably not possible ) Tsukune VS Kiria VS Miyabi ( a three-way fight, if you catch my drift )
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Old 2009-11-23, 07:47   Link #12294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Well if vampires never died and gained a cursed immortality - as you say Kafriel, and that is making them undead, then do you think that Tsukune ( who has vampire blood in his veins ) also gained the curse of immortality ,thus making Tsukune also undead or his still half undead ( he has got some part of the curse of a vampire, meaning he hasn't gained a "full" cursed immortality - so probably if Tsukune is half - undead he lives longer then a normal human, but not as long as Moka ).

What do you think about that ?
In Tsukune's case, I think he is both dead and normal, depending on his state (i.e. which blood type is dominant at a given time), so when he uses his vampire blood he gains all of their traits, weaknesses included, and when it's dormant inside him, he is a normal human once again. A very peculiar case of aging, I'd say he gets to live a lot but not indefinitely.
Quote:
er.. vampire's aren't undead in this series... I thought it was obvious already. You have to be a risen dead to be considered Undead.
Quote:
Doesnt Undead mean not really dead yet?
I separate undead into two categories, those who have yet to die and cannot die of age, and those who died once and were brought back to life without being affected by time OR injuries. The first category can still die of physical wounds, the second can die through exorcism, etc.
I'd place vampires in the first and zombies in the second, for now Wong is a normal summoner who can die, be raised by his family and enter the second category too, although he may already be undead, the manga hasn't had time to be clear about it.
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Old 2009-11-23, 08:11   Link #12295
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Spoiler for for GrrDraxin:
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Old 2009-11-23, 08:12   Link #12296
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
In Tsukune's case, I think he is both dead and normal, depending on his state (i.e. which blood type is dominant at a given time), so when he uses his vampire blood he gains all of their traits, weaknesses included, and when it's dormant inside him, he is a normal human once again. A very peculiar case of aging, I'd say he gets to live a lot but not indefinitely.


I separate undead into two categories, those who have yet to die and cannot die of age, and those who died once and were brought back to life without being affected by time OR injuries. The first category can still die of physical wounds, the second can die through exorcism, etc.
I'd place vampires in the first and zombies in the second, for now Wong is a normal summoner who can die, be raised by his family and enter the second category too, although he may already be undead, the manga hasn't had time to be clear about it.
Well, I don't want to ignore you're opinion, because I mostly agree with you're theory regarding Tsukune, what we have different feelings about are details, one part that i disagree with is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
... weaknesses included, and when it's dormant inside him, he is a normal human once again.
line

First you said that Tsukune gains all of the weaknesses of a vampire, haven't the manga shown differently ... I mean here:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/rosari...06/c023/3.html

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/rosari...06/c023/4.html

The second thing you mentioned is that he is like a "normal" human. Again there is contradiction with the manga. I mean for example this:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/rosari...7/c027/24.html

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/rosari...9/c036/29.html

Besides the point's mentioned above I agree with you Kafriel on you're theory regarding Tsukune.
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Old 2009-11-23, 08:15   Link #12297
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Tsukune only has one weakness from Vampires, and I belive thats Rosario/crosses (like when the headmaster used it to seal his vampire blood)
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Old 2009-11-23, 08:17   Link #12298
GrrDraxin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
I separate undead into two categories, those who have yet to die and cannot die of age, and those who died once and were brought back to life without being affected by time OR injuries. The first category can still die of physical wounds, the second can die through exorcism, etc.
I'd place vampires in the first and zombies in the second, for now Wong is a normal summoner who can die, be raised by his family and enter the second category too, although he may already be undead, the manga hasn't had time to be clear about it.
Then by that definition, any ol' immortal qualifies as being undead. Take Highlander for example, would you call them undead too? I think there should be a distinction between being undead by those definitions and immortal. The second definition you gave makes some sense as ones body is still subject to decay and may eventually rot away completely. However spirits are a different matter, I can't really find an appropriate category for them. If they don't have a body, and can't touch the physical world, then they're just apparitions, but stiil considered undead depending on where they came from and how they came to be.

and there isn't enough info on Wong to make any assumptions on that. Just because his sister says she's dead, doesn't mean that she is, she's just either IS or became a youkai that can dismember herself at will. Personally, if R+V became an RPG game similar to Palladium Books Rifts and the like (or Dungeons and Dragons for you old school people), then I think we could gain lots of insight to how that all works.
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Old 2009-11-23, 08:20   Link #12299
Kyero Fox
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its all make belive anyways. Its not like theres a Solid definition. so why don't we move on to another fuckin subject? instead of "no I'm right you're wrong" crap.

instead lets talk about who loves Tsukune the most? who is more willing to give their life for him.. all of them?

Spoiler for NWS info:
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Old 2009-11-23, 09:33   Link #12300
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Well a bit earlier I started a discussion on who is stronger between Kiria & Miyabi ( later I added Tsukune, because someone on this forum said that a fight wiyh Tsukune and Miyabi is imminent. So if you think that's more interesting .... anyway on aside note, if I'm not mistaken there is a bit more then a week till a new chapter.
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