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Old 2010-01-06, 14:04   Link #12781
HayashiTakara
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Then we have a problem since I think in the same chapter, it was stated by Inner Moka that she will never allow polygamy ( a harem ), and even Tsukune wasn't fond of keeping the rest of the girls in this way. At least that's how I interpreted that chapter ( chapter 23, Season II ).

I know that the girls from Tsukune's harem has become important "friends" to him, but if the author was aiming to go for a harem ending why hasn't he shown that Tsukune has started to develop some romantic feelings for the other girls.

And I also know that to the girls, Tsukune means a lot, it's just that so far I don't think that there was a mention about how Tsukune feels about the other girls besides Moka, well apart from this:

1.) When Tsukune has shown some sort of "romantic" fellings to another girl then Moka and that was Kurumu, but we don't know if it came from Tsukune or was just a "effect" of Kurmu's charm, which Tsukune was controlled by, at that time.

2.) Another moment was during Ruby's training session with Tsukune, where he almost kissed Ruby.

Apart from that we saw nothing about how Tsukune views the other girls, besides Moka. But, unfortunately Tsukune still's want's to be close to them, so it might be true that Tsukune started to develop some fellings for the other girls too, but I just don't see the manga showing signs of that. While in the case of Tsukune X Moka we see plenty of development that they are in love with each other.

On an other hand as you said HayashiTakara Tsukune seems troubled that he's going to get separated from the girls, but like I pointed out above it doesn't seem that Tsukune has any romantic feelings for the girls and I don't think that he is a kind of guy that will want to get together with a girl without feelings involved, he hasn't displayed such tendencies, he's not like Gin and that's probably one of the reasons why the girls around Tsukune have fallen so hard in love with him. So unlike you HayashiTakara I don't think that a harem ending will work, sure it will work on the end of the girls, but I don't think that the Tsukune we know so far, will be happy in that situation and I think the mangaka has even suggested it with the dream Tsukune has at the start of chapter 23, ( Season II ) after he wakes up, Tsukune blames himself for having a dream like that, so if he has this reaction after having a dream like that, how do you think he is going to be, if a harem end will occur. I think that he's going to hate himself for the rest of his life.

So, that's why I don't think a harem end will solve anything, but like you said HayashiTakara the other girls might not be satisfied with staying "only" friends with Tsukune ... well I don't have an answer to that question right now, but as I have said before I just wanted to point out that unless Tsukune starts to show signs of falling for the other girls besides Moka ( which I haven't seen ) I don't see a harem end happening and if it does, I think it won't be a solution to the problem we have been shown.
Tsukune has a "more than friends" feeling for the other girls, it's one of the reasons why he's indecisive at the moment. He doesn't want to choose, he wants all of them. But as he well know, reality isn't that kind.

Moka is just being selfish. At the end of the day, I would think she'd rather share Tsukune than not have Tsukune at all.
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Old 2010-01-06, 14:40   Link #12782
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Tsukune has a "more than friends" feeling for the other girls, it's one of the reasons why he's indecisive at the moment. He doesn't want to choose, he wants all of them. But as he well know, reality isn't that kind.

Moka is just being selfish. At the end of the day, I would think she'd rather share Tsukune than not have Tsukune at all.
Well, then I'm sorry I don't get the felling that Tsukune has a "more then friends" felling for the other girls. And about Moka being selfish, well if I'm not right it's thanks to her that Tsukune is still alive, and about "sharing" we only had one chapter about it so far, I think it's still not enough to say about what Tsukune's "real" feelings are.

Of course, it could be that he was troubled by his feelings, but I kind of got the impression that he was more troubled by the prospect of getting separated with the rest of the girls, not that he "wants a harem , but knows it's realistically impossible to have it. " I mean why he would hate himself if he wanted a harem with the girls ... and why would Tsukune deny that he want's a harem with the girls to Wong if he had this desire.

Don't get me wrong HayashiTakara it's not that I have anything against the harem end, it's just that, for me it would mean ignoring a lot of character build up in Tsukune. I just kind of see, that it would be out of character for him. Of course I could be mistaken, but that's how I read it and I can't do anything about it ...

... sigh ... maybe we should just find another thing to discuss, because even when you HayashiTakara say that the reason why Tsukune is so indecisive right is because, he want's to get together with all of his harem. I don't see the evidence you provide as you do ... if that .... makes sense, so maybe we should end this topic before it kind of get's ... pointless ....
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Old 2010-01-06, 14:50   Link #12783
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At this point I doubt that R+V is gonna end with a harem ending. Even Ikeda has hinted that there would be no harem ending. He goes as far as calling a harem a naive pipe dream.

More than likely it's gonna end how Shuffle! ended. It'll be Tsukune x Moka at the end with the girls staying as their friends but waiting for the chance that Tsukune and Moka might break up.
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Old 2010-01-06, 17:26   Link #12784
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Old 2010-01-06, 18:01   Link #12785
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Well, then I'm sorry I don't get the felling that Tsukune has a "more then friends" felling for the other girls. And about Moka being selfish, well if I'm not right it's thanks to her that Tsukune is still alive, and about "sharing" we only had one chapter about it so far, I think it's still not enough to say about what Tsukune's "real" feelings are.

Of course, it could be that he was troubled by his feelings, but I kind of got the impression that he was more troubled by the prospect of getting separated with the rest of the girls, not that he "wants a harem , but knows it's realistically impossible to have it. " I mean why he would hate himself if he wanted a harem with the girls ... and why would Tsukune deny that he want's a harem with the girls to Wong if he had this desire.

Don't get me wrong HayashiTakara it's not that I have anything against the harem end, it's just that, for me it would mean ignoring a lot of character build up in Tsukune. I just kind of see, that it would be out of character for him. Of course I could be mistaken, but that's how I read it and I can't do anything about it ...

... sigh ... maybe we should just find another thing to discuss, because even when you HayashiTakara say that the reason why Tsukune is so indecisive right is because, he want's to get together with all of his harem. I don't see the evidence you provide as you do ... if that .... makes sense, so maybe we should end this topic before it kind of get's ... pointless ....
How about most recently? When Wong (Yukari) said that Tsukune wouldn't be interested in Yukari because she was still small and childish in appearance. And Tsukune gets pissed off. Tsukune has already shown multiple times how much the girls all mean to him.

And I don't know if you're reading my words correctly but I did say "ONE OF THE REASONS" I didn't say "THE REASON" big difference in meaning.

And there wasn't only one chapter that a choice had to be made. Ch.40 in S1 was brought up too. Moka told Tsukune that he eventually had to make a choice.

The beginning of Ch.23 is a very telling chapter as well. We have Tsukune's dream. It starts with him making a promise to be with Moka forever, then a sudden realization he's done the exact same thing to Kurumu and Mizore as well.

What's a man to do? Break all his other promises and uphold one? That's his predicament.

Things aren't always simple, like for instance Mizore has a biological clock, unless she's willing to go steral in a couple of years she needs a mate soon. And we all know what happened the last time another man tried to take her away

And Kurumu, really she's the most intensely in love with Tsukune than any of the others. Ikeda has portrait'd her to be so, she is driven by love stronger than any of the others. She'll probably end up the most emotionally scarred and probably end up behaving like a normal succubus rather than a love struck one in the future... Do Not Want a "town bicycle" Kurumu.
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Old 2010-01-06, 20:46   Link #12786
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Nah, Kurumu wouldn't do that...well, I'd like her NOT to do that. She's a really sweet girl, no doubt about it - we all like her. If she did go that route it would be a very sad story....*glances over in RadiantBeam's direction*
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Old 2010-01-06, 21:02   Link #12787
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I was thinking about that as well. I mean, if Tsukune wanted to "do" any of them, all he has to do is ask, and Kurumu, Ruby, Mizore and Yukari would all willingly give themselves to him in "that" way. Where as Moka isn't that willing to just throw herself at him like the others do, and I think that Tsukune admires that in her, as he sees that as exactly what he's been doing since the very beginning. So if one thinks of things like a kind of war, Tsukune has been laying siege to Moka for quite some time, and she still hasn't put up the "I Surrender Flag" yet, where all the others did that not long after they met him, except for Ruby, but her way of doing that was a bit odd, as we all know.

So we could say that he's trying for the hardest one to topple in this little romance war, and so far Moka has remained strong up until recently. But with these new developments, we might actually see her finally crack and fly the white flag for him. Which may prove that even nice guys get the girl they want if they have lots of patience and integrity to wade through the "harem", without engaging them, in order to get the one they really want.

They say that "the hardest fought battles have the greatest rewards come from them," and this may play true for Tsukune in the end with Moka. But we will see when it finally comes.
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Old 2010-01-06, 21:07   Link #12788
HayashiTakara
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Outer Moka has already been won over, Inner is just being Tsun tsun
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Old 2010-01-06, 21:17   Link #12789
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But both have to accept him equally in order for it to count.
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Old 2010-01-06, 21:42   Link #12790
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Quote:
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I was thinking about that as well. I mean, if Tsukune wanted to "do" any of them, all he has to do is ask, and Kurumu, Ruby, Mizore and Yukari would all willingly give themselves to him in "that" way. Where as Moka isn't that willing to just throw herself at him like the others do, and I think that Tsukune admires that in her, as he sees that as exactly what he's been doing since the very beginning. So if one thinks of things like a kind of war, Tsukune has been laying siege to Moka for quite some time, and she still hasn't put up the "I Surrender Flag" yet, where all the others did that not long after they met him, except for Ruby, but her way of doing that was a bit odd, as we all know.

So we could say that he's trying for the hardest one to topple in this little romance war, and so far Moka has remained strong up until recently. But with these new developments, we might actually see her finally crack and fly the white flag for him. Which may prove that even nice guys get the girl they want if they have lots of patience and integrity to wade through the "harem", without engaging them, in order to get the one they really want.

They say that "the hardest fought battles have the greatest rewards come from them," and this may play true for Tsukune in the end with Moka. But we will see when it finally comes.
Honestly, that makes the other girls seem like booby prizes if you say it that way. Plus, that train of thought just sounds really screwed up. "If its not hard to get, its not worth it?" Nah, I can't swallow that. And for the "nice guys can get the girl they want" I don't think he's got much to prove. He's gotten quite a few of girls who are looked upon with envy and admired. If he had anything to prove, he's already done it. Moka would pretty much amount to a trophy wife if we follow this logic.
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Old 2010-01-06, 22:13   Link #12791
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Any of them would be a trophy wife, but it's just too easy to get the others is why he's holding off.

He cares for their happiness, yes, but doesn't believe that "he" is the only path they can take for it. Where as they believe that he IS their only way to happiness, and will try and acquire him at all costs, and for him, he knows that he could be happy with any of them, but he's just choosing the hard road of Moka to get to his destination.
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Old 2010-01-06, 22:34   Link #12792
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Any of them would be a trophy wife, but it's just too easy to get the others is why he's holding off.

He cares for their happiness, yes, but doesn't believe that "he" is the only path they can take for it. Where as they believe that he IS their only way to happiness, and will try and acquire him at all costs, and for him, he knows that he could be happy with any of them, but he's just choosing the hard road of Moka to get to his destination.
Well he that's just an assumption. He hasn't made up his mind about anything. And he seems rather possessive of the girls.

What we need is an actual rival. Gin was a potential but that flew out the window when Sun came about.
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Old 2010-01-06, 23:27   Link #12793
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Well he that's just an assumption. He hasn't made up his mind about anything. And he seems rather possessive of the girls.

What we need is an actual rival. Gin was a potential but that flew out the window when Sun came about.
A rival really would heat things up. Has Tsukune had any real challenge to his harem at all? All I could remember was that fake vampire targeting Moka, but that was a while ago and was short lived.
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Old 2010-01-06, 23:51   Link #12794
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The girls fighting amongst themselves heats things up enough for me. I'd rather see more action thrown into the mix instead...
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Old 2010-01-07, 13:47   Link #12795
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I hope they bring back Miyabi then. He's the closest to being Tsukune's rival that we got. If he ever goes after Moka - trying to possess her - it might be close if he plays the mob card enough.

If he fights and beats Tsukune, keeps Inner at bay and tell her that if to save Tsukune, she'll have to come with him. She leaves, in order to protect his life...aaaand then the Wong family offer their services to combine with Tsukune (and harem) to take down Fairy Tail.
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Old 2010-01-07, 14:06   Link #12796
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I hope they bring back Miyabi then. He's the closest to being Tsukune's rival that we got. If he ever goes after Moka - trying to possess her - it might be close if he plays the mob card enough.

If he fights and beats Tsukune, keeps Inner at bay and tell her that if to save Tsukune, she'll have to come with him. She leaves, in order to protect his life...aaaand then the Wong family offer their services to combine with Tsukune (and harem) to take down Fairy Tail.
Well, the question is what kind of Youkai Miyabi is, i he is also a vampire ( like someone, including me suspect ) then I think that he should be able to overpower Tsukune since Miyabi would have a full control over his youkai abilities, while Tsukune's level is pretty much an unknown at this point. And what are the chances of Inner not joining the fight and together with Tsukune beating Miyabi.

Unless the seal is still restraining her power, I see no reason why she wouldn't join the battle, especially since Miyabi could also be a vampire.

But, I agree that a rival for Tsukune is something that would bring much more depth to the story.

Well, another thing that came to me, what would happen if Tsukune's seal has broken during this ( described above ) fight, could it change the outcome ?
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Old 2010-01-07, 16:57   Link #12797
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I only gave that one possible instance because Miyabi seems to be a mobster of some kind. He could get the drop on Tsukune and force him into a precarious position, something where Moka will not attack for fear of endangering Tsukune's life.
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Old 2010-01-07, 17:25   Link #12798
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If he fights and beats Tsukune, keeps Inner at bay and tell her that if to save Tsukune, she'll have to come with him. She leaves, in order to protect his life...aaaand then the Wong family offer their services to combine with Tsukune (and harem) to take down Fairy Tail.
Too cliché, I don't want to read another manga with something like it. Such plot was main reason why I dropped FMP... Besides Moka (Inner at least) is not "damsel in distress" type. Mizore already fulfiled this role - she was kidnaped by Miyabi and rescued by Tsukune & harem. I expect him to come back as a villain but not as a love rival for Tsukune. Do you really expect that any of his girls, at this point of story, will fall for anyone except Tsukune?
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Old 2010-01-07, 17:54   Link #12799
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Too cliché, I don't want to read another manga with something like it. Such plot was main reason why I dropped FMP... Besides Moka (Inner at least) is not "damsel in distress" type. Mizore already fulfiled this role - she was kidnaped by Miyabi and rescued by Tsukune & harem. I expect him to come back as a villain but not as a love rival for Tsukune. Do you really expect that any of his girls, at this point of story, will fall for anyone except Tsukune?
Hard to say, it feels really late in the story to introduce a new person... if a new rival is introduce it has to be a person from the girls past, like a childhood friend.
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Old 2010-01-07, 19:11   Link #12800
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If I put Inner Moka in a 'damsel in distress' character, I wasn't thinking of it in the classical sense...but I didn't have enough time to expound on it - but hey, the best ideas aren't always the quick ones. ^^
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