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Old 2010-04-05, 18:34   Link #13481
tyranuus
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Hmmm bit of a major spoiler here about CH29 if true
Spoiler for !!!:
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-04-05 at 19:54.
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Old 2010-04-05, 18:51   Link #13482
Xagzan
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Originally Posted by FriedRice84 View Post
That depends on how you see Moka. Tsukune considers them as one person. I tend to see Ura-chan and Omote as two sides of the same coin as well. To me, they are one person.

The tropers on TVtropes also think that Moka falls under the tsundere classification: here and here.
Hehe, believe it or not I actually added one or two of those entries myself.
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Old 2010-04-05, 19:20   Link #13483
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FriedRice84, if I remmeber it was listed as an intersting but also doubtful case, not to mention that TV tropes are edited by anyone. I can easily go and edit those myself now.... You should never use TV Tropes as a reliable source you know...

At first almost everyone denied Moka being a true tsundere, but with Inner Moka acting more dere she is indeed a true tsundere but rather than because Outer Inner Moke changes it is based on the Inner Moka alone.
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Old 2010-04-05, 19:55   Link #13484
tyranuus
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Aye, TV Tropes isn't exactly a reliable source. Still interesting if what it says about CH29 is true though...
How long does it usually take from a raw being released to a translation being done?
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Old 2010-04-05, 20:41   Link #13485
kenjiharima
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Of course some of the father's part will be taken for account.
Isn't the seal also part of Inner Moka's training?
Also I wonder if she'll(Inner Moka) will end up like the anime version after the Tsun-Tsun is out of the way.

Also Iam glad here that Tsukune did not go emo when Outer was gone.
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Old 2010-04-05, 21:43   Link #13486
kitten320
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Please don't remind me of anime ending x_x
If author will do the same thing in manga, I swear I'll kill someone. Tsukune treated inner Moka really bad! what he did was far worse then if he would choose her sister instead.
I still want to kick out the daylights out of anime Tsukune.


Also I still keep seeing Outer and Inner Moka as two separate beings, more like sisters trapped in one body or something.
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Old 2010-04-05, 22:07   Link #13487
FriedRice84
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Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Hmmm bit of a major spoiler here about CH29 if true
Spoiler for !!!:
I think that was a mistake on whoever entered that trope. We don't know what Moka's mom is. We might find out this chapter or subsequent chapters in this arc. She could be human or she could be youkai - we don't know, yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
FriedRice84, if I remmeber it was listed as an intersting but also doubtful case, not to mention that TV tropes are edited by anyone. I can easily go and edit those myself now.... You should never use TV Tropes as a reliable source you know...

At first almost everyone denied Moka being a true tsundere, but with Inner Moka acting more dere she is indeed a true tsundere but rather than because Outer Inner Moke changes it is based on the Inner Moka alone.
Haha...yeah, I know TVtropes isn't exactly the best place to quote. I just wanted to say that while Moka might have two personalities, until recently, Ura-chan has played the tsuntsun part while Omote played the deredere part. It might not be one personality playing the complete tsundere, but both personalities come together to form the basic definition of what a tsundere is. It just takes Tsukune pulling off/putting on the Rosary and split personalities to achieve the tsundere-ness.

I guess the reason we disagree is because you've said that you think Omote is not the true Moka while I believe that Omote is part of the true Moka. What I mean is that Omote represents parts of Ura-chan's personality that is hidden under her power, her pride, and her nature. My belief is just a theory but we'll find out soon enough where Omote came from.
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Old 2010-04-05, 22:12   Link #13488
kenjiharima
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Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
I prefer their manga counterparts over the anime ones. Not sure if we seen it yet, but I wouldn't mind seeing Tsurara with her hair down...

We got a Tsurara hair down on the anime when she was young,
Also that art of Mizore was on season1 when she first cut her hair her character design is still on development back then. The later Tsurara and Mizore looked more similar to each other.
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Old 2010-04-06, 00:32   Link #13489
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Hmmm bit of a major spoiler here about CH29 if true
Spoiler for !!!:
Well tyranuus I wouldn't take that information to seriously, so far there isn't anything that suggests Moka's mother is human ... she might be human, but the possibility of her being a youkai is still there.

Simply put we don't know how reliable you're source of information is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedRice84 View Post

I just wanted to say that while Moka might have two personalities, until recently, Ura-chan has played the tsuntsun part while Omote played the deredere part. It might not be one personality playing the complete tsundere, but both personalities come together to form the basic definition of what a tsundere is. It just takes Tsukune pulling off/putting on the Rosary and split personalities to achieve the tsundere-ness.

I guess the reason we disagree is because you've said that you think Omote is not the true Moka while I believe that Omote is part of the true Moka. What I mean is that Omote represents parts of Ura-chan's personality that is hidden under her power, her pride, and her nature. My belief is just a theory but we'll find out soon enough where Omote came from.
Well FriedRice I agree with what you said about Moka's personality ... I mean I also think that Omote is the softer part of Moka, while Ura-chan represents the harder part, which contains her vampire nature as well.

On the discussion about Outer Moka being real or not ... well I think she is a part of Moka that was given a consciousness by the power of Moka's Rosario.

I think that many people might get confused on this topic ... because with the Rosario gone ... Outer Moka seems to be gone as well, though she is still present inside Moka, shown by having a awareness of what her other half is doing.

So what I think taking of the Rosario does ... is just causing both personalities of Moka to switch places ... without the Rosario Inner Moka becomes the dominant personality and when the seal returns to it's place Outer Moka becomes the dominant personality again. It also explains what happened in the recent chapter's as well .... after Moka's seal became weaker, it caused the same reaction as when Tsukune takes off the Rosario with Inner Moka becoming the dominant personality and Outer Moka being "sealed" inside her.

All of this basically means that when the two personalities of Moka ... decide to fuse together, it will in my opinion cause Moka's personality to return to how it was, before the Rosario came into the picture.
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Old 2010-04-06, 00:59   Link #13490
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That's very possible, but has anyone considered that the collar itself could also be part of the seal as well?

Think about it, the part when Moka had nearly broke the collar seemed to have dealt a heavy blow to the seal's construction and probably is the root of the failure in the first place, and having it off for the day just aggravated the failure to make it happen faster.

You'll also notice that the WAY it was pulled apart might have had an impact on whether the seal could even BE repaired the first time. Like those pearls on there could be a stabilizer for the seal, and if the string they reside on broke, and Moka failed to recover all the pearls, it could have prevented her seal from being fixed at all.

Fortunately that wasn't the case and the string was intact and only the rivet pulled loose from the collar and the chain-plate pad, but still left all the pearls on the string to be put back into place during the repair. Even the order of each pearl could have an effect as well, but that's going into the nitty gritty of the construction of the seal itself.

If anything, those could have an even greater a role on the seal than even what I've stated so far, so we we'll see once they go into greater detail about that.
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Old 2010-04-06, 01:22   Link #13491
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post
That's very possible, but has anyone considered that the collar itself could also be part of the seal as well?

Think about it, the part when Moka had nearly broke the collar seemed to have dealt a heavy blow to the seal's construction and probably is the root of the failure in the first place, and having it off for the day just aggravated the failure to make it happen faster.

You'll also notice that the WAY it was pulled apart might have had an impact on whether the seal could even BE repaired the first time. Like those pearls on there could be a stabilizer for the seal, and if the string they reside on broke, and Moka failed to recover all the pearls, it could have prevented her seal from being fixed at all.

Fortunately that wasn't the case and the string was intact and only the rivet pulled loose from the collar and the chain-plate pad, but still left all the pearls on the string to be put back into place during the repair. Even the order of each pearl could have an effect as well, but that's going into the nitty gritty of the construction of the seal itself.

If anything, those could have an even greater a role on the seal than even what I've stated so far, so we we'll see once they go into greater detail about that.
Well, it has been stated in one of the recent chapter's, probably when Inner Moka was out for the whole day that there where some sounds coming from Moka's collar, which suggests that Moka's seal might be more complicated in her build-up then we think.

Spoiler for Chapter 29:
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Old 2010-04-06, 01:27   Link #13492
kanoe81
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Sorry, new here...

Read what I could of ch 29 in Japanese and from what I can tell, there's no mention of Moka's mother being human. Of course, some of the text is obscured in the raws so I might be missing something big.

Spoiler for Other stuff from ch29:

Nothing like a newbie showing up to ruin the party, eh?

Anyway, carry on. I love this series and this is the most active board I've seen actually discussing the series.
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Old 2010-04-06, 01:36   Link #13493
Chris38
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Originally Posted by kanoe81 View Post
Sorry, new here...

Read what I could of ch 29 in Japanese and from what I can tell, there's no mention of Moka's mother being human. Of course, some of the text is obscured in the raws so I might be missing something big.

Spoiler for Other stuff from ch29:

Nothing like a newbie showing up to ruin the party, eh?

Anyway, carry on. I love this series and this is the most active board I've seen actually discussing the series.
Well ... then from the looks of it ... my interpretation of chapter 29 is similar to yours kanoe.

Anyway welcome on the board kanoe ... hope you will enjoy you're stay here
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Old 2010-04-06, 02:57   Link #13494
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Hmm, that that means that Tsukune and Moka have one hell of an uphill battle ahead of them.
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Old 2010-04-06, 03:24   Link #13495
Chris38
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Hmm, that that means that Tsukune and Moka have one hell of an uphill battle ahead of them.
Well ... that's certainly true GrrDraxin, but at the same time it means that we should expect more developments in Tsukune's vampire abilities.

I mean ... as I'm sure you noticed GrrDraxin that while Tsukune has become quite a formidable opponent he's nowhere near the level of a vampire ... who like Moka has been trained in using their vampire abilities from their birth. So we should expect some rapid development in his case ... to bring him closer to that level.

Spoiler for Chapter 29 spoiler's:
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Old 2010-04-06, 03:26   Link #13496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
So what I think taking of the Rosario does ... is just causing both personalities of Moka to switch places ... without the Rosario Inner Moka becomes the dominant personality and when the seal returns to it's place Outer Moka becomes the dominant personality again. It also explains what happened in the recent chapter's as well .... after Moka's seal became weaker, it caused the same reaction as when Tsukune takes off the Rosario with Inner Moka becoming the dominant personality and Outer Moka being "sealed" inside her.

All of this basically means that when the two personalities of Moka ... decide to fuse together, it will in my opinion cause Moka's personality to return to how it was, before the Rosario came into the picture.
Hmm but I think as long as the mangaka wants to show the changes he will have to change the dminant persona - either make her more like Inner Moka or somewhat combination but still more on the prideful side, just to illustrate the changes. If we get a combination of Outer Moka and Inner Moka like it was with Rosario there will be hardly any changes visible, juts that now the switches will be without Rosario.
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Old 2010-04-06, 03:42   Link #13497
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Hmm but I think as long as the mangaka wants to show the changes he will have to change the dminant persona - either make her more like Inner Moka or somewhat combination but still more on the prideful side, just to illustrate the changes. If we get a combination of Outer Moka and Inner Moka like it was with Rosario there will be hardly any changes visible, juts that now the switches will be without Rosario.
You're quite right about that Darknemo ... but he also have to show that she is still Moka (has both aspect's of Outer and Inner Moka's personalities) ... well thinking about it ... it shows how hard it's going to be ... to develop such a character, which means that it will probably happen much later in the story.

Well, truth be told I have a hard time imaging what a merged Moka's personality is going to be like ... I quite agree that the fused Moka is probably going to act similarly to Inner Moka and show the Outer Moka aspects of her personality only to certain people that are important to her (Tsukune) ... well it's kind of hard to imagine how the fused Moka is going to behave, but I definitely agree that it will have to be a little different then how Moka is acting now ... with two personalities inside her.
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Old 2010-04-06, 05:35   Link #13498
tyranuus
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Going to be interesting it seems. Also am I the only one who thinks Kokoa will side wiith Moka and the gang regardless of where the Shuzen family may be officially aligned, she has too much love and respect for I.Moka and it sounds like she never saw eye to eye with much of the family.

Also if the whole mum/human thing is sorted by the translation, if I remember Ill go edit TT's so it doesnt confuse the issue. Hopefully the translation is done soon.
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Old 2010-04-06, 05:44   Link #13499
Tri-ring
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OK here are two tidbits within the Japanese that I found interesting.

Spoiler for My interest:


An thoughts on those parts?
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Old 2010-04-06, 06:16   Link #13500
Chris38
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OK here are two tidbits within the Japanese that I found interesting.

Spoiler for My interest:


An thoughts on those parts?
Well this certainly makes things more interesting to say the least ...

Spoiler for Moka's Rosario and family - chapter 29 spoiler's:
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