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Old 2010-06-18, 02:54   Link #14581
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I'm not a fanfic person, but I'll give it a shot.

I really don't like that theory. It's like a cop out, when someone dies they should be dead.
then how about this, the rosario holds the blood of the shinso that Akasha removed from herself in order to not let Akuha have it. It's not actually Akasha in it but that could be why outer Moka looks exactly like Akasha. It would also explain why Akuha is after Moka currently when the blood isn't hereditary.
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Old 2010-06-18, 06:03   Link #14582
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Well, it's also possible that Akasha may be still alive, but there is also a possibility that she's not, but, here is an interesting thing to think about; What if Akasha lost her shinso blood upon giving birth to Moka, and since Moka's power hadn't matured yet she wasn't in any danger until her 10th birthday when her power would start developing more. So Akasha and Issa had made arrangements to send Moka away because of the suspicions that they had of Akua, since they were probably aware that Moka may be a Shinso. And Akasha made the rosary to suppress that blood and just let Moka's normal vampire blood be her power when the rosary is removed.

Because of Akasha's wish to have Moka live life like a normal girl, she tweaked the seal to make Moka's personality change, and likely based it on her own traits as she may be familiar with the kind of personality humans can best cope with, and tried to model Moka's childhood life to be as happy and loving as possible so as not to taint Moka with hard times and great deals of sadness or conflict, so that even unsealed, she'll still want to be a good person and do the right things for herself and those around her.

This would also fall into the view that doing that selective memory wipe was necessary because a major tragic event would upset the balance that Akasha so painstakingly maintained to have Moka remain a kind and good girl. Then this next chapter is probably something that will throw that off, thus justifying the memory wipe on Moka.

But that's just an extension of my other theory about why Akua wants to find Moka. This could be right, or it could be wrong, be we won't know for sure until either the next chapter or August.
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Old 2010-06-18, 07:19   Link #14583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post
Spoiler for snip:
Yes, I also think Akasha lost her Shinso status when she gave birth to Moka, effectively making Moka the carrier of the Shinso blood. The reason I believe this is because if Akasha still had her Shinso powers, Akuha wouldn't have been able to defeat her single-handedly, not when Akasha is powerful enough to take on Alucard (albeit with the help of two other exceptionally powerful Ayashi). But from the looks of it, it appears Akuha was victorious from that fight but is still after Moka for one reason or another. The fact is, Akasha has disappeared, Akuha hasn't, and the fact Akuha is searching for Moka and not Akasha leads me to think that if Akasha isn't dead, she has been defeated and Akuha knows where she is, and knows that she does not have what she thought Akasha could offer.

Now about the personality change, do you mean the personality of both Inner and Outer Moka, or is the personality change the kind of change we see when Moka wears the Rosario? We don't know exactly what else the Rosario is hiding, but I wouldn't bet that it can so much as change someone's character to some extent, though it's not as if I don't think it's possible for something like that to happen. I just think Moka is naturally like that, cold but kind, and take away the dark memories, we see the Moka that would've been without the events that turned her life around. Character is also shaped by memories after all. Alter the memories, and you alter the character, and I do believe that the Rosario sealed some of those dark memories, which caused Inner Moka's slight character change. I think it's more of a side-effect rather than an outright change.
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Old 2010-06-18, 10:09   Link #14584
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo;3096727[SPOILER="snip"
]Yes, I also think Akasha lost her Shinso status when she gave birth to Moka, effectively making Moka the carrier of the Shinso blood. The reason I believe this is because if Akasha still had her Shinso powers, Akuha wouldn't have been able to defeat her single-handedly, not when Akasha is powerful enough to take on Alucard (albeit with the help of two other exceptionally powerful Ayashi). But from the looks of it, it appears Akuha was victorious from that fight but is still after Moka for one reason or another. The fact is, Akasha has disappeared, Akuha hasn't, and the fact Akuha is searching for Moka and not Akasha leads me to think that if Akasha isn't dead, she has been defeated and Akuha knows where she is, and knows that she does not have what she thought Akasha could offer..[/SPOILER]
Well, it might be possibility that Akasha's Shinso status was lost when she gave birth too Moka .. I mean Akasha's Shinso power's where transfered to Moka , but the only thing that I have still doubt's about is .. that according to the manga ... at least for now, is that Shinso power's aren't passed by heredity ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 31, page 19 ), so taking that into consideration it doesn't really makes sense to me that Moka might have acquired the power's of a Shinso vampire from the time she was born, ( meaning that it was passed by heredity, which contradicts with what has been stated in the manga so far. ) ... so the only way this theory could work is that Moka has been injected with Akasha's blood ... when she's was still an infant or a child. Still that doesn't explain how could Akasha be defeated by Akuha ... unless Akuha is a lot stronger then she appears to be, which would explain the statement that she made here ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 31, page 32 ). Furthermore if it really where the case that Akasha lost her Shinso power's and became weaker then she was before ... then shouldn't the same happen with Moka, who according to you're theory Yoko Takeo has inherited the power's of a Shinso vampire from Akasha, should be weaker after she has injected her vampire blood into Tsukune ... and while she's certainly weakened after injecting a large amount of her blood into him ( Rosario + Vampire Season I, chapter 10, page 33 ) ... after some time passes ... in Inner Moka's next fight, her vampire abilities don't seem to be weakened anymore ( Rosario + Vampire Season I, chapter 12, page 40 ) , which makes me think that rather then the Shinso vampire losing the title of a Shinso vampire and becoming an ordinary one ... it might be possible that the power's of an Shinso vampire can be transfered only to one person, along with their blood and after they do that ... their blood losses the attribute, that allows the Shinso vampire to pass their abilities to their chosen descendant. I mean for example, something like that :

Akasha - > Moka ( passes her Shinso vampire abilities to Moka and after that she can't transfer her power's to someone else ) ;

Moka -> Tsukune ( passes her Shinso vampire abilities to Tsukune, changing him into a Shinso vampire in the process and after that she can't pass her power's to someone else ).

Well , the only contradiction with this theory that I have is that Moka still sucks Tsukune's blood, and going by this theory it would mean that the Shinso vampire attributes are returned to Moka, forbidding Tsukune from passing it too someone else, unless the Shinso blood is smart enough to recognize the source from which it came from ... and isn't returned their .

Of course this is still something that I'm still thinking about, since there are still a lot of things that we don't know about Shinso vampires, but that's my current opinion about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Spoiler for snip:


Well I think it's possible that Moka ... after her memories, changed her character a little bit .. though I also think that her ... much harsher and cold attitude was also the result of the kinder aspect of Moka's personality being separated ( to some extent ) from Inner Moka, resulting in her being much more affected by the war like impulses of Moka's vampire blood.

It's probably something that we will know more about, once more of the mysteries hidden inside the Rosario are revealed.
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Old 2010-06-18, 10:23   Link #14585
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I think you misinterpreted what's in the manga. Akuha never said you absolutely cannot achieve Shinso blood through heredity. She said that you can only obtain that power by taking a Shinso's blood. This counts for newborn babies as well, as the fetus relies on the mother's blood in order to grow and survive within the womb, and it's also possible that Vampire pregnancy holds other secrets or traits not seen in human cases. To me, the way Akuha said it made it sound like familial heredity isn't the only way to obtain Shinso powers. She never said it's impossible.

As for the character traits getting separated, you don't mean that there are aspects of Moka that only outer Moka posesses and Inner Moka doesn't? I don't find that possible at all because Outer Moka is what is left of Moka's character traits after the seal hides everything else. This doesn't create an entirely separate character. When the seal is removed, you get to see Inner Moka because the seal is no longer containing to aspects that were hidden before. So the aspects of Outer Moka's character remain in the open while Inner Moka's character traits resurface. In other words, Inner Moka is the complete Moka. The two aren't exclusively separate from each other. That just wouldn't be possible.
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Old 2010-06-18, 11:11   Link #14586
Shinso Tsukune
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I believe Tsukune will become the next shinso, since Akuha said the only way to gain the Shinso power Would be to gain thier blood, and Moka injected Tsukune 5 times until he ghoulified, Not only that but Akihisa Ikeda had set the story to where in the first season Tsukune would be injected multiple times before he finally transformed but it was stated the most people would die from the injections, But its "rarity" for them to transform into a ghoul in this case Tsukune did, it should go something like this right?

Shinso Bloodline kinda?
Akasha -> Moka -> Original Human Tsukune -> Temporary Vampire Tsukune -> Ghoul Tsukune -> Training -> Shinso Vampire Transformation -> The Next Shinso
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Old 2010-06-18, 11:57   Link #14587
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Spoiler for snip:
.
Well, that's true ... and it might be possible that Akasha's Shinso power's have been transfered to Moka in that way. What I wanted to point out ... is that transferring Shinso power's along with you're blood doesn't seem to weaken the Shinso vampire permanently, (as seen in Moka's case ... after she has given her blood - which at this point is probably the blood of a Shinso vampire ) so rather then that being the reason why Akuha wasn't able to obtain the power's of a Shinso vampire from Akuha might be because only the few first blood transfusions between a Shinso vampire and another individual ( a vampire .. or like Tsukune an ordinary human for example ) have the chance of successfully transfusing and changing the injected person into a Shinso vampire ... in opinion it's probably something that depends on the amount of blood being transfused, but once the Shinso vampire crosses over the limit of injections that have a chance of turning someone into a Shinso vampire ( which, probably depends on how strong the Shinso vampire is ), his blood is unable to successfully change another person into a Shinso vampire. Well in a sense you where right that they become a little weaker ... though I doubt it has a effect on their combat abilities ...

Though maybe I'm over thinking this a little since their is still a lot we don't know and trying to put some ... well complex theories on this doesn't seem to have much sense at this point.

Well ... simply said I agree that Akuha was unable to take the power of a Shinso vampire from Akasha ... probably because that power was already transfered to Moka and from her it has probably been transfered to Tsukune ... though I doubt it has made Akasha weaker then she was before Moka has been born, since as we see can see in Moka's case, though she has been weakened shortly after injecting Tsukune with her blood .. she was still able to recover her strength after some time ... so returning to Akasha, I think that during the time she was pregnant with Moka, as well as during the time of birth , Akasha might be a little weakened and probably couldn't draw her strength correctly at that time ... but I doubt it's something that she would need ten year's to recover from. So I doubt that Akasha would be weakened, when she faces off against Akuha in the latest chapter ... let's also not forget that I doubt that Akuha has shown her true potential yet ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 30, page 15 ) ... and Akasha probably knows that she's against a formidable opponent which is why she has taken her seriously. ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 31, pages 32,33 )

Well I think that Moka's return to the mansion is going to put a stop to the fight between Akuha and Akasha and while I don't want to think about the outcome of that fight, since I still hope that Akasha will somehow survive this ... I think that during this whole situation Moka's Shinso power's will manifest themselves, making Akuha aware that she isn't targeting the correct person ... and during that time ... someone will probably interfere giving Moka the chance to escape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Spoiler for snip:
.
Well , you're right Yoko Takeo .. it seems that I have been over thinking things ... again ... though thinking about this maybe the reason why Moka's attitude changed so much, because of the incident between her and Akuha .. where Moka probably learned that she has been deceived by Akuha since the time they met each other, even after she learned to respect her so much ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 30, page 33 ) ... so learning the truth might be enough of a shock that caused her to develop the attitude foreword others that she currently has ... to protect herself from being hurt by, someone she believes in again.

Last edited by Chris38; 2010-06-18 at 12:45.
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Old 2010-06-18, 12:53   Link #14588
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I wonder why a lots of posters here assume two things:
1. Akhua killed Akasha
2. There could be only one shinso Vampire.

Ad. 1. Nothing suggest Akasha is dead. As far as we know Moka in middle school was living with her mother in human world. Unless Mokas memory were completely remodeled, or she is a sicko living with dead body of her mother - Akasha is alive, just was forced to left vampire society. Aqua and Mocca rivalry could be explained because Moka has seen Akhua attacking, maybe wounding her mother and Akhua is the reason why she was forced to live in human world. Otherwise you have to assume: 1. Akhua was stronger than Akasha, but weaker than Moka, and 2. Moka decided to not revenge her dead mother.

Ad. 2. Nothing suggest that there could be only one shinso vampire. We only know that a normal vampire could become a shinso after sucking shinso vampire blood.
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Old 2010-06-18, 12:53   Link #14589
Shinso Tsukune
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Next chapter is gonna be epic, thats when things really start to heat up leading all the way to the final showdown, unless thier is gonna be a season 3.

Last edited by Shinso Tsukune; 2010-06-18 at 13:39.
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Old 2010-06-18, 13:43   Link #14590
Magin
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... it seems someone's trying to jump the gun with their username...

and no, there will not be a Season III. As has been explained before, it become Season II because the series switched magazines, and Ikeda-sensei just timed things right so it would be a smooth transition

as for the thing about Akasha- we know two solid facts. One, Akasha isn't here and Akuha is. Two, the rosario messed with Moka's memories. Which opens the possibility that her living with her mother is merely an implanted memory. Then again, it does raise the question of, if she hasn't been with her mother before she came to Youkai Academy, then what was going on? We need to see the actual outcome of the fight, and most of the posters here are trying to fill the void till July with theories

As for the shinso... well, I'm guessing that Akuha is after Moka, and we know that she wants the power of the Shinso, and apparently didn't get it from Akasha. Which why we're trying to figure out if Moka got the power of the Shinso, and possibly Tsukune as well
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Old 2010-06-18, 17:49   Link #14591
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alucard could be moka's real father or aat least an uncle
thant woul be really crazy, but not the craziest thing i have seen
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Old 2010-06-18, 18:20   Link #14592
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Alucard's already her ancestor. He doesn't need to make it an I Am Your Father moment.
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Old 2010-06-18, 18:33   Link #14593
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Maybe Akuha is kinda like a vampire hunter (Belmont's family )

So Young Moka was more like Outer Moka's character .
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Old 2010-06-18, 20:32   Link #14594
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Yeah I never use to be, but once I started reading them I couldn't stop myself...

Famous poster for your last comment...
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I really have to watch that series. I'm playing the VN right now. Just finished the first route (true end on the first shot ). And that is obviously a TL joke of some kind, but it is very funny.

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then how about this, the rosario holds the blood of the shinso that Akasha removed from herself in order to not let Akuha have it. It's not actually Akasha in it but that could be why outer Moka looks exactly like Akasha. It would also explain why Akuha is after Moka currently when the blood isn't hereditary.
I think it would be her own blood, but I do like that better.
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Old 2010-06-18, 20:43   Link #14595
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My point exactly to make a long quote short, after running back home to retrieve the Rosario Moka left behind, she must have found Akuha and Akasha fighting at the scene when Akasha dies. Maybe that's why the two hate each other? Because at the end of chapter 31, the last picture is of Akuha in her fighting stance, meaning that she has physically assaulted Akasha in order to 'capture' her and obtain her Shinso blood.
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Old 2010-06-19, 00:13   Link #14596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkuhaShuzen View Post
Spoiler for snip:
Well like Arturro mentioned in his post, we can't assume that Akasha was killed by Akuha ... since she still might be alive, but due to the confrontation with Akuha she was probably forced to leave the Shuzen family household.

So I wouldn't discount the possibility of Moka's mother surviving through this, and while Akuha is probably stronger then a typical vampire, I doubt she's as strong as Akasha, who is a Shinso vampire ... since why would she need the power's of a Shinso vampire if Akuha was as strong as one of them., then why would she need to posses their power's.

So basically, we still don't know what happened to Akasha .. and while she certainly could loose against Akuha, due to Moka's return to the mansion ... do you think that Akuha is powerful enough to land a life threatening injury on a Shinso vampire ... if you remember even this wasn't enough to kill Moka ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 14, page 21 )... who is almost certainly a Shinso vampire and well if the fight between Khaula and Moka continued, Moka would probably die ... since such extensive injuries definitely lowered her defensive capabilities ... and I believe that Akasha is at this point still stronger then Moka, so I doubt that the damages Akuha could make are probably going to be serious ... I doubt that she would be able to kill her ... not to mention that do you think Moka will let Akuha continue to injure Akasha after she sees something like that happening before her eyes, cause I doubt it given what was made apparent here ... that Moka really loves her mother and doesn't want to be separated from her. (Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 31, page 31 ) ,,, so I really doubt that Moka will allow Akuha to continue injuring her mother and probably a fight ( to death ) is going to break out ... during which Moka's Shinso abilities are going to awaken.

Though I doubt that they would be a conclusion to that fight ... since in my opinion something else has happened at the same time and most likely it was caused by Moka and Akuha fighting each other ... and the Shuzen family wanted to avoid something like that from occurring again, which is why they want to try to keep Moka and Akuha away from each other (Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 29, page 19 ) ... unfortunately due to Tsukune becoming involved in Moka's life ... the Shuzen family plans have failed, and now will probably see history repeating itself ... though maybe due to Tsukune's presence, things are going to proceed quite differently then before ... which is even more possible, with Tsukune being in Moka's memories and learning what actually happened between Akuha and Moka in the past. Obviously it leads to Tsukune becoming quite motivated to avoid something like that from happening again ... which is going to lead to Tsukune interfering with the fight between Akuha and Moka ... during which Tsukune is probably going to finally undergo some developments in his vampire abilities ... which we haven't seen him using for quite a long time.
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Old 2010-06-19, 02:20   Link #14597
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I think it would be her own blood, but I do like that better.
If Akasha used the Shinso blood in the rosario then it would also explain how she might get beaten by Akuha, to lose that kind of power would probably leave her VERY weak. Akuha realizes after she beats Akasha that she no longer has the power and then Moka arrives, sees what happened to her mother and maybe taps into the power of the shinso blood in the Rosario and attacked Akuha. Powered by the Shinso blood she fight Akuha in a battle that leaves everyone afraid what would happen if they ever met again. Akuha realizes that Moka had it but Moka was moved out of her reach afterwards which is why she is chasing Moka currently.
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Old 2010-06-19, 03:31   Link #14598
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Spoiler for snip:
The only problem I can see with this theory is that the based on what we know about seals so far, they can't seal something that isin't already present in the person who wears them ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 29, page 24 ), and while it can definitely store something immaterial, like Moka's memories ... that was already present inside Moka's psyche or body.

For example I could definitely agree if it was something like the Rosario sealing the Shinso blood that has already been transfered to Moka by Akasha, but I don't think it's possible (based on what we know so far ) to use the Rosario as an object to transfer something with a physical form like for example Akasha's Shinso vampire blood.
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Old 2010-06-19, 07:50   Link #14599
Shinso Tsukune
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Lol, an Akuha Shuzen account, i guess people are really excited about the new developments concerning R+V. I could'nt help but make an account like this, it is a cool idea of thinken Tsukune would transform into a shinso vampire, we all have fantasies
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Old 2010-06-19, 08:17   Link #14600
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Lol, an Akuha Ahuzen account, i guess people are really excited about the new developments concerning R+V. I could'nt help but make an account like this, it is a cool idea of thinken Tsukune would transform into a shinso vampire, we all have fantasies
Well at this point I doubt that it's only a fantasy anymore ... since I think that there is a strong possibility that Tsukune will become an Shinso vampire ... though it's probably going to be near the end of the R+V manga and not right in the middle of it. ... when their are still a lot of chapter's before the ending.

I mean the author wouldn't make Akasha - Moka's mother ... into an Shinso vampire ... and more specifically introduce them into the story if it didn't have any impact on the pair of main protagonists ... which at this point are Moka and Tsukune.

Not to mention that Tsukune becoming a Shinso vampire fits with the cliche theme of Shounen manga about the protagonist wielding some rare kind of power or learning some rare ability ... which gives him an advantage later in the story.

Well I don't have anything against Tsukune becoming a Shinso vampire at the end ... since I'm quite enjoying the developments that where made to Tsukune's character after he acquired vampire power's of his own ... though unfortunately it depends on where the author wants to go with Tsukune's development ... since despite the recent plot twists we still don't know a lot about Tsukune's transformation and in a way the recent developments are making the pile of mysteries that surround Tsukune's "current form" and what he is going to become in the end ... even bigger (at least in my opinion), but considering the prophecy Jack Frost has made about Tsukune and Moka ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, chapter 14, page 32)... I think we can be pretty sure that they are going to become pretty powerful in the end ... and probably as famous as the three Dark Lords ... though that might be me exaggerating things a little bit.

At the very least I'm sure that we will see even more interesting things before this manga comes to an end,
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