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Old 2010-09-11, 16:53   Link #17041
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Well, thinking about what you said Yoko Takeo ... it might be possible that what the headmaster wants to achieve is trying to create such a transcendental being, that would go beyond what an "Ayashi" is capable of.

That's probably the reason's why, probably due to the Headmaster's manipulations, have started to appear at Youkai Academy and have been coincidentally met with different types of Ayashi, who would ... for different reasons, inject the human they met with their blood ... which could start the humans evolution into a "transcendental" being, like for example, what happened with Hokuto and Tsukune.

After all I believe that Mikogami is quire aware of what humanity is capable off ... so he might be using the capabilities of some individual humans, like for example Tsukune, to draw the world of humans, and the world of ayashi closer to each other ... which, after some time, could lead to a human and youkai coexistence becoming more possible ... or at least make a part of the youkai world, integrate with each other a little more, which would lead them, to have more chances of not losing against humanity.
Indeed, that could be why the headmaster got humans to enter the school. I'm really curious to know if there's a bit more of a history between Alucard and the Dark Lords. Part of me even thinks they were all once allies fighting for a common cause, but eventually, something happened that drew Alucard away from the group and sought power that surpasses Ayashi. The headmaster figured out what it was and did his research to find out. He discovered the nature of the transcendant being in some way or another, and is now attempting to create one for the purpose of unifying humans and ayashi. He originally intended to make use of Hokuto for that, but failed given Hokuto's dark past and his willingness to simply turn into another monster. Tsukune, on the other hand, has the potential to succeed because he's extremely humane and compassionate, both of which are requirements for becoming a transcendant being, both requirements that Alucard and Hokuto were lacking.
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Old 2010-09-11, 23:18   Link #17042
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Well I'm pretty sure that Tsukune is going to come back because what would Rosario+Vampire be without him? But it does make me wonder...what's going to happen to the Outer Moka now? I have a feeling that she's going to be the one who gets him out of this 'dream world' and maybe, MAYBE the two Mokas will become two seperate people...I also wonder what Akuha wants with Moka (though it's highly predictable that she's after the Shinso blood) but what happened to her feelings from the past?

Anyway, I have another theory about why they stopped the anime. Well, we all know that the manga and the anime series are almost COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, right? Well, I think that they're trying to sort the story out now that we know that Akasha created the seal, not Moka's father (hence episode 13 of Season 2)
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Old 2010-09-12, 00:33   Link #17043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkuhaShuzen View Post
Well I'm pretty sure that Tsukune is going to come back because what would Rosario+Vampire be without him? But it does make me wonder...what's going to happen to the Outer Moka now? I have a feeling that she's going to be the one who gets him out of this 'dream world' and maybe, MAYBE the two Mokas will become two seperate people...I also wonder what Akuha wants with Moka (though it's highly predictable that she's after the Shinso blood) but what happened to her feelings from the past?

Anyway, I have another theory about why they stopped the anime. Well, we all know that the manga and the anime series are almost COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, right? Well, I think that they're trying to sort the story out now that we know that Akasha created the seal, not Moka's father (hence episode 13 of Season 2)
I don't think that Outer Moka and Inner Moka will become separate people ... that would open a lot of other problems that would be a little hard for the author to answer ... not to mention that it doesn't make a lot of sense, since how do you think AkuhaShuzen, Outer Moka could receive a separate body, for her to use ?

To me, it's more likely that Outer and Inner Moka are going to merge together, causing Moka's personality to return to her "true" personality that she had, before she started wearing the Rosario.

Akua's objective is ... most likely trying to use Moka's power's to achieve her own ambitions . Due to the threat of Alucard, I doubt that Akua is still after the Shinso blood, but she might be trying to achieve her world domination plans, by trying to make Moka join her side and use Moka's power's to realize her ambitions.

After all, due to the feelings Akua has for Moka (and those feelings are probably ... only for Moka, I doubt she would allow anyone else to intervene in her objective of taking Moka away ...), Akua can't hurt Moka, but that doesn't mean she doesn't want to "convince" Moka ... and is going to be quite surprised that Moka has grown a lot differently, compared to Akua's expectations about what kind of girl Moka is going to be, when she grows up .
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Old 2010-09-12, 02:02   Link #17044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post

Simply saying, at this point ... I think that Ikeda is going to turn Tsukune into a "new" kind of being, that hadn't appeared in the R+V universe so far ... and Tsukune is going to be the only individual that is going to belong to this "race" (at least, until he doesn't ... um, you know, knock Moka up )
Fixed it

and you know what I find funny? you're all talking about about what Tsukune will eveolve into, but there's a slight roadblock right now: he needs to get out of Emo mode... and sadly, I half suspect it's going to take more than one chapter to do that...
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Old 2010-09-12, 04:30   Link #17045
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Fixed it

and you know what I find funny? you're all talking about about what Tsukune will eveolve into, but there's a slight roadblock right now: he needs to get out of Emo mode... and sadly, I half suspect it's going to take more than one chapter to do that...
Of course. I doubt he'll become a transcended being anytime soon. He still needs a lot of training before he can reach that stage. But he will be able to overcome the weaknesses of Vampires and make use of the full strength of the powers of the Shinso once he completes his training to control them.
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Old 2010-09-12, 06:52   Link #17046
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Am I the only one who doesn't want Tsukune to become THAT powerful, and still need Moka's help at the very least to take down Alucard etc

I'm all for gaining levels in badass, but sometimes it gets a bit silly, when it gets to the level the protagonist can beat anyone with no struggle, there's no more development room without a usually obvious mcguffin and the whole thing becomes a bit boring.
I don't want this manga to hit the classic JRPG Lvl.99 beats everything in one move stage, which lets be fair, becoming 'transcended' would pretty much offer.

As the saying goes, there's always (and should always be) a bigger fish.


Spoiler for @Chris:



Despite Akua's intentions of taking Moka away, I doubt Tsukune or Moka herself will let her get away with it easily, if its within thier grasp. Once everything is resolved with Tsukune's emo fit, I doubt he'll be letting Moka out of his sight for a while (poor man).

@Magin

Depending on what happens within the Rosario, I think it's possible Tsukune COULD be brought out of his melancholy quite quickly with the right news or discovery, but you're right Ikeda might want to draw that out a little for dramatic pacing (OMG ESCAPE BEFORE YOU'RE MURDERED BY THE BAT**** CRAZY SISTER IN YOUR SLEEP!)
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Old 2010-09-12, 07:45   Link #17047
Shinso Tsukune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Despite Akua's intentions of taking Moka away, I doubt Tsukune or Moka herself will let her get away with it easily, if its within thier grasp. Once everything is resolved with Tsukune's emo fit, I doubt he'll be letting Moka out of his sight for a while (poor man).
Akuha no doubt at this point has her own goals, which dont follow Fairy Tale and that will put Akuha and Fairy Tale on bad terms, and is trying to get Moka, to most likely join her not forcfully but by being convinced, because of the love she has for Moka, she wouldn't hurt her, i dont really know as of yet if these goals are good or bad, but when Akuha meets Tsukune hes going to effect her greatly, no doubt.

I see Akuha not 1 of the characters to die but to actually be redeemed if not by Akasha in the past but by Tsukune here in the present, Tsukune has never once killed any of his opponents, no matter how evil they were, he only used enough force to take them down, Tsukune's ability to "change" ppls views on the world has already effected, Kurumu, Mizore, Yukari, Moka, Ruby, Hokuto and Kiria

Moka (once hated humans but changed her ways after befriending and falling in love with Tsukune, orginally human)
Kurumu (tried to take Tsukune forcfully against his will but he changed her ways into falling in love with him on fair terms, and making her a good person)
Yukari (used to prank ppl she didnt like but is now more friendly thx to Tsukune)
Ruby (was involved in a plot to destroy the human world along with her master but was changed into a good person by Tsukune)
Mizore (was lonely and was going to take Tsukune by force but was befriended by Tsukune and the rest of the harem)
Hokuto (wanted to destroy the world by destroying the barrier that seperated the human and Youkai worlds but was redeemed by Tsukune)
Kiria (changed and was jealous that Tsukune was able to change Hokuto in such a way but i think is still a pretty bad guy)

Kahlua and Miyabi are unknown, Kahlua will most definetly join her sisters, Miyabi however was just using Kahlua his loyalty probably lies with Fairy Tale, last but not least this leaves Akuha, when Moka and Tsukune escape the Rosary, they will encounter Akuha, which will lead to confrontation between the sisters, Tsukune would probably be on the sidelines, while the reunion between the sisters take place, Akuha will try to apologized what she did to Moka's mother but Moka wont listen leading to an upcoming fight where Moka tries to hurt Akuha for what happened in the past, then Tsukune will step in the way to stop the fight, were Moka gets angry at him but she wont be as brutal after merging with Omote-Moka, but Tsukune tries to convince her to forgive Akuha, than they'll learn what Akuha wants.

My views on Akuha have changed somewhat, but this is what im predicting, which we wont probably see until november or december
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Old 2010-09-12, 10:56   Link #17048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Spoiler for snip:

Well tyranuus, I still think that Tsukune's "power's" are going to be limited by how strong Moka is ... meaning that, since Tsukune source of power, is Moka's vampire blood his power's are probably limited to Moka's strength ... meaning that Tsukune is probably going to be as strong as Moka and only will be able to surpass her .. if one of Moka's weak points are used against her.

Simply saying ... in terms of power ... I doubt that Tsukune is going to be able to surpass Moka, meaning that ... once Tsukune and Moka reach their full potential, the amount of youkai energy that they would have is going to be equal. Though I believe that Moka and Tsukune are going to excel at different fields of combat.

To go to the point the Midou arc in the first Season already implied what is going to be field of expertise for Moka and Tsukune ... after all, as the fight against Midou implied that Moka is quite fast (If we take into consideration the capabilities of a vampire) ... though on the cost of raw power (after all Midou stood up a few times, as if Moka's attacks didn't do any lasting damage to his body) (R+V Season I, chapter 22, pages 18 and 19), while Tsukune was able to knock Midou out with one punch and did quite a lot of damage to the surrounding area as well (R+V Season I, chapter 23, pages 8-9 and 10).

So, I think that if Ikeda keeps this pattern (Moka having a high speed, but low raw power, while Tsukune would have high raw power, but low speed) ... then it would result in Moka and Tsukune needing to support each other in a battle to supplement each others strong points and cover their weaknesses as well, so as long as Ikeda is keeping this pattern I don't think you have to worry about Tsukune becoming a little too strong, since despite him starting to become a transcendent being ... Tsuikune still has some weak points, it's just they aren't related to Tsukune's "race", but how Tsukune's vampire power's have developed within his body , tyranuus.

@Shinso Tsukune

I think you are a little overoptimistic, by thinking that everyone of the major opponents that Tsukune have faced is going to, join his cause later in the story ... since in my opinion that would make the story a little boring. sigh ... Well, at this point I don't think there is a lot of arguments, that we could bring up ... in that particular discussion, ... will see how things go, later in the story ... and see who's the one, who has better deduction skills in that particular area.

Though I agree that Tsukune managed to change how the girls in Tsukune's harem look at some things, and probably managed to change Hokuto and Kiria a little as well, but I don't think ... he will be able to produce the same results with Akua, or some of the enemies he might encounter later in the story.

Last edited by Chris38; 2010-09-12 at 11:08.
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Old 2010-09-12, 11:13   Link #17049
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Tsukune has never once killed any of his opponents, no matter how evil they were
Actually, he killed that centipede dude as I remember. He also almost put Midou down as well (if Im thinking of the right name there). Some of those thugs he fought during the Sun arc may have died as well heh
Admittedly these were the Ghoul personality aspect more than Tsukune-regular, but still, I think if he was ever truly pushed to kill for his beliefs, Tsukune might well do it if there was no other alternative, he's all for peace and harmony, but there are things that are truly sacred to him and he would protect those with every fibre of his being.
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Old 2010-09-12, 12:04   Link #17050
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@Tyranuus
Midou was almost killed when Tsukune went Ghoul he wasnt himself when it happened, as for the centipede dude, Tenmei got to him probably before Tsukune could do any major damage, Tenmei mabye a bit creepy but he wouldn't let that centipede guy die, idk weather or not that dude died or not, so you could be right about that.

@Chris38
yeah i might be little overoptimistic , while i agree with you the Akuha is no doubt one of the major possible opponents or possible allies, her role is that of the eldest loving sister towards Moka, can effect this greatly, i was just trying to get at that Tsukune is gonna have some sort of big effect on her no doubt, but yeah something like that we will have to wait later in the storyline, ill give it a 50/50 chance
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Old 2010-09-12, 12:05   Link #17051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Spoiler for snip:
I think that the centipede guy was just knocked up ... but, since it hasn't been said what happened with him, after he was defeated by Tsukune, then it's possible that he died as well ... indirectly Tsukune already cuased some death's ... like Midou's and Saziou's for example ... when then failed to win against Tsukune and where killed for insubordination ... so it's nor like he has a perfectly clean record in that particular matter.

I think that ... on the matter of killing, Tsukune has a similar viewpoint to Akasha, and like you said tyranuus ... Tsukune won't do something like that, unless it's something absolutely necessary ... and it might be possible that he will be forced to do something like that, in the future.

@Shinso Tsukune

The problem with Akua is that, so far ... she was shown to have feelings only for Moka ... and I don't remember her displaying feelings for anyone else ... apart from that ... Akua had a really dark past, that caused her to be able to kill someone ... without showing anything ... like "killing" is no different to swatting a fly or something similar to that. At the age that Akua was in ... to be able to do something like that ... is certainly abnormal ... and while it's true that Akua is a vampire and probably has a different way of thinking about something like that , I don't think this is something that would be easy for someone to recover from ... not to mention that we still don't know, what has actually caused Akua to start treating Moka a little differently then the rest of her family.

So, while it's possible for Akua to change her ways , I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon, since if the author plans for Akua to change the way she thinks about certain things, he still needs for Akua, to go through a lot of development and pretty much change, most of Akua's character that have been introduced so far ... after all a lot of Akua's personality have been developed through her harsh childhood, so for Akua to change herself ... she has to deny her dark past , and pretty much, start living again, without her past affecting her, and at the current point, I think that Akua is unable to do something like that.

Simply ... her dark past made her into who she is today ... and to change that, she would probably have to complexity deny everything that she through so far ... even if it's possible for her to do, that's a quite extensive change to her character ... and I don't think Akua will be able to do something like that.

Not to mention, we still don't know what is the current relationship with Akua, from Moka's perspective. After all, even when Akua manages to change her character somehow ... it will be all, for nothing, if Moka wouldn't be willing to forgive Akua for her actions as well, so this particular plot element, probably won't be easy to resolve.

Last edited by Chris38; 2010-09-12 at 12:45.
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Old 2010-09-12, 12:48   Link #17052
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Yeah Akuha did have a dark past kinda sad though, i mean the death of her Mother combined with the years of her growing up as an assassin was a bad combo, yeah its gonna be some time before her ways can actually be changed, but something like this is Tsukune's territory so if any1 would be able to "help" Akuha it would be him, but yeah thats gonna be a while before we see results of that happening.

I doubt Moka would want to "help" Akuha though, but we can't actually say that Akuha only had feelings for Moka, just on a personal level, Akuha cared for her sisters and had deep respect for Akasha even if she did try to kill Akasha for her original goal, but we do know that Akasha did reach Akuha's heart as weve seen when Akasha told Akuha that she was a "Fine Onee-San" which calmed Akuha down before she helped Akasha save Moka.
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Old 2010-09-12, 13:06   Link #17053
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Yeah Akuha did have a dark past kinda sad though, i mean the death of her Mother combined with the years of her growing up as an assassin was a bad combo, yeah its gonna be some time before her ways can actually be changed, but something like this is Tsukune's territory so if any1 would be able to "help" Akuha it would be him, but yeah thats gonna be a while before we see results of that happening.

I doubt Moka would want to "help" Akuha though, but we can't actually say that Akuha only had feelings for Moka, just on a personal level, Akuha cared for her sisters and had deep respect for Akasha even if she did try to kill Akasha for her original goal, but we do know that Akasha did reach Akuha's heart as weve seen when Akasha told Akuha that she was a "Fine Onee-San" which calmed Akuha down before she helped Akasha save Moka.
Well ... will see how it will go, after all Tsukune and Akua hadn't even met each other, yet ... so we might be more aware ... of how things will go, once we get to the part, where Moka and Akua are going to reunite with each other and Akua is going to be "properly" introduced to Tsukune, ... and judging from the slow pace the story is developing with ... it's probably still going to be a while, before we finally get to that particular part of the current arc.

Last edited by Chris38; 2010-09-12 at 13:18.
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Old 2010-09-12, 13:22   Link #17054
Shinso Tsukune
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Yeah we will be waiting at least 2 or 3 chapters, the upcoming chapter will focus on Omote-Moka, Ura-Moka and Tsukune within the darkness inside the Rosary.

thats a lot of waiting though
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Old 2010-09-12, 14:25   Link #17055
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Yeah we will be waiting at least 2 or 3 chapters, the upcoming chapter will focus on Omote-Moka, Ura-Moka and Tsukune within the darkness inside the Rosary.

thats a lot of waiting though
Yes ... I definitely agree that the next chapter is going to be about the events within the Rosario and it's definitely going to be something interesting to see as well.

Actually, recently I thought of something, that is unlikely to happen, but well I can't get it out of my mind ... what if Tsukune and Moka are going to kiss (lips on lips .. to be exact) ... inside the Rosario ... I know it probably won't happen ... though I wouldn't mind if Moka and Tsukune actually did a little lips to lips contact, within the seal, since it would be something really nice to see ... not to mention a "therapy" like that, would probably rise Tsukune's spirits ... instantly.
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Old 2010-09-12, 15:54   Link #17056
tyranuus
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lol yep, it'd be nice if he got a hug and a kiss, I thought I heavily implied those in my what ifs....hmmm
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Old 2010-09-12, 16:16   Link #17057
Shinso Tsukune
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Thats also what i wanna see, this next chapter could very well lead to there long awaited kiss scene, acknowledging there love for one another

Even if its inside the Rosary, they'll probably kiss on the outside to, thad probably be at the end though
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Old 2010-09-12, 21:02   Link #17058
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This may be a stupid q: But how the heck did inner moka suduce tsukune??
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Old 2010-09-12, 22:38   Link #17059
Chris38
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Originally Posted by khprincessh View Post
This may be a stupid q: But how the heck did inner moka suduce tsukune??
You mean how she made Tsukune fall in love with her ... it's simple, by being a hot girl ... who despite her being scary ... Tsukune also thought she's beautiful:

Quote:
She's scary, but even this Moka is pretty beautiful
(R+V Season I, chapter 1, page 54 (or close to that), though the pivotal thing that made Tsukune take an intrest in Inner Moka as well (though I think that he has already fallen in love with Inner Moka, before that scene happened) I'm talking about chapter 1 of the Second Season, where Inner Moka has said to Tsukune:

Quote:
If you want to win over Akashiya Moka then you have to win me over too.
(or something similar to that)

... basically she says that if Tsukune wants to be with Outer Moka ... he has to take her in as well ... which is quite an interesting seduction technique that Inner Moka used , and as we have sen in the later chapter's, Tsukune has risen up to take Inner Moka's challenge and tries to make Inner Moka HIS.
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Old 2010-09-12, 23:06   Link #17060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
I think that the centipede guy was just knocked up ...
He's pregnant?! OH MY GOD! Tsukune, I didn't think you were THAT potent. Well all know certain girls would like that from you, but to get a GUY preganant and not even try... How DARE you!


Anyway, the elements of the Seduction of Ura Moka are in place, but I wonder how she will be after she reawakens later on, if she will be easier to win over, as then she probably won't be consumed by her "pride as a vampire" as much.
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