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Old 2010-11-15, 05:23   Link #18241
Tsuyoshi
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Exactly, not to mention Akasha. Which is why I'm saying other vampires wouldn't be much different from Akuha in their base form from a physical standpoint.
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Old 2010-11-15, 05:40   Link #18242
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Wong Ling used Sacrifice skill but yeah it doesn't works , no way Akuha will die soon .

Fortunately Touhai saved her and he will kick some ass(or not , we still don't know how much Akuha is strong)
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Old 2010-11-15, 05:59   Link #18243
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Well considering the fact that both Tsukune and Moka have Shinso blood in their veins ... it shouldn't come as a surprise that they have superior physical capabilities, compared to ordinary vampires ... even if both Moka's and Tsukune's Shinso power's haven't been awakened ... yet.

I'm starting to think that even the presence of the Shinso blood in Tsukune's and Moka's veins is making Tsukune or Moka far superior compared to ordinary vampires, even if their Shinso blood's power haven't been fully released... evidenced by the fact that Tsukune's or Moka's physical capabilities or a little superior compared to ordinary vampires like Akua....

After all, even if the power of Moka's or Tsukune's Shinso blood haven't been released yet, it is still present in Moka's or Tsukune's veins and I'm quite positive that it is affecting both Tsukune's and Moka's growth ... if you want to look for evidence .... you just have to look back at the beginning of the R+V manga and see how much Tsukune has changed compared to that time ... and since Moka has received her Shinso blood, when she was ... a lot younger then Tsukune ... it has probably affected her development a lot more compared to Tsukune....

Simply saying I belive that even if Moka and Tsukune's Shinso power's haven't "awakened" yet .... the Shinso blood present in their veins is already affecting them, which is probably the reason why Tsukune's and Moka's physical capabilities are a little superior compared to Akua...

Still, I believe that ,based on what we have seen so far, about Moka's or Tsukune's capabilities .... and, what Akua is capable of, both Moka and Tsukune would have a hard time defeating Akua ... without releasing their Shinso power's .... and currently there is nothing suggesting that Tsukune will be able to keep his sanity if he does something like that, not to mention the whole problem of Outer Moka disappearing without the Rosario .... though, for now ... it seems that the plot of the current arc isin't going to proceed in that direction .... since it seems that Tohou Fuhai will be capable of making Akua retreat ... this time, since I have no doubt, that Akua is going to reappear in one of the future arcs, where both Moka and Tsukune will be a little stronger ... and probably capable of taking care of Akua on their own...
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Old 2010-11-15, 06:37   Link #18244
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There's no telling where Tsukune stands yet with his Shinso powers. When he can make full use of his powers, I have no doubt he will at least be as powerful as Moka because by the time that happens, I imagine he'll fully be converted to a Shinso Vampire. Right now, however, I don't know if he's better than other normal Vampires physically. We don't have any way to prove this since he hasn't fount against another Vampire after Kahlua, and they fought before Tsukune started training with Moka iirc.

I should also mention that even when Moka released her Shinso powers (what power she can while she's still under the effects of the seal), Kahlua was still on equal footing with her, so it's safe to say that right now, Tsukune wouldn't be able to match a normal vampire even after he gains full control of his power. When Moka's seal is released, however, that's bound to change because Moka can only use so much power because of it, and that's affecting Tsukune as well due to the synchronization of their blood. I would say Moka's and Tsukune's growth are tied together also because of the synchronization. How strong Tsukune becomes depends on how strong Moka becomes and vice versa. We won't be seeing the full implications of this until Tsukune gains full control of his powers though.

As they are now, it's practically impossible for them to beat Akuha. Her physical strength and speed are likely to be on par with Kahlua, but her attacks are far more lethal and she has more battle experience as well, being an Assassin since she was ver young. As I said before, Moka tied with Kahlua even with her Shinso abilities, so she wouldn't fare any better against Akuha right now. When Moka first released her powers, she had no such limitations so she was much stronger back then. Should she be able to use her full powers again now, then I really think she could topple Akuha pretty easily even on her own. As for Tsukune, it's still too early for him to really try making use of the full Shinso powers and discard his own seal because he hasn't gained full control of it. I'm starting to think there's a further requirement to using the full power of Moka's blood for him, and there's more to it than simple training too.
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Old 2010-11-15, 07:31   Link #18245
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@Tsuyoshi

I agree with you on everything that you mentioned in you're post ... since it makes sense ... after all the reason why Tsukune has developed his own vampire abilities was because Moka has injected her blood into his veins, so it's pretty natural that the development of Tsukune's abilities, depends on the development of Moka's power's...

I think that the requirement that Tsukune has to do first, before he could even begin trying to take control over his Shinso abilities ... , is Tsukune bringing his "berserk side" under his control, which isn't something that Tsukune will be capable of achieving ... if he just trains how to use and control his vampire abilities, even though Tsukune training in using his vampire power's ... is definitely going to help Tsukune in bringing his "berserk side" under his control, but I don't think that, with just that, Tsukune will be capable of controlling his "berserk side", which is more of a mental problem rather then something else...

I mean that ... Tsukune's "berserk vampire state" is representing the instincts and nature of a vampire, which vampires are naturally attuned with, but since Tsukune was originally human ... he has to somehow learn to do that as well... and while training his abilities and using them is going to make Tsukune more attuned to his ... vampire nature, I don't think think that is going to be enough to bring that side of his being under his control...

At least that's what I think, might be the first step that Tsukune is going to need to do ... to be able to fully use his Shinso abilities, but there might be something else that Tsukune is going to need to do, which is going to be revealed later in the manga....

After all... it's a process of transforming a normal ordinary human ... into a vampire, and even if ... it isn't a complete transformation... since, so far it doesn't seem like Tsukune is going to lose his humanity in the process... at least it would be a pretty bad thing... if he did, but still... based upon what we have seen so far, the process that Tsukune is going through isn't easy... so I wouldn't be really surprised if some... other complications, related to Tsukune's vampire transformation, appeared later in the manga...
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Old 2010-11-15, 07:38   Link #18246
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My thoughts on this.....

Tsukune will eventually take full control over his Vamp/Shinso form or better known as his "beserker side", thats the important thing, but, its gonna take time.

But, will probably require his Shinso blood to fully awaken, of course.

As for Akuha, she is more powerful than Kahlua, but she will be weaker than Touhou, since Hougetsu Jigen Tou is her signature technique, she will be fighting the one person who brought that technique into existence, so i have no doubt she would lose.

I think Touhou is just gonna smack Akuha around, for hurting his children.
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Old 2010-11-15, 08:11   Link #18247
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I find it funny you guys seem to belive 100% that he has shinso blood. im sure theres a good chance but atleast put "if he has" until we know for sure
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Old 2010-11-15, 08:13   Link #18248
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For the requirement, I was actually thinking more along the lines of embracing the fact that he's a vampire and accepting the condition to stay next to Moka forever. He has confessed to her now so he might well have fulfilled that condition. For him to make full use of his powers, he has to acknowledge his new existence as a Vampire who will live next to Moka as well as a human being who is in love with her. Now by this, I don't mean he will lose his humanity. His character will remain the same in the way he thinks and acts, but his existence has changed from that of a human to that of a Vampire. He needs his humanity to dominate his berkerker nature, and accepting that other side of him is neccessary for him to do that. As long as he denies it, he won't be able to control it well because he's essentially denying part of his new existence.

@Shinso Tsukune: I don't think the Shinso blood in him and Moka needs to fully awaken for him to take full control of it. In fact, if the blood fully awakens before Tsukune learns how to control it, before he acknowledges that part of what makes his new existence, then his humanity won't be ready to handle the power and he will be lost forever. His humanity isn't able to accept the part that makes him a monster without the seal if it can't even accept it when Moka's seal is keeping it at bay. But I think now that he's seen what Moka is like without the seal and was still able to confess to her after seeing her full power and vampire nature, I believe it will be easier for him to accept that power within himself as well and gain dominance over it.

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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
I find it funny you guys seem to belive 100% that he has shinso blood. im sure theres a good chance but atleast put "if he has" until we know for sure
I've been thinking that a Shinso vampire is another type of vampire altogether and that's why it's neccessary to gain the blood of a Shinso rather than be gifted with it thanks to inheritence. Think of them as Vampires among Vampires. As mentioned earlier, Shinso Vampires exhibit a different set of powers from normal ones. Moka hasn't been shown to be able to transform, and it's doubtful she can do it considering how many fights she's been in and had plenty of opportunities to show her real powers. Akasha as well, she did not transform when she had every reason to use her full powers against Alucard in the flashback. Instead, their physical attributes increase dramatically instead, giving them superio battle capabilities. Normal Vampires haven't been show to have any such things, but they are said to be able to transform into an alternate, more monstruous versions of themselves. To me, they sound completely different from each other but it's pretty safe to say Shinso Vampires are typically superior, and Vampires can only become Shinso Vampires by taking their blood, much the same way humans become vampires by taking their blood. That being said, Moka was turned into a superior Shinso Vampire right after she was born and has all the powers of a Shinso Vampire if you compare her to Akasha. Tsukune has Moka's blood, not just any other vampire's blood, which is why it's safer to say he has Shinso blood rather than normal Vampire blood.
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Old 2010-11-15, 09:02   Link #18249
Shinso Tsukune
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
I find it funny you guys seem to belive 100% that he has shinso blood. im sure theres a good chance but atleast put "if he has" until we know for sure
Tsukune has the Shinso blood, there are no doubts about this anymore, there really is no reason to why he shouldn't, besides, Moka is a Shinso, and she gave her blood to Tsukune, and than he became a Shinso as well.

Tsukune, is the only person in the series, who perfectly fits the description, on how Shinso are made.

NOTE: Tsukune's "beserker side", is actually his Vamp/Shinso form, just not controlled though, he already transformed when he went "ghoul-like" in the first season, the proof that Tsukune has the Shinso blood, was explained in chapter 31, when Akuha told Moka about the Shinso.
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Old 2010-11-15, 15:07   Link #18250
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Touhou Fuhai, will beat Akuha, no doubts.
That...is up to debate. As a child she gave Akasha a run for her money. The old dude has a tough fight ahead, and he knows it.

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Well, its either that or sending them to another dimension where they cannot be harmed.

He is the master of dimensions, after all, but i guess we will have wait and see.

Probably related to the Hougetsu Jigen Tou technique.
I think he just threw them in the next room, threw a sheet over them and bluffed a little.

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Tsukune has the Shinso blood, there are no doubts about this anymore, there really is no reason to why he shouldn't, besides, Moka is a Shinso, and she gave her blood to Tsukune, and than he became a Shinso as well.

Tsukune, is the only person in the series, who perfectly fits the description, on how Shinso are made.

NOTE: Tsukune's "beserker side", is actually his Vamp/Shinso form, just not controlled though, he already transformed when he went "ghoul-like" in the first season, the proof that Tsukune has the Shinso blood, was explained in chapter 31, when Akuha told Moka about the Shinso.
The question is whether or not being human will be a factor. He may be a more "pure-blooded" shinso or a new hybrid. Either way, he is going to kick major ass at a high price.
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:11   Link #18251
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Well there is still a lot of stuff that we don't know about Tsukune's transformation, so I don't think we can look too deeply into the topic of what Tsukune is going to become as a result of his transformation...

Still, I agree with you DragoZERO that Tsukune is going to become more similar to a Shinso vampire, but at the same time I think that Tsukune will still be able to retain his humanity ... meaning that Tsukune will still be considered partially human ... at the end of his vampire transformation (that's of course, if we consider that the current Tsukune is still considered partially human, since that's one of the things that haven't been explained, yet).

Basically ... what I mean to say is that, in my opinion, Tsukune is going to become some type of Shinso vampire - human hybrid, since if Tsukune fully transformed into a vampire... he would... most likely start becoming affected by the typical weaknesses of vampires... becoming weaker then he currently is...

... but from the way I see there is still some things that Tsukune would need to do, before he is going to be able to take control over his Shinso power's...

- the first one would be Tsukune bringing his "vampire nature" under his control...

- and the second one would be consisting of Tsukune accepting his "vampire nature" ... where one of the things that Tsukune is going to do is realizing the differences between him and ordinary people... especially his family (which is probably going to be combined with Tsukune's family ... learning about the secrets that Tsukune is currently hiding, which is probably going to be a... pretty troublesome situation...
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:15   Link #18252
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Akasha wasn't even trying to attack Akuha then when they fought. Like Fuhai said when they watched the memory record of the fight - Akasha could never fight against someone she regarded as a daughter.

When Akasha went on the offensive against Alucard, the look on Akuha's face said, "Oh shi- If she had hit me, I would have been screwed!" Her best trump card attack did NOTHING to Alucard but Akasha's one kick literally disintergrated the freaking monster tentacle. Akuha realized she was genuinely and exponentially outclassed by Akasha. One does not take on the leader of the power trio that saved the Youkai world from a great evil without being at least comparable with the same 'great evil' that they've already defeated or you're just wasting their time. j

She knows that if she takes on a Dark Lord, that she'll have to be fully prepared - she now knows first hand what the power of a Dark Lord is truly like and it's nothing like what the youkai running around nowadays have going for them.
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:16   Link #18253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
That...is up to debate. As a child she gave Akasha a run for her money. The old dude has a tough fight ahead, and he knows it.
Akuha only gave Akasha a run for her money because Akasha wasn't using her Shinso powers at all. Doing that would've caused Alucard to wake up, and that's the exact opposite of what she was after. It's pretty obvious that when Akasha used her Shinso powers, she was far superior to Akuha. Consider that Moka blew Akuha across the room with just one kick. Unless you think Moka was stronger than her mother when she was but 10, I highly doubt Akuha could've stood a chance against Akasha if they both went all out.
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:19   Link #18254
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i agree with Chris hes going to be a shinso but then again since hes still seemingly partially human he might just be the first of his kind
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:23   Link #18255
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
Akuha only gave Akasha a run for her money because Akasha wasn't using her Shinso powers at all. Doing that would've caused Alucard to wake up, and that's the exact opposite of what she was after. It's pretty obvious that when Akasha used her Shinso powers, she was far superior to Akuha. Consider that Moka blew Akuha across the room with just one kick. Unless you think Moka was stronger than her mother when she was but 10, I highly doubt Akuha could've stood a chance against Akasha if they both went all out.
Yeah...and Touhou (sp?) is not a shinso.
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:29   Link #18256
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... but he seems to be some pretty powerful youkai as well, since I don't think that there would be much youkai that would be able to live for approximately 200 years .... without any change in their appearance, not to mention that he is the creator of such an awesome technique as the Dimensional Sword, which says something about how strong he really is... even if Tohou Fuhai isn't a Shinso vampire...
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:31   Link #18257
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He's not one of the three Dark Lords for his looks...
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:46   Link #18258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Yeah...and Touhou (sp?) is not a shinso.
But he's still a Dark Lord. As I explained earlier, the fact he hasn't aged one bit since the time he fought Alucard (if you consider the flashback) makes me wonder if the title of Dark Lord is more than just a title, which is what Fuhai-sensei earlier suggested. He's also the creator of the very technique Akuha specializes in. His stamina, which is the attribute Akuha boasted about earlier, should thus be far greater than Akuha's when using that technique. The fact he hasn't aged is also a hint that he has great restorative abilities and endurance, tho doubtfully on par with a Shinso.
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:57   Link #18259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
But he's still a Dark Lord. As I explained earlier, the fact he hasn't aged one bit since the time he fought Alucard (if you consider the flashback) makes me wonder if the title of Dark Lord is more than just a title, which is what Fuhai-sensei earlier suggested. He's also the creator of the very technique Akuha specializes in. His stamina, which is the attribute Akuha boasted about earlier, should thus be far greater than Akuha's when using that technique. The fact he hasn't aged is also a hint that he has great restorative abilities and endurance, tho doubtfully on par with a Shinso.
Going to have to agree with you. When a person reaches such a high level that they basically stop aging that in itself is a sign of their power. I highly doubt that Akuha to beat someone who not only invented the technique that she herself is so proud of but is considered to be at the top tier in the monster world. He doesn't hold the title of a Dark Lord for no reason. On top of that he has what 200 years more experience than Akuha. Even if he is not a Shinso he is still the real deal and if i were AKuha i would know when im out of my league and call it a day. Plus Touhou said specifically that he can not let what she did pass considering what Akuha did to his grand daughter. This is also a personal fight now and i dont see him holding back. If she is serious she better bring her A game or its going to be game over.
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Old 2010-11-15, 17:58   Link #18260
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Akua wants to get to Moka but even if she fights Touhou Fuhai she will probably not be able to find her. I'm guessing Akua will just kidnap Yukari and tells Fuhai to have Moka meet her somewhere.. just my prediction anyways.
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