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Old 2011-05-06, 06:53   Link #19901
Shinso Tsukune
Moka X Tsukune
 
 
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Ikeda could always use the method to where Touhou passes his Youjutsu knowledge to Tsukune, since the training Arc is going by fast.
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Old 2011-05-06, 07:45   Link #19902
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
There's a difference between barriers and what Tsukune was learning with Ruby/Moka. Yes, Tsukune is a fast learner, but back then, he was training to control the power he already has. It was more difficult for him to do that because he had a human body, but that's not the case anymore. Nonetheless, the ability to use his Youki like he did in previous training sessions and the ability to sense the presence of others, those are all natural Vampire abilities. Moka explained as well that Vampires have the greatest skill in sensing others compared to other Ayashi. I have no doubt in my mind that learning to control those powers will be a walk in the park for him now, but as you said earlier, there's also the mental aspects of his training, which may cause the training to take a while longer.

Forming barriers is different however. While Vampires can learn to use them, they're not abilities that Vampires acquire naturally, like their super strength and spirit awareness. Those are abilities that people like Mikogami and Fuhai-sensei are better suited to because of the type of Youkai they are (I don't know about Mikogami but there's a really good chance that Fuhai-sensei is the same as Fong Fong considering Fuhai-sensei sported a third eye for a brief time, not unlike Fong Fong, and Fong Fong's father is also someone who uses seals and sorcery, so I can only guess that it runs in the family). That being said, it may take more time because Tsukune isn't naturally suited for that type of ability. If he learns anything at all, I doubt it'll be anything above basic barriers.
I think that this particular problem - in short that a vampires (and Tsukune) aren't predisposed on using barrier techniques, was the thing that the human modification ritual was originally intended to resolve, in short that Tsukune's body wasn't predisposed to be able to use youkai techniques(which, as I said earlier, barrier forming techniques qualify to) and Tsukune didn't have enough time to be able to learn how to use youkai techniques by using the normal way - which is basically what you brought up in you're post Tsuyoshi, but I believe the human modification ritual has already resolved that by forcefully modifying Tsukune's body so that it would have a better predisposition to youkai techniques, shortening the time that Tsukune is going to need to learn them. (Reread chapter 39 of the second season, more specifically pages 19 and 20 if you want confirmation)

Of course, Tsukune's vampire powers going out of control, is something that Tohou Fuhai didn't count on, and we still don't know how effective the ritual has been, but since Tohou Fuhai managed to insert most of the needles into Tsukune, before Tsukune's vampire blood awakened, causing the ritual to not go as planned, but since, in chapter 41 Tohou Fuhai has managed to insert the last needle into Tsukune, completing the ritual, I believe that Tsukune's current body is better suited to youkai techniques, shortening the time that Tsukune would need to learn them.

Shortly speaking, I think that Tsukune's current body has been artistically modified so that it would be better suited to use youkai techniques - shortening the time that Tsukune is going to need to learn them.

Last edited by Chris38; 2011-05-06 at 07:55.
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Old 2011-05-06, 08:13   Link #19903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Spoiler for long post:
Hmmm, I always had it in my head that the purpose for the ritual was to create proper channels in his body through which the Vampire powers could flow more freely, something Tsukune's previous body didn't have. Perhaps with Fuhai-sensei's energy in his body, you might have a point, but Tsukune's latest transformation implies that he's certainly Vampire above anything else at this stage. Also, the ability to turn Youkai to strength as well as spirit awareness are also Youkai techniques just like Fuhai-sensei's barrier techniques. They are simply of a different nature. I see Tsukune more as a fighter type than a barrier type as well. Anyways, next chapter will let us now. God, May, end soon D=
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Old 2011-05-06, 09:51   Link #19904
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
Hmmm, I always had it in my head that the purpose for the ritual was to create proper channels in his body through which the Vampire powers could flow more freely, something Tsukune's previous body didn't have. Perhaps with Fuhai-sensei's energy in his body, you might have a point, but Tsukune's latest transformation implies that he's certainly Vampire above anything else at this stage. Also, the ability to turn Youkai to strength as well as spirit awareness are also Youkai techniques just like Fuhai-sensei's barrier techniques. They are simply of a different nature. I see Tsukune more as a fighter type than a barrier type as well. Anyways, next chapter will let us now. God, May, end soon D=
Well, that's true, and since Tsukune has the blood of a Shinso vampire in his veins I certainly agree that Tsukune's powers are the same as the powers of a Shinso vampire, even if Tsukune is currently, still unable to fully control them.

For now, the only thing that we can be certain about is that, regardless of the developments that Tsukune is still going to undergo in the current training arc, everything that happened (and is still going to happen) is done to allow Tsukune to fight with Akua, who is probably going to be the first opponent that Tsukune is going to be fighting on his own - since, I doubt that Hokuto and Kiria are going to do anything to help Tsukune and his comrades in the raid on Fairy Tale's HQ, since they probably have their own objectives to fulfill, and without Inner Moka, who naturally wouldn't be able to help Tsukune in the raid on Fairy Tale's HQ, there is no one else who would be able to lend Tsukune their assistance in his fight with Akua - at least it would be pretty anticlimactic, if something like that occurred, after all the development that Tsukune has underwent.

So, I hope that Ikeda won't disappoint us, and make the fight against Akua and Tsukune pretty good. Furthermore I hope that it won't take just a single chapter to resolve the fight between Tsukune and Akua, but it will take some more time. (I assume that, 2 to 3 chapters of the "actual" fight, between Tsukune and Akua would be enough) - I also, hope that, despite not bring capable of lending Tsukune her assistance, Moka is still going to be a witness to the fight between Akua and Tsukune (preferably in her Inner Moka personality, but that has a small chance of occurring) .
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Old 2011-05-06, 09:57   Link #19905
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
So, I hope that Ikeda won't disappoint us, and make the fight against Akua and Tsukune pretty good. Furthermore I hope that it won't take just a single chapter to resolve the fight between Tsukune and Akua, but it will take some more time. (I assume that, 2 to 3 chapters of the "actual" fight, between Tsukune and Akua would be enough) - I also, hope that, despite not bring capable of lending Tsukune her assistance, Moka is still going to be a witness to the fight between Akua and Tsukune (preferably in her Inner Moka personality, but that has a small chance of occurring) .
2 chapters would be enough for me, cuz that means two months for the fight's resolution to take place. That's a bit long for me
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Old 2011-05-06, 10:13   Link #19906
Chris38
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2 chapters would be enough for me, cuz that means two months for the fight's resolution to take place. That's a bit long for me
Well, unfortunately there is still going to be sometime, before the actual fight is going to begin - I assume that it's going to take 3 chapters, at least, before we get to the actual fight (one chapter for the resolution of the current training arc, and the two next ones, would contain, what happens to Moka, while Tsukune and the rest of his group are preparing to raid Fairy Tale's HQ, and the chapter after that would be about the beginning stages of the raid on Fairy Tale's HQ.)

Naturally, it all depends, if Ikeda isn't going to do something that will prolong the current training arc, since if he doesn't, I believe that the current training arc is going to end in the next chapter. It's not that I have anything against it, but it's just that the actual raid on Fairy Tale's HQ should be a lot more interesting - or rather, I think that I have had enough "romance drama" for some time.

Last edited by Chris38; 2011-05-06 at 10:23.
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Old 2011-05-06, 10:54   Link #19907
Shinso Tsukune
Moka X Tsukune
 
 
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Well, unfortunately there is still going to be sometime, before the actual fight is going to begin - I assume that it's going to take 3 chapters, at least, before we get to the actual fight (one chapter for the resolution of the current training arc, and the two next ones, would contain, what happens to Moka, while Tsukune and the rest of his group are preparing to raid Fairy Tale's HQ, and the chapter after that would be about the beginning stages of the raid on Fairy Tale's HQ.)

Naturally, it all depends, if Ikeda isn't going to do something that will prolong the current training arc, since if he doesn't, I believe that the current training arc is going to end in the next chapter. It's not that I have anything against it, but it's just that the actual raid on Fairy Tale's HQ should be a lot more interesting - or rather, I think that I have had enough "romance drama" for some time.
I agree with this, i'm really hoping the Training Arc ends next chapter, all that suspense is building up and your thinking "omfg, will this hurry up and get to the good stuff, i wanna see what happens! ", though i'm happy that Tsukune finally got a big power-up and all, which he can use to whip FT's ass, but i also agree that the Rescue Moka Arc is going to be very interesting.

But even though i feel that way, Ikeda makes a great series!
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Old 2011-05-06, 12:14   Link #19908
HayashiTakara
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I notice that a lot are saying that Tsukune is unable to use his powers, but we don't know that. The point of the modification was so that he can utilize it fully.
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Old 2011-05-06, 12:40   Link #19909
Chris38
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
I notice that a lot are saying that Tsukune is unable to use his powers, but we don't know that. The point of the modification was so that he can utilize it fully.
As I mentioned in my discussion with Tsuyoshi, I don't believe that upgrading Tsukune's vampire powers was Tohou Fuhai's original intention , but yje purpose of the modification ritual was to make Tsukune's body capable of using youkai techniques. Naturally, the ritual also caused the vampire blood sleeping within Tsukune to react, which resulted in the ritual not going as Tohou Fuhai intended.

Furthermore, the ritual only amplified Tsukune's physical capabilities so the amount of power that Tsukune is capable of controlling and using, has remained the same as it was, before Tsukune underwent Tohou Fuhai's modification ritual. After all, there hasn't been anything mentioned about the ritual probably changed anything in Tsukune's mentality - shortly speaking it means that the effect that, the awakening of Tsukune's vampire blood has remained the same - you know that it starts consuming Tsukune's human consciousness, which is basically the reason why Tsukune might have to undergo some training in using his vampire powers, since with his "new body" Tsukune is probably, capable of producing a lot more youkai energy then he is capable of controlling with his human consciousness, which naturally means that until he manages to gain control over that, it could be more easy for him to lose control over himself - making it more difficult for Tsukune to retain his human consciousness.

At least that's what I think...
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Old 2011-05-06, 14:30   Link #19910
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Just a heads up, chapter 2 of my fic has been posted. This one was quite fun to write Not that the first one wasn't.
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Old 2011-05-06, 15:58   Link #19911
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Hmm, looking at it, and Tsukune's power base, I was just thinking that he could learn something other than barrier techniques or the Jigen-Tou. If Touhou knows what Tsukune is capable of, and knows he can use the youki sensor, Tsukune could end up being trained in combining the use of that sensor skill with a technique that could neutralize the Jigen-tou.

If it were possible that this modification heightened Tsukune's awareness of youki around him, he might be able to learn a kind of technique that would allow him to "break" Akua's technique costing her lots of energy every time he breaks it. If her technique is like a sword, then he can develop a "sword breaker" technique by exploiting energy weaknesses in the Jigen-tou sword, thus keeping the fight interesting as he would be vulnerable to a direct hit, and she would run the risk of one of his attacks getting through. It could also knock out her defenses temporarily if he were to use that when she phases her body to defend, as his hit would punch through her defense using the same tactic of exploiting weak points in energy distribution.

Like how Kurumu broke though the barrier, Tsukune might be able to learn to do that too, if not use it to keep Akua distracted a while. If by chance Tsukune manages to wear out Akua to end the fight, then it's game over for her, but she will live to fight another day, as it tends to be for Tsukune's opponents.
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Old 2011-05-06, 20:53   Link #19912
kenjiharima
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I like Tsukune learning massive explosions like DBZ since he's going super ghoul mode.
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Old 2011-05-06, 23:55   Link #19913
Chris38
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Originally Posted by GrrDraxin View Post
Hmm, looking at it, and Tsukune's power base, I was just thinking that he could learn something other than barrier techniques or the Jigen-Tou. If Touhou knows what Tsukune is capable of, and knows he can use the youki sensor, Tsukune could end up being trained in combining the use of that sensor skill with a technique that could neutralize the Jigen-tou.

If it were possible that this modification heightened Tsukune's awareness of youki around him, he might be able to learn a kind of technique that would allow him to "break" Akua's technique costing her lots of energy every time he breaks it. If her technique is like a sword, then he can develop a "sword breaker" technique by exploiting energy weaknesses in the Jigen-tou sword, thus keeping the fight interesting as he would be vulnerable to a direct hit, and she would run the risk of one of his attacks getting through. It could also knock out her defenses temporarily if he were to use that when she phases her body to defend, as his hit would punch through her defense using the same tactic of exploiting weak points in energy distribution.

Like how Kurumu broke though the barrier, Tsukune might be able to learn to do that too, if not use it to keep Akua distracted a while. If by chance Tsukune manages to wear out Akua to end the fight, then it's game over for her, but she will live to fight another day, as it tends to be for Tsukune's opponents.
Well, it remains to be seen what Ikeda is going to do, certainly you have given a nice possible technique, which Tsukune could learn to use, to fight against Akua., but, since I don't think that Tsukune and his comrades have a lot of time to prepare, and you're technique seems to be as advanced as the Jigen-tou is, and the Jigen-tou is probably a lot more complicated then barrier forming techniques - Well, it remains to be seen, how Ikeda is going to proceed with Tsukune's training, which is probably something that will be revealed in the next chapter.

Speaking about Tsukune, I think that he might have more control over his powers then I thought, since if you compare the current 3 time when Tsukune turned into his "berserk form", you can certainly see some differences.

After all, in his "first berserk form" Tsukune has been fighting - or rather, trying to slaughter everyone around him ( of course,apart from Inner Moka), without taking notice, if they are enemies or his friends - certainly evident by Tsukune attacking Kurumu.

In the second time Tsukune's "Ghoul" has emerged, you could already see some progress, since while Tsukune still had the "maniacal laughter" that he had in his first "berserk form", but unlike the first time you could say that Tsukune's "berserk side" has went through some progress, since it hadn't harmed any of the girls and concentrated only on beating the spiderman and Doppelganger - not to mention that he was distracted by Kurumu''s breasts, which has given Ruby and Yukari enough time to get Tsukune back to normal.

Now, in his latest "berserk form", you definitively see some progress compared to the previous two times of Tsukune's powers going out of control, since in the first place Tsukune haven't shown any sprouts of maniacal laughter , he has been mostly silent - well apart from a occasional grunt or two. Certainly he lashed out at Kurumu and attacked Tohou Fuhai, but after he has given Tohou Fuhai his "air punch", Tsukune ... in his "berserk form" stopped being interested in him (as if too say that he didn't consider Tohou Fuhai as a threat anymore, and spent the rest of his time, by just looking at Kurumu, which is certainly different then what he would do, if it was still Tsukune's "first Ghoul form", which would continue lashing out at Kurumu (or beating up Tohou Fuhai) without taking notice, not to mention I certainly don't think that Tsukune's " first berserk form" would be able to do something, like standing still and just look at Kurumu.

Shortly speaking, Tsukune's "third berserk form" was behaving almost like a human does, and while I wouldn't say that Tsukune has gained complete control over his "berserk side", there probably isn't much he still has to do, to gain control over that side of his being.

Of course, it's probably going to take some time, before Tsukune's powers go out of control again, but I'm starting to think that it's possible that Tsukune might have more control over his vampire powers, then I assumed in my previous post.
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Old 2011-05-07, 00:01   Link #19914
Magin
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Or... y'know, Tsukune could always have a... SUPEEEEEEER FALCON PUUUUUUUUUNCHHHHHH!!! that lets him break through Akua's Jigen-tou...

*is shot*
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Old 2011-05-07, 04:56   Link #19915
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Or... y'know, Tsukune could always have a... SUPEEEEEEER FALCON PUUUUUUUUUNCHHHHHH!!! that lets him break through Akua's Jigen-tou...

*is shot*
That would be epic to see on Tsukune's side.

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Old 2011-05-07, 14:05   Link #19916
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na more like ALUCAAARD!~ PUNCH!-
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Old 2011-05-07, 14:09   Link #19917
Shinso Tsukune
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na more like ALUCAAARD!~ PUNCH!-
Akua: OH SH~~ (after Jigen-Tou fails)
Tsukune: FALCON PUNCH!!!

Alucard: *RAWR* 'OH SH~~" (after Absorption fails)
Tsukune: FALCON PUNCH!!!

Tsukune: BITCHEZ DON'T KNOW I'M SHINSO, I'M TOTALLY A BEAST!
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Old 2011-05-07, 15:32   Link #19918
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I hope it's a little bit more drawn out than that, I'd rather have Tsukune wear her down, if he can, and then deliver the finishing blow. Or maybe he recovers from the Jigentou, and Akuha realizes she can't troll him as she did everyone else (save for Fuhai). Then she'd have to rely on her other skills, rather than the usual one-hit kill. That's what I've noticed in a lot of these fights, they're all usually decided with one single blow. Hopefully the fight between Tsukune and Akuha changes that. Well, one can only hope. Until then...
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Old 2011-05-07, 21:54   Link #19919
kenjiharima
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Ok weird theories lol...Ben10 cartoons he can control his alien forms. Wonder if there will be a new holy lock that will be put on Tsukune to control his ghoul/vamp forms like Ben's watch gizmo.
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Old 2011-05-07, 22:00   Link #19920
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Highly unlikely because he hasn't worn out his current lock yet... that we know of.
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