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View Poll Results: Claymore - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 166 69.46%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 50 20.92%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 5.86%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 1.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.42%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.42%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.42%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.84%
Voters: 239. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-06-16, 04:05   Link #301
Bloodseeker
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Originally Posted by SimplyEd View Post
Yes, that is all well and good. I, as a former translator and avid fan of the manga for years now, know about your sentiments towards that masterpiece just fine.

Yet, there are still people out there who don't know jack about it, or those who know about and still don't like it very much.
It can be a very disturbing experience, and that's not suited to everybodies needs.
Regardless of how weak they are to gore, great storytelling is something that can be enjoyed by almost everybody. And if they're enjoying Claymore, then they'll probably like Berserk's atmosphere as well. (though the massive scale and complexity of the conflict, the development of the setting, and the overall epicness of the story are on a level that Claymore hasn't even come close to reaching yet, and the Claymore anime isn't anywhere near as bloody as the Berserk manga)
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Old 2007-06-16, 05:40   Link #302
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Nope. Because I prefer female lead.

And I thought almost all series, manga is always bloodier than in anime.
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Old 2007-06-16, 07:15   Link #303
SimplyEd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodseeker View Post
Regardless of how weak they are to gore, great storytelling is something that can be enjoyed by almost everybody. And if they're enjoying Claymore, then they'll probably like Berserk's atmosphere as well. (though the massive scale and complexity of the conflict, the development of the setting, and the overall epicness of the story are on a level that Claymore hasn't even come close to reaching yet, and the Claymore anime isn't anywhere near as bloody as the Berserk manga)


Yet again, using another story as reference material for a completely different one won't get you very far at all.
Berserk is Berserk and Claymore is Claymore. Just as easy as that. Both stories have enough merits going for themselves.
Comparisons will ultimately only cloud your mind for something you might otherwise have enjoyed.
Of course there will always be stories that i'll like more than others but, for my own interest, i'll try to look at them seperately as best as possible, so as to not spoil my own fun or come to biased prejudices in the end.

No offense, 'kay. In the end, the only thing that will matter is what actually managed to entertain you. Still, that doesn't make the "apple" better than the "orange".
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Old 2007-06-16, 10:25   Link #304
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Originally Posted by Bloodseeker View Post
And if they're enjoying Claymore, then they'll probably like Berserk's atmosphere as well. (though the massive scale and complexity of the conflict, the development of the setting, and the overall epicness of the story are on a level that Claymore hasn't even come close to reaching yet, and the Claymore anime isn't anywhere near as bloody as the Berserk manga)
Erm... please excuse me, but you must be kidding. With the end of the Band of the Hawks arc, and the beginning of the Lovecraft-ish Cthulhu-style mess, the Berserk storyline deteriorated terribly. There is no massive scale of anything in Berserk, because the main character - Gatts - is just way too primitive and straightforward for anything really complex.

Now don't get me wrong, Berserk is still a classic and a very enjoyable manga. But it's completely lacking what Claymore has: A clearly progressing multilayered storyline. With Claymore, I can clearly see what the mangaka is trying to tell, and I can even assess where we are in the progress of the drama arc (right now, very much in the middle). Nothing of this is possible in Berserk post-Hawks, simply because Gatts is stumbling from one slaughter into the other, possessed by "Kill Griffith" and "Rescue Casca". There are nearly no lasting changes in the main characters. There are no long-range developments. There's nearly no connection between most arcs at all. But, of course, alot of action, alot of testosterone, and alot of blood.

No, from the quality of the narration, Berserk and Claymore certainly do not compare. But, the other way round than you indicated (at least IMHO)
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Old 2007-06-16, 11:35   Link #305
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Bloodseeker View Post
Regardless of how weak they are to gore, great storytelling is something that can be enjoyed by almost everybody. And if they're enjoying Claymore, then they'll probably like Berserk's atmosphere as well. (though the massive scale and complexity of the conflict, the development of the setting, and the overall epicness of the story are on a level that Claymore hasn't even come close to reaching yet, and the Claymore anime isn't anywhere near as bloody as the Berserk manga)
I tried watching and reading Berserk years ago, and all I really remember is that it was boring. I just didn't see what people saw in it.

I don't really care about gore one way or the other. But it was impossible for me to care about the characters, be they Griffith, Guts, or that dark skinned woman. Whether the next scene was about "rocks fall. Everybody dies" or a giant group hug, it was all the same to me.

Claymore, OTOH, I very much enjoy. Among other reasons because the characters aren't quite so self-absorbed. So it is possible to like one without liking the other.
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Old 2007-06-16, 12:44   Link #306
Immortus
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Mentar, I have to disagree with you...a lot.

Where did you stop reading Berserk? Because after The Band of the Hawk arc there where only two short Arcs about the Apostel- Fairy and another one.
Since then, the story is going upwards again, on so many levels. New companions, characters and an old enemy...

And you know, while I understand why Clare hates her main enemy, Guts hatred is so deep and so well outlined. And still, when he had the chance to avenge himself, he chose the other way to help Casca...and it was not a quick decision, but one that was foreshadowed in the course of the story...

Maybe you should read on?
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Old 2007-06-17, 02:16   Link #307
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Erm... please excuse me, but you must be kidding. With the end of the Band of the Hawks arc, and the beginning of the Lovecraft-ish Cthulhu-style mess, the Berserk storyline deteriorated terribly. There is no massive scale of anything in Berserk, because the main character - Gatts - is just way too primitive and straightforward for anything really complex.

Now don't get me wrong, Berserk is still a classic and a very enjoyable manga. But it's completely lacking what Claymore has: A clearly progressing multilayered storyline. With Claymore, I can clearly see what the mangaka is trying to tell, and I can even assess where we are in the progress of the drama arc (right now, very much in the middle). Nothing of this is possible in Berserk post-Hawks, simply because Gatts is stumbling from one slaughter into the other, possessed by "Kill Griffith" and "Rescue Casca". There are nearly no lasting changes in the main characters. There are no long-range developments. There's nearly no connection between most arcs at all. But, of course, alot of action, alot of testosterone, and alot of blood.

No, from the quality of the narration, Berserk and Claymore certainly do not compare. But, the other way round than you indicated (at least IMHO)
Since I'm really not in the mood to type up an essay complete with examples defending my opinion, I'll just keep it brief:

-If the nature and scale of the enemy that Guts has to defeat isn't epic, then I don't know what is. Its definitely a much more epic problem than monsters and some shadowy organization treating their underlings like crap. (I get the feeling that the organization is doing a lot more than that and that they may actually be feeding the other problem, but that's a topic for a different thread) The setting is much more epic, as well.

-Guts' character was fleshed out enough during the BotH arc. We know what drives him, we know what's going on in that head of his, we've seen in detail how he got where he is now... he doesn't really need to be dynamic at this point. Just as a static character, he's already layered enough. Actually, Clare doesn't seem all that dynamic, either.

-Just because they don't throw everything on the table towards the beginning doesn't make it inferior. On the contrary, mystery, when done right, makes things more interesting.

And I'll leave it at that.
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Old 2007-06-23, 18:03   Link #308
saravis
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Finally got around to watching more Claymore after taking a break at three. Truly enjoyed this episode, but I have two complaints, and I apologize if this has been already brought up, but I don't have the time to wade through 16 pages.
Anyway my first complaint is that Teresa's death was completely out of character. She's supposed to be #1. She didn't get to that point by baking cookies. She got there because she proved herself. Yet all that went to shame when she surpressed her powers, to deliver the final blow. Any Claymore with enough experience would know that one so close to the limit could change at any moment. And yet Teresa treated it as if she was just putting a dog out. An act that was not befitting of her #1 status.
My second complaint is why in the heck did the Org. send Priscilla out on a critical mission, she was a rookie. Any idiot knows it doesn't matter how powerful you are if you don't have the experience to back it up, and Priscilla was prime proof of that. Personally I hope that the Org. is the final enemy of the story, they chose to risk an awakening to save face, something I find absolutely appalling I know, I know, though, the explanation: Plot Device.
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Old 2007-06-23, 22:46   Link #309
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Originally Posted by saravis View Post
Anyway my first complaint is that Teresa's was completely out of character. She's supposed to be #1. She didn't get to that point by baking cookies. She got there because she proved herself. Yet all that went to shame when she surpressed her powers, to deliver the final blow. Any Claymore with enough experience would know that one so close to the limit could change at any moment. And yet Teresa treated it as if she was just putting a dog out. An act that was not befitting of her #1 status.
It's possible, and quite likely, that she'd never witnessed an awakening before. Theresa has a soft heart, and she seemed to take pity on Priscilla.
Also, her Youki radar was overloaded, meaning she couldn't "see" Priscilla grab the sword. It was indeed foolish, though not as ridiculous or out-of-character as you make it sound.

Quote:
My second complaint is why in the heck did the Org. send Priscilla out on a critical mission, she was a rookie. Any idiot knows it doesn't matter how powerful you are if you don't have the experience to back it up, and Priscilla was prime proof of that. Personally I hope that the Org. is the final enemy of the story, they chose to risk an awakening to save face, something I find absolutely appalling I know, I know, though, the explanation: Plot Device.
How do you teach a kid to swim? Throw him in the deep end and he'll learn how to swim as he's drowning. The organization isn't known for its compassion, so they probably figured that the worst-case-scenario would just be Priscilla losing her head in a more literal fashion. Even Irene remarked that she forgot Priscilla was just a child, so it's not that far out that the organization did, too.
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Old 2007-06-23, 23:48   Link #310
saravis
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How do you teach a kid to swim? Throw him in the deep end and he'll learn how to swim as he's drowning. The organization isn't known for its compassion, so they probably figured that the worst-case-scenario would just be Priscilla losing her head in a more literal fashion. Even Irene remarked that she forgot Priscilla was just a child, so it's not that far out that the organization did, too.
I'm sorry, but that is total bull. Risk a kid drowning, with the chance that he learns how to swim. What do you think the possibility of that happening? Why do you think they have lifeguards. What are the odds that he'll calmly figure out the situation vs frantically fight it. Which was exactly what happened with Priscilla. Although, it isn't the matter that Priscilla was a kid, it was the matter that she was a rookie, she had too little experience and didn't even understand about the limits. You do not send a rookie on a critical mission except to provide minor support or for them to spectate it, to learn by watching, not participating. I said it before, they didn't put her on the mission because they misread her, they put her on the mission because they were trying to save face.
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Old 2007-06-24, 00:06   Link #311
FatPianoBoy
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Originally Posted by saravis View Post
I'm sorry, but that is total bull. Risk a kid drowning, with the chance that he learns how to swim. What do you think the possibility of that happening? Why do you think they have lifeguards. What are the odds that he'll calmly figure out the situation vs frantically fight it.
Actually, that's still regarded as the most effective method to teach a child how to swim in deep water. Proper parental supervision is obviously required so that he doesn't drown, but it works very well.

Quote:
Which was exactly what happened with Priscilla. Although, it isn't the matter that Priscilla was a kid, it was the matter that she was a rookie, she had too little experience and didn't even understand about the limits. You do not send a rookie on a critical mission except to provide minor support or for them to spectate it, to learn by watching, not participating. I said it before, they didn't put her on the mission because they misread her, they put her on the mission because they were trying to save face.
I knew I was forgetting something in that last post: Priscilla could apparently completely surpress her Youki. Against a fighter whose primary defense is reading Youki, this is a serious advantage regardless of experience. If her sense of honor hadn't gotten in the way, they'd have had a perfect victory.
Also, the fact that she had already risen to number two would suggest that she had already distinguished herself on routine hunts. She was already in the pool, so to speak; she just needed a push into deeper water.
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Old 2007-06-24, 01:09   Link #312
saravis
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I'll concede with a perhaps. I just feel that she was a rookie not ready for the mission and it was because of that it all went to hell right quick. I don't think power should be the only requirement for having a high rank, but this show is obviously a shonen, where power seems to be the only thing that matters for someone of high ranking. Bah! Whatever! They were really only minor complaints. This is a shonen I shouldn't expect too much from the story end of things.
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Old 2007-06-24, 01:39   Link #313
FatPianoBoy
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I'll concede with a perhaps. I just feel that she was a rookie not ready for the mission and it was because of that it all went to hell right quick.
Hey, I'm not arguing with you - just trying to explore the hypothetical method to the organization's madness
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Old 2007-06-24, 01:49   Link #314
saravis
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Hey, I'm not arguing with you - just trying to explore the hypothetical method to the organization's madness
Nor was I trying to argue with you just explaining my complaints is all.

One thing I just thought of, something I was wondering about in your previous post what exactly does it mean to suppress your Youki. I was under the impression that it was to remain in your regular state; the silver-eyed state. Something Priscilla was obviously not doing in the fight, which was why, I get the feeling, Teresa was able to take the upper-hand, until she idiotically lowered her guard. Was I interpretating this wrong or what?

Last edited by saravis; 2007-06-24 at 02:23.
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Old 2007-07-10, 20:07   Link #315
jor8888
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Originally Posted by Bloodseeker View Post
Regardless of how weak they are to gore, great storytelling is something that can be enjoyed by almost everybody. And if they're enjoying Claymore, then they'll probably like Berserk's atmosphere as well. (though the massive scale and complexity of the conflict, the development of the setting, and the overall epicness of the story are on a level that Claymore hasn't even come close to reaching yet, and the Claymore anime isn't anywhere near as bloody as the Berserk manga)
I dont even read Berserk anymore, the story has gotten boring and dumb. I would careless if any of the char in berserk got killed but when Teresa died I fell sad and almost cry thats the diff.
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Old 2007-07-16, 20:53   Link #316
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im so annoyed. IM SO ANNOYED>

Ive never been so annoyed that my body has shook with anger before.

I cant believe that they killed her that way. she was totally beyond any of their powers and she got tricked into death like that.

God im annoyed.

this post is just for me complaining .. . the look on her face. it was just like omg she tricked me, i lost to a trick, i was going to give her an honorable death, oh no clare, i lost when i wasnt even at full power?

man it was just so annoyin, going to take me a while to calm down.

anyway istimtimtsim > rant over.
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Old 2007-07-16, 22:48   Link #317
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Originally Posted by Wavie View Post
im so annoyed. IM SO ANNOYED>

Ive never been so annoyed that my body has shook with anger before.

I cant believe that they killed her that way. she was totally beyond any of their powers and she got tricked into death like that.

God im annoyed.

this post is just for me complaining .. . the look on her face. it was just like omg she tricked me, i lost to a trick, i was going to give her an honorable death, oh no clare, i lost when i wasnt even at full power?

man it was just so annoyin, going to take me a while to calm down.

anyway istimtimtsim > rant over.
Welcome to Claymore. Yeah, Theresa's death was a great tragedy. That tragedy is the start of Clare's journey.
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Old 2007-07-19, 16:01   Link #318
ArmisaelXVIII
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Originally Posted by Wavie View Post
im so annoyed. IM SO ANNOYED>

Ive never been so annoyed that my body has shook with anger before.

I cant believe that they killed her that way. she was totally beyond any of their powers and she got tricked into death like that.

God im annoyed.

this post is just for me complaining .. . the look on her face. it was just like omg she tricked me, i lost to a trick, i was going to give her an honorable death, oh no clare, i lost when i wasnt even at full power?

man it was just so annoyin, going to take me a while to calm down.

anyway istimtimtsim > rant over.

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Old 2007-08-05, 20:02   Link #319
Hyperion
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What an episode!

I had expected Teresa to lose and probably die but the way it actually happened shocked and suprised me completely. Just as a glimmer of hope crept into my mind that Teresa might actually survive then BAM - it's over. Poor Teresa indeed. T_T

Priscilla's full transformation and the masacre of the other claymores was also unexpected, I had thought they might be the ones to have taken Claire in to become a claymore after Teresa's inevitable defeat and perhaps appear in the present day as mentor type characters.

Judging from the preview, looks like we will be introduced to a new cast of claymores.

Overall this flashback arc has been near flawless, we now know Claire's motivation for becoming a claymore is probably to avenge Teresa but is that her only reason?
.
Can't wait for more.
Agreed. An awesome episode. Sad, but awesome. I feel sorry for Teresa, she was becoming my fav. I feel even more sorry for Claire.
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Old 2007-09-09, 19:16   Link #320
lenneal
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That was sooo sad i can't belivle it i almost cried when pricsilla was begging for her life MAN IF ONLY TERSA CUT HER HEAD OFF IN THE VILLAGE but sigh* when tersa's hands got cut off i was like O.O and when her head fell i was sooooooo dam pissed cuz i wanted tersa and clare to live a happy life traveling the world..but damn u pricsilla!!! =( R.I.P
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