AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-04-02, 23:50   Link #4741
Irenicus
Le fou, c'est moi
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pancakes View Post
(sighs) Forget it.
Uh, what. Their features aren't Caucasian if by Caucasian you mean to imply Japanese anime character designers are a bunch of self-hating Europhiles. It's really just the art style, and that's that.

If you must trace the art style's history I suppose one could "blame" it on Osamu Tezuka. Tezuka was very heavily influenced by Western, usually American, comics of his era, including Walt Disney's works. His early works were drawn in styles which were extremely reminiscent of the early Western newspaper comics. They were also more "cartoon-y" than what we are used to today.

His style evolved, though, and so did the rest of the industry. That evolution eventually leads up to the current dominant style(s). I don't think they really consider what they're doing to be "whitening"; it's just Western misinterpretation. You can't separate the "unrealistic" features and the "white skin" and then single out the "white skin" part because they're all part of the package of what we see as the "anime style" drawings.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2011-04-03 at 05:28. Reason: Sorry, had to remove the last bit.
Irenicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-03, 00:01   Link #4742
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by pancakes View Post
(sighs) Forget it.

(question still left unanswered)
Both Irenicus and RRW answered the question and, of course, 5 minutes with google would also answer it ---. I suppose I could pull out a dozen "western" cartoons with bizarre interpretations of human beings -- the answer is simply that the art methods employed help to distinguish characters. The rest is variation on art style (like how the comic Zits varies from the comic Dilbert).

There are anime made (semi-realistic) with "black hair, tan/light skin" features (usually seinen or shoujo)... and it can be difficult to tell characters apart at times. Three or four characters with tall slender figures and long black hair in a drawn medium and the confusion is easy "even for Japanese".
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-03, 12:52   Link #4743
pancakes
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to pancakes Send a message via Skype™ to pancakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Uh, what. Their features aren't Caucasian if by Caucasian you mean to imply Japanese anime character designers are a bunch of self-hating Europhiles. It's really just the art style, and that's that.

If you must trace the art style's history I suppose one could "blame" it on Osamu Tezuka. Tezuka was very heavily influenced by Western, usually American, comics of his era, including Walt Disney's works. His early works were drawn in styles which were extremely reminiscent of the early Western newspaper comics. They were also more "cartoon-y" than what we are used to today.

His style evolved, though, and so did the rest of the industry. That evolution eventually leads up to the current dominant style(s). I don't think they really consider what they're doing to be "whitening"; it's just Western misinterpretation. You can't separate the "unrealistic" features and the "white skin" and then single out the "white skin" part because they're all part of the package of what we see as the "anime style" drawings.
You know, forget it usually means forget it, but if you want to continue the conversation we could.

If what you're saying is true, then that would make a lot of sense. So it's just a style that was adapted a long time ago, and was carried on today. And has become the dominant style.

Also for the record, I can separate or single out anything I want to. I'm the audience. As the audience I'm entitled to opinions and thoughts. I'm sorry I'm not a blind tool that kisses Japan's/anime's butt. If I see something I don't like or doesn't make sense I'll say something.

<-United States
Freedom of Speech
(Lastly I was not implying what you said, do not put words in my mouth.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Both Irenicus and RRW answered the question and, of course, 5 minutes with google would also answer it ---. I suppose I could pull out a dozen "western" cartoons with bizarre interpretations of human beings -- the answer is simply that the art methods employed help to distinguish characters. The rest is variation on art style (like how the comic Zits varies from the comic Dilbert).

There are anime made (semi-realistic) with "black hair, tan/light skin" features (usually seinen or shoujo)... and it can be difficult to tell characters apart at times. Three or four characters with tall slender figures and long black hair in a drawn medium and the confusion is easy "even for Japanese".
5 minutes with google could get you a lot. And that's basic knowledge. You do not have to point that out to me, and in doing so that's extremely rude. Also RRW didn't answer my question. Only the questioner can truly tell you if their question was answered. So don't sit their and try to tell my what's right and wrong or what's the answer and whats not. This isn't a debate,you're not my mother.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2011-04-03 at 15:45.
pancakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-03, 13:38   Link #4744
teachopvutru
Urusai~Urusai~Urusai~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Location
Age: 22
^For the record, your original question is:
"How come most anime/manga/novel characters are depicted to have European features, even though their Asian?"
And the answer to it was: it's just the art style (Mukokuseki)

Then you rejected it as the answer to your question and went on to say "[but there are] a lot of anime [that] sway toward reality," meanwhile failing to provide some examples to let others see what you mean.
RRW answered again that it's the choice of "character design" by the "anime/manga maker." That is very related to the individual artist's art style.

Then you said "Forget it," ending the post with "(question still left unanswered)." Irenicus came and repeat it's the "art style."
Now you said, "that [makes] a lot of sense."

TL;DR: The same answer was presented three times. You rejected it twice, believing your question was not answered, and then accepted it the third time.
Can you still say that "Only the questioner can truly tell you if their question was answered"?
__________________

"FOUND YOU!" ~Taiga
teachopvutru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-03, 14:05   Link #4745
Jinto
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 34
One could differentiate between a "thats an artstyle thing" and a psychology based answer to that question though.

For all what I know the characters, most of the time have to appear rather cute/childlike/innocent (to a certain degree), this is typically done by applying an artstyle that reflects the scheme of childlike characteristics (big head/eyes in comparison to the body... often rather thin arms, legs... and so on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness).
Knowing that, one can could go a step further and try to see a relation to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai, but does not necessarily have to...
Jinto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-03, 16:01   Link #4746
Daniel E.
AniMexican!
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
Ok, pancake's question has already been fully answered. Let's move on to something else before things degrade into an argument.
__________________
Daniel E. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-03, 20:45   Link #4747
pancakes
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to pancakes Send a message via Skype™ to pancakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachopvutru View Post
^For the record, your original question is:
"How come most anime/manga/novel characters are depicted to have European features, even though their Asian?"
And the answer to it was: it's just the art style (Mukokuseki)

Then you rejected it as the answer to your question and went on to say "[but there are] a lot of anime [that] sway toward reality," meanwhile failing to provide some examples to let others see what you mean.
RRW answered again that it's the choice of "character design" by the "anime/manga maker." That is very related to the individual artist's art style.

Then you said "Forget it," ending the post with "(question still left unanswered)." Irenicus came and repeat it's the "art style."
Now you said, "that [makes] a lot of sense."

TL;DR: The same answer was presented three times. You rejected it twice, believing your question was not answered, and then accepted it the third time.
Can you still say that "Only the questioner can truly tell you if their question was answered"?
I wanted to know WHY. I stated that Irenicus's explanation was best, so I concluded it as my answer. Why was his the best? Because he explained and answered in a clear way. And the three replies I got are not the same, if you think otherwise that's your opinion,yet not a fact. Also please stop with the quotes. I can read. I know what I said. You do not have to repeat everything twice, and there's no need to be so aggressive. It's anime.

But alas, my question is answered. I need no further expertise. Thank you.
pancakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-04, 10:50   Link #4748
-KarumA-
(。☉౪ ⊙。)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by pancakes View Post
I understand this princible, but that doesn't apply to all anime. Yes, there are some where they have GOOFY hair, like pink or green or purple. But, a lot of anime sway toward reality. In making characters that actually resemble real races and people. Mukokuseki says that animes use a mix of everything and the unrealistic. While most animes, depict white characters, with REAL hair colors (like blonde,brown,red,black sometimes), with just un-asian features. WHO LIVE IN ASIA!! So if your gonna depict the real thing, why not?
Anime started out as animation copied in style from the old American golden age cartoons. They kept the overly heighted eyes as part of emotion, which is their purpose to be able to show more emotion in their characters.
It never changed because anime and manga style are given down from master to student, so everyone learns the same basics as their master used in his/her own work and maybe later made this a personal style but usually it looks the same and hence why it never really changed to realistic for some people.
The bright colours for hair and such is just a character design with narative meaning, I mean some hair colours fit certain personalities or make it easy as a viewer to predict who is going to full fill what role in a series.
-KarumA- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-04, 11:05   Link #4749
pancakes
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to pancakes Send a message via Skype™ to pancakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by -KarumA- View Post
Anime started out as animation copied in style from the old American golden age cartoons. They kept the overly heighted eyes as part of emotion, which is their purpose to be able to show more emotion in their characters.
It never changed because anime and manga style are given down from master to student, so everyone learns the same basics as their master used in his/her own work and maybe later made this a personal style but usually it looks the same and hence why it never really changed to realistic for some people.
The bright colours for hair and such is just a character design with narative meaning, I mean some hair colours fit certain personalities or make it easy as a viewer to predict who is going to full fill what role in a series.
Well my question was answered, but I appreciate the response . And I must say someone already said this, but you BY FAR did the best in explaining it. Thank you very much for your time. I greatly appreciate it.
pancakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-04, 13:21   Link #4750
Kakashi
カカシ
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Send a message via MSN to Kakashi
Any dog owners out there have any suggestions on the best way to feed your dog?
Kakashi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-04, 14:18   Link #4751
Lord of Fire
The Voice of Reason
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
Any dog owners out there have any suggestions on the best way to feed your dog?
It won't eat out of a bowl or something like that?
__________________
Lord of Fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-04, 17:24   Link #4752
Kakashi
カカシ
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Send a message via MSN to Kakashi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
It won't eat out of a bowl or something like that?
Mine refuses to eat any kind of commerical dog food (unless he's fed nothing then he kind of resigns to a few bites), so I'm thinking what kinds of meat and vegetables would be good for him.
Kakashi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-04, 18:09   Link #4753
pancakes
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to pancakes Send a message via Skype™ to pancakes
I feed mine mostly meat. Usually chicken or beef. He loves it and it's cheap. Also sometimes scrambled eggs, since their high in protein. As for vegetables, I'm not sure. I really don't think dogs NEED vegetables. My dog never had any his entire life, and he's fine.

Besides, dog food is nasty and overpriced. Your better off with regular food.
pancakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 02:03   Link #4754
-KarumA-
(。☉౪ ⊙。)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes
Age: 27
It depends ont he age of the dog, puppies are somewhat known to refuse to eat.
To get them to eat, this is what we did with our dog that is, just add some left over graphy from cooking to the bowl, like less than 1 tea spoon. Ours started eating her food right away ever since and when she did start eating it we gradually stopped (within the week or so) and she never really noticed.
You can try feeding them the food as a snack during walks or training, but allas this has a low success rate and only works if the dog is young.
Lastly some dogs do not eat all their food in one go, I know some who don't (unbelievable or not) so you can try leaving it in the bowl for the rest of the day, as long as she eats it eventually it is good.

Chicken is good, but remember those kinds fo food will make your dog overweight in no time. Do not add in any bones, because dogs cannot digest nor chew them properly like wolves can. I wouldn't start giving pets normal food, they are dogs for a reason not humans. It will only provoke begging behaviour so when you eat some chicken the dog will start drooling next to you because he usually eats it too.

Raw eggs are only good once every year or so and are only good for their fur (makes it more shiney). Dogs don't need vegetables, though mine likes fruit every once in a while but not as a daily meal because they get sick from it.
-KarumA- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 04:54   Link #4755
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
Mine refuses to eat any kind of commerical dog food (unless he's fed nothing then he kind of resigns to a few bites), so I'm thinking what kinds of meat and vegetables would be good for him.
From what little I know of dog handling, you might want to try experimenting with different brands of dog food - some dogs can be fussy with what they eat. If they like natural unprocessed food, you might want to get some lean meat from the butcher (300g should be enough).

I have heard that eggs can cause diarrhoea, so I wouldn't exactly recommend them.

Disclaimer - the dogs I handled before are guard dogs. The only experience I have with a dog not eating was that it is depressed that its previous handler finished his term of service, and it subsequently tried to eat a sergeant after days of anorexia.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 22:52   Link #4756
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
Mine refuses to eat any kind of commerical dog food (unless he's fed nothing then he kind of resigns to a few bites), so I'm thinking what kinds of meat and vegetables would be good for him.
Meat, some fatty and some lean. I've never fed my dogs vegetables as I believe they naturally supplement their diet with native grasses from my backyard.
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-06, 12:57   Link #4757
jedinat
フリーター
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 29
Why do I fairly often see in manga a character (usually middle/high school) going to a "family restaurant" for the first time? I'm guessing these restaurants are perceived differently than the ones in the US. Or maybe we don't have the same kind of restaurants. In anime/manga they all look very similar too; sort of diner-ish.
jedinat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-08, 19:48   Link #4758
bhl88
Otaku Apprentice
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Unseen Horizon
Send a message via MSN to bhl88 Send a message via Yahoo to bhl88
Is the iPhone 5 the same size as the iPhone 4? (I plan to use the iPhone 4 cover on the iPhone 5....)
__________________

Dang it Avalon, you c(XD LOL)-block Shirou and Reinforce, but don't protect his mind in other ways? What is wrong, you woman?
Friendship, be made! Magical power, gather! Starlight Breaker.... this world!
bhl88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-09, 10:35   Link #4759
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Depends. You have got to check with a legit retailer, not just some corner shop and look at the specs. Usually Apple stuff only change the exterior design and the processors, then market them as something else.

Question : Does anyone know of a guide to writing fiction? What is the difference between regular fiction and light novels? I realise that I completely suck at writing anything else but critical essays.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-09, 10:50   Link #4760
-KarumA-
(。☉౪ ⊙。)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Depends. You have got to check with a legit retailer, not just some corner shop and look at the specs. Usually Apple stuff only change the exterior design and the processors, then market them as something else.

Question : Does anyone know of a guide to writing fiction? What is the difference between regular fiction and light novels? I realise that I completely suck at writing anything else but critical essays.
Lightnovel: mostly simple japanese, word count isn't as high as a fiction story or literature, different reader group. Simple to read.

Fictional story: basically for a wider audience if the writer wants it to be. higher word count, if the writer knows what he/she is doing will use better grammar and word choosing instead of that in lightnovels, so hopefully it isn't as junior/high school level of words as in light novels.

By word count I mean per book, also lightnovels can have very short paragraphs.

If you want to write fiction, learn to properly use language in writtings, narrative structure.
-KarumA- is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
problem, q&a, questions, serious

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.