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Old 2007-05-30, 22:26   Link #21
prolifik
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I may have missed this part in the manga, but did Itachi ever say that he had a third jutsu or is everyone just making an assumption based off of the legend of the gods?
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Gaara: My sand defense is inpenetrable! No one has ever broken through it! You will die!

(Sasuke uses Chidori)

Gaara: WTF?!
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Old 2007-05-30, 22:28   Link #22
YuriGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyu410 View Post
Seriously, well then my bet is on Kagutsuchi too.
as of this moment neither Susanoo or Kagutsuchi are jutsu but they are the only ones left from the story that Tsukiyumi and Amaterasu are from

yes it said that there are 3 mangekyou jutsu and the 2 we know come from a japanese folk tale called "the tale of Izanami and Izanagi" so its only logical that the 3rd ones comes from it too right

Last edited by Hunter; 2007-05-31 at 05:05. Reason: do not double post
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Old 2007-05-30, 22:52   Link #23
Kyu410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriGirl View Post
yes it said that there are 3 mangekyou jutsu and the 2 we know come from a japanese folk tale called "the tale of Izanami and Izanagi" so its only logical that the 3rd ones comes from it too right
It would make sense that the 3rd jutsu came from the same story. Because if it didn't I would be dissapointed a little bit.
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Old 2007-05-31, 01:50   Link #24
amOKchen
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Sasuke already got a techinque where lightning pulses all over his body, or was that just an extreme version of chidori?
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Old 2007-05-31, 07:34   Link #25
reloaded
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Susanoo is the god of the sea and storms. Tsukuyomi is reffered to as underworld moon technique. As for MS if Sasuke aquires one it would be interesting if the 3rd MS techniques are exclusive to the users based on their elemental affinity. Sasuke could use Susanoo (some sort of time-space or thunder taijutsu) and Itachi could use a fire attack as his 3rd technique which could be Kagutsuchi (some sort of fire beam which could burn everything in range) although im doubtful over Kagutsuchi since Amaterasu is already a powerful fire technique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amOKchen View Post
Sasuke already got a techinque where lightning pulses all over his body, or was that just an extreme version of chidori?
Chidori Nagashi (one thousand birds current), I would say it is.
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Old 2007-05-31, 07:49   Link #26
othafa
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@ amokchen
Yes, it was just a version of Chidori.

I would expect that we haven't seen all of Itachi's capabilities with MS, since he revealed both of the techniques we've seen pre-timeskip. I'm guessing that the MS jutsu that he knows were outlined in the Uchiha scroll and were invented by some previous wielder. In that light, I also think that there will be two more, that we'll see the storm jutsu before we see the fire jutsu, and that the fire is regarded as an Uchiha master technique like Kaiten for the Hyuugas (the Uchihas do love their fire).

I think that whoever said that the MS just gives the user better control over a certain set of finite rules was closest to correct. It does seem like Kakashi invented a new jutsu to use with the MS, so I get the impression that, while normal jutsu can only deal with how your own chakra impacts the world under its normal constraints, the MS can bend or break the rules of both time and space and allow for the creation of jutsu that defy reality. However, it appears that the farther from reality you get, the more chakra is consumed.

(note, this is just speculation, but I'm trying to state it in a way that takes reason into account)

For example, Itachi does not have to worry as much about efficiency, because he has the chakra capacity of a genius Uchiha and his sharingan is naturally more efficient for him than Kakashi's. Therefore, he obviously uses his favorite jutsu (Tsukoyumi) more often. This jutsu takes complete control over the element of time, and since its genjutsu it already has control over the victim's perception of space. The more he makes his victims suffer over time, the more chakra he uses.

Ameratsu goes the other way. The ancient Uchihas were like "There are some things that fire can't burn through? We can't have that..." So they used the MS to invent a jutsu that defies spacial reality to burn the unburnable. Since once again this is doing the highly impossible, it consumes a lot of chakra. These two jutsu even consume huge amounts of chakra for someone who the sharingan functions normally for, so its obvious that they're beyond Kakashi's scope.

Either Tsunade allowed Kakashi to hunt down the Uchiha master scroll, since hes the only sharingan user left in the village, or he just has a ridiculous intuition (which is highly possible, because Kakashi rocks). Either way, after he obtained MS, I suspect that Kakashi realized that he needed a jutsu that functions closer to the way reality actually functions, but that would still take advantage of the ridiculous potential of MS. He then invented a jutsu that simply manipulates time/space to make things that can be destroyed through normal means (flesh/clay) simply get relocated instantly. Since Deidara was able to recover his ring relatively quickly, I presume that Kakashi invented the jutsu to only send things a finite and relatively short distance away (relatively short could still be miles). I also think that his intention for the jutsu was exactly what he did to Deidara the first time, and that he got the inspiration for it from Sandaime using Yondaimes move to just take Oro's arms. In this way, he was able to create a jutsu that could completely win a battle against all but the best shinobi, and at the same time limit the detrimental affects that using MS would have on his chakra.
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Old 2007-05-31, 17:29   Link #27
Kyu410
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Or Kakashi could've used MS to fuse Amaterasu and Tsukyomi to make his jutsu. Kishi never actually stated that MS couldn't fuse its techniques and make new ones.
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Old 2007-05-31, 22:57   Link #28
YuriGirl
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The only reason i brought up the third justu was because naruto has alot of old folk lore in it. "Children of Izanagi and Izanami" is only 1 of many old tales that they incorperated into the story. having heard this story along with others as a small child it just sticks out when anime use things like this.

They also bring the tale of Tsunade in as well(its not a coincidence that jiraiya summons toads, tsunade slugs, and orochimaro snakes) it because thats the type of magic each used it the story(jiraiya used toad magic, tsunade used slug magic, and orochimaru used snake magic). In the story jiraiya is in love with tsunade just like he is in naruto, and just like in naruto he gets rejected.

Also the fact of orochimaru having the Murakumo No Tsurugi(Kusanagi) sword in him is from another story of when susanoo slew the yamato no orochi and pulled it from the snakes body.

These are the reasons that lead me to think the third mangekyou jutsu is from the story as well.

Children of Izanagi and Izanami
The creators of Heaven and Earth made the gods Izanami and Izanagi. Then Izanami and Izanagi formed the island of Japan. Izanami and Izanagi decided to live on this island and so they traveled down from Heaven.

Izanami and Izanagi were blessed with many children but the oldest was Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess. She was extremely beautiful and her parents decided to send her up the Ladder of Heaven to the sky high above to cast forever her glorious sunshine upon the earth.

Their next child was the Moon God, Tsukiyomi. He was not as beautiful as his sister but he was deemed worthy of her radiance and sent up the Ladder of Heaven. Like brother and sister they fought and so were separated by a day and night, and they lived apart.

The next child of Izanagi and Izanami was Susanoo, The Impetuous Male. He was an unpleasant god and often lost his temper, resulting in violent storms. His parents were often concerned by his doings, and after talking together they decided to send their bad son away to the Land of Yomi(Japanese underworld).

The last child Izanami gave birth to was the Fire God, Kagutsuchi. The birth of this child made Izanami very ill, and she crept away to the Land of Yomi. Izanagi could not bear to live without her and so he too went to the Land of Yomi. Here Izanami had already eaten from the cooking-furnace of Yomi and so it was too late for her to return with Izanagi. She begged Izanagi to not look at her.

Izanagi was very curious and so he could not obey Izanami's wish of not looking at her. When he looked at Izanami he saw this terribly ugly creature and was very disgusted. He became angry as did Izanami, for Izanagi had shamed her by looking. Izanami began chasing Izanagi but he soon escaped from her and the Land of Yomi.
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Old 2007-06-24, 12:09   Link #29
ragnos007
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From what i remember i think the MS can be gained without killing your best friend as Itachi stated. At least that is the way it was worded in the anime (im going off the english translations) and in the [MANGA] Itachi said that by killing your best friend you could gain the same MS as he has. I dunno bout you guys but that is a pretty good indication to me that the MS or at least a different version can be gained by other means like dedication or something.
And because of this I think that the other version will only be able to be used by sasuke and will be called Sansanoo and that it will be a lightning based attack (since sasuke has an affinity to lightning based jutsu) but not only will it be lightning based it will involve something to do with the kusanagi sword that he has.
As for the possibility that it could be called Kagutsuchi i doubt it because from the storys about Izanami and Izanagi when Izanami dies in childbirth (giving birth to Kagutsuchi) Izanagi gets really pissed off and kills Kagutsuchi who becomes a bunch of other deities in the explosion thingy.
However, I have also heard a version in which, the part where Izanagi kicks Sansanoo out of the heavens he says that he wants to go to the land of yomi to be with his mother. Perhaps this version may give rise to another MS technique that may in fact be Kautsuchi because sasuke said that he would be willing to sell his soul to the devil to gain the power to kill itachi.
As for Kakashi's MS it is a different variation completely to the MS - possibly because he doesnt have Uchiha blood in him (it probably would have been good if Rin [kakashis and obitos med nin team mate] to infuse/transplant some of Obitos blood into him [kakashi] while she was doing the eye something could have happened :P). I would really like to know what the name is of that technique that sends stuff to a different dimension.
That reminds me -
Quote:
Itachi does not have to worry as much about efficiency, because he has the chakra capacity of a genius Uchiha and his sharingan is naturally more efficient for him than Kakashi's. Therefore, he obviously uses his favorite jutsu (Tsukoyumi) more often.
by othafa
"he obviously uses his favorite jutsu (Tsukoyumi) more often" From the sounds of things you may be implying that he uses it (MS) alot - i dont think that itachi is that stupid because the MS causes damage to the eyes. If you are implying that he prefers Tsukoyumi over Amaterasu i dont think it is that simple. it is true that Itachi is more of a genjutsu based fighter (although he does use other jutsu) I think that Amaterasu uses more chakra than Tsukoyumi and by the sounds of things the more chakra used in MS mode the more damage is done to the users eyes. Another thing to do with the damage of the eyes i believe that Kakashi recieves more damage because he isnt of Uchiha blood so the side effects are enhanced.
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Old 2007-06-27, 05:50   Link #30
mahbod
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i think who ever gets mangeyuo or w/e u can develope your own style with it ... technically if its all the same kakashi should know the same tehcniques as itachi.. he is a genius too im sure he can figure out so deoends on ur type and how u wana use it ^_^
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Old 2007-06-29, 03:21   Link #31
Icecolduchiha
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I already posted this but there is some confusen so i guess i'll throw my hat into the ring
Spoiler for MS tech:


Spoiler for sasuke:


I have not completely finished reading the myth's but once i do I am going to go over all of the manga. I figure that is the best way to do it. But thats just my thoery so far with the facts i have.
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Old 2007-06-30, 14:04   Link #32
Maitasuke Uchiha
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i think it is anoter move we havent seen or heard of before
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