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Old 2007-05-31, 05:44   Link #1
NoSanninWa
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The biology of Claymores

A discussion of how Claymores might be made and the possibility of having children spontaneously broke out in the Claymore episode 9 discussion. This is a topic that we are eventually going to need to have a thread for since I fear this topic will break out constantly in future episode discussions. It seems inevitable. As a result I have moved the discussion into this brand new thread! Besides, Claymores are fascinating creatures and we all want to know what makes them special. This thread can be used to discuss any aspect of Claymore biology. This discussion may include, but is not limited to:
  • How are Claymore made?
  • Can Claymores have children?
  • How does the release of Youma energy effect a Claymore's physique?
  • What happens to a Claymore when she Awakens?
  • How do the power of the Awakened work?

I know it is a rule that god kills a catgirl any time real world physics are introduced into a discussion about anime, but I had a chat with god and she promised me that no catgirls will be harmed as a result of anything said in this thread. After all, if we are going to pretend that these questions have answers we have already started to risk the lives of those adorable catgirls.

It is inevitable that people will want to insert knowledge which is only found in the manga. If anyone feels it necessary to do this, they may use a spoiler tag. I suggest that those who have not read the manga should not click on any spoiler tags. I will also request (but not require) that spoiler tags only be used for actual spoilers. Remember that if you use a spoiler tag many people will not read your post.


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Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2007-06-15 at 04:27.
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Old 2007-05-31, 05:44   Link #2
SimplyEd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life
I see becoming Claymore more like an infection.
How to become a Claymore, for starters.
It's not an "infection". It's an artificial (unnatural) alteration of the human physique/metabolism and even mentality. I think it's save to assume that it's a rather brutal and painful act, especially for the time right after the transformation. When Claymores learn to cope with their new hybrid body. All Claymores (except for Clare) were created against theit will, meaning that it's also quite traumatic, to say the least.
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Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2007-05-31 at 23:17.
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Old 2007-05-31, 06:53   Link #3
Slice of Life
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Originally Posted by SimplyEd View Post
How to become a Claymore, for starters.
It's not an "infection". It's an artificial (unnatural) alteration of the human physique/metabolism and even mentality. I think it's save to assume that it's a rather brutal and painful act, especially for the time right after the transformation. When Claymores learn to cope with their new hybrid body. All Claymores (except for Clare) were created against theit will, meaning that it's also quite traumatic, to say the least.
Yes, but an infection can do all that too. The point simply is, I don't think that this Claymore/human/youma arithmetics works. After all, Claymores (who are 1/2 human, or 2/3 human or whatever seem win most fights against youma so by that logic a full 1/1 human whould be even stronger.

As I see it it's human female plus traces of DNA/energy/magic/AT fields/polaron beams/whatever of a youma under right circumstances equals Claymore. But going into the details of the human -> Claymore transformation would probably kill more catgirls than a platoon of youma could.

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Originally Posted by SimplyEd View Post
That statement would fall under generalization and exaggeration.
The fault lies not with those people who don't know about Berserk but with those who know about it, make comments and draw connections between both series', and then fail to elaborate on that matter.

First and foremost, we should all judge each individual show on its own merits.
*very much subscribes*

As "self-respecting [and experienced] anime fan" I doubt that there is an anime show that has NOT been declared a must-see somewhere by somebody at some point.
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Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2007-05-31 at 23:18.
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Old 2007-05-31, 07:39   Link #4
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Let's kill a few catgirls anyway.

Claymores are chimeras. They have human cells and youmas cells. Going out on a limb, I'm going to say the reason Claymores are stronger than normal youmas are their human minds and willpower, allowing them to maximise the effects of youki on their bodies. Or maybe they have a special training that youmas lack. Or both.

And the reason it's possible at all (as opposed to, say, grafting cat ears on people) is that youma cells are magical and have weird transformation powers, which allow them to cohabit with human cells (I wonder if they've experimented on animal youma hybrids?).

Now take Clare: she actually has three types of cells: her original ones, Theresa's human ones, and Theresa's youma's. Now, thanks to the youma's magic, she isn't dying of cancer or anything, but it does weaken her compared to other Claymores. The only reason she isn't much weaker is that Theresa was freakishly strong to start with, even by Claymore standards.
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Old 2007-05-31, 08:01   Link #5
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Originally Posted by PastPrime View Post
Just because the Claymore are all women doesn't mean that they never tried to make male Claymore. There has to be a reason that they are all female. Perhaps he was what resulted when they tried to make a male Claymore. Or, a Claymore could have become pregnant and had a male child who carried enough of her demon blood that he eventually became an awakened one.
I believe we share the thought of that they have tried to make males into "claymores". And that it's something with the male body that does so they can't use the same "power" as the females. That's my theory on the awakened male. But what I meant with the only female claymores is that there are no males in the ranks (there numbers). But they have males in the organization preforming tasks.
Maybe pregnancy is the answer to this. Why shouldn't the women be able to get child after the whole yuoma transfer (as claymore or maybe even after awakened?).
Well hopefully there will shed some light on this matter in some upcoming episodes. Or maybe the next episode if i am lucky. Since my head just keep spinning around with all this.
And don't want any manga spoiler if there are any just so everybody knows
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Old 2007-05-31, 08:24   Link #6
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Well, maybe they use "male awakened" for breeding. You never know if those 3 were ambushed by the Organization.

As Miria said, why would a 47 ranked Claymore be around hunting an Awakened? And Since Clare has Teresa blood, it would be logical that the offspring would be powerfull.

My guess is that they are trying, to breed them out in order to, eliminate Priscilla.

Rubel is Evil, I don`t trust him and his "Gendo glasses"

I mean, How did Clare knew, the process, of making a Claymore? Teresa must have told her that

Oh, and the ranks can be changed. It`s just a matter to know who is the strongest Claymore. They fight each other in order to know who is the strongest. Remember the prior episodes? When the Youmas infested that town?
This only means that Clare had bad grades while being in "Claymore school"


Of course this are only theories...There isn`t any proof with the exception of knowing that Claymores have sexual urges. Beware of Helen...
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Old 2007-05-31, 09:31   Link #7
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I believe Helen answers the question about Claymore's getting pregnant in this episode.. remember when she comments on Raki she says "He can't be yours" That strongly implies that Claymore's can't get pregnant.
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Old 2007-05-31, 09:32   Link #8
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Originally Posted by LilleNisse View Post
I believe we share the thought of that they have tried to make males into "claymores". And that it's something with the male body that does so they can't use the same "power" as the females. That's my theory on the awakened male. But what I meant with the only female claymores is that there are no males in the ranks (there numbers). But they have males in the organization preforming tasks.
Maybe pregnancy is the answer to this. Why shouldn't the women be able to get child after the whole yuoma transfer (as claymore or maybe even after awakened?).
Well hopefully there will shed some light on this matter in some upcoming episodes. Or maybe the next episode if i am lucky. Since my head just keep spinning around with all this.
And don't want any manga spoiler if there are any just so everybody knows
I thought of another possibility. Perhaps their mothod of making Claymores evolved from something that happened naturally from time to time. A group of humans fighting against a Yuma and someone getting his or her wounds contaminated with Yuma blood and/or flesh.

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Originally Posted by Archmagination2002 View Post
I believe Helen answers the question about Claymore's getting pregnant in this episode.. remember when she comments on Raki she says "He can't be yours" That strongly implies that Claymore's can't get pregnant.
Or maybe that they can't have normal children.
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Old 2007-05-31, 10:01   Link #9
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I thought of another possibility. Perhaps their mothod of making Claymores evolved from something that happened naturally from time to time. A group of humans fighting against a Yuma and someone getting his or her wounds contaminated with Yuma blood and/or flesh.
Thats possible. Even against normal humans, a weak yuoma shouldn't walk away without any form of damage. We saw Galk (spelling on hes name?) and the other one in the "church" episode. They can do some good fighting.
So what your saying may were well be true. That some males/females somehow got contaminated and then continued on to evolve to the state we know as "awakened". Might still be going on even if the current way of making claymores is more "advanced". So who knows, that awakened male we have seen might have just been a normal man with a pitchfork in the wrong place at the wrong time

Really hope they will give us the answer on the whole male awakening process in the next episode
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Old 2007-05-31, 10:05   Link #10
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Originally Posted by Archmagination2002 View Post
I believe Helen answers the question about Claymore's getting pregnant in this episode.. remember when she comments on Raki she says "He can't be yours" That strongly implies that Claymore's can't get pregnant.
Could also simply be the age difference. Assuming that Clare isn't too old (mid twenties?) and assuming that Claymores age at the same rate as humans (such that one can guess Clare's age from looking at her). Or Claymores could simply be forbidden to have children which would be very likely especially if it's not guaranteed that the children are 100 percent human. You're probably right for meta-reasons (it's a fitting anime cliche, eliminates potential complications for the story line and adds some more tragedy to the Claymores) , but I disagree that it's "strongly implied" from what Helen says.
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Old 2007-05-31, 10:19   Link #11
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Well, there could be three schools of theory how half-human-half-yoma Claymores are created:

(a) Technology: the organization had been secretly conducting genetic experiments as humanity's answer to prevent extinction in the face of their natural predators.

(b) Magic : It just happens. The organization splices a yoma tissue sample into a healthy human body which, instead of being rejected by the immunity system, blends into the human host.

(c) Natural : A well-hidden secret that yomas and humans genes are compatible enough to actually produce offsprings.

Kinda like how mules are a crossbred between a donkey and a horse. The mule possesses the sobriety, patience, endurance and sure-footedness of the donkey, and the vigour, strength and courage of the horse. As a side-note, due to differing number of chromosomes of the two species, mules are sterile.

So in the Claymore example, they could be a "natural" hybrid race that inherits that best traits of both parentage. Why aren't there male Claymores then? Perhaps, for some reason, the male offsprings never survive maturity. But, aha, Episode#09 showed one actually did.
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Old 2007-05-31, 10:28   Link #12
Anh_Minh
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(c) Natural : A well-hidden secret that yomas and humans genes are compatible enough to actually produce offsprings.
Can't be. Clare used to be human, but isn't anymore. She wasn't born a hybrid.
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Old 2007-05-31, 10:38   Link #13
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Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Could also simply be the age difference. Assuming that Clare isn't too old (mid twenties?) and assuming that Claymores age at the same rate as humans (such that one can guess Clare's age from looking at her). Or Claymores could simply be forbidden to have children which would be very likely especially if it's not guaranteed that the children are 100 percent human. You're probably right for meta-reasons (it's a fitting anime cliche, eliminates potential complications for the story line and adds some more tragedy to the Claymores) , but I disagree that it's "strongly implied" from what Helen says.
Another possibility is that the org has "spayed" the Claymores. We know from earlier lines (well in the manga at least. I'm assuming their in the anime) that the process for making a Claymore involves surgicaly implanting yoma flesh and blood. While their opened up, why not do a little snipping, or remove something that the Claymores won't be needing. If the org doesn't want Claymores reproducing, that would be a simple way to do it.
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Old 2007-05-31, 11:52   Link #14
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If the org doesn't want Claymores reproducing, that would be a simple way to do it.
Given the difficulty in training new recruits, the dangerous nature of the job and the short life expectancy (none of the Claymores look middle-aged, so either all of them die young or they have stumbled into the Fountain of Eternal Youth), why not produce as many as they can? Surely it is better to have more than you need, than to fall short of what you need.
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Old 2007-05-31, 12:05   Link #15
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My guess is that they fear something, might be born, that is unable to be tamed.
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Old 2007-05-31, 12:12   Link #16
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Given the difficulty in training new recruits, the dangerous nature of the job and the short life expectancy (none of the Claymores look middle-aged, so either all of them die young or they have stumbled into the Fountain of Eternal Youth), why not produce as many as they can? Surely it is better to have more than you need, than to fall short of what you need.
The only inconvenience would be that the organization can never know for sure the exact drives and circumstances for which each of the individual Claymore might run the risk of turning into Awakened in any day at the battlefield, if they become imperially pissed, or if they are careless with their release of yokiri.

Besides, Helen explained to Laki that there is one Claymore assigned to each area that comprises the continent. The continent is divided into 47 areas, therefore, they can be only 47 official Claymores at the time, though the Organization has everything preplanned at least one step ahead and has already at its disposal replacements in case that whether be single-digit or two-digit Claymores are incapacitated, killed in combat, turned rebellious, or the worst scenario conceived, becoming Awakened Ones.
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Old 2007-05-31, 12:19   Link #17
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Yes, but an infection can do all that too. The point simply is, I don't think that this Claymore/human/youma arithmetics works. After all, Claymores (who are 1/2 human, or 2/3 human or whatever seem win most fights against youma so by that logic a full 1/1 human whould be even stronger.

As I see it it's human female plus traces of DNA/energy/magic/AT fields/polaron beams/whatever of a youma under right circumstances equals Claymore. But going into the details of the human -> Claymore transformation would probably kill more catgirls than a platoon of youma could.
How to make a Claymore, intermediate course
Actually, that's still not an infection. An infection/disease/affliction is something triggered by a virus, a host. A virus might change ones genetic setup. But that's not what's happening for Claymores.
Youki is not a virus. You cannot get infected with it. Normal youma don't turn humans whom they have had contact with into their kind. Humans are a foodsource for Youma while they detest the scent of youki in the bodys of Claymores. Hence why they don't eat Claymores.
This simple correlation should be proof enough why it's not an affliction.
The process to create a Claymore is, most probably, of an arcane nature..alchemy if you will. Human and Youma flesh and blood being merged and altered instead of infected.
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Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2007-05-31 at 23:19.
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Old 2007-06-02, 11:06   Link #18
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I was thinking, and that's my 0.02 cents...

How yomas came to exist in the first place?
I really want to know. They are beings from the underworld or what?


Do humans really can turn into Yomas by infection or something like that?
Maybe that story of humans turning into yomas someday is a big mistake.
After all, loli-Claire never became a yoma... even thought she was used and abused by one. And yomas can disguise themselves like humans, so is very easy to confuse a situation and think a yoma disguised as a human, was a human all the time and turned into a yoma later.
And besides, if a human can really turn into a yoma, why the Organization ordered Claymores to never kill humans? Would be a lot easier to kill a human turning into a yoma than a fully turned yoma.


Can Claymore become pregnant?
Who knows? I think never in the story of the organization a female Claymore got too close of a male (human or claymore) to discover.
That... or they hide the answer pretty well. Maybe - like Negativedark said - they even made all the females steriles during the process of turning them into Claymores so they can't have kids!
I think it's up to RAKI to discover the answer, sooner or later. I just hope isn't HE the one to get pregnant, instead!


When a yoma eat a human, he gains all his/her memories so he can disguise himself as that human. So what happens if a yoma kill and eat a Claymore?
He will gain all is abilities, experiences and power, turning himself into a new kind of creature, more powerful than a claymore?
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Old 2007-06-02, 11:49   Link #19
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I don't think Claymores can become pregnant... under the vague impression that there's a whole lot going on in the stomach (lower abdomen) area that probably means (as someone mentioned above) that various things were removed. I'm going for the cell theory - because I guess when they fully transform, it means the Yoma cells might well have become the dominant dna or something scientific like that, rather than the human part?
We know that male ones weren't successful... and well, guys tend to have more testosterone, so could that be a contributing factor towards the acceleration to

Spoiler:


We can also tell when a yoma is killed simply by the colour of the blood... haemoglobins cause the red colour for humans, so am wondering if there's any organism that is purple ... alas the only thing I can think of is aubergines or the common egg plant
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Old 2007-06-02, 13:01   Link #20
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Klingons in Star Trek 6 had purple blood. I belive it was because of Magnese. But that was also the only time Klingons had purple blood to my recolection. Cephilipods witch have copper based blood have green blood.

You know a Claymore might be able to get around grossing out any prospective partners during the act by the simple methods of turning out the lights or keeping their shirts on.
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