AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-02-26, 11:18   Link #3121
LuMiZu
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Reading the spoilers about Lockon also reminds me of the following.

Quote:
13.Lockon knew how he feels for Felt and her feeling in return, howere.... but After encouragement from Tieria, got her.
Sounds a bit fishy to me, as how they're going to put this into much development within 5 episodes (and make it convincing). Someone also mentioned Felt blushing in the preview of Episode 21, so I'm not sure how this is going to turn out
LuMiZu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 11:32   Link #3122
sart
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
It certainly would have been if not for the blatant copy-pasted animation, and perhaps Shinn's over-the-top-fountain-of-emo.
There was MUCH more than just reused animation, the whole show was a cluster fuck. All i really have to point out is when destiny ran out of power?! wtf? They even knew how stupid that was and removed it from the DVD. Or how the series turned into nothing more than a popularity contest. Instead of actually trying to fix the flaws and develop shinn they decided SIKE kira was the main star all along. Who are they fooling.............
sart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 11:53   Link #3123
D a m i e n
permanentely bored
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: France
Age: 34
Send a message via ICQ to D a m i e n
Quote:
Originally Posted by Var View Post
That doesn't really speak about how well or poorly a character is developed. The characters in G00 are little like any of the listed characters. The GS/D characters are far flatter and more 'appealing' to this sub-genre's audience (aka kicks everything ass). While the G00 characters are flawed and fat characters and are not as easily identified with. Its like reading two different books, one being Harry Potter and the other being Lord of the Rings while at the age of twelve. Who do you think you'll be more intune with? The generic heroic child with traumatic past or, lets just say Frodo, who's succumbing to evil and is doing everything not out of personal gain but a sense of duty? I'll give you a hint, its not Frodo.

Looks like Justsomeguy beat me to the punch.. darn analogies.
i never claimed that GSD characters were good, the fact they had a huge fanbase amazed me to no end, i personnaly think that the CE universe was huge failure, extremely poorly created and that beside Fllay everything needed to be thrown to the dustbin. But to get back to the point about demongod saying GSD was kicking G00 ass i think he was talking about the popularity polls or TV rating being higher than G00 due to it s huge widowlicking fanbase.

as for the analogie between LotR and HP or the comparison between G00 characters vs GSD's tasteless characters, the answer is easely predictable. Concidering how lazy the average reader/viewer is it obvious the public will pick the easiest thing to read/view : the easiest one that raises the less problem / controversie.

i, too am glad to not see any fanbase rising around G00 cause i mostly concider fanboy widowlicker /glares D-Klac
__________________
Outside of a dog reading is man's best friend, inside it s too dark to read...
D a m i e n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 12:10   Link #3124
U<3Anime
Boo!
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
It certainly would have been if not for the blatant copy-pasted animation
O god those battle scenes.......They were so repetitive that I could even predict what moves they were going to use. It was like literally watching a SRW game, except it's just plain boring because you can't play it. Only exceptions are episode 1 and the episode where freedom gets destroyed and jesus yamato gets owned (But fuck, he even comes back more godly than ever. He became so godly that there was no suspense to the fight either. You know he was going the beat the shit out of everyone and he did that all way to the end, without a scratch on the final battle).

As for character development in GSD, I wouldn't put it above 00, neither am I saying 00 is any better. But, I seriously can't recall any character development in GSD, if there was than they were terrible, since I can't remember any of it.

*phew*

Seems like we have derailed the thread quite a bit. Enough of GSD bashing and let's get back on topic
__________________
omg Ku-chan!
U<3Anime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 12:28   Link #3125
Demongod86
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
No, I definitely think GSD showed growth--not within itself, but as a continuation of SEED.

By the end of SEED, Kira grew, but still was the same sensitive nice guy that cried a bit too much. In GSD, he took up far more of a sense of duty in regards to his capabilities and to his family relations. I forget which episode it is, but he eventually completely embraced the fact that he is a fighter when he told Athrun "We can only fight, but we do so to bring about a world that Lacus and Cagalli can do well in", or something along those lines that he said "this is our strength, we should be responsible for using it". Athrun grew from another red ace to a mentor, and while he initially failed, by the end, it should be noted that he finally got through to Shinn, even if it was in the only way Shinn knew understood.

Frankly, I liked Kira because he embraced his talents and delivered results. He took responsibility and leadership and led by example. Lacus, in the meantime, was extremely resourceful, knew what she had to do, kept track of everything, and had the spine and wherewithal to make happen what needed to happen, and although unofficial, basically brought an element of magic and fantasy into the CE era.

And before Lacus, guess what? I was also a Relena Peacecraft and Noin fan simply because they had guts and the drive to make things happen, and not only a desire, but they went in there and did their legwork. Noin fought on the front lines, Relena at great risk to herself, went and chased her ideals.

For people to say G00's characters are flawed is far-fetched. Even after 20 episodes, what we know about them can be summarized far too quickly.

Sumeragi--Former Union tactical commander.
Setsuna--former child soldier desiring power
Lockon--Parents killed by terrorists, wants to rid world of them. (And he's the one that's relatively normal!)
Allelujah--design baby (desu) reject with a split personality.
Tieria--WTF? Veda fanatic. Other than that, we know nothing.

We have not seen growth. G00 is completely plot driven. However, Alejandro possesses nowhere near Treize's knightliness. Graham is a FAR cry from the Lightning Count (HOW FUCKING COOL OF A NICKNAME IS THAT?!). Setsuna's past is completely one-dimensional without any other side to him, unlike Heero who at heart was a truly nice guy, and while Graham is cool for being extremely skilled and having that combat passion that WD goes nuts over, is it really anything compared to Zechs, who was brother, lover, prince, knight, dark knight, and finally becoming something akin to the Green Ranger by EW?

Know why G00 has no fandom compared to the CE series, or the AC series?

Because there is nothing to be a fan *OF*. The characters in Wing and SEED were memorable and great in their own ways. The gundam designs were all brilliantly unique and gave those gundams identities of their own, especially Epyon's dragon-knight design, Zero's angel design (and the TV series Zero radiated power in its own way), all of the Tallgeese's legionnaire designs, Freedom's/S.Freedom's demi-divine presentations, Justice really being a throwback to Epyon with its maroon themes, and of course, the deathscythe/blitz/amatu gold-frame designs...

G00 has nothing of that nature. None of the gundams aside from perhaps Exia really radiate with any sort of emotional themes. There is no extravagance, no symbolism, and no soul to these gundams at all. There are no great characters such as Lacus, Rau, Zechs, or Durandall. No great ships like the Archangel/Minerva/Dominion/Peacemillion/Libra. Hell, we see just how poorly the Ptolemaios holds up to combat (and it even gets sunk at the halfway point!).

Frankly, I watch Gundam for the greatness of all of its aspects. Wing's and SEED's gundams were imaginative, as were the ships, and characters.

All of G00's elements, except for Sumeragi's appearance, are very much *mundane*. There is no soul that radiates through the screen about any of it *at all*. Hopefully the second season will deliver ships, gundams, and characters that radiate with greatness, but as of now, only Graham is touching the very bottom of greatness, which is why if he goes, then so does the rest of G00 unless Sumeragi has some radical transformation into some sort of "goddess" of vengeance or righteousness.

And don't get me wrong--I am no crazed fanboy like D-klac, although the Wing and SEED universes spawn such fans as well. I'm into the greatness and heroism and more particularly, the anti-heroism displayed by so many characters.

Anime like Outlaw Star, Trigun, Wing, SEED, and GSD really had some great examples. But when we think back to G00, at this rate, what will we remember it as? The gundam that ripped out the soul and greatness of gundam, only to replace it with modern-day political hinting? It is already painfully clear that Setsuna is nowhere near the ace that Amuro, Heero, or Kira are (not even CLOSE in fact--it's already clear he's only alive BECAUSE of his immense technological advantage), which sort of means that any climactic duels are off the table unless we see a huge turnaround in S2.

But for now, I see G00 as a gundam with its soul ripped out, replaced by political banter.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
Demongod86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 12:34   Link #3126
Spitfire
Mr. Bushido
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 26
If you hate 00 so much Demongod, then why are you watching it?

And in all honesty, none of your points are really valid. They are all your opinion, but you make it out to be the absolute truth that we must accept. Well, I don't agree with any of your opinions, and you'l just have to accept that.

Seems to me that the reason you don't like 00 because its not exactly the same as Seed or Wing. Pretty lame if you ask me.
__________________
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 12:54   Link #3127
Deacon Blues
Supreme Grocer
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Send a message via AIM to Deacon Blues Send a message via MSN to Deacon Blues
[Insulting comment removed by a moderator]

I do know know where you are getting the Sumeragi is a former Union tactical commander, because that just isn't true.

Quote:
Know why G00 has no fandom compared to the CE series, or the AC series?
If they didn't, they wouldn't be selling DVDs, nor would fanart be POURING out of japan at a faster rate that Gundam SEED.

Quote:
There is no extravagance, no symbolism, and no soul to these gundams at all.
Gundams are not suppose to have souls dipshit. This is a close-to-real war as you can get. Do you think American tanks in Iraq have a soul to them? No. They are not suppose to symbolize anything special. They are there to be feared because they are trying to stop all warfare through armed intervention, it's that simple.

Quote:
Hell, we see just how poorly the Ptolemaios holds up to combat (and it even gets sunk at the halfway point!).
Considering the Ptolemy is a ship with NO weapons, there is no real way other than with the Gundams for it to defend itself. That, and there is no indication that it will be sunk. I blame the morons here for translating the rumors from 2chan because it has done nothing but mislead people into thinking events such as that are going to happen.

Gundam 00 is your real Gundam, so to speak. There is no magical sparkly fakeness like Gundam SEED (come on, Sir Kira Jesus Yamato spambot? Please, that is hardly heroism or realism there) or Wing for that matter. Just because you don't understand politics (hi, welcome to planet earth, that is now things go here) doesn't mean it automagically makes it a sucky story.

gb2/seed/.
__________________
「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
Deacon Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 13:02   Link #3128
shaselai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
I agree with some of his points like the chars arent that memorable. I liked Issac from seed even though he wasn't a main char - he had enough screentime and character for me to like him. Graham didnt have enough screentime and other characters who were introduced to be important got brushed aside. Soma, for example, was supposed to have some link to Hallelujah but he basically had headaches when near her and that's it - no further development. I know they are trying to show all sides of the war but it end up being too many chars and none that important or memorable. Kinoue dying, louise losing her arm actually made me glad they will be out of the picture soon. And the thrones being introduced 3-4 eps ago are getting their butt kicked and supposedly all gonna die in 3-4 episodes.... way too short of an introduction for new important chars.

I am not trashing 00 but i think the show wouldve been much better if they stuck with 52 eps instead of 2 seasons of 26 ep. It just seemed too hurried.
shaselai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 13:03   Link #3129
DJ_RockmanX
性転換 団長
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Socal
Age: 24
Send a message via AIM to DJ_RockmanX Send a message via MSN to DJ_RockmanX Send a message via Skype™ to DJ_RockmanX
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaselai View Post
I am not trashing 00 but i think the show wouldve been much better if they stuck with 52 eps instead of 2 seasons of 26 ep. It just seemed too hurried.
The only reason it's not 50+ episodes continuously is to allow Code Geass R2 some time to shine.
__________________

DJ_RockmanX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 13:26   Link #3130
justsomeguy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
What is this extravagance, symbolism, and soul that Demongod86 speaks of? None of those have a right to exist in machines of war!

Gundam 00 is trying to be a somewhat gritty look at warfare, not the shiny legendary hero ends war and brings peace to the land type of story that G00 mocks (see Celestial Being's supposed goals, and the results of their actions)!

Ptolemaios is a transport ship, not a perfect combination of battleship/carrier/superweapon.

Setsuna, even with his past, is relatively inexperienced and so far a normal human. Amuro (and similarly Kira) was always impressive, but even he had to rely on his machine's tech advantage in the beginning, and in the end he had powers! Heero's skills in the first part of Wing consisted of 1) relying on wank Gundanium armor to ignore hits, 2) pulling out his wank Buster Rifle to shoot and laugh, 3) blowing up the Wing Gundam, and doing suicidal things when out in person.

Also, how many dimensions would a person have if their childhood consists of shooting his own mom, living in a war zone, being a child soldier, and being in close contact with death all the time? Setsuna never had the opportunity to enjoy his childhood, or learn about himself as a person. Growing up into a goal-driven, humorless teen who hates war (yet is willing to use violence to crush it!) is perfectly realistic.

As for analysis of personalities, I can also sum up any CE character (as of GS ep 20) in one short phrase, and ignore all else. For example:
Lacus - a Coordinator pop star who is daughter of a Zaft politician
Kira - an amateur programmer turned ace MS pilot
Flay - evil bitch wanting revenge for father's death
Athrun - ace pilot who struggles between friendship and loyalty to a faction
Mwu - a well disciplined, loyal EA pilot
justsomeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 13:33   Link #3131
Papaya
Sup
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Atlanta
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to Papaya Send a message via MSN to Papaya
Well, I can see where Demongod is coming from. 00's characters do lack the same sort of multilayered depth that SEED's characters did. I can't say they're all flat though--while the majority of them are, we've seen some amazing evolutions of characters already... Setsuna, Tieria, Graham, and Ali are probably our deepest characters so far. On another hand, we are lacking the sort of good vs. evil epic encounters that we saw in SEED, but that's to be expected in a show where everything is meant to be a bit hazy.

I thought 00 was pretty disappointing in the first 10 or so episodes but lately it's really been growing on me. The intrigue is just so thick ;O

Some of you need to stop QQ'ing and chill though. It's a show, people have opinions, and there's no need to get your panties in a bunch just because someone isn't enjoying the show the same way you are.
Papaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 13:36   Link #3132
Shinkouhyou
(#゚Д゚)
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuMiZu View Post
Sounds a bit fishy to me, as how they're going to put this into much development within 5 episodes (and make it convincing). Someone also mentioned Felt blushing in the preview of Episode 21, so I'm not sure how this is going to turn out
Yeah, the Lockon/Felt thing is actually the only spoiler that I was somewhat dissatisfied with. I think the pairing is cute, but they've had what, one scene of meaningful interaction? Oh well, that's half the romances in Gundam. I wonder how many episodes it will be until poor Felt dies.

As far as Lockon's eyes, if the GN radiation makes it so they can't be regrown from cells, maybe he could get one transplanted from the twin brother?
Shinkouhyou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 13:38   Link #3133
Papaya
Sup
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Atlanta
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to Papaya Send a message via MSN to Papaya
I don't think Felt will be dying anytime soon. Didn't she say her parents were both meisters? Or were they just CB members?

00 is a franchise, and they're still tying all the ends together with the various mangas and so forth, so Felt is probably a much more important character than the show is making her out to be.
Papaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 14:39   Link #3134
Sir Dearka
Inglourious Buster
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Though I am fairly disappointed with episode 20, Gundam 00 is still a good show to me. I do still care for Saji, Lockon and Setsuna, but I was surprised to feel NOTHING when Saji's sister got killed.

Somehow I don't feel so attached to the 00 characters as to the protagonists of SEED. But it's ok. And after reading the spoilers, now I know that this season of 00 will not be in the same league in my eyes as more dramatic and moving first CE series. Still, producers just might hold something upo in their sleeve and surprise me by the end of episode 25. Who knows.

I'm always an optimist.
Sir Dearka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 14:48   Link #3135
Spitfire
Mr. Bushido
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
Though I am fairly disappointed with episode 20, Gundam 00 is still a good show to me. I do still care for Saji, Lockon and Setsuna, but I was surprised to feel NOTHING when Saji's sister got killed.

Somehow I don't feel so attached to the 00 characters as to the protagonists of SEED. But it's ok. And after reading the spoilers, now I know that this season of 00 will not be in the same league in my eyes as more dramatic and moving first CE series. Still, producers just might hold something upo in their sleeve and surprise me by the end of episode 25. Who knows.

I'm always an optimist.
I didn't really feel anything either, but then again, I don't get overly emotional about animated characters. Nor do I get attached to them. Why? Because its an animated show.

This doesn't mean that 00 is bad in any way. I applaude the 00 staff for their willingness to kill off characters, unlike in CE, where its like a friggin sin to even think about killing off characters.

Oh and Sir Dearka, will you give it a rest already. We know that you have a boner for CE and its characters, but we don't need to be reminded of it in every freaking post.
__________________
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 14:59   Link #3136
Sir Dearka
Inglourious Buster
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I didn't really feel anything either, but then again, I don't get overly emotional about animated characters. Nor do I get attached to them. Why? Because its an animated show.

This doesn't mean that 00 is bad in any way. I applaude the 00 staff for their willingness to kill off characters, unlike in CE, where its like a friggin sin to even think about killing off characters.

Oh and Sir Dearka, will you give it a rest already. We know that you have a boner for CE and its characters, but we don't need to be reminded of it in every freaking post.
I see a very sad man, there, Spitfire. I tried to ignore your insolence, kid, but this was just way too rude.

I like CE characters, I admit. So I tend to participate in the discussions that involve them, which is the case in this thread for the last a couple of posts since Demongod stated his opinion on 00 and a bunch of haters raised their howls of discomfort about his words.

Learn your etiquette before offending people who try to be polite to others but all they got is the intollerant notions the kind you gave above.
Sir Dearka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 15:05   Link #3137
Spitfire
Mr. Bushido
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post

I like CE characters, I admit. So I tend to participate in the discussions that involve them, which is the case in this thread for the last a couple of posts since Demongod stated his opinion on 00 and a bunch of haters raised their howls of discomfort about his words.
I do love your hypocrisy. You constantly say that those of us who speak up against CE are haters and we should give it a rest, yet I know you yourself constantly speak up against series like Turn A and other Gundam series you don't like.

Don't call us haters, unless you don't mind being called a hater yourself.

Oh, and was your comment on my post really neccesary? A sad man? I hardly think so. I'm pretty happy currently. The only reason I said what I said is because sadly...its true. You bring up CE and its characters EVERY chance you get, even when its not part of the topic...such as this moment. It just seems like you have this weird fixation with CE characters.

I think we've gone off topic enough.
__________________
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 15:14   Link #3138
Sir Dearka
Inglourious Buster
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I do love your hypocrisy. You constantly say that those of us who speak up against CE are haters and we should give it a rest, yet I know you yourself constantly speak up against series like Turn A and other Gundam series you don't like.

Don't call us haters, unless you don't mind being called a hater yourself.

Oh, and was your comment on my post really neccesary? A sad man? I hardly think so. I'm pretty happy currently. The only reason I said what I said is because sadly...its true. You bring up CE and its characters EVERY chance you get, even when its not part of the topic...such as this moment.

I think we've gone off topic enough.
I've never said Turn A was a bad series. At least not "constantly" as you are trying to impute here. Even if I thought so, I never attacked its fans. U did it to the so-called "CE-generation". It's no surprise you don't see the difference 'cause the only hypocrite here is you.

And what's the other Gundam series you talk about? lol

Well, the problem with you is not your opinions. It is thew WAY you express themYou can live in your little "happy" world and hate the series you hate. Just DON'T be rude. This should really go to moderators as you don't even seem to realize that you just offended someone for no reason. 'Cause I did pretty much what others did here so far: comparing 00 to SEED. Even if the fact I like SEED irritates you, you just could say: "stop saying it all the time, because it annoys me". Simple, straightforward and acceptable form. Contrary to "We know that you have a boner for CE and its characters, but we don't need to be reminded of it in every freaking post."
Sir Dearka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 15:18   Link #3139
Spitfire
Mr. Bushido
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
I've never said Turn A was a bad series. At least not "constantly" as you are trying to impute here. Even if I thought so, I never attacked its fans. U did. It's no surprise you don't see the difference 'cause the only hypocrite here is you.
Funny, I seem to remember you saying otherwise(just not on this forum).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
Even if the fact I like SEED irritates you,
Funny....I don't ever remember saying that. Might want to stop putting words into my mouth...it doesn't help your argument.
__________________
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-26, 15:22   Link #3140
Sir Dearka
Inglourious Buster
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Funny, I seem to remember you saying otherwise(just not on this forum).
I said it once. After watching 5 episodes of the series (your influence, btw) I just said that maybe it is not a series for me. And I stated why. And despite you having complained all the time about the lack og MG this or that from Turn A, I've never said "I know you have a boner for the mecha of this series... etc etc." Now who's the hypocrote here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Funny....I don't ever remember saying that. Might want to stop putting words into my mouth...it doesn't help your argument.
You did not have to say it. I just felt it. Thanks to you attacking me all the time just for talking about my favorite series.
Sir Dearka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
spoilers

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.