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Old 2007-12-31, 04:29   Link #581
grey_moon
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Last time I looked into it, the recommended data retention for CDRW was ~ 1 year.
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Old 2007-12-31, 04:43   Link #582
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Last time I looked into it, the recommended data retention for CDRW was ~ 1 year.
Does that mean that after 1 year, the data should be erase and reburn, or after 1 year, the disc with data on it should be thrown away?

In any case, any suggestions on a program that tracks Internet connection?

EDIT: I have never tried any other distros beside Ubuntu but in here, it seems like Fedora 8 has a pretty good release. Just curious whether anyone here give it a try yet?

Quite unrelated but since Fedora is a rpm-based distro, I'm just curious why Ubuntu doesn't natively support rpm alongside with debian. Quite a few things I've seen are provided through rpm format (proprietary graphic driver, for example), so is there any technical issues beneath that prevent them from doing that? (or for that matter, why rpm-based distros don't support debian package natively. Actually, I don't know if they do, though)
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2007-12-31 at 08:37.
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Old 2007-12-31, 10:05   Link #583
SeijiSensei
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I've used every Fedora release since FC1; right now I'm typing on an F8 machine. I'm having one problem with it concerning NFS mounts that I didn't have in earlier versions, but otherwise it's fine. I have a bunch of postings on Fedora throughout this thread. One of them details the methods required to get the codecs and players to watch anime and to install the proprietary video drivers.

As for using rpm's, look into the "alien" command on Debian/Ubuntu. I believe it either installs rpm's directly or converts them to debs.

If you read Slashdot you'll find lots of fruitless debates about whether debs are better than rpms, whether Debian/Ubuntu is better than RedHat/Fedora, whether GNOME is better than KDE, etc., etc. I find that once you have a Linux distro installed you'd be hard-pressed to know which one it is after you've logged into your desktop.
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Old 2007-12-31, 10:12   Link #584
WanderingKnight
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Package managers are package managers--i.e., they do all the same job. What I've often heard mentioned is that there was a time when there weren't good rpm package managers and thus apt was some kind of god, but that right now there aren't any groundbreaking differences between them. The main difference between distros, IMO, lie within the repositories. In fact, that's what made OpenSUSE bothering to use: their limited repositories. I found myself hunting for software (something I don't do often anymore since I switched to Linux) way too many times with OpenSUSE. Ubuntu uses a custom snapshot of the Debian Sid (unstable) repositories, which are arguably the biggest ones around... but I've also heard Fedora has some pretty big ones, too (the biggest ones right after Debian). Of course, I've never tried it (which makes me remember I have to do it some day ), so I really couldn't tell you what's it like.
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Old 2007-12-31, 14:25   Link #585
Vexx
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Okay... small report back on the Studio Ubuntu package.... I discovered the problem was that the "live disk startup then install" method was what was hwarfing -- and that the live-disk startup was pretty fragile (it couldn't deal with either the HP laptop hardware nor the Shuttle-X hardware) plus it was trying to automatically do functions out of order (e.g. auto-adjusting the system clock when it didn't have rights, auto-adjusting desktop settings when it didn't have rights, etc).

Doing an old-fashioned text-based install instead gave me perfectly functioning results. Problem is, that choice is number 5 on the list and the descriptions don't lead the average person that way.
So, using a layperson perspective, I give -1 for the live-disk problems and -5 for the ('to the layperson') uninformative menu choices on boot and when the Studio packages are chosen. They have lots of room on the screen --- they *could* be more informative. Its the little touches that make critical differences to recruiting more of the Joe and Jane public.

As for the Studio package set itself, it is mostly geared towards actual production of audio and video product. I won't bother listing what it installs because for most people who simply want to:
1) watch video or dvd
2) rip and/or listen to audio
3) strip audio out of video
4) frame-capture
(the usual fan activities)
... Studio is a fair amount of overkill. For the garage band musician or budding remixer/DJ or video producer (editing, stop-motion, etc) --- it is a nice collection of packages that saves a lot of "sourceforge" scavenging time. All the artist has to do now is tinker with whats onboard.

For my purposes, the Gutsy desktop plus a couple of packages is all I need for now.
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Old 2007-12-31, 22:19   Link #586
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
Does that mean that after 1 year, the data should be erase and reburn, or after 1 year, the disc with data on it should be thrown away?
1 year then erased and reburnt. I can't remember what the life of the media is with reburning through.

The recommended network tracking software is ntop, but I haven't tried it myself
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Old 2008-01-02, 03:43   Link #587
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
Quite unrelated but since Fedora is a rpm-based distro, I'm just curious why Ubuntu doesn't natively support rpm alongside with debian. Quite a few things I've seen are provided through rpm format (proprietary graphic driver, for example), so is there any technical issues beneath that prevent them from doing that? :) (or for that matter, why rpm-based distros don't support debian package natively. Actually, I don't know if they do, though)
I'm not sure which came first, but under Ubuntu and Debian, you CAN do an "apt-get install alien" (I don't use, like or see the point in sudo) and turn those RPMs into DEBs.

I'm not sure how feasible it is to support both on the same system. Tracking installations would be a pain because it has to keep two databases. However, it already uses a well-proven system, APT. I don't see any reason to support RPM on the same system.

Personally, I dislike RPMs. You cannot use normal system tools to break them open. In my book, rpm(1) does NOT count as a "normal system tool", nor does a conversion tool you can get, rpm2cpio, which turns an RPM into a cpio(1) archive, when you can then run through cpio(1).

.deb files, on the other hand, can be opened with "normal system tools". You use ar(1) to extract the .deb itself which has two or more files in it, one of which being a tarball of the files that go onto the filesystem. ar(1) is part of binutils, which does not get installed by default on most Ubuntu setups, but I DO consider it to be a "normal system tool" because you need it for building software (it along with ranlib(1), also part of binutils are used to create static libraries (*.a)).

Not to mention, newer ATI driver packages have been designed to deal with the packaging system dilemma. When you download something from ATI, they then determine which system you have and adapt the installation packages to match. NVidia still uses a Loki installer system which is completely distribution-agnostic.

Though truth to tell, I tend to get ATI cards for my Windows machines and NVidia cards for my Linux boxen. With recent news about AMD releasing the specs for many of the chips out there, we may see better open-source drivers in the relatively near future (at least for the Xxxxx series-based cards as well as for older and even the newer cards (all this is based on whether DRM will live that long) to follow sometime in the future).

--Ian.

Last edited by IRJustman; 2008-01-02 at 04:07. Reason: Clarification about ATI specs
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Old 2008-01-14, 00:02   Link #588
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRJustman View Post
I'm not sure which came first, but under Ubuntu and Debian, you CAN do an "apt-get install alien" (I don't use, like or see the point in sudo) and turn those RPMs into DEBs.

I'm not sure how feasible it is to support both on the same system. Tracking installations would be a pain because it has to keep two databases. However, it already uses a well-proven system, APT. I don't see any reason to support RPM on the same system.
Well, the only reason why I would want it is because some programs for some reason only release in RPM (like ATI drivers)... It probably doesn't really matter though.


Anyway, just installed Linux Mint 4.0. Sadly, it didn't come with the "magical cure" for my connection that I had hoped it would give (to make the situation stranger, there are occasions when I get disconnected and "iwlist scan" still show the list of networks =.=;; ) Anyway, except for the different default theme, usplash screen, gdm, and preinstalled programs, Linux Mint is remarkably similar to Ubuntu. There are also a bit of other minor stuffs, and possibly more that I don't know of or aren't really apparent.

Not sure who actually bother checking them, but looks like another low price laptop will appear on the market.
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2008-01-14 at 00:40.
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Old 2008-01-14, 00:55   Link #589
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
Well, the only reason why I would want it is because some programs for some reason only release in RPM (like ATI drivers)... It probably doesn't really matter though.
As I've indicated before, ATI does not use RPM exclusively anymore. When you download their drivers, you run a script which either automatically determines or asks you what kind of system you are running, then uses your system's native package management system (if it's an RPM or DPKG system). I haven't messed with Ubuntu in this capacity lately, especially with ATI hardware to say for sure. Furthermore, I've used the packaged drivers which came with the system (you DID enable restricted, didn't you? (Assuming Mint requires you to enable it.)).

Quote:
Anyway, except for the different default theme, usplash screen, gdm, and preinstalled programs, Linux Mint is remarkably similar to Ubuntu. There are also a bit of other minor stuffs, and possibly more that I don't know of or aren't really apparent.
That's because it is Ubuntu, just packaged differently and with multimedia very firmly in mind. Several distributions use Ubuntu as its base, notably newer releases of Mepis and (ugh) Linsipre, and gOS being three of them.

Personally, I stick with actual Ubuntu (though Kubuntu or Xubuntu since I intensely dislike GNOME and their developers, and Miguel de Icaza even more) and the stuff from www.medibuntu.org that you can't get with stock Ubuntu even with all the other Ubuntu repos enabled, such as stuff encumbered by nice stuff (MP3, encumbered by patents; Xvid (MPEG-4 Part 2), encumbered by patents; H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10), endumbered by patents; and implementations of DeCSS (DVD decryption, encumbered by laws, notably the DMCA in the USA)).

--Ian.

Last edited by IRJustman; 2008-01-14 at 01:37. Reason: Added Linspire (the "ugh" is because they signed a deal with Microsoft like the one with Novell)
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Old 2008-01-14, 14:35   Link #590
Rasqual Twilight
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Hmm, nice to see you, Linux folks. Happy New Year to all and belated 'py birthday to WanderingKnight.

Right now, I'm more concerned about my firefox browsers (be it Linux or Windows) closing down abruptly. This is highly aggravating, especially when you're in the middle of uploading a large file to a free host... orz

As for Ubuntu, still on 7.04, would you recommend waiting for 8.04 rather than upgrading/installing 7.10?
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Old 2008-01-14, 15:18   Link #591
IRJustman
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Originally Posted by Rasqual Twilight View Post
As for Ubuntu, still on 7.04, would you recommend waiting for 8.04 rather than upgrading/installing 7.10?
I'm pretty happy with 7.10 myself, both in Kubuntu and Server forms. I don't think there's any harm in upgrading.

--Ian.
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Old 2008-01-14, 16:48   Link #592
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRJustman View Post
As I've indicated before, ATI does not use RPM exclusively anymore. When you download their drivers, you run a script which either automatically determines or asks you what kind of system you are running, then uses your system's native package management system (if it's an RPM or DPKG system). I haven't messed with Ubuntu in this capacity lately, especially with ATI hardware to say for sure. Furthermore, I've used the packaged drivers which came with the system (you DID enable restricted, didn't you? (Assuming Mint requires you to enable it.)).
Really? Is it the thing when you type in the terminal "./filename"?

Also, I just used ATI driver as an example. There are also other programs that are released exclusively in RPM...

Quote:
That's because it is Ubuntu, just packaged differently and with multimedia very firmly in mind. Several distributions use Ubuntu as its base, notably newer releases of Mepis and (ugh) Linsipre, and gOS being three of them.

Personally, I stick with actual Ubuntu (though Kubuntu or Xubuntu since I intensely dislike GNOME and their developers, and Miguel de Icaza even more) and the stuff from www.medibuntu.org that you can't get with stock Ubuntu even with all the other Ubuntu repos enabled, such as stuff encumbered by nice stuff (MP3, encumbered by patents; Xvid (MPEG-4 Part 2), encumbered by patents; H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10), endumbered by patents; and implementations of DeCSS (DVD decryption, encumbered by laws, notably the DMCA in the USA)).

--Ian.
Yea, I know it's based on Ubuntu. But after looking at the Linux Mint thread in Ubuntu forum and see how people praise it, I thought the change would be more drastic than that. Granted, a lot of praises involve stability issues and things behind the scene, hence why I said "and possibly more that I don't know of or aren't really apparent."

Well, I'm gonna go back to Ubuntu when 8.4 gets released to try Kubuntu. I was hoping for a stability since Hardy is a LTS release, but sadly right when I was planning to try KDE for the next version, they unexpectedly remove the LTS status for Kubuntu. Not a big deal of loss to me though; however, I hope that KDE 4.1 gets released by then since I've read that most of the changes that are apparent to users will be in that version.
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Old 2008-01-14, 22:03   Link #593
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
Really? Is it the thing when you type in the terminal "./filename"?

Also, I just used ATI driver as an example. There are also other programs that are released exclusively in RPM...
Ah, fair enough. The NVidia drivers were like that for a while, but then got the Loki treatment (it doesn't use the system's package management at all).

ATI, I believe (and if I'm not TOTALLY mistaken; someone please correct me if I am), uses a Loki script as well, but implemented a bit differently.

Quote:
Well, I'm gonna go back to Ubuntu when 8.4 gets released to try Kubuntu. I was hoping for a stability since Hardy is a LTS release, but sadly right when I was planning to try KDE for the next version, they unexpectedly remove the LTS status for Kubuntu. Not a big deal of loss to me though; however, I hope that KDE 4.1 gets released by then since I've read that most of the changes that are apparent to users will be in that version.
I've been with KDE even since before becoming a Debian user in '01 or so. I have found GNOME's development to totally lack direction in terms of the completed product. I notice that the product undergoes radical changes with just about each major release. KDE, on the other hand, has been pretty straightforward at the outset. It's been consistent from release to release. Yes, bits of chrome are added here and there, but the overall look and feel has remained very consistent. GNOME, on the other hand, has undergone at least THREE CHANGES OF DEFAULT WINDOW MANAGER throughout its lifetime!

--Ian.

Last edited by IRJustman; 2008-01-15 at 11:06. Reason: Additional clarification regarding KDE's consistency and GNOME's near-complete lack thereof
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Old 2008-01-22, 20:31   Link #594
mario1234
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Ok so I just put Ubuntu 7.10 on my Dell Inspirton 1501 laptop.
Everything worked fine, yada yada....

But one issue- no internet. It can't connect.

What I do with all the laptops in the house (which is this one and one other dell) is connect them via our home wireless network. They connect fine in Vista and XP....the connection is definitely fine, cause that's how I'm posting this...

It just won't work in Ubuntu.

I'm 99% sure it's some driver incompatibility....but I dunno how to get around it, especially seeing as I don't really know the specs on the wireless stuff in the Dell's since they worked straight out of the box....

Any solutions?
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Old 2008-01-22, 22:30   Link #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Package managers are package managers--i.e., they do all the same job. What I've often heard mentioned is that there was a time when there weren't good rpm package managers and thus apt was some kind of god, but that right now there aren't any groundbreaking differences between them.
Back in the land before time I used Redhat 9 on my desktop. At the time yum didn't exist so you had to find all the dependencies yourself for RPMs. Wasn't fun. apt-get was great comparatively.
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Old 2008-01-23, 00:01   Link #596
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mario1234 View Post
Ok so I just put Ubuntu 7.10 on my Dell Inspirton 1501 laptop.
Everything worked fine, yada yada....

But one issue- no internet. It can't connect.

What I do with all the laptops in the house (which is this one and one other dell) is connect them via our home wireless network. They connect fine in Vista and XP....the connection is definitely fine, cause that's how I'm posting this...

It just won't work in Ubuntu.

I'm 99% sure it's some driver incompatibility....but I dunno how to get around it, especially seeing as I don't really know the specs on the wireless stuff in the Dell's since they worked straight out of the box....

Any solutions?
Do you happen to know which wireless interface it has? Another solution to find out who makes your wireless interface is to open a terminal then do an "lspci". Usually, Marvell, SiS, Broadcom and a few others require you to use something like ndiswrapper along with a Windows driver.

The reason you may have to resort to ndiswrapper is because some wireless vendors don't want to give out specs for fear they could be subverted into breaking FCC regs, which I suppose I can understand. However, from what I gather, the FCC has loosened up some of the regulations for which information for wireless chipsets can be made available so more open-source drivers can be written to work with OSes like various Linux distributions, the BSDs, and more recently, OpenSolaris. Much as I don't like Theo de Raadt of OpenBSD infamy, he's worked very hard to get a lot more specs so wireless interfaces can be used natively with OpenBSD and, ultimately with other OSes.

Though in many cases, it's more like the situation with NVidia or ATI (though the latter is actually improving, especially more recently for newer cards) where it's either patents or trade secrets they want to preserve.

Anyway, hope this helps give you some insight into what might be going on.

--Ian.
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Old 2008-01-28, 13:07   Link #597
Dhomochevsky
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I have an annoying problem here, maybe you can help out again.

Using KUbuntu 7.10
Recently I have tried to install something using apt-get (or maybe synaptic, though thats just a gui for apt-get I think). Anyway, the installation failed.
Nothing was damaged, but now the install commands still seem to be in apt-get's "to-do list".
Everytime I install or update something, it will do that and then try to do the above mentioned installation again, which then again fails everytime. So any use of apt-get will lead to an error in the end and an "installation failed" message.

This does never affect the actual installation/update I start apt-get for, but it is very irritating.

Any idea on how I can clear these pending tasks out of apt-get?
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Old 2008-01-28, 13:30   Link #598
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
I have an annoying problem here, maybe you can help out again.

Using KUbuntu 7.10
Recently I have tried to install something using apt-get (or maybe synaptic, though thats just a gui for apt-get I think). Anyway, the installation failed.
Nothing was damaged, but now the install commands still seem to be in apt-get's "to-do list".
Everytime I install or update something, it will do that and then try to do the above mentioned installation again, which then again fails everytime. So any use of apt-get will lead to an error in the end and an "installation failed" message.

This does never affect the actual installation/update I start apt-get for, but it is very irritating.

Any idea on how I can clear these pending tasks out of apt-get?
Curious, have you tried bringing up a console so you can do a manual apt-get install? If it runs into problems, it'll tell you right then and there what's happening, perhaps even suggesting a course of action. If anything, you might post the error message you're getting here so we can see what's happening.

Thanks!

--Ian.
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Old 2008-01-28, 15:58   Link #599
Dhomochevsky
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Yes, I usually use apt-get out of the console.

I will see if I can get the error message, but to get it I need to install or update something. Lets see if I find anything, will edit it in here.

The point is: the error message might tell me why the install of those (two) packages fails.
But I dont want to install them anymore. I dont even know anymore, why I wanted to install them in the first place. I did that a month ago. I just want apt-get to stop trying to install them every time I use it...
There seems to be a list of tasks, that apt-get uses to remember things to do and those two tasks are on it and never get removed. I would like to somehow clear that list.
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Old 2008-01-28, 16:03   Link #600
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
Yes, I usually use apt-get out of the console.

I will see if I can get the error message, but to get it I need to install or update something. Lets see if I find anything, will edit it in here.

The point is: the error message might tell me why the install of those (two) packages fails.
But I dont want to install them anymore. I dont even know anymore, why I wanted to install them in the first place. I did that a month ago. I just want apt-get to stop trying to install them every time I use it...
There seems to be a list of tasks, that apt-get uses to remember things to do and those two tasks are on it and never get removed. I would like to somehow clear that list.
It sounds like it might be installing them to satisfy a dependency. It'd help a lot to know which application you're trying to install and the ones you don't want installed.

--Ian.
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