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Old 2012-08-26, 17:56   Link #4121
StrikeFreedomV2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Compare that to all the other couples, compare it to Kira and Fllay's interactions.

That isn't enough. Kira has done much more couple things with Athrun than just Lacus resting her head on her friends shoulder. If anything Kira x Athrun has more grounds than Lacus anything with how emotionless she is with anyone. Atleast with those two guys you can tell that they love and care for each other.
Relationships aren't all about kissing and having sex, you know
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Old 2012-08-26, 18:04   Link #4122
Destined_Fate
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Who said anything about sex? They can share the same bed and not have them having sex infront of the kids. The problem is that Lacus is detached of all emotion in almost her entire screentime and that shoulder thing is the closest thing out of any of her interactions that she may have feelings for Kira and that Kira didn't just settle for her because Fllay died.
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Old 2012-08-26, 18:15   Link #4123
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Well, one of Flays and Kiras interactions involved sex. It was her way to manipulate him. But this being about Lacus: In most of her scenes with Kira it's pretty evident Lacus has feelings for him. The scene when they reunite on the Eternal in episode 39 comes to mind. Or back in SEED, where Lacus gave Kira that ring and begged him to return to her. That alone made it clear that she has feelings for Kira.
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Old 2012-08-26, 18:25   Link #4124
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I've been saying this the whole time:

Kira's romance arc with Flay and Lacus is Fukuda's version of Loran's romance arc with Sochie and Dianna.
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Old 2012-08-26, 20:59   Link #4125
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Not exactly, Fllay plays the same role that Sochie played but they're worlds apart in characterization and Sochie didn't die so the other girl could have a chance.
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Old 2012-08-26, 23:09   Link #4126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrikeFreedomV2 View Post
Well, one of Flays and Kiras interactions involved sex. It was her way to manipulate him. But this being about Lacus: In most of her scenes with Kira it's pretty evident Lacus has feelings for him. The scene when they reunite on the Eternal in episode 39 comes to mind. Or back in SEED, where Lacus gave Kira that ring and begged him to return to her. That alone made it clear that she has feelings for Kira.
In SEED, whatever feelings Lacus had for Kira was just pretty "evident" when she gave him that ring. Before that, there never was anything that set her up to be OHMYGODI'MSOINLOVEWITHTHISGUY XDDDD, what we do have is that she did tell Athrun she liked Kira (she was pretty ambiguous whether she liked him because he was just nice and not because he was just a Coordinator being nice with a fellow Coordinator), then to the last episodes we have of SEED we have Lacus suddenly and literally throwing herself at Kira, complete with all that begging and wistful crying on the side and all that jazz. I don't really get it why Lacus HAD to comfort Kira for crying out loud, Cagalli was more appropriate for that (because she actually knew what he was going through, she was mostly there with him when he had to go through all that). In the blank space between then and there, it was just simply left blank, nothing to embellish the fact that she did fall in love with Kira at some point. We are just simply left to assume/forced to think that there were feelings because they "ended" up together and Fllay is dead.
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Old 2012-08-26, 23:15   Link #4127
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Translation: The only well-done healthy relationship depictions in SEED are still Mu/Murrue and Andrew/Aisha.
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Old 2012-08-26, 23:27   Link #4128
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In the blank space between then and there, it was just simply left blank, nothing to embellish the fact that she did fall in love with Kira at some point. We are just simply left to assume/forced to think that there were feelings because they "ended" up together and Fllay is dead.
To rub even more salt to this, Kira even hallucinates that Lacus was Fllay.
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Old 2012-08-26, 23:45   Link #4129
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
To rub even more salt to this, Kira even hallucinates that Lacus was Fllay.
What episode was this?

I also read in your 2008 post that this was retconned in the SE Movies. I hope that it doesn't carry over in the HD Remaster.
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Old 2012-08-26, 23:49   Link #4130
monster
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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
In SEED, whatever feelings Lacus had for Kira was just pretty "evident" when she gave him that ring. Before that, there never was anything that set her up to be OHMYGODI'MSOINLOVEWITHTHISGUY XDDDD, what we do have is that she did tell Athrun she liked Kira (she was pretty ambiguous whether she liked him because he was just nice and not because he was just a Coordinator being nice with a fellow Coordinator), then to the last episodes we have of SEED we have Lacus suddenly and literally throwing herself at Kira, complete with all that begging and wistful crying on the side and all that jazz.
Before Mu kissed Murrue, there was nothing that sets him up to be in love with her. Yet all of a sudden, he went back and kissed her and they're a couple.
Quote:
I don't really get it why Lacus HAD to comfort Kira for crying out loud, Cagalli was more appropriate for that (because she actually knew what he was going through, she was mostly there with him when he had to go through all that).
It didn't have to be Lacus, but she was there and Athrun pulled Cagalli out of the room.
Quote:
In the blank space between then and there, it was just simply left blank, nothing to embellish the fact that she did fall in love with Kira at some point. We are just simply left to assume/forced to think that there were feelings because they "ended" up together and Fllay is dead.
That's good enough for me.
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Translation: The only well-done healthy relationship depictions in SEED are still Mu/Murrue
See my response above to Eidolon Sniper.
Quote:
and Andrew/Aisha.
Let's see:

Andrew/Aisha: Was never seen kissing, lived together, was seen hugging, accepted as a couple.

Kira/Lacus: Was never seen kissing, lived together, was seen hugging, not accepted as a couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
To rub even more salt to this, Kira even hallucinates that Lacus was Fllay.
Sure, at that moment. Kira would probably still hallucinate if Mu's was the first face he saw after waking up.
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Old 2012-08-26, 23:57   Link #4131
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Before Mu kissed Murrue, there was nothing that sets him up to be in love with her. Yet all of a sudden, he went back and kissed her and they're a couple.
Actually, Mu and Murrue's relationship development is a lot closer to how real life relationships usually play out, military aspect aside. Not every relationship is full of deep philosophical moments and sappy shit--sometimes its just flirting and good times and spontaneity.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:01   Link #4132
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Actually, Mu and Murrue's relationship development is a lot closer to how real life relationships usually play out, military aspect aside. Not every relationship is full of deep philosophical moments and sappy shit--sometimes its just flirting nd good times and spontaneity.
I actually have nothing against that. But to question Lacus's supposedly sudden showing of interest in Kira when she has obviously shown more interest in Kira all along than Mu has in Murrue just doesn't seem fair to me.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:06   Link #4133
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It is, again, a matter of how it was depicted. Starting out with a lot of ambiguous airheadedness, then... nothing, because she's not around. And then that's followed by caring for the wounded and "Let's stay like this forever" literally out of left field (even Kira's going "where the hell did that come from?" in his expression) and then... nothing, because she's, once again, not around. And then suddenly the tears and the hold me and the really, really jarring jumps in development and then suddenly in the end they're a couple.

And everyone's left going "What?" (except for the Japanese, who apparently eat this shit up.)
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:17   Link #4134
monster
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
It is, again, a matter of how it was depicted. Starting out with a lot of ambiguous airheadedness,
You forgot the chance to see a side of Kira not many knew.
Quote:
then... nothing, because she's not around.
Absence sometimes makes you think of that other person more.
Quote:
And then that's followed by caring for the wounded and "Let's stay like this forever" literally out of left field (even Kira's going "where the hell did that come from?" in his expression)
So she got to know more about him and found out that she likes being around him.
Quote:
and then... nothing, because she's, once again, not around.
Because Kira had something he wanted to do and she has to do what she can do.
Quote:
And then suddenly the tears and the hold me
Because of her father's death and Kira's own problems.
Quote:
and the really, really jarring jumps in development
It's only jarring if you choose to keep ignoring what they've been through together and separately.
Quote:
and then suddenly in the end they're a couple.
Not suddenly, over some time actually. In fact, a lot of people complain that their relationship is actually moving too slowly.
Quote:
And everyone's left going "What?" (except for the Japanese, who apparently eat this shit up.)
And apparently me.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:18   Link #4135
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Sure, at that moment. Kira would probably still hallucinate if Mu's was the first face he saw after waking up.
But Kira'd probably Hallucinate it was Athrun then.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:19   Link #4136
monster
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But Kira'd probably Hallucinate it was Athrun then.
Um, why would he hallucinate about Athrun? Athrun's there already.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:20   Link #4137
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I don't remember Kira seeing Fllay through Lacus... Even if it did happen at least they didn't have Shinn see his sister or Stella through Lunamaria. That would have just been awkward considering that even with Stella he treated her like the sister that he lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Translation: The only well-done healthy relationship depictions in SEED are still Mu/Murrue and Andrew/Aisha.
Andrew isn't healthy, he still hasn't moved on from Aisha. Mwu also is way too suicidal to consider that healthy.

Lacus and Kira sorta just happened. Which they again did in Destiny when the best friends, Lunamaria and Shinn, suddenly get together after Athrun and Luna's sister are thought dead by Shinn's hand.

The writers seemed unable to get the main lovers together in a realistic way after the first love died off. Such as Shinn being too focused of Stella's death and not noticing that Lunamaria can be more than just a best friend until after more people die and they're both grieving.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:25   Link #4138
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
*snip*
You missed my point (and some of yours don't even make sense). My point is that it was handled really fucking badly as far as depictions go. It's made especially jarring given how we get better relationship development depictions from practically everyone fucking else, including Kira!

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Andrew isn't healthy, he still hasn't moved on from Aisha. Mwu also is way too suicidal to consider that healthy.
Well with Aisha dead, it's not really a relationship anymore, is it? And where the hell is this bit about Mu being suicidal coming from?

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Lacus and Kira sorta just happened. Which they again did in Destiny when the best friends, Lunamaria and Shinn, suddenly get together after Athrun and Luna's sister are thought dead by Shinn's hand.
Shinn and Luna at least have the excuse of them entering the relationship as bonding over a really hard time. Which is still diluted to fuck when you consider that the really hard time was Shinn killing her little sister and her crush for being traitors. That said, it's definitely not what you'd call a healthy relationship, though they seem to stabilize after finding out that Meyrin was indeed alive and well.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:32   Link #4139
monster
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You missed my point (and some of yours don't even make sense).
Which ones?
Quote:
My point is that it was handled really fucking badly as far as depictions go. It's made especially jarring given how we get better relationship development depictions from practically everyone fucking else, including Kira!
My point is that there was development there, some people just choose to ignore it.
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Shinn and Luna at least have the excuse of them entering the relationship as bonding over a really hard time.
And Kira and Lacus never had a hard time that they could bond over? Do you see what I mean about ignoring stuff?
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:40   Link #4140
Rising Dragon
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My point is that there was development there, some people just choose to ignore it.
My point wasn't about the development (or the lack thereof in some cases), my point is that they picked a shit way of showing it and that hurts the development itself.

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Originally Posted by monster View Post
And Kira and Lacus never had a hard time that they could bond over? Do you see what I mean about ignoring stuff?
I wasn't comparing the two couples, so don't fucking put words in my mouth. I was pointing out that they actually gave a halfassed attempt at trying to depict it properly and it was still shit because of all the things they could've done to make them bond over a tough moment, they pick the one thing that wouldn't fucking work.
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