AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-10-31, 19:10   Link #5181
Aquaman OS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Lacus didn't commit any crimes in Seed, beyond not supporting a campaign of genocide. If anything crimes were commited against her since her father was basically murdered by Patrick Zala's guys for not agreeing to kill all naturals.

Plus they didn't hide. They all made public apperances at the peace talks at the end of the Seed war. The TSA got to walk away from their desertion charges because nobody in their right mind could possibly tell them with a straight face that what they did was wrong. (How dare you not allow yourself to be conviniently killed by your own higher ups for not supporting their genocidal plans)

They just went to Orb because they pretty much lost all their friends and reasons for returning to their homelands. Kira and Cagalli's home was Orb and Athrun Andy and Lacus went back because all their friends and family in Plant were dead, and nothing but painful memories were left. Same with the EA Archangel crew.
Aquaman OS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 19:29   Link #5182
zeroexia
he is a CHAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Good that others here share similar views as me when it comes to things as this even if you may not agree with everything I say.

Durandal has more of a right than Kira. At least he was in a position of power, won the war, and had a wide array of support while the Lacus Clyne faction had very little support, were rebels, and had attacked all sides in the war regardless of their positions.

Besides, the war would have gotten far worse had Durandal not been in charge and revealed that it was Logos that caused the hate and that Normals weren't really at fault(So it no longer became a race war in an instant when he revealed that all sides were being manipulated by Logos). That and him using Meer was what stopped ZAFT from going back to crazy SEED versions.

Had he done nothing, as Lacus and Kira chose to do, than the war would have dragged out and the death tolls would be ridiculously larger with Logos never being revealed. After all almost no one knew about Logos let alone did they have the power to oppose them like Durandal had.

Don't forget that it was also Durandal's forces that united Normals and Coordinators at long last and it was his forces that took out Logos who were the true manipulators that stood in the way of any progress.

His only mistake was attacking Lacus when she was no threat at that time. Though he was right to fear her considering that her force took out the Feds and ZAFT in the last war as rebels and that she had went into hiding instead of womaning up to her many crimes and being judged in a court of law. Which I'm sure, had she done that, she wouldn't have been punished at all considering that she's still widely popular in ZAFT hence why Meer was able to impersonate her to great effect.

That and she represented the very rebellious tendencies he wanted to remove and if she revealed herself he couldn't use Meer to calm the people. Which is exactly what happened.

And yes, as with all Revolutions those in power must be "convinced" to embrace change or they will never move away from a system that currently benefits only them.
If it wasn't clear enough to everybody here, Lacus, Kira, and the rest of the Three Ship Alliance are criminals should be judged in a court of law. Oh, they weren't really heroes for stopping the last war and for stopping the destruction of both the Earth and Plants. It's not like they stopped those nukes from hitting the plants or from Genesis destroying all life on Earth.

Also Durandal's exposure of LOGOS, did not cause wide-spread panic and riots but actually improved the condition of the Earth. And using Meer as a fake and trying to kill Lacus to cover up the truth was fine though because Meer "stopped ZAFT from going back to crazy SEED versions. "

You know, those crazy SEED versions where they had a death laser. I mean Durandal never had a death laser or two and he never killed his own men, did he? And he never threatened to wipe Orb off the face of the Earth for not following his Destiny plan.

And he never had a spy in LOGOS, whose sister instigated the Junius 7 drop. That never happened.

No, no, no. Instead he peacefully announced a Destiny Plan that wouldn't have favored Coordinators and the Plants at all over the perfectly not destroyed Earth even though Coordinators have genetically-engineered dominance over naturals.

And of course "Durandal has more of a right than Kira. At least he was in a position of power, won the war, and had a wide array of support " It's not like he didn't kill almost of his opposition and was about to use those death lasers he didn't have to destroy Orb.

No, Durandal was not a Char and was actually the savior of mankind that would have ushered in a new age if it wasn't for the pesky Lacus, Kira and their stupid Alliance.

All hail Durundal. Let us have a moment of silence for him. His Destiny Plan would have solved everything even if it meant killing millions of people. Such deaths were necessary for the advancement of the human race because "those in power must be"convinced" to embrace change or they will never move away from a system that currently benefits only them." All hail the High Priest, I mean the perfectly non-dictatorial Durundal who is not a Char.
zeroexia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 20:08   Link #5183
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Lacus didn't commit any crimes in Seed, beyond not supporting a campaign of genocide. If anything crimes were commited against her since her father was basically murdered by Patrick Zala's guys for not agreeing to kill all naturals.

Plus they didn't hide. They all made public apperances at the peace talks at the end of the Seed war. The TSA got to walk away from their desertion charges because nobody in their right mind could possibly tell them with a straight face that what they did was wrong. (How dare you not allow yourself to be conviniently killed by your own higher ups for not supporting their genocidal plans)

They just went to Orb because they pretty much lost all their friends and reasons for returning to their homelands. Kira and Cagalli's home was Orb and Athrun Andy and Lacus went back because all their friends and family in Plant were dead, and nothing but painful memories were left. Same with the EA Archangel crew.
Did you not watch SEED? She stole a Gundam, advocated her people go against the current regime through underhanded means(Not once did she try to oppose Patrick through official means), encouraged dissent during war, stole the Eternal, established a force that fought against ZAFT and the such on top of contributing to the death of the past Supreme Councilor of ZAFT. Those are severe crimes and she should have been forced to answer for them. Regardless what she thinks MANY of Zaft supported Patrick or he wouldn't have even got into power.

Yes they could. No matter the end result it doesn't change the fact that Lacus broke MANY LAWS and contributed in the war effort against her own people that resulted in the deaths of many. There is simply no denying it and if this was in real life she would have been detained immediately and made to answer for her many crimes even if she was in the right or not. You don't just get to steal a WMD like a Gundam(With an N-Jammer Canceler) and a Warship(With highly secret technology like the METEORS) and get away scot free. Especially not when you actively rebel against the Government not once but twice which has resulted in the death of two Supreme Counselors.

But of course Miss Perfect Lacus is never meant to be judged for her many crimes and gets away just fine because SEED was never meant to be realistic and overly idealistic and naive fools always get their wishes despite all logic going against them.

That's not true. Lacus was in hiding that's why Meer was able to impersonate her. No one in ZAFT knew where she was anymore except Durandal and his team. They were taken by surprise of Lacus(Meer) suddenly returning and actually caring for her people again while she abandoned them after SEED. And no, Athrun had plenty of friends left and was still considered a war hero by Destiny with much of his true crimes kept secret to save ZAFT face. THe only reason he stayed was because he wanted to support Cagalli since Kira obviously wouldn't and went into hiding and obscurity with Lacus while the world went to hell. Kira even admits later on that his inaction was stupid and that it was his responsibility to maintain the peace not just live in it and hope for the best.

The Archangel crew were pardoned despite deserting and stealing a war ship. That's my a certain reporter is allowed free reign despite being a part of the Archangel crew. The ones that stayed took up jobs in Orb and keep a low profile hence why when the Minerva was docked no one knew who they were or that they were a part of the Archangel crew.
Destined_Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 20:14   Link #5184
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
(Not once did she try to oppose Patrick through official means)
That's because the guy had lost his marbles and was going to execute her if she showed up in public. She didn't have a whole lot of options there. Seriously, did you even actually watch Gundam SEED?
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 20:24   Link #5185
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Heroes or not they broke multiple laws, conducted war against all the factions, and than went into hiding by Destiny without ever answering for their crimes. No one even tries to prosecute them or to at least get Lacus to explain her actions which she never did since she believes she's above being held accountable by anyone.

ZAFT is owed an explanation for the stolen Gundam and Eternal, it doesn't matter her reasoning she broke many laws, abused her authority, and advocated that the people move against the Government of PLANTS, which was acting in the best interest of their people due to Federation aggression, during the middle of a war.

All you just did was reinforce my statement that Durandal revealing Logos, since no one else knew or had the will to do it, made everything better and united Normals and Coordinators against a common enemy. That is something no other character in the Cosmic Era has ever accomplished at such a magnitude.

Of course people died, they were Logos supporters and people were rightfully angry and immediately acted to remove them from power(As was their right, no one put a gun to their heads and told them to bring down Logos. Humanity decided on their own to act after learning the truth) before they can escape(Which some did manage to do which lead to even more deaths than were needed than had they just been killed). Not one tear was shed over the deaths of those monsters that helped instigate multiple race wars that cost the lives of billions as well as advocating the nuking of the PLANTS multiple times.

Yes, it was fine because just as Durandal predicted Lacus, being the rebel and traitor that she is, rebelled against ZAFT yet again and ruined his ability to use Meer who so far was only used to advocate against war and to bring people together.

Now what did Lacus do? Oh right, she confused and instigated the people and due to her interventions the leader of Logos was able to escape Orb and cause mass genocide for much longer. Had the Lacus Clyne force stayed out of Orb than Logos would have ended right than and there since Shinn was easily kicking the crude out of the Orb and Logos forces. So the deaths of those that followed were all on Lacus and Kira's shoulders.

Instead they decided that they should defend Orb despite the fact that they're protecting a War Criminal and the Mastermind of Logos. Not once did the Lacus Clyne force even TRY to go after that monster. In fact the whole point of the Battle of Orb was them getting in the way of the ZAFT(who had the support of the entire Earth and PLANTS) from taking out Logos because "Stop attacking Orb! So what if they're housing the Leader of Logos and refuse to calls of the rest of humanity to hand him over for trial?! Its making Cagalli cry and Lacus disagrees!" is perfectly justified, right?

Had Orb just kicked that monster out than ZAFT wouldn't have invaded them at all. Obviously they didn't and due to Kira's naivety he decided that ZAFT was evil for attacking Orb, which ZAFT was more than justified in(Everyone supported the Invasion but the Lacus Clyne force), and that Logos wasn't worth going after hence why he did nothing even after this to stop that monster and it was Durandal forces that had to go take out Logos in space much later. That alone shows that Kira never had his prioritizes straight in Destiny and his naivety resulted in the deaths of many.

No it wasn't a death laser. It was Durandal's tool to force the unwilling to accept a new system that was shown to work. Once again I must repeat that Revolution is never easy, those in power will never accept change willingly, and Durandal needed a way to enforce his will if the Destiny Plan was ever to succeed. Thus he was justified in his actions in having that weapon which he would only use to those that rebelled and wanted to cause more wars instead of embracing what most of humanity believed was a great idea that was WORKING.


Also drop the sarcastic attitude. It's unneeded and very offensive. You can disagree but that is beyond disagreeing and is just plain offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
That's because the guy had lost his marbles and was going to execute her if she showed up in public. She didn't have a whole lot of options there. Seriously, did you even actually watch Gundam SEED?
Yes I did. Had Lacus never went into hiding than her life would never have been at stake since Durandal couldn't afford to kill her publicly. Since he knew she was a rebel and a traitor that would never work for the greater good he decided that she was a huge threat. Which, as Destiny has shown, she was a huge threat and just like in SEED she attacks ZAFT and once more brings about the death of yet another Supreme Counselor.

The only reason Durandal needed Meer was because of the influence Lacus used to have and the fact that Lacus was in hiding and refused to take responsibility for anything she has ever done and left ZAFT all on their own. The guy didn't have much options and without Meer the PLANTS would have reverted back into hating the Normals. So he made the right choice to bring in Meer due to the absence of Lacus.

Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-10-31 at 20:40.
Destined_Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 20:46   Link #5186
Aquaman OS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Objection. Cagalli did indeed try to locate and remove Djbril upon retaking power in Orb. In fact she'd attempted to make a ceasefire with Zaft until she found him. Zaft wasn't interested, with the commander annoyingly muttering that they were hoping Orb would fall and they could take both of them out.

I'd also like to point out that Lacus and Kira going into hiding initially is proof that they aren't evil dictactors that want world domination. If they did, they would have ceased power after the first war.
Aquaman OS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 20:51   Link #5187
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
In fact the whole point of the Battle of Orb was them getting in the way of the ZAFT(who had the support of the entire Earth and PLANTS) from taking out Logos
No, the whole point is to protect Orb. In case you didn't notice, Cagalli was trying to capture Djibril as well.
Quote:
because "Stop attacking Orb! So what if they're housing the Leader of Logos and refuse to calls of the rest of humanity to hand him over for trial?! Its making Cagalli cry and Lacus disagrees!" is perfectly justified, right?
No one is making that argument.
monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 20:59   Link #5188
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Objection. Cagalli did indeed try to locate and remove Djbril upon retaking power in Orb. In fact she'd attempted to make a ceasefire with Zaft until she found him. Zaft wasn't interested, with the commander annoyingly muttering that they were hoping Orb would fall and they could take both of them out.

I'd also like to point out that Lacus and Kira going into hiding initially is proof that they aren't evil dictactors that want world domination. If they did, they would have ceased power after the first war.
No, her priority was Orb and resisting the Justified Invasion to take out Djbri. Going after Djbril came second and it was a bad move. She should have instantly raised a white flag(And asked for a Cease Fire and state that Yuna is no longer in power and Orb doesn't support Djbri) as soon as Yuna was kicked out of power and ordered Orb to work with ZAFT to bring Djbril to justice.

However that would require a rational mind and Destiny Cagalli wasn't rational and was easily pushed around by others while in SEED she didn't take BS from anyone and actually used her head.

I never said they wanted World Domination. I said they went into hiding and pushed responsibility on others and only hoped for the best. Fact is that the PLANTS suffered a great deal from the war and seriously needed someone like Lacus in their most dire time. Had she remained, answered and was acquitted of her crimes, and worked with the people than Durandal wouldn't have to have had to go to such extremes to keep old hatreds calmed after the nuking.

He also wouldn't have needed to use Meer since he could have at least talked to Lacus and convinced her to not support war and to advocate an end of the fighting which was all Meer ever did while she impersonated Lacus.

Another thing to note is that Lacus could have offered Durandal a less extreme perspective. After all everyone around Durandal agreed with him and he was lead to believe that no matter what he was right. Even after revealing his weapon everyone still believed in him and no one offered any alternatives.
Destined_Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 21:08   Link #5189
Aquaman OS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Well if she'd totally surrendered Zaft would have occupied Orb, and then that would be it. They'd be at Durandal's mercy for whatever he wanted to do. Considering they'd spent most of the series trying to prevent this, that would fly in the face of everything she did, if she threw Orb under the bus to appease Durandal.

You're also just assuming the worst of Cagalli. We don't actually know what she said to Zaft. Just that she attempted to negotiate a ceasefire so Orb could locate Djibril without Zaft interferance and turn him over, but that the Zaft commander (not Talia, the other guy who ends up getting killed) refused, presumably (based on his comment) because he either wanted, or was under secret orders from Durandal to both conquer or destroy Orb, and take Djbril at the same time.

And considering Shinn said he was going to burn Orb to the ground when he headed out, I can't say stopping him was a bad thing. Unless you think all the Orb civillians shown wandering around (which need I remind you are in the same situation Shinn was 2 years prior) deserved to be killed.
Aquaman OS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 21:15   Link #5190
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
ZAFT wasn't there to occupy Orb nor did they say that was ever their intention. This isn't the same ZAFT as was in SEED, this was Durandal's ZAFT. Besides, taking over Orb or completely destroying it(Though targeting MS developing sites may have been part of any secrets plans) would be bad for Durandal and turn everyone against him since they would see him as a possible new dictator to replace Djbir. So it's doubtful he would take Orb nor does he even need Orb since he already has the means to get the Destiny Plan moving after Logos is taken out which also net him wide spread support by everyone for the most part.

Of course I expect the worst of her. Most of her decisions in Destiny were just plain faceplam worthy and she doesn't resembled her awesome SEED self at all. Not even Athrun was saved from being characterized horribly in Destiny.

Shinn was right to be angry, especially when Orb was making the same mistakes yet again and refused to hand over Djbri. Also, Shinn says a lot of things when he's angry. That doesn't mean he was literally going to burn Orb down(nor would Talia allow the complete destruction of a defeated country) and Shinn has shown that he hates the leaders or Orb not the innocent civilians. So innocents were never in the path for his desire to avenge his family due to Orb playing politics at the worst of times and being ridiculously stubborn. After all his family were just innocent civilians too who were caught in the middle of the decisions made the Leaders of Orb just like those caught due to Yuna's decision to shield Djbri.

Not to mention that Shinn was never shown to hate anyone just because they're from Orb, he only hates on Cagalli because she supports the same methods as her father which lead to the death of his family.

Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-10-31 at 21:51.
Destined_Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 21:43   Link #5191
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Shinn was right to be angry, especially when Orb was making the same mistakes yet again
Which, ironically, isn't the case at all.
monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 22:14   Link #5192
Soaring Griffin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Jesus Christ! I go to work for a few hours and I come back to THIS.
Soaring Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 22:29   Link #5193
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
No one is forcing you to reply to anything you know, so if you dread it so much than do yourself a favor and do something else that you enjoy.
Destined_Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 22:37   Link #5194
Soaring Griffin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
I know that. I was just surprised at the activity that happened while I was gone was all.
Soaring Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 22:53   Link #5195
zeroexia
he is a CHAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Heroes or not they broke multiple laws, conducted war against all the factions, and than went into hiding by Destiny without ever answering for their crimes. No one even tries to prosecute them or to at least get Lacus to explain her actions which she never did since she believes she's above being held accountable by anyone.

ZAFT is owed an explanation for the stolen Gundam and Eternal, it doesn't matter her reasoning she broke many laws, abused her authority, and advocated that the people move against the Government of PLANTS, which was acting in the best interest of their people due to Federation aggression, during the middle of a war.

All you just did was reinforce my statement that Durandal revealing Logos, since no one else knew or had the will to do it, made everything better and united Normals and Coordinators against a common enemy. That is something no other character in the Cosmic Era has ever accomplished at such a magnitude.

Of course people died, they were Logos supporters and people were rightfully angry and immediately acted to remove them from power(As was their right, no one put a gun to their heads and told them to bring down Logos. Humanity decided on their own to act after learning the truth) before they can escape(Which some did manage to do which lead to even more deaths than were needed than had they just been killed). Not one tear was shed over the deaths of those monsters that helped instigate multiple race wars that cost the lives of billions as well as advocating the nuking of the PLANTS multiple times.

Yes, it was fine because just as Durandal predicted Lacus, being the rebel and traitor that she is, rebelled against ZAFT yet again and ruined his ability to use Meer who so far was only used to advocate against war and to bring people together.

Now what did Lacus do? Oh right, she confused and instigated the people and due to her interventions the leader of Logos was able to escape Orb and cause mass genocide for much longer. Had the Lacus Clyne force stayed out of Orb than Logos would have ended right than and there since Shinn was easily kicking the crude out of the Orb and Logos forces. So the deaths of those that followed were all on Lacus and Kira's shoulders.

Instead they decided that they should defend Orb despite the fact that they're protecting a War Criminal and the Mastermind of Logos. Not once did the Lacus Clyne force even TRY to go after that monster. In fact the whole point of the Battle of Orb was them getting in the way of the ZAFT(who had the support of the entire Earth and PLANTS) from taking out Logos because "Stop attacking Orb! So what if they're housing the Leader of Logos and refuse to calls of the rest of humanity to hand him over for trial?! Its making Cagalli cry and Lacus disagrees!" is perfectly justified, right?

Had Orb just kicked that monster out than ZAFT wouldn't have invaded them at all. Obviously they didn't and due to Kira's naivety he decided that ZAFT was evil for attacking Orb, which ZAFT was more than justified in(Everyone supported the Invasion but the Lacus Clyne force), and that Logos wasn't worth going after hence why he did nothing even after this to stop that monster and it was Durandal forces that had to go take out Logos in space much later. That alone shows that Kira never had his prioritizes straight in Destiny and his naivety resulted in the deaths of many.

No it wasn't a death laser. It was Durandal's tool to force the unwilling to accept a new system that was shown to work. Once again I must repeat that Revolution is never easy, those in power will never accept change willingly, and Durandal needed a way to enforce his will if the Destiny Plan was ever to succeed. Thus he was justified in his actions in having that weapon which he would only use to those that rebelled and wanted to cause more wars instead of embracing what most of humanity believed was a great idea that was WORKING.


Also drop the sarcastic attitude. It's unneeded and very offensive. You can disagree but that is beyond disagreeing and is just plain offensive.


.
Drop the sarcasm, you say. I'm merely trying to show you how ridiculous you are sounding. You are ignoring facts from the show in an attempt to portray Durandal and his Destiny plan as actually good.

If you haven't noticed, Gundam characters break all the laws and nobody cares because THEY SAVE THE WORLD. Why does nobody attack them for breaking said laws, BECAUSE THEY SAVED THE WORLD. In general that's how it goes in fiction, PEOPLE DON'T PROSECUTE THOSE WHO SAVE THE WORLD.

Who did they steal the Gundams from, A MADMAN WHO WANTED TO DESTROY ALL LIFE ON EARTH.

Lacus advocated ending the war in a nonviolent manner and because of that this madman tried to kill her and actually killed her father, the original chairman. Then he takes over in a coup.

Nobody, including those in ZAFT, did not know that this madman, Chairman Zala wanted to destroy the earth with GENESIS. And guess what happens when it is revealed he GETS SHOT BY HIS OWN OFFICER. you know why, BECAUSE HE WAS EVIL.

The general public sees Lacus and the Three Ship Alliance as heroes of the war that saved the Earth and the Plants. They disregard her "crimes" because her actions resulted in saving humanity.

And by following your reasoning, if Lacus wanted to be good, then she shouldn't have broken these laws and let all of humanity die. GREAT JOB.

The point isn't that the evil LOGOS people died, it's that the rioting and mass murdering that came resulted in further destabilization of the Earth. The situation didn't improve for people on Earth merely because they killed LOGOS. They're still without power, hungry, and weak. What do you think happens when people start attacking others? MASS CHAOS. Look what happens in the real world whenever mass violence occurs.

This allows Durandal to come in and announce his DESTINY plan which is the only hope for recovery on Earth, considering the PLANTS have already won the war.

And you believe attempting to assassinate someone and trying to replace them with a fake is fine because they'll try to stop your evil plan......WTF?

Merely because Durandal is in power doesn't mean whatever he does to make his plans succeed is right.


And if you didn't know already, Orb was under the control of those allied to LOGOS. The Kira, Cagalli and Lacus weren't the ones harboring LOGOS. They go to Orb to restore order, find Djibrili, and stop the invasion of Orb. What did Cagalli do when she took control, SHE ORDERED HER SOLDIERS TO FIND DJIBRIL, she asked ZAFT to stop attacking, which they ignored.

"Stop attacking Orb! So what if they're housing the Leader of Logos and refuse to calls of the rest of humanity to hand him over for trial?! Its making Cagalli cry and Lacus disagrees!" I've never heard such nonsense uttered by any of the characters in the show. Putting quotations around it indicates you wish to pass it off as something that was said, which NEVER happened. It's merely you trying to push your misguided interpretation.

And you believe Requiem that destroyed a moon base and almost destroyed Orb is not a death laser.....And apparently NEO-GENESIS which destroys an enemy fleet and HIS OWN SOLDIERS. is not a super weapon. Don't know what counts as a death laser in your book.

And once again, the Three Ship Alliance saved lives. THE LIVES OF EVERYBODY LIVING ON ORB. If you didn't notice, Durandal was targeting Orb because they didn't want to follow his plan. And that's justifiable, next the Holocaust is justifiable according to your logic. If people don't fit in your plan, just kill them and everything will be fine.

And what indication is there that the Destiny plan will work? The system on Mars can't be used on Earth. Why? Because almost everybody on Mars was a COORDINATOR. And what is the 99% of people on Earth? Naturals. Even disregarding the totalitarian nature of the Destiny Plan, it still isn't applicable on Earth unless of course, you made everybody Coordinators.



You tell me to drop the sarcastic attitude because it's unneeded and very offensive. I ask you to reexamine your concept of what is right and wrong. You are offending me with your twisted sense of morality.

You support somebody who is akin to Hitler, Stalin, Mao and all the other great dictators of history. His Destiny Plan is merely a descendant of their great plans to shape the world in what they see fit. These people are rightly seen as evil. I do not understand how you can not see that Durandal is replicating the same actions that they did. Deciding the way humanity should be and killing anybody who would hinder his application of his vision. Now, ask yourself, Is that somebody you should follow?

If you say yes, then there's nothing that can be said anymore. You are a fool.
zeroexia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 23:22   Link #5196
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
You really aren't doing yourself any favors. Change your attitude and start treating those you disagree with with the same respect you want shown yourself. I have no obligation to reply to you and if you can't conduct yourself in a mature manner than I wont.

And a comparison to Hitler? You really need to re-evaluate yourself. Furthermore, that example is thrown out way too often for cases that aren't even remotely similar to what Hitler did.

So I suggest you take a break, come back after you've calmed down, fix up your post, and start treating others with the same respect you want shown if you wish to be acknowledged.
Destined_Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-31, 23:44   Link #5197
kaito-kid
As I make you stop, think
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Europe - The Netherlands
Age: 24
How exactly did he offend you? Was the sarcasm that offensive? I don't see anything wrong with his posts.. To be honest I think your just trying to change subject by provoking zeroexia and IIRC you did the same thing a while back in a discussion with with Rising Dragon.

If you really think that someone is being offensive then you should perhaps contact the moderator.
__________________
kaito-kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-01, 00:29   Link #5198
Aquaman OS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
He said nothing wrong. You're being just as sarcastic as him, and if you aren't going to respond to his (very well stated) points then you're just deflecting the question.

So I will very nicely and unsarcastically repeat them.

Lacus and company did nothing wrong, because they saved the world. Lacus had no ability to legitimately challenge Patrick Zala, because he was throwing a (secret) coup and killing anyone who dared oppose him. Since Siegel and Lacus were doing nothing wrong besides verbally opposing his plan, and it wasn't until he started killing them that they made a military move against him. A move that wasn't opposed when the truth came out, because when it did Patricks own people killed him and abandoned their stations. And the Plant government threw all the Zala loyalists that didn't become terrorists and go into hiding in jail. So Lacus was hailed as a hero, not a traitor.

Now you are also suggesting that it is perfectly acceptable for Durandal to assasinate or destroy anyone who would oppose his plan that would basically give him control over of the world, even firing on his own soldiers, and wiping out entire nations (Requiem was firing at Orb. Not the military, they were all in space. An Orb full of innocents like Shinn used to be that did nothing wrong beyond not wanting Durandals plan that would make him in charge of what they did for a living). When their only crime is not wanting to let him turn their lives completely upside down in favor of what he wants for them.

I'm sorry to say, but this is no different than any other dictactor in history. Hitler Stalin and all those "evil" dictators? They thought they were doing good like Durandal did. In actuality nobody every thinks what they are doing is wrong, because if they did, they wouldn't do it. Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor by killing all the Jewish, like Durandal apparantly thinks he's doing the world a favor by killing anyone who doesn't want to follow his plan.
Aquaman OS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-01, 00:32   Link #5199
Kurohane
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
And a comparison to Hitler? You really need to re-evaluate yourself. Furthermore, that example is thrown out way too often for cases that aren't even remotely similar to what Hitler did.
Of course, Durandel didn't go through weeding out the the ones who didn't have the the "chosen genetics" like Hitler, but trying to control the world through a selection process based on genes is the same.

I also find nothing derogative with zeroexia's post.
__________________
Kurohane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-01, 01:18   Link #5200
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
I did, there's a huge difference between his very offensive post and the edited version Aquaman just provided.

There is a big difference between Hitler and Durandal. Hitler only cared for very specific genetics and wanted a Master Race in the image he desired(and he discarded and abused those that didn't fit in). Durandal just wanted everyone to achieve their own genetic destiny no matter who they were so that they could reach their own potential and end many of the reasons for wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
He said nothing wrong. You're being just as sarcastic as him, and if you aren't going to respond to his (very well stated) points then you're just deflecting the question.

So I will very nicely and unsarcastically repeat them.

Lacus and company did nothing wrong, because they saved the world. Lacus had no ability to legitimately challenge Patrick Zala, because he was throwing a (secret) coup and killing anyone who dared oppose him. Since Siegel and Lacus were doing nothing wrong besides verbally opposing his plan, and it wasn't until he started killing them that they made a military move against him. A move that wasn't opposed when the truth came out, because when it did Patricks own people killed him and abandoned their stations. And the Plant government threw all the Zala loyalists that didn't become terrorists and go into hiding in jail. So Lacus was hailed as a hero, not a traitor.

Now you are also suggesting that it is perfectly acceptable for Durandal to assasinate or destroy anyone who would oppose his plan that would basically give him control over of the world, even firing on his own soldiers, and wiping out entire nations (Requiem was firing at Orb. Not the military, they were all in space. An Orb full of innocents like Shinn used to be that did nothing wrong beyond not wanting Durandals plan that would make him in charge of what they did for a living). When their only crime is not wanting to let him turn their lives completely upside down in favor of what he wants for them.

I'm sorry to say, but this is no different than any other dictactor in history. Hitler Stalin and all those "evil" dictators? They thought they were doing good like Durandal did. In actuality nobody every thinks what they are doing is wrong, because if they did, they wouldn't do it. Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor by killing all the Jewish, like Durandal apparantly thinks he's doing the world a favor by killing anyone who doesn't want to follow his plan.
There's a difference between the examples I gave(far and between in comparison within the vast amount of points I covered in my many posts on this subject) and the muddled up post he/she gave which was quite offensive(It's hard not to notice the anger behind it which was directed at me specifically through sarcastic undertones). Furthermore I'm going off the assumption that he/she's a grown man/woman and doesn't need someone else to fix their own posts for them. So I will wait for him/her to do that him/herself before addressing the point(s) he/she may or may not have made.

That and your opinion is clearly bias towards him/her since you put it out there that his/her statements are somehow more well stated than my own(Of course this is expected since you haven't agreed with me on anything) despite the fact that you literally just cleaned up a ton of muddle out of his post. That alone speaks on what you truly think of what he/she had posted considering the huge contrast between the original and your edited version. So don't sugar coat the offensiveness of his post just because you don't like me.
Destined_Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mecha, seed it and weep

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.