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Old 2012-11-13, 01:16   Link #5341
Kirayuki
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
I really don't see what was the problem with Kira in Destiny since he never lost his mind unlike most characters and had his own rules when fighting (he would only kill his enemy if civilians would die, that's why he killed Stella and later tried to murder Durandal). In fact, Kira was more of a supporting character rather than a main character as he kept aiding Cagalli, Athrun and Lacus (to the point he even gains respect from Orb soldiers) and he never comes to hate an opponent. (it kind of reminds me to Quattro in Zeta, my favorite version of Char)
The real problem is the difference in portrayal between main and side characters in Destiny. It's not really about the characters themselves being flawed, but it was more of writing + direction problem.

If the character is more of a supporting character, then treat it like one. This is actually becomes very apparent after episode 34. For example, Quattro and Amuro also appear in Zeta. Even though the show spend quite a bit of time for them (and Quattro being a prominent figure for the series itself), there were never any doubt that Kamille was the star or main protagonist of the show.

This is the problem with how they deal with Shinn. You can't help to feel like rooting for a lost cause whenever you see him fighting against Kira and co. (especially after he got Destiny)
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Old 2012-11-13, 01:35   Link #5342
monster
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
Well, a third season will not work for the same reasons why all the UC shows after ZZ didn't work: Your audience get older, finish school, start working and some get married and start a family. They won't have the time to watch a weekly anime show or build Gunpla models. This is especially true for the Japanese Seed fans, as the majority of Seed fans were casual TV viewers.. In the end only the die hard fans will remain, but the fan base will not be large enough to justify a new full season (in terms of finance).

They can still do a new ONA or a OVA.. or even the SEED movie, but it won't be as big of a blockbuster as it would have been in 2007.

However, I sure that a new season of Seed will outsell Age in everything and it will perform at least as good as 00 (Based on the popularity of the characters, the Gunpla models and other merchandise), but it seems that Bandai is expecting a lot more from a Gundam show. They are trying to create something new that can replicate the effects of 0079 and Seed. They are not just trying to get by, they are looking for something lucrative that can last for a decade. There is an interview with the top guys at Bandai / Sunrise where they talks about this. Age was designed to do this, but obviously it didn't work out.
I think it's harder to make something that can last for a decade when they keep coming up with the next new universe.
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Old 2012-11-13, 01:50   Link #5343
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Yep. But it still would help.

I really don't see what was the problem with Kira in Destiny since he never lost his mind unlike most characters and had his own rules when fighting (he would only kill his enemy if civilians would die, that's why he killed Stella and later tried to murder Durandal). In fact, Kira was more of a supporting character rather than a main character as he kept aiding Cagalli, Athrun and Lacus (to the point he even gains respect from Orb soldiers) and he never comes to hate an opponent. (it kind of reminds me to Quattro in Zeta, my favorite version of Char)
Kira started out as a supporting character but slowly took over the spotlight. This was especially bad right after the Battle of Orb where it turned completely into the Kira show. Kira was supposed to be the Amuro of SEED, but apparently he didn't get the memo because he forgot Destiny was supposed to be the Zeta of SEED.
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Old 2012-11-13, 02:36   Link #5344
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
I think it's harder to make something that can last for a decade when they keep coming up with the next new universe.
I think the idea is to attract young kids who will grow up with a new Gundam series, and thereby securing Gundam's financial future for at least a decade. You are right. It definitely is harder, but in the end it pays off if successful. I think it's a good model, but they obviously need to do a better job than Age.


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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Kira started out as a supporting character but slowly took over the spotlight. This was especially bad right after the Battle of Orb where it turned completely into the Kira show. Kira was supposed to be the Amuro of SEED, but apparently he didn't get the memo because he forgot Destiny was supposed to be the Zeta of SEED.
yeah.. Too bad Kira isn't a real person who can hear the shitty opinions of some *wink wink* people.. Oh Kira you suck!
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Old 2012-11-13, 03:13   Link #5345
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Originally Posted by Kirayuki View Post
This is the problem with how they deal with Shinn. You can't help to feel like rooting for a lost cause whenever you see him fighting against Kira and co. (especially after he got Destiny)
For storyline purposes, I always believed that the lack of disciplinary measures taken against Shinn created more or less that blinded spoiled brat we have come to know. If we consider how many violations he made under the code of military justice as an officially registered member of ZAFT, Shinn should have spent his fair share of "confinement time on bread and water" (naval terms) while his squadmates take all the glory UNLESS he grows a better attitude and better brains. Unlike what happened in SEED with Kira as the lone ace pilot for the ship, there were two more able to step up to the plate for the Minerva.

For sure, I'll always blame it on the writing department for not making sure the authority figures above Shinn (in this case, Talia and Athrun) are not given the opportunity to scold the little guy as it should be. In any show involving military units, wars and battles, I always believe some people should be there to fulfill the position as commanding officer(s) because that's how a protagonist evolves into the desired result of a character after following advice from mentors. That's probably the part where the writing department failed in shaping Shinn's character and it was probably already too late when someone noticed it by the time Kira steps into the arena. After that, what are you going to do?

I always believed Shinn should have gone through real hell as a combatant; that's also part of how his character would have been shaped differently by being able to see things with a different perspective.
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Old 2012-11-13, 10:21   Link #5346
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Kira started out as a supporting character but slowly took over the spotlight. This was especially bad right after the Battle of Orb where it turned completely into the Kira show. Kira was supposed to be the Amuro of SEED, but apparently he didn't get the memo because he forgot Destiny was supposed to be the Zeta of SEED.
Wasn't it that the real main character from Destiny was Athrun? Shinn did not get much screentime and backstory until after the sixth episode as the show primarily focused on Athrun and Cagalli. Athrun ha most of show's screentime as he spends time in both ZAFT and Orb. He is also is the one who helps Orb defeat ZAFT as it did not look like Kira could deal with both Shinn and Rey alone. This is more obvious in the compilation films where he gets all narrations and is the center of all endings.



Also, something curious I notice is that Durandal appears to be the show's director. He wished to get the strongest mobile suit pilot, Kira Yamato, but got Shinn instead. He also wished to get one of the most popular personalities, Lacus Clyne, but got Meer instead. He does this to get people's attention and in the process changes parts of the war to make Shinn look like the hero who killed Stella rather than Kira. Who knows? Maybe I just played too much Metal Gear.

Last edited by amaterasu4; 2012-11-13 at 10:24. Reason: wrong formatting
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Old 2012-11-13, 14:21   Link #5347
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False, Athrun was never the main character of Destiny. It was always Shinn. Athrun was meant to serve as his mentor ala Quattro to Kamille. When Destiny started he did act like a mentor but he seemed far too aggressive with Shinn while Quattro grew to like Kamille and wasn't rough with him at all after they got that out of their system. Quattro also knew how to get Kamille to reach his potential without yelling or trying to embarrass his protege and Quattro never once berated Kamille for taking down an enemy.

Athrun is only in the middle because he's the connection between the old Hero, Kira, and the new Hero, Shinn. That and he's the favorite.

Durandal only wanted to use Lacus because of her popularity. Than he figured out that that with SCIENCE he can make a loyal fake Lacus thus he didn't need to risk working with the rebellious Lacus. As for Kira? Durandal could care less for Kira until he started screwing up his plans with his plot armor.

As for the movies, yes. There were Athrun bias while the Series was Shinn and later Kira's perspectives with some Athrun while the movies were nearly all Athrun all the time.

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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
For storyline purposes, I always believed that the lack of disciplinary measures taken against Shinn created more or less that blinded spoiled brat we have come to know. If we consider how many violations he made under the code of military justice as an officially registered member of ZAFT, Shinn should have spent his fair share of "confinement time on bread and water" (naval terms) while his squadmates take all the glory UNLESS he grows a better attitude and better brains. Unlike what happened in SEED with Kira as the lone ace pilot for the ship, there were two more able to step up to the plate for the Minerva.

For sure, I'll always blame it on the writing department for not making sure the authority figures above Shinn (in this case, Talia and Athrun) are not given the opportunity to scold the little guy as it should be. In any show involving military units, wars and battles, I always believe some people should be there to fulfill the position as commanding officer(s) because that's how a protagonist evolves into the desired result of a character after following advice from mentors. That's probably the part where the writing department failed in shaping Shinn's character and it was probably already too late when someone noticed it by the time Kira steps into the arena. After that, what are you going to do?

I always believed Shinn should have gone through real hell as a combatant; that's also part of how his character would have been shaped differently by being able to see things with a different perspective.
Wait, you're saying Rey and Lunamaria were better pilots than Shinn? No way, none of them could "step up to the plate" in many of the situations that Shinn managed to save all of their asses. Maybe Athrun could have but he has a bad history due to his betrayal of ZAFT, Shinn was a much easier person to spin as a public hero because of his blank slate and complete loyalty to ZAFT. Durandal was smart to use Shinn as a symbol due to his blank slate and his youth representing ZAFT's current generation.

Shinn was punished in the series but Durandal made sure that Shinn was never taken off the battlefield complete because of his potential, natural talent, and loyalty. It's why Durandal was quick to forgive Shinn no matter what but immediately jumped on the chance to try and kill Athrun once he had the evidence he needed to plant the former war hero as a genuine traitor once again.

It was always Durandal's intention to manipulate the youthful, and still easily swayed, Shinn while Athrun(already hardened by war and treachery was always suspicious of everything). Hence why he spoiled him, told Shinn what he wanted to hear, gave him nice perks and benefits. It was smart of him since until Kira appeared Shinn was a complete monster on the battlefield and since he was loyal there was no risk at all with him unlike with Athrun. ZAFT also genuinely loved Shinn for his ridiculous accomplishments on the battlefield and Durandal made sure that Shinn's little outbursts from time to time never reached the public eye. Would have been hard to cover all that up had Shinn actually been punished and had he been punished it would have severely damaged the war effort, moral, and doomed the Minerva.
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Old 2012-11-13, 15:43   Link #5348
amaterasu4
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
False, Athrun was never the main character of Destiny. It was always Shinn. Athrun was meant to serve as his mentor ala Quattro to Kamille. When Destiny started he did act like a mentor but he seemed far too aggressive with Shinn while Quattro grew to like Kamille and wasn't rough with him at all after they got that out of their system. Quattro also knew how to get Kamille to reach his potential without yelling or trying to embarrass his protege and Quattro never once berated Kamille for taking down an enemy.

Athrun is only in the middle because he's the connection between the old Hero, Kira, and the new Hero, Shinn. That and he's the favorite.

Durandal only wanted to use Lacus because of her popularity. Than he figured out that that with SCIENCE he can make a loyal fake Lacus thus he didn't need to risk working with the rebellious Lacus. As for Kira? Durandal could care less for Kira until he started screwing up his plans with his plot armor.
If you remember around episode 34, Durandal talks about how he wanted Kira to join ZAFT, having considered he would have been their best pilot. Athrun and Cagalli are basically the only protagonists the show has in the beginning as Shinn only appears to fight and nothing is known about his motives. The first episodes are mostly focused on them. The fact is that Destiny actually ended having multiple protagonists as it focused on both Orb and ZAFT, while the original one only focused on the Earth Alliance.

Plot armor? You mean what Char used to survive at the end of every show? Heero and Setsuna are also users of that and Kamille in Zeta's remake. In fact, every anime protagonist uses that.
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Old 2012-11-13, 16:28   Link #5349
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Wasn't it that the real main character from Destiny was Athrun? Shinn did not get much screentime and backstory until after the sixth episode as the show primarily focused on Athrun and Cagalli. Athrun ha most of show's screentime as he spends time in both ZAFT and Orb. He is also is the one who helps Orb defeat ZAFT as it did not look like Kira could deal with both Shinn and Rey alone. This is more obvious in the compilation films where he gets all narrations and is the center of all endings.
IMO Sunrise/Bandai got confused when they made Destiny series. At the beginning, they tried to make Athrun the main character (most likely due to his popularity) while also introducing Shinn as the pseudo-MC. In the middle part of the series, Athrun got pushed aside and Shinn took over the show. After that, during the last part of the series, Kira clearly took over that MC role (again, due to popularity), especially after Durandal announced the Destiny Plan. At the same time, they made Shinn into an antagonist for the rest of the show.

The Destiny SE movies fixed the mess by focusing on Athrun from beginning to end. So yeah, the focus on Athrun was intentional there.
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Old 2012-11-13, 17:06   Link #5350
KiraYamatoFan
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Wait, you're saying Rey and Lunamaria were better pilots than Shinn? No way, none of them could "step up to the plate" in many of the situations that Shinn managed to save all of their asses. Maybe Athrun could have but he has a bad history due to his betrayal of ZAFT, Shinn was a much easier person to spin as a public hero because of his blank slate and complete loyalty to ZAFT. Durandal was smart to use Shinn as a symbol due to his blank slate and his youth representing ZAFT's current generation.
Certainly not Lunamaria, but Athrun (for the time he was there) and Rey were able to get the job done. And besides, Rey also had the skills; he was just a low-profile guy in my book.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
It was always Durandal's intention to manipulate the youthful, and still easily swayed, Shinn while Athrun(already hardened by war and treachery was always suspicious of everything). Hence why he spoiled him, told Shinn what he wanted to hear, gave him nice perks and benefits. It was smart of him since until Kira appeared Shinn was a complete monster on the battlefield and since he was loyal there was no risk at all with him unlike with Athrun. ZAFT also genuinely loved Shinn for his ridiculous accomplishments on the battlefield and Durandal made sure that Shinn's little outbursts from time to time never reached the public eye. Would have been hard to cover all that up had Shinn actually been punished and had he been punished it would have severely damaged the war effort, moral, and doomed the Minerva.
I can't speak for Durandal's intervention after the incident when Stella was brought out of jail back to the EA Forces because HE was informed of the incident. However BEFORE THAT, Talia and Athrun were the commanding officers with full authority vested in both of them.

What I mean is that the writing department didn't give a more serious try at showing Talia and/or Athrun making full use of the authority they have in the times when combat was nowhere on the horizon. Especially in Talia's case, I expected more of her as your typical no-nonsense commanding officer. I'd have paid a lot of money to see Talia and Athrun shouting out loud their discontent into Shinn's ears, and end up giving Shinn confinement time or tasks of cleaning up parts of the ship on his own as punishment. During that time when the violations were nowhere near what Shinn did with Stella, it was the law of the sea and nothing more. And by law of the sea, words about punishment usually don't come out of the ship.

Anyway, enduring punishment should always be a good tool for any character to think again about past actions. Too bad the writers didn't think of that.
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Old 2012-11-13, 19:42   Link #5351
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The more I read these comments the more interesting I find SEED Destiny. It reminds me to other series like Scryed, Vagabond, Basilisk, Naruto and Gankutsuou where the focus changes between main characters and they tend to clash between each other (in Scryed it's actually the opposite). It kind of helps to give a better point of view about war as while the first time I watched Stella's death I felt sad, I understood why is it that Kira had to kill her. The same with Shinn violently attacking Kira and destroying Freedom in revenge (curiously the first opening, "Ignited". already used the footage of Freedom vs Impulse).

Durandal ended being on of my favorite Gundam antagonists alongside Zechs when I learned about his backstory. Also, I was surprised to know that Durandal was one of the people behind the Ultimate Coordinator project in Destiny Astray. Now if only Sunrise explained why Kira, Rey, Rau and Mu had small Newtype abilites (those psychic powers that helped Kira learn Neo's true identity) I would be happier.
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Old 2012-11-13, 21:02   Link #5352
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
DNow if only Sunrise explained why Kira, Rey, Rau and Mu had small Newtype abilites (those psychic powers that helped Kira learn Neo's true identity) I would be happier.
Didn't Fukuda claim that Kira's Newtype flash in episode 39 was just an homage to UC, and if ANN is to be believed, it also an homage to Char yelling "Hit them!" in an episode of MSG?

Also, those "Newtype abilities" in the CE timeline are referring to the "spatial awareness" capabilities that the La Flaga family has, allowing them to control the first generation DRAGOONs and Gunbarrels.
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Old 2012-11-13, 22:27   Link #5353
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Didn't Fukuda claim that Kira's Newtype flash in episode 39 was just an homage to UC, and if ANN is to be believed, it also an homage to Char yelling "Hit them!" in an episode of MSG?

Also, those "Newtype abilities" in the CE timeline are referring to the "spatial awareness" capabilities that the La Flaga family has, allowing them to control the first generation DRAGOONs and Gunbarrels.
Yea he did but apparently Kira's "Newtype flashes" aren't merely for show. He's depicted multiple times having spatial awareness, like sensing Rau and Mu, previously and he had newtype flashes while battling Rey. Even during the Special movies, they keep his newtype flashes, indicating they intend him to have spatial awareness. And if you wish to count SD Gundam Wars, they also give him spatial awareness and decent awakening.

So, yes a homage but also apparently still spatial aware. Besides, the true extent of Newtype abilities in CE aren't really known.

Prayer, another clone, from Astray has exhibited the most Newtype abilities, undeniably Newtype, not just DRAGOONS, telepathy among them but nobody else has shown these abilities.

But really, Kira got everything. He's the ultimate coordinator, mastered SEED mode and has spatial awareness. What kind of monster did they create? (And only at 18 years old. Even Amuro had to wait till CCA to reach his prime.)
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Old 2012-11-13, 23:11   Link #5354
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The second-generation DRAGOONs on the SFreedom and the Legend have a "quantum communications system", which allows pilots without or little spatial awareness (i.e., normal pilots) to use them properly.
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Old 2012-11-13, 23:55   Link #5355
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Kira was a great pilot and Durandal obviously wanted him but he knew that Kira wouldn't see eye to eye with him and considering Kira's antics it was best that he never pursued it. Hence why when he had evidence of Athrun talking to Kira he didn't go ask Athrun to try and persuade Kira, he instead used that evidence later to persecute Athrun when he believed that Kira was no longer a factor. Thus taking out two of his greatest threats, Kira/Athrun and than later Lacus. Had they not been around than nothing would have stopped the Minerva from stomping out Logos quickly and Durandal to be in the prime position to enact the Destiny Plan. After all, by the time he pulled the trigger on Athrun he was confident in Shinn's loyalty and his ability to win the war(and he was right, the war would have ended at Orb had Team Kira not shown up).

Char's cockpit wasn't destroyed at the end of Zeta. While the Strike had the chair melted(meaning that Kira should have died from the heat alone than), and the Freedom was stabbed and completely destroyed with parts flying everywhere. Kira also survived an explosion to the face and his no-kill rule would have gotten anyone else killed but because of Kira's plot armor he never suffered any real consequences for not killing. His friends were also magically not in greater danger despite his no-kill rule.

I would vastly prefer someone like Athrun or Shinn on my side, at least they aren't blinded by naive idealism and I know they wont leave the entire enemy mostly unscathed or give them a chance to return or to suicide on the ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Certainly not Lunamaria, but Athrun (for the time he was there) and Rey were able to get the job done. And besides, Rey also had the skills; he was just a low-profile guy in my book.



I can't speak for Durandal's intervention after the incident when Stella was brought out of jail back to the EA Forces because HE was informed of the incident. However BEFORE THAT, Talia and Athrun were the commanding officers with full authority vested in both of them.

What I mean is that the writing department didn't give a more serious try at showing Talia and/or Athrun making full use of the authority they have in the times when combat was nowhere on the horizon. Especially in Talia's case, I expected more of her as your typical no-nonsense commanding officer. I'd have paid a lot of money to see Talia and Athrun shouting out loud their discontent into Shinn's ears, and end up giving Shinn confinement time or tasks of cleaning up parts of the ship on his own as punishment. During that time when the violations were nowhere near what Shinn did with Stella, it was the law of the sea and nothing more. And by law of the sea, words about punishment usually don't come out of the ship.

Anyway, enduring punishment should always be a good tool for any character to think again about past actions. Too bad the writers didn't think of that.
Pretty sure Athrun's extremely rough and borderline abuse of Shinn was him trying to show his authority. Talia most likely was given orders not to prosecute Shinn due to the hero nature that Durandal wanted to give off to the people.

That and Durandal didn't have all that much faith in Athrun compared to Shinn and I doubt Athrun had the authority to even punish Shinn severely or to take him off the battlefield. Only Talia really had that power and considering Shinn saved their asses multiple times already and is the designated pilot of the Impulse there really isn't much she could have done about him.

Talia, after all, did not have the authority to give the Impulse to anyone else and it was far better leaving Shinn, a proven pilot for the Impulse(and popular with the crew since he saved them multiple times already), in the Impulse than to risk it in the hands of another who would have to quickly be adjusted to it(Such as Lunamaria not being good as Shinn in it and it took her awhile to adjust fully to it).

Besides, Shinn did what was expected of him on the battlefield, his quirks were almost entirely off the battlefield and didn't really effect his piloting at that point.

Talia was required by Durandal to report everything that was happening. Hence why she couldn't pursue any tougher punishments against Shinn or Rey. All Athrun could do is yell at Shinn and get away with putting his hands on Shinn and punching him and the such which is not allowed in the military and could have cost him his position right than and there if the abuse was pursued.

As for Rey? His piloting skills may be high but he was never shown to be a greater pilot than Shinn in the series. Besides, he was there to serve as Durandal's eyes and ears as well and to keep Shinn loyal and on track.

Leniency also went to Lunamaria since they could have prosecuted her due to her sister's betrayal but instead Durandal had those charges dismissed and assigned her the Impulse even though there was doubt of how loyal she could be if Athrun(the man she used to crush on) and her sister showed up again.
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Old 2012-11-14, 00:30   Link #5356
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Rey was a better pilot than Shinn. At least initially. It was mentioned that his scores were higher than Shinn's and it was unusual that Durandal personally had Shinn assigned the Impulse instead (not directly stated, but heavily implied that Durandal, a geneticist knew Shinn had the SEED mode from his medical tests).

And in the first episode this is shown when Neo attacks them with his gunbarrels and Rey dodges perfectly while Shinn takes a minor hit.

But yes Shinn eventually surpasses Rey.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:29   Link #5357
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Leniency also went to Lunamaria since they could have prosecuted her due to her sister's betrayal
wth..? Do explain! I'm not sure if I understand what you are talking about..
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Old 2012-11-14, 09:00   Link #5358
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You need to rewatch Destiny. When her sister betrayed she was suspected of aiding her sister who was in turn aiding the "traitor" Athrun. They could have easily had her imprisoned for a time due to her association with her sister. Instead after just some questioning she was released and Durandal had the Impulse assigned to her.
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Old 2012-11-14, 10:12   Link #5359
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Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post
The second-generation DRAGOONs on the SFreedom and the Legend have a "quantum communications system", which allows pilots without or little spatial awareness (i.e., normal pilots) to use them properly.
And yet both Gundams have pilots with relatively high spatial awareness. Both get newtype flashes and both may share common DNA, if you believe that Kira got some of his spatial awareness from Al Da Flaga's DNA. I don't think we've actually seen pilots without spatial awareness actually use DRAGOONs at all, first or second-generation.

Besides, the point is moot considering Newtype flashes are instant giveaway for spatial awareness. Now, actual full on Newtype is debatable but everybody that has Newtype flashes is at least spatial aware, especially if it occurs multiple times. It's pretty clear in that area.
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Old 2012-11-14, 18:28   Link #5360
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Rey was a better pilot than Shinn. At least initially. It was mentioned that his scores were higher than Shinn's and it was unusual that Durandal personally had Shinn assigned the Impulse instead (not directly stated, but heavily implied that Durandal, a geneticist knew Shinn had the SEED mode from his medical tests).

And in the first episode this is shown when Neo attacks them with his gunbarrels and Rey dodges perfectly while Shinn takes a minor hit.

But yes Shinn eventually surpasses Rey.
The thing is that Rey was never meant to pilot the strongest mobile suits due to the issues of him being a clone. In the last episodes Rey reveals Shinn he will have a short lifespan and he wants Shinn to carry out his will (although it was actually Durandal's will). When Durandal first showed the Destiny and Legend mobile suits, they were originally for Shinn and Athrun, but Athrun's "betrayal" made Rey replace him as Legend's pilot. This is also the part when Durandal mentions Kira and how he originally wanted him in ZAFT to become their ace, but could not get it since Kira avoided military activities after SEED and joined Orb in the next war (although Durandal kind of had it coming after sending pilots to kill Lacus).

Also there was a scene in the original SEED series that confused me a lot until I remembered UC. Flay tried to shoot Rau in the middle of the dark but was confused that she stared at Rau and said "Father?!" It was apparently a reference to Zeta's last scene where people saw spirits when staring at Kamille.

The confusing thing about the SEED factor and the special awareness is that they have never been the focused of the story other than that scene in which Kira wonders why he survived to Aegis' selfdestruction (in the chibi parody they show how the SEED factor works for the most random thing like tasting food). In Destiny, Kira also had the SEED factor while fighting Shinn and the Impulse actually didn't reach Freedom's cockpit as a second after that we see Kira unscatched and was not drowning when falling to the sea. The Archangel was saved since they did not interfere with that fight and just focused on escaping from the Minerva.

Regarding Kira's special awareness, I think it was the result of the Ultimate Coordinator project since Kira never showed superior traits over other Coordinators other than his skills as pilot as in SEED he takes down most of ZAFT's pilots and in Destiny he disables lots of the mobile suits from the Earth Alliance and ZAFT in a single battle. Kira never learns to communicate with the dead or absorb the power from spirits as the director stated that Kira actually wasn't hearing Flay in the finale of SEED and he became unstable while fighting Rau after that.

Regarding Kira's idealism, he actually went for the kill at least three times after gaining the Freedom but it was only when the enemy was a big menace like Rau, Stella and Durandal. Even all the pilots from Wing become pacifists in Endless Waltz as they avoid killing the pilot (although Heero somehow managed to avoid having Relena killed after he used all of Wing Zero's power in the last episode). If ZAFT actually accepted him as a colonel in the ending of Destiny Special Edition then I guess he is serious about fighting in future wars.

But yeah, most of the complains I hear about Destiny is that it is supposed to be only about Shinn, but that's just following Zeta's pattern and become a cliche. SEED also ended nothing like the original Gundam and the protagonism was shared between Kira, Athrun and Cagalli.

Last edited by amaterasu4; 2012-11-14 at 18:41. Reason: forgot
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