AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-11-06, 21:06   Link #581
D-KLAC
KLAC OF THE ANIME WORLD
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: gs series
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinn_Kabuto View Post
Hehe, yeah. Maybe we can call Kira "Andros Yamato" from now on.

Spoiler for LET'S ROCKET:
yes it's true Souichiro Hoshi did the the jap voice of andros(the same person that "you know what" to zordon in c2d) in pris besides GS doing power rangers that intersting

or maybe GS series should do time traveling like doctor who?!

besides the voice of rau & rey is the current doctor http://youtube.com/watch?v=UY2n7KHCF5c imagine GS doing doctor who
__________________
ONCE A GS ALWAYS A GS
A KLAC IS JUST TOO COMMIT, HONOR, LOYALTY, PRIDE, ETC TO WORLD OF ANIME
WALKING THE PATH OF KLAC ON THE JOURNEY THORUGH THE KLAC-ERA
YOU EITHER ANIME NEXUS http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24159 OR AGAINST THE ANIME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6WFM...eature=related
KLAC OF PERSONALITY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqyG8w0iMPw
D-KLAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-06, 23:23   Link #582
Shinn_Kabuto
Ore wa Kyasshan!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere...
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-KLAC View Post
yes it's true Souichiro Hoshi did the the jap voice of andros(the same person that "you know what" to zordon in c2d) in pris besides GS doing power rangers that intersting

or maybe GS series should do time traveling like doctor who?!

besides the voice of rau & rey is the current doctor http://youtube.com/watch?v=UY2n7KHCF5c imagine GS doing doctor who
Spoiler for PRiS:
Shinn_Kabuto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-07, 00:13   Link #583
Eidolon Sniper
Tsubasa No Kami
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD
Send a message via Yahoo to Eidolon Sniper
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
In TV, the only show that I can think of with the double-length episodes is Figure 17, and it pulled it off superbly. In a way, it's a real shame that more shows don't incorporate the double-length format since it allows for all sorts of storytelling techniques that aren't possible of the shorter formats. Then again, not everyone's interested in a show that only airs once per month.
It would not be feasible for all formats. Remember that any anime in particular have to share a spot with other anime on that time slot, and because of the people involved in it - the animators, director, VA staff, producer, writers, character designer/s, mecha designer/s and/or others - makes it even more expensive as their respective outputs also translate into money needed to be spent on them so that they could also do a lot more. There are some who could do more with a small budget, and there are some who still did less given the spectacular budget that they have on the project. In order to be able to come of as a success, the particular staff involved in that anime must be able to do a lot with whatever budget that they have, and use their budget wisely. Also, anime cater to several audiences, and the finished product almost always have something to do with that particular audience alone. I don't think people would enjoy anime spanning an hour each every single day, or maybe some of them will...but in order to predict that outcome, they still have to actually do their homework and research if an hour long Crayon Shin Chan for example would actually be favorable to the particular audience it targets, and the money involved in order to keep the hour length feature always fresh and not stale.
__________________

Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!
Eidolon Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-07, 16:54   Link #584
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
It would not be feasible for all formats. Remember that any anime in particular have to share a spot with other anime on that time slot
We know that. Although I believe 4-tran's point was that, it was cool when they pulled it off. That is all.

- Tak
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-07, 17:31   Link #585
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Actually, depending on how far along Japan's on-demand TV services have become, vying for time with another show at the same time slot may not be as large of an issue as it once was.
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-07, 18:57   Link #586
D-KLAC
KLAC OF THE ANIME WORLD
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: gs series
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinn_Kabuto View Post
Spoiler for PRiS:
yeah i know that & but it confuse that in a zeo ep in the far future that zordan is still alive!!!

& speaking of GS 3 maybe they might try doing it in a high school musical http://youtube.com/watch?v=EhkepO-z-_Q besides they did get meyrin's jap voice fumiko orikasa as gabriella also that Auel (ichigo)'s jap voice as troy
__________________
ONCE A GS ALWAYS A GS
A KLAC IS JUST TOO COMMIT, HONOR, LOYALTY, PRIDE, ETC TO WORLD OF ANIME
WALKING THE PATH OF KLAC ON THE JOURNEY THORUGH THE KLAC-ERA
YOU EITHER ANIME NEXUS http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24159 OR AGAINST THE ANIME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6WFM...eature=related
KLAC OF PERSONALITY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqyG8w0iMPw
D-KLAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-07, 21:06   Link #587
Shinji103
Crazy Devout Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Yeah, and somebody ought to tell me the point in that
Well, I can see the point in it. Because while Power Rangers may have the same Sentai costumes, "Zords", and the clips from the Japanese shows, it's still majorly a different show. Different characters, different story (okay, not entirely different, but you know what I mean), and new twists and ideas on other things in the Japanese Sentai shows it was based on.
__________________
Shinji103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-07, 22:12   Link #588
Eidolon Sniper
Tsubasa No Kami
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD
Send a message via Yahoo to Eidolon Sniper
@ Ledgem

Case in point, Code Geass? I wonder why they decided to split it into 2 seasons... I guess it is some wicked sense of business (Geass merchandise) and general "fan tease" so that fans of the show would be able to anticipate it a LOT. LOL.

@ Tak

I also know that. I was actually replying to both D-KLAC and 4Tran's responses. And of course, hour length CE = LOLz for some people. I like what they did about Stargazer, and the teasers for Red and Blue Frame Astrays, given they were only short features at best. At least the time constraints didn't actually get into the people who did those stuff. That was what I was also implying in my response to 4Tran.
__________________

Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!
Eidolon Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 09:59   Link #589
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
We know that. Although I believe 4-tran's point was that, it was cool when they pulled it off. That is all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Actually, depending on how far along Japan's on-demand TV services have become, vying for time with another show at the same time slot may not be as large of an issue as it once was.
Both points are correct. It's also interesting to note that Figure 17 originally ran on AT-X, which is a satellite service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
I also know that. I was actually replying to both D-KLAC and 4Tran's responses. And of course, hour length CE = LOLz for some people. I like what they did about Stargazer, and the teasers for Red and Blue Frame Astrays, given they were only short features at best. At least the time constraints didn't actually get into the people who did those stuff. That was what I was also implying in my response to 4Tran.
I'm afraid that you misunderstood my point. It wasn't that it would be better for a Cosmic Era show to be made in 1-hour episodes; it was that it's a shame no other show has tried Figure 17's format; and that such a format has quite a few advantages over the half-hour format.

Besides, it isn't really that much different negotiating a 1-hour block for anime than it is to do so for doramas. Obviously, this is already commonly done on Japanese television, so it shouldn't be that much of a stumbling block. What is a stumbling block (and I brought it up earlier) is that Figure 17 only released a single episode a month.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 12:43   Link #590
Eidolon Sniper
Tsubasa No Kami
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD
Send a message via Yahoo to Eidolon Sniper
My point is that not all formats are considered feasible for the one hour slot every single day or depending on when they show it. As ==>this thread is about a probable, possible 3rd CE series<==, I was just illustrating how it could not possibly be, and besides, I was also replying to D-KLAC about the horrors of an hour length series. It is just a shame that nobody tried to do that using other possible genres, but also remember that what is possible for Figure 17 (the format, etc., storyline how it came to be) would not be the same as for all shows. This is just what I was saying. Hour length feature anime is still a scary prospect, as what I have also said a while ago.

Anime = doramas in the way they could negotiated for airtime? I don't think so. They would probably have the same similarities in terms of popularizing the show and catering to the audience who would find the time slots alright/OK/sucks all the way in their opinion, but that is all they have in common. Networks have to strike the right balance in all their shows, and depending on the anime, it may or may not be shown to the audience, which becomes riskier if this move should alienate the prospects of the show actually becoming quite popular in their own right for their own intended fanbase in that country. So that is why there are anime which are ported over to other countries and some anime banned in other countries. Even if the anime is considered very popular where it came from, it really depends on the country's entertainment regulation industry + country morals (or "so called" morals, sometimes) + fanbase before it could even be considered to be shown to the audiences. So if Crayon Shin Chan decides to risk having an hour length feature, it's 50/50 chance that it would either become successful or even more popular or fail spectacularly. Except for locally produced shows which are more or less adapted to the moral + fanbase structure of the country, foreign shows also undergo the same screening process before it gets aired, but since there have been a lot of "real life" shows that have the same format, it is NOT as risky. Figure 17 is the only one that risked to having the hour length/one show per month only format in anime form, but still it is risky, because it simply was the first show that did it, and did OK. Utilizing what made Figure 17 OK could not be exactly the same for any other kind of anime to do that because of the many various narrative techniques/animation techniques or whatever else people would employ just to tell a story. Can you stand an hour's worth of Naruto? Bleach? Every week? There will come a time when people could actually say that it sucks for being too long, and was even better when it was just half an hour long.
__________________

Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!
Eidolon Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 14:40   Link #591
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper
My point is that not all formats are considered feasible for the one hour slot every single day or depending on when they show it. As ==>this thread is about a probable, possible 3rd CE series<==, I was just illustrating how it could not possibly be, and besides, I was also replying to D-KLAC about the horrors of an hour length series.
I think that you're still sort of missing the point - I'm not trying to claim that it's likely for another Cosmic Era show to be made in this format. It's just that such a format will confer certain advantages. The main advantage is that it can pace things very differently, which would open up all sorts of storytelling potential. While D-KLAC's original idea is sort of silly, it's not entirely without merit.

By the way, there's no need for you to keep reiterating the problems inherent in a 1-hour production - nobody's saying that it'd be free of limitations.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 19:32   Link #592
D-KLAC
KLAC OF THE ANIME WORLD
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: gs series
Age: 24
well GSD's final plus was like a hour

besides was there an any anime series that was 1hr per ep?!

& also maybe GS 3rd could do like this http://youtube.com/watch?v=68MZ0qvYJAI (besides this vid show athrun zala as 007)
__________________
ONCE A GS ALWAYS A GS
A KLAC IS JUST TOO COMMIT, HONOR, LOYALTY, PRIDE, ETC TO WORLD OF ANIME
WALKING THE PATH OF KLAC ON THE JOURNEY THORUGH THE KLAC-ERA
YOU EITHER ANIME NEXUS http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24159 OR AGAINST THE ANIME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6WFM...eature=related
KLAC OF PERSONALITY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqyG8w0iMPw
D-KLAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 21:45   Link #593
kiramuro
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
I don't see why an anime episode would have to be only 30 minutes long besides financial concerns. A lot of scifi shows here in the United States with proper money support are of the hour long variety. Heavily serialized shows like Heroes, Lost, etc all do just fine. Of course they all have a staff of writers. I felt GS/GSD could've used the extra time to flesh out each characters more thoroughly and filling in more details on how the events came about. The Clyne faction for example definitely needed more development time.

Babylon 5 S1-S4 is a good model for another C.E. series to follow although it'll be quite ambitious.
kiramuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 22:15   Link #594
LoweGear
Device Meister
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiramuro View Post
I don't see why an anime episode would have to be only 30 minutes long besides financial concerns. A lot of scifi shows here in the United States with proper money support are of the hour long variety. Heavily serialized shows like Heroes, Lost, etc all do just fine.
Apples and oranges.

Live action is quite different from animation. Shooting a scene is magnitudes easier than animating something of the same length. Anyone can shoot a five-minute live action sequence with basic equipment; not everyone can create a similar sequence in animation, especially if you're going for fluidity of movement and good art at the same time.

And also, 25 minutes have been the standard length for animation episodes ever since the first serial decades ago. Not only is it easier to create an animated episode of such length in less than a couple of weeks or so, they're also easier to squeeze into network schedules, and of course tradition.
__________________

On Life: "If you have problem with Ukrainian hard house, you have problem with life. If you have problem with life ... maybe we can fix that."
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 22:48   Link #595
Eidolon Sniper
Tsubasa No Kami
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD
Send a message via Yahoo to Eidolon Sniper
@ 4Tran

@.@;;

I was just saying that an hour length feature could NOT be feasible for some formats. That is ALL. I am not saying that you're saying that it's probable for another CE show. I know what you're trying to say, that an hour length feature could be good and it already has been done and has a lot of cool benefits - i.e., Figure 17. I was just explaining why it could not be feasible for some formats, and you are just saying that it has already been done and that it has a lot of good potential.
__________________

Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!
Eidolon Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 22:59   Link #596
kiramuro
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Apples and oranges.

Live action is quite different from animation. Shooting a scene is magnitudes easier than animating something of the same length. Anyone can shoot a five-minute live action sequence with basic equipment; not everyone can create a similar sequence in animation, especially if you're going for fluidity of movement and good art at the same time.

And also, 25 minutes have been the standard length for animation episodes ever since the first serial decades ago. Not only is it easier to create an animated episode of such length in less than a couple of weeks or so, they're also easier to squeeze into network schedules, and of course tradition.
Yeah anybody can shoot a hour worth of material but a good live action tv show with heavy FX is much more difficult. Live action production faces problems that would be moot on an animation production and vice versa.

Tradition be damned! If Gundam show had a budget of more than $3 million per episode then the hour long mark wouldn't that difficult to reach especially with the current advancement of computer assisted animation techniques.
kiramuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 23:25   Link #597
Archer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiramuro View Post
Yeah anybody can shoot a hour worth of material but a good live action tv show with heavy FX is much more difficult. Live action production faces problems that would be moot on an animation production and vice versa.

Tradition be damned! If Gundam show had a budget of more than $3 million per episode then the hour long mark wouldn't that difficult to reach especially with the current advancement of computer assisted animation techniques.
Even if you throw all the money you have at it, there's still that issue of TIME. Unless most of the episodes have been animated months in advance (which is next to impossible, considering that this is Sunrise/Bandai we're talking about), we'll be faced with either extraordinary delays, animation quality that rivals MUSASHI's, or just bad CG for everything.
Archer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-08, 23:40   Link #598
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
I was just saying that an hour length feature could NOT be feasible for some formats. That is ALL.
I'm not sure why you're repeating this - no one's disagreeing with you. I'm just pointing out that your objection is redundant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiramuro View Post
Yeah anybody can shoot a hour worth of material but a good live action tv show with heavy FX is much more difficult. Live action production faces problems that would be moot on an animation production and vice versa.

Tradition be damned! If Gundam show had a budget of more than $3 million per episode then the hour long mark wouldn't that difficult to reach especially with the current advancement of computer assisted animation techniques.
It's not really a budget issue. The problem with longer length animation works is the the production cycle itself. In animation, there are a few key people who have to work on every element of the show itself. While extra animators and the like can be hired on a temporary basis for doing some of the basic drudge work, it certainly isn't possible for them to handle the more creative aspects of a show. Since so much of the responsibility can't be foisted onto other parties and still maintain the same quality of worksmanship, it's effectively impossible to increase the amount of animation (without sacrificing something) without also increasing the amount of time to produce an episode. Television doesn't afford that luxury, so any longer-format show would have to either air less frequently or be made well in advance.

Western live action shows are quite different since most of the production can be compartmentalized, so that CGI can be done concurrently with the other aspects like filming, set design, costumes, props, writing, etc.

If a Gundam show were budgeted at $3 million per episode, then Sunrise would probably use that money to make ten different shows instead (or more accurately, fifty shows).
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-09, 00:28   Link #599
Eidolon Sniper
Tsubasa No Kami
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD
Send a message via Yahoo to Eidolon Sniper
@ 4Tran

Did I say explicitly or implicitly that somebody is disagreeing with me why I always state those reasons again and again? I was merely saying what I thought as you were merely saying what you thought. And of course, trying to explain myself, as I guess you also were. Let's just already leave it at that, OK?

It could also be a budget issue. If the show flopped, or if the director suddenly calls it quits and they have to find another director to helm the show, if there had been a lot of disagreements that have sprung among the main production staff, if the animators went on strike...there are a lot of reasons why budget could be a budget issue, as something could happen that would put the entire project out of whack and so they have to otherwise redo or in some cases, can the show if it became worse. As you have already mentioned, television format is quite limited, that is why the need for an intensive "justification" of their budget, and try to incorporate it in everything about the show. Western live action shows also share this same problem as well. Someone or something could actually throw a monkey wrench into their plans and also put the entire show in jeopardy. If something had to change in one aspect of the show, let's say, the props division wanted to create a new outfit for the heroes, or if the head writer of the show decides to shaft a character for instance, it would set off a chain reaction. They are or can be compartmentalized, but if something does go wrong in one aspect, it also affects what happens to the others. There have been quite a few sudden character changes (actors suddenly disappearing because of some breach of contract or whatever regarding their projected image), or episode changes (if I heard correctly, Lost had to undergo several episode changes because almost all of Lost fan fictions have taken most of the plots or what if scenarios...or maybe it is just a rumor). So yes, what essentially happens in the course of a carefully constructed show could also be subject to such tumultuous changes.

In the case of Trinity Blood for example, the author, Sunao Yoshida, suddenly passed away, and the story isn't completed yet, but the mangaka THORES Shibamoto was asked to continue it, or so I have heard. I am not sure if it has already finished, as the first 24 episodes of Trinity Blood left me hanging. Second season? Probably. But in this case, the story could prove to be different, and the resulting story might put Trinity Blood fans off. So if the author of the story dies, others would be asked to continue it, and puts unnecessary risk on the entire production itself, as well as the budget if it could (like the question of the author intending to have this spectacular scene in the story for instance, central to the plot, in his own vision, but if another continues it, it could be changed, allowed as is, or whatever). But as we all know in anime, the translated work into anime still has its own faults in regards to its improvements over the manga storyline, so there.
__________________

Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!
Eidolon Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-09, 00:51   Link #600
kiramuro
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I'm not sure why you're repeating this - no one's disagreeing with you. I'm just pointing out that your objection is redundant.


It's not really a budget issue. The problem with longer length animation works is the the production cycle itself. In animation, there are a few key people who have to work on every element of the show itself. While extra animators and the like can be hired on a temporary basis for doing some of the basic drudge work, it certainly isn't possible for them to handle the more creative aspects of a show. Since so much of the responsibility can't be foisted onto other parties and still maintain the same quality of worksmanship, it's effectively impossible to increase the amount of animation (without sacrificing something) without also increasing the amount of time to produce an episode. Television doesn't afford that luxury, so any longer-format show would have to either air less frequently or be made well in advance.

Western live action shows are quite different since most of the production can be compartmentalized, so that CGI can be done concurrently with the other aspects like filming, set design, costumes, props, writing, etc.

If a Gundam show were budgeted at $3 million per episode, then Sunrise would probably use that money to make ten different shows instead (or more accurately, fifty shows).

Okay so you are telling me that it's impossible to split an hour long episode into 6 acts and have 6 separate teams working on each with some general guidance from an overall rough sketchboard? Details such as the gundam model, the uniforms, the design of space stations, etc should be all done before the production cycles have even started. As far as the quality of worksmanship again isn't that an issue of the budget available since with more money you can hire more high-caliber artists who are all equally creative.
kiramuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mecha, seed it and weep

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.