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Old 2013-04-15, 01:12   Link #6301
aeriolewinters
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Quote:
When Kira back on board the Eternal having failed to retrive Fllay,
Suure. when this same ship gets attacked by ZAFT forces in GSD-39, Kira had to be talked into saving it by Athrun.

Also, Kira was being nice to Lacus, even though Lacus obviously wanted attention, which is why she came into Kira's room in the first place.

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I seriously doubt the Kira/Fllay relationship would've started again even if she did live. There is too much damage there
There are far worse cases in real life and still continued as a couple, that's because love is a more powerful thing than guilt. If you deny this, then you cannot understand it.
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Old 2013-04-15, 01:18   Link #6302
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
I seriously doubt the Kira/Fllay relationship would've started again even if she did live. There is too much damage there. I can see them patching things up somewhat but a relationship between them would've been extremely difficult to get back into. It probably would've made Kira open to Lacus more than was shown in the actual series... or he would've been killed by Rau.

I'm praying that the remaster of Destiny will shed some more light on the relationship between Kira and Lacus with maybe an extra scene or 2 added.
I would have preferred the second option of Rau killing Kira. It would have spared us all the Kira from SEED Destiny used by Lacus for her own questionable ends and Kira would have finally found peace (as the old saying goes only the dead have seen the end of war).

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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Suure. when this same ship gets attacked by ZAFT forces in GSD-39, Kira had to be talked into saving it by Athrun.

Also, Kira was being nice to Lacus, even though Lacus obviously wanted attention, which is why she came into Kira's room in the first place.


There are far worse cases in real life and still continued as a couple, that's because love is a more powerful thing than guilt. If you deny this, then you cannot understand it.

And also look at how Kira fought when Rau killed Flay right before his yes (and yes it is still Kira's fault). They way he fought (to put it in similarity of Star Wars) he was fighting as if he was the Sith. Fighting full of anger and fear.
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Old 2013-04-15, 01:24   Link #6303
aeriolewinters
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It would have spared us all the Kira from SEED Destiny used by Lacus for her own questionable ends and Kira would have finally found peace (as the old saying goes only the dead have seen the end of war).
This. Kira dying would've had him in peace. and Ironically, The people claiming that Fllay would've been baggage seem to be dodging the fact that Lacus indirectly involved Kira in a war that wasn't supposed to be about them.
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:36   Link #6304
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
This. Kira dying would've had him in peace. and Ironically, The people claiming that Fllay would've been baggage seem to be dodging the fact that Lacus indirectly involved Kira in a war that wasn't supposed to be about them.
Following Gundam anime tradition so far the lead pilot never dies, and also I dont think Kira needed to die anyways, his development by the end of SEED was great IMO (part of the reason hes rather plain as hell in DESTINY), By the time DESTINY came around we could see he have found his resolve and moved on (though of course the past events would always haunt him for the rest of his life)

Indirectly? Lacus DIRECTLY gave him access to the Freedom to get back into the war (unless Im reading your comment in the wrong context)
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:39   Link #6305
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Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
Following Gundam anime tradition so far the lead pilot never dies
Amuro would like to have a word with you, but can't anymore. :V
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:42   Link #6306
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Amuro would like to have a word with you, but can't anymore. :V
Sorry Im one of those fans who take the "MIA" as "alive until confirmed dead"

And note I am disregarding sidestories/alternate takes like Beltorchika's Children or the 0079 story where he dies
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:44   Link #6307
aeriolewinters
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Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
Following Gundam anime tradition so far the lead pilot never dies, and also I dont think Kira needed to die anyways, his development by the end of SEED was great IMO (part of the reason hes rather plain as hell in DESTINY), By the time DESTINY came around we could see he have found his resolve and moved on (though of course the past events would always haunt him for the rest of his life)

Indirectly? Lacus DIRECTLY gave him access to the Freedom to get back into the war (unless Im reading your comment in the wrong context)
It works that way, then. But I was mostly talking about the assassination attempt on Lacus more than anything.
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:45   Link #6308
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Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
Sorry Im one of those fans who take the "MIA" as "alive until confirmed dead"

And note I am disregarding sidestories/alternate takes like Beltorchika's Children or the 0079 story where he dies
Spoiler for Um:
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:46   Link #6309
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Spoiler for Um:
Did you really just spoil something for me? I know the basic Unicorn plot, but not all the fine details
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Old 2013-04-15, 03:51   Link #6310
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
That was sure the case here...right? The whole crying like hell after he failed to save Fllay was just guilt right?
Yes, but please don't try to trivialize it by saying "just" guilt, as if it's not enough. Guilt is a very strong emotion and has been part of Kira for most of SEED.
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you obviously haven't put anything either I or Eidolon have said in your mind).
And you obviously haven't put anything that Kira himself said in your mind:

Phase 26 of the remaster: "Let's put an end to this. It was a mistake."

Phase 44 of the remaster: "She's someone that I hurt! She's someone that I must protect!"

Phase 48 of the remaster: "I couldn't save you."
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So you're calling Kira a weak character because he cannot accept the 'baggage' that Fllay has? If anything those experiences, coupled with both parties' willingness to overlook them and start anew gives a better case for them if Fllay survives.
I merely said that what Admiral Larsen was describing fits Flay more than any one else.

Where did I say Kira was weak? Please read my posts more carefully next time before you start with your assumptions and accusations.
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and What baggage are you talking about?
The baggage of her past relationship with Kira.
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Oh and by the way... isn't Lacus being targetted for assassination as much baggage?
So? That said, Lacus's baggage wouldn't be as apparent to Kira. After all, her side did win at the end of SEED. And the proof of that is that they're able to live in peace for two years.
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To even add better: Kira and Fllay working out was by far the best for the setting. Saying that Kira's guilt will overcome his love for her is kind of silly and short-sighted. If anything, them not being together shoves in the thought that Coordinators and Naturals will never understand each other. Add in the fact that they gutted Cagalli and Athrun's relationship, that even if they are still together by Destiny's end, the relationship's meaning and weight for the whole conflict, is ruined
I honestly wanted Kira and Flay to get together in the end. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what I see in the show itself.
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Old 2013-04-15, 04:26   Link #6311
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I honestly wanted Kira and Flay to get together in the end. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what I see in the show itself.
I find it hard to believe, because all you've been proving is that you're pretentious enough to not pick a side and then want us to believe that you wanted them to end up together? give me a break, just be truthful .


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So? That said, Lacus's baggage wouldn't be as apparent to Kira. After all, her side did win at the end of SEED. And the proof of that is that they're able to live in peace for two years.
Okay, this just proves that 'you want them together', but I'll just go be a frontrunner for the other relationship teehee...

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Where did I say Kira was weak? Please read my posts more carefully next time before you start with your assumptions and accusations.
You imply that Kira is weak-minded. That's the point, the fact that you think Kira is going to fold under the pretenses of past emotional baggage, and instead of adhering to the 'love conquers all' mantra, is baffling and would lead everyone to question your supposed 'support' for the couple.
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Old 2013-04-15, 04:29   Link #6312
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Hope they just made an IF OVA for the Flay fans... Personally.. though I like Lacus... Flay was my first crush in seed.... Lacus was too fashionable..

Personally.. I think Kira loved Flay... "I'll protect you" is almost synonymous "I love you" in anime... Lacus meeting Kira put a a question on Kira's true feelings for Flay..

If Kira never meet Lacus before Flay's death... I think no one will doubt that Kira loves Flay...

But since he is left with Cagalli and Lacus and because Cagalli is his sister.. that leaves Lacus to be Kira's last choice.. Though I think he will surely choose Lacus over Cagalli since he had deeper feelings for Lacus than Cagalli.
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Old 2013-04-15, 04:30   Link #6313
aeriolewinters
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inb4 monster says: It would be nice, but canon matters so suck it.

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Personally.. I think Kira loved Flay... "I'll protect you" is almost synonymous "I love you" in anime...
not really, according to monstert's interpertation of things: "I'll protect you" means that " I love Lacus, so suck it!" to him
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Old 2013-04-15, 05:20   Link #6314
monster
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
I find it hard to believe, because all you've been proving is that you're pretentious enough to not pick a side and then want us to believe that you wanted them to end up together? give me a break, just be truthful .
I am. What I want isn't necessarily the same as what I believe to be true as far as the show is concerned.
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Okay, this just proves that 'you want them together', but I'll just go be a frontrunner for the other relationship teehee...
No, it shows that I acknowledge what is shown.
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You imply that Kira is weak-minded. That's the point, the fact that you think Kira is going to fold under the pretenses of past emotional baggage, and instead of adhering to the 'love conquers all' mantra, is baffling and would lead everyone to question your supposed 'support' for the couple.
Well, that's what the show tells us. Kira almost died because of the stress in phase 44 of the remaster.

I see you didn't even bother to address the evidence I brought up.
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not really, according to monstert's interpertation of things: "I'll protect you" means that " I love Lacus, so suck it!" to him
No, it means "I'll protect you" nothing more, nothing else.

But you seem to think "I'll protect you." somehow means "I love you" despite evidence to the contrary.
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Old 2013-04-15, 05:37   Link #6315
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No, it shows that I acknowledge what is shown.
no, whether Kira is stressed because of Guilt or Love is up to interpretation, which seemingly is skewing biased against them. You're just interpreting things biased against it.
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Old 2013-04-15, 05:41   Link #6316
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
This. Kira dying would've had him in peace.
He didn't have to die to find pace. in fact he looked really peaceful at the start of Destiny. Not even once did he think about the people who died in Seed, I think he moved on pretty well.


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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
and Ironically, The people claiming that Fllay would've been baggage seem to be dodging the fact that Lacus indirectly involved Kira in a war that wasn't supposed to be about them.
She didn't look all that happy when Kira stepped back into the Freedom..
Even if Lacus involved Kira directly in the war I don't think she did anything wrong. When things get tough It's ok to rely on someone you love.

Btw, Kira would have been involved in the war even if he wasn't with Lacus at that point. Durandal feared his existence and wanted him dead long before Destiny. Kira could have never had a peaceful life because of what he is.
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Old 2013-04-15, 05:43   Link #6317
monster
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
no, whether Kira is stressed because of Guilt or Love is up to interpretation, which seemingly is skewing biased against them. You're just interpreting things biased against it.
I'm interpreting based on what Kira himself said. Can you even say the same thing?
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Old 2013-04-15, 05:43   Link #6318
Om Nerabdator
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No, it means "I'll protect you" nothing more, nothing else.

But you seem to think "I'll protect you." somehow means "I love you" despite evidence to the contrary.
i gotta disagree with you there, sure literaly it means that but when said to a woman it can mean something else entirely, its one of the wonders of english a word or saying can mean 2 totally different things depending on the context
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Old 2013-04-15, 05:45   Link #6319
aeriolewinters
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Kira could have never had a peaceful life because of what he is.
On the contrary, being with Fllay instead would've made his presence less detectable. Lacus was so involved in back dealings within terminal that It gave away Kira.

Fact is: Kira staying with Fllay would've made him almost invisible to Durandal, as opposed to being with the Terminal Figurehead and expecting a peaceful life.
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Old 2013-04-15, 05:50   Link #6320
monster
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Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator View Post
i gotta disagree with you there, sure literaly it means that but when said to a woman it can mean something else entirely, its one of the wonders of english a word or saying can mean 2 totally different things depending on the context
Sure, but the context also says that he feels guilt about Flay. In phase 44 of the remaster, he acknowledged that he had hurt Flay and that he was supposed to protect Flay. Guess what? This feeling of needing to protect has been a part of Kira in most of SEED, from his friends in the Archangel, to the people in the shuttle, to even that one ZAFT soldier in Alaska.

The fact is, the last acknowledgement we have of Kira regarding his relationship with Flay is the realization that it was a mistake. So you can't just suddenly interpret his desire to protect as some special hint of love at the end when he has expressed it several times throughout the series to different people. Of course, knowing Flay, he would care for her and want to protect her even more, but that's still not the same as being in love with her.
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