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Old 2013-04-17, 17:29   Link #6401
quagmire
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
It was repaired after the battle, before the treaty was in effect. And Kira and Lacus kept it under their house, never wanting it to be used. And they used it independently. It was never fielded by the Orb military.
Even if it was rebuilt before the treaty was ratified, the treaty would mandate that the Freedom would be decommissioned due to the fact the N. Jammer canceler in MS's were outlawed. I wouldn't imagine they would grandfather any nuclear powered MS's that were already built before the treaty......

Yes, technically the Freedom wasn't a part of the Orb's military. But, the fact they possessed it and maintained it could cause the country trouble if ZAFT or the EA pressed them over it.....
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:29   Link #6402
S.Freedom
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>.<

Doh, sorry I tend to forget that the freedom is nuclear powered. Though I suppose if you really wanted to stretch/bend things. You could say that since most folks likely considered the Freedom destroyed after it's battle with Rau/the firing of genesis it didn't count. And yes I know I'm stretching.
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:34   Link #6403
Aquaman OS
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It was put into storage when AA and Eternal were which was immediately after the treaty. Considering they had Freedom fixed right away when it was wrecked by Raider, it was probably repaired just as promptly. And since Orb's military was taken a back by their reappearance, obviously they didn't repair them (they would have kept AA in service for them if they knew).

Terminal also didn't exist at the time. So they also technically didn't repair it even if it was repaired by people that would eventually become members of it.

So really, Lacus and Kira were the ones hiding it. They technically aren't a nation.
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:34   Link #6404
quagmire
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
>.<

Doh, sorry I tend to forget that the freedom is nuclear powered. Though I suppose if you really wanted to stretch/bend things. You could say that since most folks likely considered the Freedom destroyed after it's battle with Rau/the firing of genesis it didn't count. And yes I know I'm stretching.
Sure before it showed up again, it could have been considered destroyed. But once it showed back up, ZAFT could have pressed Orb over it.


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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
It was put into storage when AA and Eternal were which was immediately after the treaty. Considering they had Freedom fixed right away when it was wrecked by Raider, it was probably repaired just as promptly. And since Orb's military was taken a back by their reappearance, obviously they didn't repair them (they would have kept AA in service for them if they knew).

Terminal also didn't exist at the time. So they also technically didn't repair it even if it was repaired by people that would eventually become members of it.

So really, Lacus and Kira were the ones hiding it. They technically aren't a nation.
Being blasted by Genesis( along with the damage sustained from the Providence) isn't the same as repairing Freedom's head and wing when Raider damaged it..... I doubt repairs could have been done independently. It would have required a repair facility/factory like Morgenrate to restore Freedom.

And no doubt no name military personal would be surprised to see the Freedom again since it wasn't a part of the military officially. The restoration of the Freedom would have only been known to Cagalli, Kira, Lacus, and possibly only the other higher ups.

Last edited by quagmire; 2013-04-17 at 17:45.
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:41   Link #6405
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
It was put into storage when AA and Eternal were which was immediately after the treaty. Considering they had Freedom fixed right away when it was wrecked by Raider, it was probably repaired just as promptly. And since Orb's military was taken a back by their reappearance, obviously they didn't repair them (they would have kept AA in service for them if they knew).

Terminal also didn't exist at the time. So they also technically didn't repair it even if it was repaired by people that would eventually become members of it.

So really, Lacus and Kira were the ones hiding it. They technically aren't a nation.
To be fair, the damage the Freedom sustained from the Extended Gundams was a lot less extensive than the damage it sustained from the Providence and GENESIS. It was maimed extensively by the Providence, and the nuclear radiation from when it was caught in the blast would've played hell on its internal systems. It'd practically need to be rebuilt from the ground up, as opposed to swapping out some wrecked parts.

As for who or what did the rebuilding, it really doesn't matter. If people were still doing that inbetween things, then the treaty still accomplished nothing. With it in effect, it by all rights SHOULD have been dismantled. If everyone claims "Well we built this before the treaty was ratified, so suck it!", the effect's the same as if it had been done so afterwards.

The legality is not the real issue with the treaty. It was the effectiveness of what it tried to accomplish, which was the limitation of military power and dangerous superweapons like nuclear missiles and of their methods of delivery. The treaty outlawed their creation, but did nothing to prevent the people who'd ignore it from doing it in secret, like Blue Cosmos or Zala's fanatics.

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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
And no doubt no name military personal would be surprised to see the Freedom again since it wasn't a part of the military officially. The restoration of the Freedom would have only been known to Cagalli, Kira, Lacus, and possibly only the other higher ups.
And if Cagalli and other higher-ups in ORB knew of its continued existence, but kept it secret anyway, that'll cause a scandal if it had come to light, so it still reflects badly on them.

I'm not saying that the continued existence of Freedom was a bad thing, clearly it was good that it had been rebuilt, given how it was needed. It, however, shows how useless the Junius Treaty really was in the long run.
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:47   Link #6406
quagmire
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And if Cagalli and other higher-ups in ORB knew of its continued existence, but kept it secret anyway, that'll cause a scandal if it had come to light, so it still reflects badly on them.

I'm not saying that the continued existence of Freedom was a bad thing, clearly it was good that it had been rebuilt, given how it was needed. It, however, shows how useless the Junius Treaty really was in the long run.
And makes Cagalli a hypocrite..... " Why are you building a new ship? Why develop this power"*

*is hiding away a nuclear powered Gundam......

I could buy Cagalli not knowing of Freedom's restoration so Kira could avoid putting his sister into a tough situation politically, but someone within Orb had to have known considering Freedom needed a major facility like Morganrate to restore it.
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:48   Link #6407
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The fact the Freedom "kidnapped" Orbs chief representative during her wedding I'd think it would "obvious" that it was a rogue mobile suit not under their control. The Seirans strike me as the type to put out that sort of press release. That the Freedom/AA where "rogue" units not under the control of Orbs government/military. Heck that's exactly what Yuna did when Archangel reappeared to stop Orb/EA from destroying the Minerva.
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:52   Link #6408
quagmire
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The fact the Freedom "kidnapped" Orbs chief representative during her wedding I'd think it would "obvious" that it was a rogue mobile suit not under their control. The Seirans strike me as the type to put out that sort of press release. That the Freedom/AA where "rogue" units not under the control of Orbs government/military. Heck that's exactly what Yuna did when Archangel reappeared to stop Orb/EA from destroying the Minerva.
But the fact they tried to cover up the fact it was the Archangel and Freedom who kidnapped Cagalli, leads me to believe Orb was involved somehow.....
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Old 2013-04-17, 17:58   Link #6409
Aquaman OS
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And makes Cagalli a hypocrite..... " Why are you building a new ship? Why develop this power"*

*is hiding away a nuclear powered Gundam......

I could buy Cagalli not knowing of Freedom's restoration so Kira could avoid putting his sister into a tough situation politically, but someone within Orb had to have known considering Freedom needed a major facility like Morganrate to restore it.
For all we know Eternal repaired it. It was carrying ton of spare parts specifically to repair Freedom and Justice only. I doubt Kira would have let Morganrate touch it considering how protective he was of its tech. It was likely repaired by proto Terminal workers and snuck back to their hideaway house (which was their second remember. Their first house they were living in was wiped out during the Junius Seven drop.) just for safe keeping.

Cagalli might not have known about it. And even if she did, all she knew was Kira stashed it somewhere for his own peace of mind. She never had any intention of fielding it for the Orb military. As far as she was concerned it was as good as decomissioned, to maybe appear in a museum someday.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:01   Link #6410
S.Freedom
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Being aware of the Freedoms presence doesn't equal being involved with it's rebuilding.

And the Searans for all their jerkassary, seem rather pragmatic about things. Especially considering how quick they where to advocate for joining the EA at the start of Destiny. They where pragmatic enough to keep AA/Freedom secret realizing they may need the combined power they posses to defend Orb in any future conflict.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:03   Link #6411
quagmire
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For all we know Eternal repaired it. It was carrying ton of spare parts specifically to repair Freedom and Justice only. I doubt Kira would have let Morganrate touch it considering how protective he was of its tech. It was likely repaired by proto Terminal workers and snuck back to their hideaway house (which was their second remember. Their first house they were living in was wiped out during the Junius Seven drop.) just for safe keeping.

Cagalli might not have known about it. And even if she did, all she knew was Kira stashed it somewhere for his own peace of mind. She never had any intention of fielding it for the Orb military. As far as she was concerned it was as good as decomissioned, to maybe appear in a museum someday.
The damage was too extensive to be repaired on a ship( and the fact in Seed they said that they would do complete repairs to the Strike while Orb hid away the Archangel from ZAFT alludes to the fact ships couldn't fully repair MS's). It needed a major facility to be restored.

Again, replacing a head and a wing isn't the same as rebuilding the entire mobile suit.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:08   Link #6412
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Well they built Strike Rouge from the ground up from spare parts entirely on a ship.

Morganrote didn't repair Strike that first time. Strike wasn't even damaged. It had just wiped the floor with the Zala team. That was just an excuse to get to look at it.

Really assuming Orb had to have been involved is just being biased. Kira could have repaired it himself in their basement for all we know. He had 2 years to do it.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:11   Link #6413
Rising Dragon
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Damage will always accumulate to internal parts that can't be fixed as easily on a ship. Given the constant hit and run nature of the battles the Strike's been in, there was probably plenty of tuning it needed to go through, plus any parts that had been swapped out would need to be repaired so they could be used again later.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:19   Link #6414
Aquaman OS
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That was never an issue anywhere else.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:22   Link #6415
quagmire
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That was never an issue anywhere else.
Simply because the show never went that deep into maintenance of a MS again.....

Orb just wanted the combat data from the Strike and for Kira to develop a OS for naturals.... If they didn't do any repair work, why did they have the whole thing apart? Why did the workers mention that the Strike was " crying for attention" ( I believe those were the words by the personal) from the parts being so worn out after Kira pushed the MS to its limits. There was also an issue with the Agni cannon as well.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:27   Link #6416
Aquaman OS
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I'm sure they repaired it some. But nothing to indicate that Morganrate is some super factory that only there can fully repair MS and therefore they just HAD to be involved in fixing Freedom and therefore Orb HAD to be knowingly violating the treaty and therefore Cagalli HAD to be thinking that its ok for her nation to use Freedom but nobody elses. Which is essentially what you are suggesting.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:30   Link #6417
Rising Dragon
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Any mobile suit repair facility would be able to better repair mobile suits than the hanger bay of a warship. However, keep in mind that the Strike was made by Morganroete, and will be the most familiar with its inner workings, as I'm certain different mobile suit makers have their own method with mobile suit construction. They would be the best suited to rebuild the Strike. And the Freedom was built based on ZAFT technology AND the original Gundams, which were again built by Morganroete. If some of the ZAFT defectors went to ORB, then they'd have all they need to rebuild the Freedom, especially with what Lacus is able to procure for them.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:38   Link #6418
quagmire
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I'm sure they repaired it some. But nothing to indicate that Morganrate is some super factory that only there can fully repair MS and therefore they just HAD to be involved in fixing Freedom and therefore Orb HAD to be knowingly violating the treaty and therefore Cagalli HAD to be thinking that its ok for her nation to use Freedom but nobody elses. Which is essentially what you are suggesting.
It's not that Morganrate is some sort of super factory. It's that it is better equipped to do extensive repair jobs to MS's. You don't find that on ships. All they have is to do a good enough job to repair a MS from light damage for sortie again. They are not equipped to do overhauls, rebuilding MS's, etc.

It's like that in the real world. Aircraft carriers are not equipped to repair extensively damaged planes. Not all shipyards can repair or overhaul a Nimitz class carrier. Back in WWII, not all damage to the carrier could be repaired by the crew or by Pearl Harbor like the damage done to the Enterprise when the kamikaze blew up her forward elevator or the damage that was sustained by the Franklin. They had to go to Washington for repairs.
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Old 2013-04-17, 18:54   Link #6419
Aquaman OS
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Again though, they assembled a mobile suit (Strike Rouge) entirely from the ground up, simply with spare parts on a ship.

Meanwhile Eternal isn't just a warship, it was built for the sole purpose of housing and maintaining Freedom Justice and the Meteors. It's not that far fetched to think it could fix Freedom, simply because it itself was supposed to be a mobile repair facility. As it was they were able to build two brand new Meteors on the ship despite being hidden in a bunch of asteroids.
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Old 2013-04-17, 19:01   Link #6420
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Not to mention the three DOMS came from somewhere. And it sure didn't look like there was enough room hidden among those rocks to build them from scratch.

So unless the new meteors and DOMS where built elsewhere and brought to the Eternal afterwards they had to be built aboard the Eternal. Unless I missed something about the DOMS.
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