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Old 2013-04-24, 12:10   Link #6621
The American Average
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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
Even if you are best pilot >>> leaders can't fight in front line since than all enemy will just attack her >>> she die >>> end up without leader > chaos
looking at kira, looking at lacus, looking at athrun, looking at CE in general. besides no one ever dies if your friends with them in Destiny. we seem to believe that the Cosmic Era is more like UC right now, Literally no one in the "Good Guy" corner dies in the CE, they'll magically come back. so if Cagalli did die she'd come back as an evil villain kill a bunch of people get her memory back and all is forgiven.
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Old 2013-04-24, 12:14   Link #6622
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Leaders don't fight at front? In Destiny that was all Kira ever did. Heck for most of the series he was the Clyne Faction's only active pilot.
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Old 2013-04-24, 12:54   Link #6623
monster
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
Literally no one in the "Good Guy" corner dies in the CE, they'll magically come back.
Are you expecting for Tolle, Uzumi, and Meer to come back?
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Leaders don't fight at front? In Destiny that was all Kira ever did. Heck for most of the series he was the Clyne Faction's only active pilot.
Kira was not a political leader. He's not even a military leader until after the Orb battle in Destiny.
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:04   Link #6624
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i said Destiny. besides Meer wasn't on the "Good Guy" side after all her "i want to join you letter" turned out to be an obvious trap and if Meer didn't die the real Lacus would have been shot and killed.
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:08   Link #6625
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i said Destiny. besides Meer wasn't on the "Good Guy" side after all her "i want to join you letter" turned out to be an obvious trap and if Meer didn't die the real Lacus would have been shot and killed.
You also said CE (see my quotation). Beside, Meer died in Destiny after she joined the so-called "Good Guy" corner.

And about Meer dying so Lacus could live, you also said that they will magically come back. So my question again: Are you expecting her to come back (assuming there's a sequel)?
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:15   Link #6626
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oi vey

You can't simply declare world wide peace and expect the world to turn into one giant hugfest in .2 seconds. The underlieing causes that induce war have to be dealt with. And that isn't going to happen in 2 or 3 days. It's going to take years for them to achieve a peace that will last decades even centuries and not 2 year intervals.

I mean look at the real world for crying out loud. The UN was created at the end of WW2 to prevent global conflict. Yet even with collective efforts of the member nations we still have conflict. So saying Cagalli/Lacus can simply sign a treaty that declares peace and go their merry way is incredibly niave at best.

As for Kira remaining an active military presence. I like to take the Star Trek view of him remaining active. Going out of his way to use words to solve problems whenever possible. But armed to the teeth with massive firepower on the poor fool stupid enough to cause him to actually want to use it.
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:22   Link #6627
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no, Meer won't come back i doubt even the Cosmic Era could write that death scene off (all of the no why to survive deaths were in mobile suits), she was shot with a gun with no armor protection whatsoever. they even had a little funeral for her if i remember correctly don't remember what they did with the body though.
I don't think she really joined the "Good Guy Club" she died before she could really unless you can join good guys with a little Lacus Approval.

@S.Freedom i think the problem is we are looking at the cosmic era if it were real this era is fake what they'd do in this poorly written era is anybodies guess. Uzumi was a stubborn ahole who didn't want to play ball with anybody resulting in the Destruction of Onogoro. Patrick Zala wanted to commit mass genocide on a global scale because the "enemies" were not a coordinator. Earth Forces same a Zala just reversed. with the Peace thing like you said it'd take years to talk this down of course many skirmishes would start out so why wouldn't it be a good idea for for the military to keep training its troops.
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:24   Link #6628
monster
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
I like to take the Star Trek view of him remaining active.
That's a good idea. Starfleet isn't supposed to be a military, but they're not going to let other people attack them either.

But with Kira, as he is going to be in a military organization, he's most likely just going to be doing whatever ZAFT needs him to be doing during peace time. At most, he could be sent to unstable regions where ZAFT has an interest in, economically or politically. Or he could go there as a guard to some peace negotiator or relief effort from ZAFT.
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no, Meer won't come back i doubt even the Cosmic Era could write that death scene off (all of the no why to survive deaths were in mobile suits), she was shot with a gun with no armor protection whatsoever. they even had a little funeral for her if i remember correctly don't remember what they did with the body though.
Well, even if we specifically look at mobile suit deaths, there're still the female Astray pilots, and Tolle if you count the Skygrasper. And there's no point in just restricting it to Destiny as they're both in the same universe.
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I really don't think she really joined the "Good Guy Club" she died before she could really unless you can join good guys with a little Lacus Approval.
Why not? There's no ritual here.
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i think the problem is we are looking at the cosmic era if it were real
Well, that's what people do when discussing fiction. It's not that we think it's real, but we discuss it as if it was real simply so we don't get trapped into the idea that anything goes since it's fake anyway.

Last edited by monster; 2013-04-24 at 14:03.
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:47   Link #6629
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@The American Average Yeah I keep forgetting god kills a catgirl every time logic is applied to anime/manga.

@monster I kinda look at Kira as ZAFTs trump card much like nukes are to those countries that have them. He acts (hopefully) as a deterrence that keeps other powers at the negotiation table talking. Least he unleash his wrath on them.

Honestly I've always had this image of him working with ZAFT's military industry to improve on various technologies. He was after all an engineering student prior to Seed. Seeing him apply what he learned in a non combat setting could be interesting.
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:53   Link #6630
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Are you expecting for Tolle, Uzumi, and Meer to come back? Kira was not a political leader. He's not even a military leader until after the Orb battle in Destiny.
Better statement would be none of the lead characters die on the good guy side. Only relatively minor ones, and Antagonists. Kira Athrun Cagalli Lacus and Shinn were totally invincible. They will never ever die. The only really major good guy who "died" was Mwu and he came back. Everyone else was a minor character.

Meer might be the only exception, but she needed to die because it wouldn't do to have more than one Lacus, and of course the good guys were too holy to deliberately kill her, so they had her sacrifice herself. And even Meer was minor. She was really only in a handful of eps, vanishing for long streches of a time.

And technically Kira was leading the AA team from the start. Although Murrue outranked him (but then they were just wearing Orb uniforms for the heck of it early on, ranks were meaningless) and they intervened the first time because Cagalli asked (and even then she asked Kira, not Murrue), moblizing AA, kidnapping Cagalli, the 2nd intervention, going to Berlin, and holding back against Zaft during Angel Down and launching him into space to save Lacus was all done because Kira told them to. He was basically the boss, if not by rank but because everyone was looking to him for leadership.
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:01   Link #6631
monster
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
@monster I kinda look at Kira as ZAFTs trump card much like nukes are to those countries that have them. He acts (hopefully) as a deterrence that keeps other powers at the negotiation table talking. Least he unleash his wrath on them.
I suppose ZAFT could make him some kind of a FAITH-like agent, although I think FAITH might have been dissolved after Destiny.

If not that, the only other option would be to be Lacus's personal guard. But I don't think Lacus would keep him only as a guard, and I don't think Kira joined ZAFT only to be someone's guard, even if it is Lacus, especially not after his words to Shinn.

Without those two options, the best way for Kira is to integrate within the larger ZAFT forces, even as a ZAFT White. Like Kira said to Durandal, he doesn't believe he's special. So I think working as a fellow ZAFT soldiers would be more suited for him rather than being thought of as ZAFT's trump card.
Quote:
Honestly I've always had this image of him working with ZAFT's military industry to improve on various technologies. He was after all an engineering student prior to Seed. Seeing him apply what he learned in a non combat setting could be interesting.
Yes, that's one way Kira could integrate within ZAFT.
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Better statement would be none of the lead characters die on the good guy side. Only relatively minor ones, and Antagonists. Kira Athrun Cagalli Lacus and Shinn were totally invincible. They will never ever die. The only really major good guy who "died" was Mwu and he came back. Everyone else was a minor character.
At this point, the only reason they will never die is because there is no sequel.
Quote:
Meer might be the only exception, but she needed to die because it wouldn't do to have more than one Lacus, and of course the good guys were too holy to deliberately kill her, so they had her sacrifice herself. And even Meer was minor. She was really only in a handful of eps, vanishing for long streches of a time.
Meer only had to be Lacus for Durandal. Outside of her work for Durandal, she could be just Meer.
Quote:
And technically Kira was leading the AA team from the start. Although Murrue outranked him (but then they were just wearing Orb uniforms for the heck of it early on, ranks were meaningless) and they intervened the first time because Cagalli asked (and even then she asked Kira, not Murrue), moblizing AA, kidnapping Cagalli, the 2nd intervention, going to Berlin, and holding back against Zaft during Angel Down and launching him into space to save Lacus was all done because Kira told them to. He was basically the boss, if not by rank but because everyone was looking to him for leadership.
He's still not an actual government leader, unlike Cagalli.
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:10   Link #6632
The American Average
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Well, even if we specifically look at mobile suit deaths, there're still the female Astray pilots, and Tolle if you count the Skygrasper. And there's no point in just restricting it to Destiny as they're both in the same universe.

Why not? There's no ritual here.

Well, that's what people do when discussing fiction. It's not that we think it's real, but we discuss it as if it was real simply so we don't get trapped into the idea that anything goes since it's fake anyway.
1) all minor characters and all their deaths did something. Tolle made Kira fight Arthun with no restraints. Astray Pilots they died poorly though, they really died just to get Cagalli to go seed.

2) took Neo Many episodes to join the "Good Guy Club"

3) that last part well, in the Destiny CE everything bent to Kira and Lacus's will kind of hard to take it seriously
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:16   Link #6633
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I don't see Kira being part of Zaft rank and file any more than the Minerva crew was. He's got a super Gundam, and a unique battleship now. He'll be used as a important piece on the board.
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:20   Link #6634
monster
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
1) all minor characters and all their deaths did something. Tolle made Kira fight Arthun with no restraints. Astray Pilots they died poorly though, they really died just to get Cagalli to go seed.
Yeah, but you see what you're doing now? You're making up excuses for those who did die.

Really, there's no point in making sweeping statements that no one in the good guy camp dies.
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2) took Neo Many episodes to join the "Good Guy Club"
Neo was a prisoner (and so was Dearka in SEED). Meer specifically contacted them.
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3) that last part well, in the Destiny CE everything bent to Kira and Lacus's will kind of hard to take it seriously
Lacus did not will for Meer to die.
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I don't see Kira being part of Zaft rank and file any more than the Minerva crew was. He's got a super Gundam, and a unique battleship now. He'll be used as a important piece on the board.
The Minerva crew was part of the ZAFT rank.
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:23   Link #6635
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If not that, the only other option would be to be Lacus's personal guard. But I don't think Lacus would keep him only as a guard, and I don't think Kira joined ZAFT only to be someone's guard, even if it is Lacus, especially not after his words to Shinn.
who know?
he might join just to be Lacus guard since Durandal supporter might assassin her
+
I doubt anyone from Terminal/AA have any solider loyalty to any side
You see them using all military side cloth ( Andrew used Orb/Fed military cloth while he was in AA)

P.S.: solider loyalty = same as Shin > follow every order whatever it was good or bad
(Kira, AA, Lacus ...etc all of them leave their main faction because they didn't like to follow order like blind man)
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:26   Link #6636
The American Average
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In seed many support characters died, in destiny i guess only meer died. Neo was a prisoner however they let him go and he came back resulting in joining the "good guy club" with Lacus bending the pilot to her will you could say this was the only time that it wasn't according plan
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:51   Link #6637
monster
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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
How know?
he might join just to be Lacus guard since Durandal supporter might assassin her
That's why I specifically mentioned Kira's words to Shinn (and there's also his words to Durandal). Being Lacus's personal guard doesn't require a white uniform. It's more likely that Kira joined ZAFT to fulfill his promise to Durandal and Shinn, while at the same time still be close to Lacus.
Quote:
+
I doubt anyone from Terminal/AA have any solider loyalty to any side
You see them using all military side cloth ( Andrew used Orb/Fed military cloth while he was in AA)

P.S.: solider loyalty = same as Shin > follow every order whatever it was good or bad
(Kira, AA, Lacus ...etc all of them leave their main faction because they didn't like to follow order like blind man)
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
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In seed many support characters died in destiny i guess only meer died.
In SEED, at least 21 named characters died (not counting the three that actually survived in other media). In Destiny, at least 11 named characters died.

Altogether, Destiny simply had less characters, and less named characters dying on all sides (not just the so-called good guy camp).
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Neo was a prisoner however they let him go and he came back resulting in joining the "good guy club"
So you see, it doesn't take much to join.
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with Lacus bending the pilot to her will you could say this was the only time that it didn't go according to plan
Yeah, I think you're just stretching things.
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Old 2013-04-24, 14:57   Link #6638
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
In seed many support characters died, in destiny i guess only meer died. Neo was a prisoner however they let him go and he came back resulting in joining the "good guy club" with Lacus bending the pilot to her will you could say this was the only time that it wasn't according plan
I like the theroy that Lacus was the big bad man (last boss)


If only Arthur didn't stay in Orb and move to zaft > she will have strongest world force that no army can defeat >>>
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Lacus: Active real destiny plan!
All hail haro empire!

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I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
I mean he just have white cloth so no one from ZAFT start rolling his eye when they see him in fed/orb uniform
(He already wear Orb, Fed and ZAFT red uniform)
If ZAFT end up as bad guy again than he will crash them personally unlike other soliders who follow Durandal order till the end up though they were confused about destiny plan
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Old 2013-04-24, 15:25   Link #6639
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Movie would be great if Lacus was the big bad after all and was playing everyone - even Kira.

Than as a big send off they could have Flay's ghost appear again to "give Kira strength" as he goes to face Lacus one last time only to find out...

Lacus was a newtype all along and can use the DRAGOONs better than Mwu!

Mwahahahahaha~!

Crazy Fanfiction material right there!
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Old 2013-04-24, 15:28   Link #6640
monster
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I mean he just have white cloth so no one from ZAFT start rolling his eye when they see him in fed/orb uniform
(He already wear Orb, Fed and ZAFT red uniform)
If ZAFT end up as bad guy again than he will crash them personally unlike other soliders who follow Durandal order till the end up though they were confused about destiny plan
Yeah, but like I said, Kira doesn't need a white uniform for that, especially if his main duty is to protect Lacus.

That's why I'm thinking Kira would have a more active duty in ZAFT.
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