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Old 2013-04-25, 08:24   Link #6681
Paladinoras
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
I still think he could use a suit that has multi-role capabilities. If he's not going to use something with a Hyper Deuterion reactor, He might as well go for heavy speed and range.

Somewhat a Freedom that has better thrust and maneuverability than his old one, but limited weaponry (Bazookas, Beam Saber, Rifle)(for speed, like the aile)... Then you could switch roles with a different backpack that has the Baleanas and the Railguns (Heavy bombardment, like the Launcher) , and to round up, A dragoon pack(Specialized pack, like the Sword)
DRAGOONs will never work for a battery powered MS, so you can scrap that idea. Gunbarrels are possible but they are not as useful as one might think.

I was talking more about giving him basically a commander version of a regular grunt suit. Like, a modified GOUF Ignited or something. Something similar to what Yzak used
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Old 2013-04-25, 10:28   Link #6682
quagmire
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
DRAGOONs will never work for a battery powered MS, so you can scrap that idea. Gunbarrels are possible but they are not as useful as one might think.

I was talking more about giving him basically a commander version of a regular grunt suit. Like, a modified GOUF Ignited or something. Something similar to what Yzak used
Then what is Akatsuki's remote weapons? Aren't they DRAGOONs?
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Old 2013-04-25, 10:43   Link #6683
Gundamx
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he already used to pilot strike (2h sword, 2h gun, or 1h sword and 1h gun...etc)
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:12   Link #6684
Aquaman OS
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
I'd actually like to see what Kira can do with a lower spec suit. Back when he can't beamspam his way to ultimate victory.
We saw that with Strike Rouge. He was disabling Zaku's just as easily was with Freedom, only slowly and with one rifle. But then he tried to shield Eternal and got the arms blown off.


Which is probably why he won't ditch Strike Freedom. He likes to also be able to heroically shield the mothership as well, which didn't work out so well in a non Freedom.
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:27   Link #6685
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
We saw that with Strike Rouge. He was disabling Zaku's just as easily was with Freedom, only slowly and with one rifle. But then he tried to shield Eternal and got the arms blown off.


Which is probably why he won't ditch Strike Freedom. He likes to also be able to heroically shield the mothership as well, which didn't work out so well in a non Freedom.
Mwu shielding the mothership, Strike's shield is able to protect mothership, but Strike slowly disintegrates.

Kira shields mothership, shield blows up instantly, arms blown off.

Something is wrong here.... Unless the EA's shields are much better than Orb's shields, why could the Strike's shield withstand the Lohengrin, but couldn't handle a MS's positron cannon which is much weaker to a Lohengrin?
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:32   Link #6686
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Mwu shielding the mothership, Strike's shield is able to protect mothership, but Strike slowly disintegrates.

Kira shields mothership, shield blows up instantly, arms blown off.

Something is wrong here.... Unless the EA's shields are much better than Orb's shields, why could the Strike's shield withstand the Lohengrin, but couldn't handle a MS's positron cannon which is much weaker to a Lohengrin?
simple
he need to lose in strike to get SF

(he shouldn't lose that shield and 2 hands just because of one cannon shot...)
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:40   Link #6687
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Then what is Akatsuki's remote weapons? Aren't they DRAGOONs?
Yeah, but Akatsuki's probably running a nuclear powerplant too.

It's not stated in MAHQ, (only written as Unknown), Gundam Wiki listed it as an Ultracompact Nuclear Fission Reactor, but I'd imagine that considering it was developed when Freedom and Justice was around, I'd place my money on it running an N-Jammer Canceller too.
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:45   Link #6688
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Mwu shielding the mothership, Strike's shield is able to protect mothership, but Strike slowly disintegrates.

Kira shields mothership, shield blows up instantly, arms blown off.

Something is wrong here.... Unless the EA's shields are much better than Orb's shields, why could the Strike's shield withstand the Lohengrin, but couldn't handle a MS's positron cannon which is much weaker to a Lohengrin?
I don't think it was ever specified that a Zaku GUNNER's beam cannon is a positron cannon.

Either way, if the beam is more concentrated, it has the potential to do more damage. The Orthros beam cannons has always been shown to be pretty potent in Destiny, it was basically designed to one-shot battleships.
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:47   Link #6689
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Yeah, but Akatsuki's probably running a nuclear powerplant too.

It's not stated in MAHQ, (only written as Unknown), Gundam Wiki listed it as an Ultracompact Nuclear Fission Reactor, but I'd imagine that considering it was developed when Freedom and Justice was around, I'd place my money on it running an N-Jammer Canceller too.
So you're suggesting Orb managed to steal data on the N Jammer Canceller when Kira was the only one maintaining Freedom?
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:49   Link #6690
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Something is wrong here.... Unless the EA's shields are much better than Orb's shields, why could the Strike's shield withstand the Lohengrin, but couldn't handle a MS's positron cannon which is much weaker to a Lohengrin?
Huh, when did Kira piloting the Strike Rouge face a MS equipped with a positron cannon?

All I remember is his shield getting destroyed by an Othoros beam cannon equipped Zaku. And as Gunamx said it was a plot point to get him into the S.Freedom.

And if the S.Freedom can't be used by Kira, than Shinn won't be able to use the Destiny. Since both units are essentially powered by the same thing. It just doen't make sense imo for both Kira and Shinn to take a step backwards to less power full MS only to "upgrade" back to the S.Freedom/Destiny when it becomes necessary. That would strike me as a lousy attempt at drama or something similar.

@quagmire Who said Kira was the only one maintaining the Freedom? I mean as best we can tell, he spent the majority of his time with Lacus and reverend Malchio raising those kids. So unless he was going back to Orb to do periodic maintenance on the reactor, someone was doing it for him.
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:53   Link #6691
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Yeah, but Akatsuki's probably running a nuclear powerplant too.

It's not stated in MAHQ, (only written as Unknown), Gundam Wiki listed it as an Ultracompact Nuclear Fission Reactor, but I'd imagine that considering it was developed when Freedom and Justice was around, I'd place my money on it running an N-Jammer Canceller too.
It's probably got a battery. But because it doesn't have Phase Shift there's no massive drain to the Battery to keep it active.

Phase Shift is the main battery problem. All the grunts that run on batteries are never ever shown to have power issues despite having beam weapons. Presumably without that it can run its beam weaponry just fine.
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:55   Link #6692
quagmire
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
Huh, when did Kira piloting the Strike Rouge face a MS equipped with a positron cannon?
I thought those kind of weapons were positron based weapons. Not exactly a positron cannon, but similar beam characteristics.....

Either way, I know it was a plot point, but still a weak one to get Kira into S.Freedom.

Quote:
@quagmire Who said Kira was the only one maintaining the Freedom? I mean as best we can tell, he spent the majority of his time with Lacus and reverend Malchio raising those kids. So unless he was going back to Orb to do periodic maintenance on the reactor, someone was doing it for him.
This is during the first invasion of Orb where he was doing the maintenance of the suit because he wanted to protect the N.Jammer Canceller tech( getting Ramius to keep the Archangel's maintenance team to stay away from Freedom and telling Athrun he would shoot anybody trying to obtain the data). Since the Akatsuki was developed around this time, this would be the only time they could obtain the data on the N. Jammer Canceller. The only other time I can think of them obtaining data on the N. Jammer Canceller, is when they sided with the EA in Destiny. But, I assume Akatsuki was already built and locked away.

If Orb was involved in the reconstruction of Freedom, I guess that could have been another chance to obtain the data.
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Old 2013-04-25, 11:57   Link #6693
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That beam color in Gundam SEED is also for plasma cannons, like the Freedom's. Beams haven't always been terribly consistent in SEED. The Abyss Gundam's back-mounted cannons are also plasma cannons, but fire green particle beams.
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Old 2013-04-25, 12:02   Link #6694
S.Freedom
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
This is during the first invasion of Orb where he was doing the maintenance of the suit because he wanted to protect the N.Jammer Canceller tech( getting Ramius to keep the Archangel's maintenance team to stay away from Freedom and telling Athrun he would shoot anybody trying to obtain the data).
Emphasis on "first invasion of Orb" please. We have no idea what arragments where made after the war in order to a)rebuild the Freedom or b)hide it under the Atha family mansion. Much less build said hiding spot, since I doubt such a facility just so happened to conveniently exist for them to hide it in.
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Old 2013-04-25, 12:07   Link #6695
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
Emphasis on "first invasion of Orb" please. We have no idea what arragments where made after the war in order to a)rebuild the Freedom or b)hide it under the Atha family mansion. Much less build said hiding spot, since I doubt such a facility just so happened to conveniently exist for them to hide it in.

We don't know who rebuilt the Freedom. Could have been Orb, could have been the Clyne Faction/Terminal( or Junk Guild who knows). And I highly doubt Cagalli would tell Kira the only way she would store Freedom in Orb is if Kira gave her data on the N. Jammer canceller so they could equip the Akatsuki( a suit she wasn't supposed to know about) with it.
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Old 2013-04-25, 12:22   Link #6696
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Akatsuki was built by Uzumi apparantly shortly before the first Invasion of Seed. At that point, Freedom was untouchable to anybody but Kira since it didn't need major maintainance because it didn't need to be recharged by the AA.

While it's possible they got data from the NJC later on from Freedom, either when rebuilting it or repairing it when it was severely damaged by Raider and Forbidden, it's highly unlikely it was put in Akatsuki, especially since Cagalli herself didn't even know about the MS until it was revealed to her in Destiny.

Nor did they need Freedom's data, since NJC had already been leaked to EA in Seed anyway, and by Destiny were a widely shared technology, just illegal to have on weapons of war. If they had one installed on it between series, they didn't need Freedom, or Kira's permission to do it.

But again, I doubt it because Akatsuki was a secret project hardly anyone knew it about it. Since it's essentially a heavily modified Strike, it was likely made using the Strike's data they'd obtained when AA was first there, or when they'd managed to recover the wrecked Strike later on, and not from anything taken from Freedom.
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Old 2013-04-25, 12:31   Link #6697
quagmire
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post

While it's possible they got data from the NJC later on from Freedom ... repairing it when it was severely damaged by Raider and Forbidden, it's highly unlikely it was put in Akatsuki, especially since Cagalli herself didn't even know about the MS until it was revealed to her in Destiny.
The Eternal did repairs after the damage sustained from Raider/Forbidden which were crewed by former ZAFT personal specifically trained to do work on the Freedom and Justice. Orb personal had no involvement in that.
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Old 2013-04-25, 12:39   Link #6698
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@quagmire I never said she did. Just that we don't know how or where the Freedom was rebuilt and how it got where it was by Destiny. Anything we come up with in that regard is pure speculation and conjecture. However, Cagalli would not be the one doing the actual work assuming it was rebuilt in Orb. Morgenrate would be the one responsible for that, and I could see Kira giving them NJC tech for the akatsuki.
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Old 2013-04-25, 12:53   Link #6699
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
The Eternal did repairs after the damage sustained from Raider/Forbidden which were crewed by former ZAFT personal specifically trained to do work on the Freedom and Justice. Orb personal had no involvement in that.
Crewmen from all 3 factions were shown working all 3 ships. They were understaffed after all, since all 3 ships came from a chaotic situation. That's not to say Orb personel were definitely shown working on Freedom, but they might have been. Eternal Zaft personel were shown working on AA at the very least.
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Old 2013-04-25, 12:58   Link #6700
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
@quagmire I never said she did. Just that we don't know how or where the Freedom was rebuilt and how it got where it was by Destiny. Anything we come up with in that regard is pure speculation and conjecture. However, Cagalli would not be the one doing the actual work assuming it was rebuilt in Orb. Morgenrate would be the one responsible for that, and I could see Kira giving them NJC tech for the akatsuki.
Kira didn't seem to know about Akatsuki either. If he had, he almost certainly would have taken it with them when they left the first time to keep the Seiran's from getting their hands on it, considering they cleaned out their secret dock entirely before leaving, taking all their stored MS's and all personel except a skeleton crew with them.
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