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Old 2013-04-26, 01:21   Link #6761
Cherudim Arche
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Originally Posted by Admiral Larsen View Post
I wonder why Cagalli accepted the job even though she has got to know that she doesn't have the temperament to be a politician.
Considering that she is one of 5 royal families, I don't think she in a position to simply quit. She can't pull Lacus from the plant to run Orb. Even with Rondo Mina help, it is still a huge undertaking.
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:23   Link #6762
Destined_Fate
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Cagalli is royalty and the people needed a familiar face after what happened to ORB. Thus it makes sense to put the daughter of the Lion on the "throne". I'm also sure that Cagalli does feel some self-guilt over what happened and that it's her responsibility to rebuild ORB and shape it in the way her Father would have wanted.

Cagalli also went to see Durandal in secret and it was her decision.

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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
I don't shinn was an Ace yet but still punching on of the pilots about to stop a big comet coming down to destroy the earth that she lives on may not be the best idea. it me it seemed more Cagalli to punch him or something similar. I do agree that she needed athrun way too much during this scene if he wasn't there... man

@admiral Larsen I so agree with you more importantly why did orb even send Cagalli the Super Inexperienced Politician into this lions den of really experienced people such as Gilbert.
Shinn is their ace, he's also the only one at that point that was trained to pilot the Impulse or to utilize the Packs. This isn't really explained in Destiny but in the Astray stuff they had Shinn running tests with the Impulse in secret for quite a while and he was considered an Ace than.

That and Shinn is also a ZAFT Red and he did manage to help fend off Three Gundams in two occasions already.
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:30   Link #6763
The American Average
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if she feels like she needs to rebuild orb to its former glory why bother coming to the Plants? She would be overwhelmed with Public relations and political backlashing to care what Planets are up to in their Military. makes me wonder why she even had to butt in, in the first place
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:33   Link #6764
Destined_Fate
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She went to plants because she doesn't approve of ORB Refugees giving ORB secrets to ZAFT even though it's far too late to stop that as the damage is long since done. ZAFT isn't going to throw away everything they gained since the end of SEED because some of it may be because of ORB secrets from ORB Refugees.

Besides, she did it in secret so no one was supposed to know she was there and the visit was SUPPOSED to be short.
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:33   Link #6765
Cherudim Arche
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
if she feels like she needs to rebuild orb to its former glory why bother coming to the Plants? She would be overwhelmed with Public relations and political backlashing to care what Planets are up to in their Military. makes me wonder why she even had to butt in the first place
She is in politics. Cagalli can't beg and choose the issues left over from last war. It is what has to be done. They never said that it is going be pretty, but it has to be done for better trade relations. Which is why Cagalli when to plants to find a way to normalize their relationship with Orb.
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:37   Link #6766
The American Average
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
She went to plants because she doesn't approve of ORB Refugees giving ORB secrets to ZAFT even though it's far too late to stop that as the damage is long since done. ZAFT isn't going to throw away everything they gained since the end of SEED because some of it may be because of ORB secrets from ORB Refugees.
that what i mean, if that the case why send Cagalli if its just to get Orb Refugees why send the head head leader? you'd think they'd send the Immigration Administrator or somebody like that to get the Orbian peoples(?)
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:40   Link #6767
Destined_Fate
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Because Cagalli wants to see things first hand? She was an Action Girl in SEED and considering that not going to stuff personally ended up biting her father in the rear in the end with those Gundams....

Yeah.
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:41   Link #6768
Admiral Larsen
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I don't know if this is a place to enter it but Shin could have become a good character. In my mind, what he was supposed to represent well he is the result of the old saying "the road to hell is paid with good intentions". The main protagonists had good intentions but it resulted in them doing hellish things and now they would have to pay the price and Shin and other survivors of the last war would make sure that they paid up for their actions. Tragically it is not the case.
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:47   Link #6769
The American Average
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oh shinn could have been a great character in many ways i mean he was a great change of pace from the other Protagonists just look at all the main characters before him usually a happy go lucky, friendly personalities while shinn just wasn't that at all, and like you said "the road to hell is paid with good intentions" that kinda what he was doing through the entire series but because Kira came in and stole the Main character slot and he couldn't fully develop and understand his bloody road that he made trying to remove war
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:50   Link #6770
Destined_Fate
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There's no doubt that Shinn was set up for greatness but because of outside factors it didn't end up that way. It's why Banpresto is praised so highly for their version of Shinn as he really is a great character who grows up naturally as he's given the time he needs and is told the things that will help him... Instead of Athrun's "Good job Shinn... NOW PWANCH in the face~!!!" that TV Destiny had going on.

Banpresto also handled Shinn x Lunamaria far better.
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Old 2013-04-26, 01:53   Link #6771
Admiral Larsen
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
oh shinn could have been a great character in many ways i mean he was a great change of pace from the other Protagonists just look at all the main characters before him usually a happy go lucky, friendly personalities while shinn just wasn't that at all, and like you said "the road to hell is paid with good intentions" that kinda what he was doing through the entire series but because Kira came in and stole the Main character slot and he couldn't fully develop and understand his bloody road that he made trying to remove war
No what I meant was (and perhaps this is influenced by my hate and anger of the old cast) that Shin would have been the judge, jury and executioner since he and perhaps others who work with him are the results of the reckless and stupid actions of the old characters. In other words he would have made sure that the old characters would have paid the piper for their stupid and insane actions.
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:01   Link #6772
The American Average
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Originally Posted by Admiral Larsen View Post
No what I meant was (and perhaps this is influenced by my hate and anger of the old cast) that Shin would have been the judge, jury and executioner since he and perhaps others who work with him are the results of the reckless and stupid actions of the old characters. In other words he would have made sure that the old characters would have paid the piper for their stupid and insane actions.
He kinda was wasn't he? He destroyed Kira in the Freedom and took out athrun in the gouf any other series they would be dead as dead can be
but due to plot armor or maybe his Anti-ship sword had a teleporter device to the Archangel making that they didn't die =/
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:11   Link #6773
Cherudim Arche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Larsen View Post
I don't know if this is a place to enter it but Shin could have become a good character. In my mind, what he was supposed to represent well he is the result of the old saying "the road to hell is paid with good intentions". The main protagonists had good intentions but it resulted in them doing hellish things and now they would have to pay the price and Shin and other survivors of the last war would make sure that they paid up for their actions. Tragically it is not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
oh shinn could have been a great character in many ways i mean he was a great change of pace from the other Protagonists just look at all the main characters before him usually a happy go lucky, friendly personalities while shinn just wasn't that at all, and like you said "the road to hell is paid with good intentions" that kinda what he was doing through the entire series but because Kira came in and stole the Main character slot and he couldn't fully develop and understand his bloody road that he made trying to remove war
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
There's no doubt that Shinn was set up for greatness but because of outside factors it didn't end up that way. It's why Banpresto is praised so highly for their version of Shinn as he really is a great character who grows up naturally as he's given the time he needs and is told the things that will help him... Instead of Athrun's "Good job Shinn... NOW PWANCH in the face~!!!" that TV Destiny had going on.

Banpresto also handled Shinn x Lunamaria far better.
I doubt its better in relative terms. Sure make it a bit better in this game. That doesn't change that Shinn would have a difficult time either way. For Shinn would still be riding on the coattails of Kira and Athrun when it comes to actual influence.
As for as I am concern, it don't consider that much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Larsen View Post
No what I meant was (and perhaps this is influenced by my hate and anger of the old cast) that Shin would have been the judge, jury and executioner since he and perhaps others who work with him are the results of the reckless and stupid actions of the old characters. In other words he would have made sure that the old characters would have paid the piper for their stupid and insane actions.
Then Shinn would up for execution. Why do you praise Shinn for his heinous crime and punish Kira and Athrun? You think revenge can satisfy everything when all it is empty deal. All it gotten him is hurt relationship and disfranchise individuals around him. Don't treat Shinn with special treatment. Had been the face of the original gundam seed, maybe, but not for destiny. I do no consider him for such treatment beside being a sequel. For that is how unstable Shinn is as a character.
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:14   Link #6774
S.Freedom
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Do you want the meta reason or the pulling stuff out of my rear end reason? Well because I'm nice I'll give you both.

Meta reason: They needed to establish Shinn's character and why he's the way he is. And the perfect way to do so is by having him play off of Cagalli and to a lesser extent Athrun. And for that to happen both of them needed to go to the PLANTS.

The pulling stuff out of my arse reason: Because there wouldn't have been anywhere near enough drama if Yuna or his father had went. Because lets face it, early Yuna likely would've verbally destroyed Shinn like he did Cagalli.
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:20   Link #6775
Aquaman OS
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The problem is Shinn's anger is totally misguided and he doesn't even remotely understand the stakes of the last war. Nevermind yelling at him. Simply pointing out that the alternative was surrender and letting Blue Cosmos have their way with the Coordinators in Orb and that it was only because of Uzumi's actions that the TSA was formed who were the only ones that stopped Plant from becoming a pile of nuked out space debris and the Earth from becoming a Genesis induced waste land would probably take the wind of his sails, or at least establish him as an unreasonable jackass if he doesn't understand or care.
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:26   Link #6776
Admiral Larsen
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
The problem is Shinn's anger is totally misguided and he doesn't even remotely understand the stakes of the last war. Nevermind yelling at him. Simply pointing out that the alternative was surrender and letting Blue Cosmos have their way with the Coordinators in Orb and that it was only because of Uzumi's actions that the TSA was formed who were the only ones that stopped Plant from becoming a pile of nuked out space debris and the Earth from becoming a Genesis induced waste land would probably take the wind of his sails, or at least establish him as an unreasonable jackass if he doesn't understand or care.
At least we would have been spared a sequel and not to mention the effects of SEED and SEED Destiny on later shows.
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:29   Link #6777
Aquaman OS
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Oh shut up. They didn't deserve genocide no matter how bad Destiny got.
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:37   Link #6778
Skye629
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Originally Posted by Admiral Larsen View Post
At least we would have been spared a sequel and not to mention the effects of SEED and SEED Destiny on later shows.
And pray do tell how SEED and DESTINY affected later shows? You have been going on about it for some time

Honestly, the first half of DESTINY was not bad at all, then the director/writers had to botch it up and throw Kira into the spotlight by listening to public demand (which is not a good thing in the case of directing)

And SEED was good, not the best, but good enough (and even better than all the AUs at the time of release)


As for your earlier post about Shin: He clearly does not have the authority or the brains to be the "Judge, Jury, and Executioner". Concerning punishing the old characters, by contrast their actions are MINOR compared to the AF nuking Junius 7 and starting an all out genocidal war in which both sides committed more crimes than the TSA ever did. By your logic every single participant in the war should then be punished. And if you keep putting all the focus on Lacus and Co, then you are clearly biased and are not looking at the full picture
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:40   Link #6779
Destined_Fate
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No, it's much better. However it's fair to point out that Banpresto's SRW games are very dialogue heavy and have many Chapters/stages in it. So it's no wonder they had a very easier, cheaper, time to push in a ton of Shinn and Lunamaria development as much of that stuff happens through the talking scenes which is very cheap to throw in a ton of dialogue in that would never have fit in an episode time slot.

-

Shinn commits no heinous crimes in Destiny and is heralded as a War Hero and the image of the future of ZAFT. Especially with how well Durandal sells Shinn to the public and the fact that Shinn's abilities had saved lives(His actions with the Junius 7 colony drop and when fleeing from ORB were also well documented). Not to mention that much of humanity had sided with Durandal up to his death as many people agreed with him.
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Old 2013-04-26, 02:52   Link #6780
Skye629
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http://gundamguy.blogspot.com/2013/0...iny-hd_25.html

GG post for EP 5

Read the comments if you have the time, its highly enjoyable
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