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Old 2013-05-13, 14:16   Link #7161
Aquaman OS
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
Of Course ZAFT has footage of Freedom. And of Course Heine Knows what the Freedom is anybody who fought in the Last war should, would and does know of the Freedom. After all, it was one of the main reasons why the war ended.
Not really. Although Minerva IDed Freedom following their first encounter with them, the implication was nobody on Minerva except Athrun (and Rey who as we later find out knew exactly who and what Kira Yamato was and that he killed Rau) had ever seen it before, although they had heard of it. Shinn was even saying it couldn't be Freedom because why would Freedom attack them. Likewise nobody in Zaft knew who Kira Yamato was except Athrun Dearka Yzak (and any other former TSA guys) Rey and Durandal. They did not know he piloted Strike, and then switched to Freedom.

Orb on the other hand did know Freedom, that it's pilot was Kira Yamato and he is the brother of their head of state (which is why the allied Orb forces give him the same respect they give Cagalli)

The official story was heavily edited. The TSA was kept secret (presumably to protect all the defectors in it from getting tried by their nations so they could retire to Orb). Officially Strike was destroyed by Athrun, and its pilot was just some Natural. Freedom's theft and its pilot were kept secret. Athrun piloted Justice for Plant and then retired. I don't even know how they explained the Eternal (but it was explained somehow as Durandal had to claim it had been stolen by terrorists in order to justify attacking it)

Oh and they also kept that "Btw we were about 5 minutes from total armegeddon" thing underwraps.

So I don't know what most of them read in the Zaft history books, but it was wrong. Only people that were actually there for the end of it, and very high up people know the truth. And to be honest even people who where there might not have seen everything (Heine obviously didn't)
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Old 2013-05-13, 18:53   Link #7162
Skye629
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Not really. Although Minerva IDed Freedom following their first encounter with them, the implication was nobody on Minerva except Athrun (and Rey who as we later find out knew exactly who and what Kira Yamato was and that he killed Rau) had ever seen it before, although they had heard of it. Shinn was even saying it couldn't be Freedom because why would Freedom attack them. Likewise nobody in Zaft knew who Kira Yamato was except Athrun Dearka Yzak (and any other former TSA guys) Rey and Durandal. They did not know he piloted Strike, and then switched to Freedom.

Orb on the other hand did know Freedom, that it's pilot was Kira Yamato and he is the brother of their head of state (which is why the allied Orb forces give him the same respect they give Cagalli)

The official story was heavily edited. The TSA was kept secret (presumably to protect all the defectors in it from getting tried by their nations so they could retire to Orb). Officially Strike was destroyed by Athrun, and its pilot was just some Natural. Freedom's theft and its pilot were kept secret. Athrun piloted Justice for Plant and then retired. I don't even know how they explained the Eternal (but it was explained somehow as Durandal had to claim it had been stolen by terrorists in order to justify attacking it)

Oh and they also kept that "Btw we were about 5 minutes from total armegeddon" thing underwraps.

So I don't know what most of them read in the Zaft history books, but it was wrong. Only people that were actually there for the end of it, and very high up people know the truth. And to be honest even people who where there might not have seen everything (Heine obviously didn't)
I would assume FAITH members though would have access to this information, since they handle sensitive missions for the Chairman and council (not to mention they would be the best pilots to sortie in these situations)
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Old 2013-05-13, 19:48   Link #7163
The American Average
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my question is why does it matter if Kira Was the pilot or not for ZAFT, they wouldn't really need to document this would they? Who Kira is is pretty much irrelevant to anyone, except Arthun and Rau due to their personal problems/friendships with Kira. why would ZAFT care if Kira was Cagalli brother, or a Coordinator? Cause i doubt ZAFT (especially Durandal) wouldn't want anybody to know that Kira is the Ultimate Corrdinator so they'd say as little as possible about him right?
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Old 2013-05-13, 19:56   Link #7164
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They'd probably want to keep the Ultimate Coordinator thing underwraps yes. Although Kira piloting Strike for the EA then transfering to Freedom might have been an interesting footnote, but they wanted to keep that underwraps for political reasons. That said hiding the whole "People had to defect and fight both sides because we'd gone full genocidal were 2 minutes away from ending humanity" probably shouldn't have been covered up as it might have caused people to rethink the war thing if they'd known in Destiny instead of easily caving in and starting it up again.
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Old 2013-05-14, 03:04   Link #7165
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well i know this is off topic but i could never understand how Shinn could cut Destroy Gundam so cleanly in half. i know he has an anti ship sword but i mean really? i don't think the sword is even long enough to chop through the Destroy like he does in the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

which is even funnier to me because if he can cut mobile armors and Destroys like butter why couldn't he just cut through Athrun's Infinite Justice's Beam sabers the same way =/
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Old 2013-05-14, 03:17   Link #7166
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if he can cut mobile armors and Destroys like butter why couldn't he just cut through Athrun's Infinite Justice's Beam sabers the same way =/
I don't think the Infinite Justice's beam saber was ever shown blocking the Destiny's beam sword.
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Old 2013-05-14, 03:20   Link #7167
The American Average
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I don't think the Infinite Justice's beam saber was ever shown blocking the Destiny's beam sword.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEWbBQzuCCk 2:54 Arthrun flipping cuts through Shinn's anti-ship sword
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Old 2013-05-14, 03:37   Link #7168
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEWbBQzuCCk 2:54 Arthrun flipping cuts through Shinn's anti-ship sword
It's a bit too fast to judge properly, but I think the saber cuts the sword from the solid side. That is one disadvantage of such swords.
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Old 2013-05-14, 03:38   Link #7169
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Shinn has a solid sword with a beam edge, Athrun has a beam saber made of nothing but beam. There's nothing to cut but the hilts, which are nigh impossible to hit when they're mostly covered up in the MS's hand, so you'd have better luck chopping off the hand itself. Meanwhile all Athrun has to do is force his beam through Shinn's beam to reach the solid sword part. Meanwhile Shinn can't cut Athrun's blade. It's not solid.

That's why it's an Anti-SHIP sword. It allows a thicker cut against a solid object but it wasn't really mean for dueling another MS with it.
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Old 2013-05-14, 03:51   Link #7170
The American Average
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
It's a bit too fast to judge properly, but I think the saber cuts the sword from the solid side. That is one disadvantage of such swords.
i doubt that, Arthrun swings upwards and Shinn just lets it hang out there doubt Athrun cut metal to beam.

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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Shinn has a solid sword with a beam edge, Athrun has a beam saber made of nothing but beam. There's nothing to cut but the hilts, which are nigh impossible to hit when they're mostly covered up in the MS's hand, so you'd have better luck chopping off the hand itself. Meanwhile all Athrun has to do is force his beam through Shinn's beam to reach the solid sword part. Meanwhile Shinn can't cut Athrun's blade. It's not solid.

That's why it's an Anti-SHIP sword. It allows a thicker cut against a solid object but it wasn't really mean for dueling another MS with it.
two things with this why would a plain beam saber have more energy/heat/whatever output that an anti ship sword? should they be in the same energy output or Ship sword even have considering what its meant for. my second point Then if Beam sabers are that much better why the Heck even make Anti ship swords?

More of an observation but why in the holy hell was Shinn dueling Athrun with a huge sword in the first place Shinn has beam sabers on his shoulders why didn't he use those. my guess is lack of animation =p
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Old 2013-05-14, 04:02   Link #7171
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Destiny's Beam Saberang (Boomerang in beam saber mode) doesn't extend that far compared to IJ's Beam Saber, so that's a disadvantage in range.
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Old 2013-05-14, 04:06   Link #7172
Aquaman OS
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I think most beam weapons have the same output, (since beam sabers in CE don't really overpower another) so it comes down to Athrun getting more force behind his blow to push through the beam and reach the blade. Note that it took several clashes for it to break so he just hit it at just the right spot that one time.

Although Ship swords do have an advantage against sabers in one respect. They can cut through solid shields very easily, as shown with Impulse vs Freedom, and Destiny vs Akatsuki, unfortunately IJ has a solid shield with a beam shield on top of that so it wouldn't work. Plus they do more damage against larger targets like ships or Destroys.

As for why Shinn insists on using that sword, chalk it up to it becoming his favorite weapon after he took out Freedom with it. And it works fine against everything other than Freedom and Justice. Plus Shinn's skills started to deteriorate after getting used to being able to kill enemies with ease thanks to Destiny's power.

And yes, the boomerang sabers would have significantly shorter reach compared to Athrun's double ended beam saber. As it is he tried the saberrang once and Athrun easily blocked it with his shield and backhanded it away. It wasn't strong enough.

Although as people have pointed out, he is only given Destiny after all enemy Gundam's were destroyed or recaptured and Durandal wasn't expecting SF and IJ to arrive. It was designed to be an enforcer against weaker MS, and big mobile armors which it does just fine and possibly was never expected to go up against an equally powerful MS of its size.
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Old 2013-05-14, 04:12   Link #7173
Kirayuki
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
As for why Shinn insists on using that sword, chalk it up to it becoming his favorite weapon after he took out Freedom with it. And it works fine against everything other than Freedom and Justice. Plus Shinn's skills started to deteriorate after getting used to being able to kill enemies with ease thanks to Destiny's power.
I think it's not only about the suit, it's more like "Who thought there is someone trying to break the sword from frontal clash?".
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Old 2013-05-14, 04:41   Link #7174
monster
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
i doubt that, Arthrun swings upwards and Shinn just lets it hang out there doubt Athrun cut metal to beam.
With an upward swing, if it's at the right angle and distance, it's still possible for the saber to reach the solid part of the sword from the side.
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Old 2013-05-14, 05:01   Link #7175
Skye629
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
well i know this is off topic but i could never understand how Shinn could cut Destroy Gundam so cleanly in half. i know he has an anti ship sword but i mean really? i don't think the sword is even long enough to chop through the Destroy like he does in the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

which is even funnier to me because if he can cut mobile armors and Destroys like butter why couldn't he just cut through Athrun's Infinite Justice's Beam sabers the same way =/
Its an anime, Cool factor > physics and common sense in majority of cases

eg. 3 slashes from Freedom BREAKS the Saviour apart at practically every joint, lolwut?

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With an upward swing, if it's at the right angle and distance, it's still possible for the saber to reach the solid part of the sword from the side.
He could always adjust the angle too after blades make contact, and are locked, that would give him a chance to cut through the sword as he did

In all of SEED I have never seen a beam saber overpower another beam saber, so Im under the assumption that beam sabers have about equal output
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Old 2013-05-14, 05:18   Link #7176
monster
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Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
slashes from Freedom BREAKS the Saviour apart at practically every joint
It might be 4/5 slashes. One for the right hand and head, one for the left hand, and 2/3 for the legs. And of course, these slashes could also cut through anything that sticks out from the Saviour's back, increasing the amount of "debris" from the Saviour.
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Old 2013-05-14, 05:25   Link #7177
Skye629
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It might be 4/5 slashes. One for the right hand and head, one for the left hand, and 2/3 for the legs. And of course, these slashes could also cut through anything that sticks out from the Saviour's back, increasing the amount of "debris" from the Saviour.
The biggest issue I have it that it BREAKS, I dont see any super heated and clean cuts from the beam slices

Ok actually the biggest issue I had was the whole fight, the Saviour is one of my all time favorite suits >_> (though I do like the Vent Saviour colors and name a bit better, more fitting), with Athrun's melee skills he should have taken at least an arm from the Freedom in that fight, instead it was completely one sided once Kira Seed'ed
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Old 2013-05-14, 05:26   Link #7178
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don't forget also chopping one of the V fins on the head in half in addition to chopping the head off.
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Old 2013-05-14, 06:21   Link #7179
Gundamx
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slashes from Freedom BREAKS the Saviour apart at practically every joint
maybe he pull tri-edge?
( 3 slash >>> Inverted "A" shape )
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Old 2013-05-14, 08:05   Link #7180
monster
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Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
The biggest issue I have it that it BREAKS, I dont see any super heated and clean cuts from the beam slices
Is it supposed to have clean cuts all the times? Some other slices do not have them either, like what happened with Heine's Gouf.
Quote:
Ok actually the biggest issue I had was the whole fight, the Saviour is one of my all time favorite suits >_> (though I do like the Vent Saviour colors and name a bit better, more fitting), with Athrun's melee skills he should have taken at least an arm from the Freedom in that fight, instead it was completely one sided once Kira Seed'ed
Hah, someone who couldn't even be consistently serious with the Chaos doesn't stand a chance against a serious Kira.
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don't forget also chopping one of the V fins on the head in half in addition to chopping the head off.
I doubt they were both done with the same slice.
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