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Old 2013-05-20, 15:08   Link #7261
Skye629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
S.Freedom:

Why do you want Heine to have more dialog? His character had a purpose, a very simple one: kickstart Athrun's "development" in the 2nd half of Destiny. So it makes sence for him to be a flat character.. If you try to flash out every single character who is, in this case, not even part of the main plot, you'll end up polluting the script and you'll lose overall direction. It's important to keep characters like Heine simple and flat so that you don't slow down the pacing of the story.

This is in my opinion one of the few things that Fukuda did get right in Destiny, So I hope Heine's characters doesn't change.
They dont have to change him, a little backstory never hurts and it fleshes out the character more

Doing this wont change the plot either unless they decide to go completely overboard and retcon stuff
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Old 2013-05-20, 16:02   Link #7262
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
They dont have to change him, a little backstory never hurts and it fleshes out the character more

Doing this wont change the plot either unless they decide to go completely overboard and retcon stuff
As I have already pointed out, it's unnecessary. Heine doesn't need to be anything more than what he is (for the purpose of his character). And giving him a backstory means more screen time for Heine, wich need to be taken from somewhere else, wich in turn will mess up the pacing of the show. And at this point, the pacing of the show is probably the best thing about Destiny. (and the music) So let's not try to fix something that's not broken.
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Old 2013-05-20, 16:12   Link #7263
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Taken from somewhere else? Not necessarily. Given the amount of clip shows Destiny had, there was plenty of time that could be used for developing Heine, among other things.

Destiny's pacing was messy at times anyway.
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Old 2013-05-20, 16:16   Link #7264
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flash back fest = a lot of free space
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Old 2013-05-20, 16:37   Link #7265
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Taken from somewhere else? Not necessarily. Given the amount of clip shows Destiny had, there was plenty of time that could be used for developing Heine, among other things.
I think we are talking about giving Heine more screen time in the limited amount episodes he already appears in.. As for writing new episodes instead of recaps, sure! they can do that. But from what I understand thats not the point of a remaster, they'll probably end up blowing the entire budget for the remaster project on a new episode.


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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Destiny's pacing was messy at times anyway.
At this point in the show it's great, it's actually better than a lot of other Gundam shows.
And yes, I know it'll all go down the toilet in a couple of episodes.
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Old 2013-05-20, 21:40   Link #7266
Skye629
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
I think we are talking about giving Heine more screen time in the limited amount episodes he already appears in.. As for writing new episodes instead of recaps, sure! they can do that. But from what I understand thats not the point of a remaster, they'll probably end up blowing the entire budget for the remaster project on a new episode.



At this point in the show it's great, it's actually better than a lot of other Gundam shows.
And yes, I know it'll all go down the toilet in a couple of episodes.
Were not saying they need a whole new episode, just a quick scene or two (like a brief 5 second flashback of Heine's memory in the last war with him fighting)

Last I checked Destiny had plenty of repeat clips they could easily cut from fight scenes etc. Theres plenty of potential room for new remastered stuff, even if they are brief
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Old 2013-05-20, 22:41   Link #7267
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Well they seemed to like adding in more Lunamaria calling for Shinn.

Shame when they're together they don't have Lunamaria mention that she was looking for Shinn. So they feel kinda just there and forgotten.
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Old 2013-05-21, 00:26   Link #7268
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the Luna/Shinn Relationship really just came out of nowhere for me. even if the HD is adding Luna looking around for shinn, even calling out for him won't change that. They never felt like a couple it always seemed like they were more "Bro's" from the beginning of the series to the end it was just after Meyrin and Stella died/disappeared they used each other for comfort to ease their loss. Some may see that as a "relationship" but i don't.
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Old 2013-05-21, 07:55   Link #7269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
the Luna/Shinn Relationship really just came out of nowhere for me. even if the HD is adding Luna looking around for shinn, even calling out for him won't change that. They never felt like a couple it always seemed like they were more "Bro's" from the beginning of the series to the end it was just after Meyrin and Stella died/disappeared they used each other for comfort to ease their loss. Some may see that as a "relationship" but i don't.
I can agree here, to an extent. I think they just threw them together to make sure the main character had a love interest at the end.

But, I do think Luna did care about Shinn more than just as a "bro" earlier in the series, but not at the level of "love interest."
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Old 2013-05-21, 12:05   Link #7270
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Athrun, Athrun, what do you think you're doing? You're a soldier. What can you do to stop a war that politicians start? The only thing you're good for is fighting, and you can't even do that correctly for most of Destiny.

And if you think leaving Cagalli with a ring is enough to expect that Cagalli should be able to handle everything, then you really don't understand the situation in Orb. And if you don't understand the situation in Orb, where you've lived for the past two years, again, what can you do in the PLANTs?

It's so frustrating to see them inventing some lame drama for Athrun by making him stupid and regressing back to his SEED days.

Thankfully, this episode ends with Shinn and Kira, awww. I love the scene, and especially the music
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Old 2013-05-21, 13:06   Link #7271
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Originally Posted by JagdPanther View Post
But, I do think Luna did care about Shinn more than just as a "bro" earlier in the series, but not at the level of "love interest."
I do agree the LunaxShinn relationship seemed forced at the end. I still see them as really good friends but not lovers. At most I could see them as friends with benefits. You know the occasional night of sex but without them being a couple.

I honestly saw them becoming a couple at the end the same way I saw Kira and Flay becoming a "couple" during the early part of Seed. As two emotionally crippled* individuals who became dependent on the other for support. Because god knows the adults aboard the Archangel namely Mu & Marrue didn't do a damn thing to help either of them.

*or pretty damn close anyway

@monster Are you really that surprised they ruined Athruns character for more drama? Assuming however briefly that they intended to bring Kira and the Archangel back from the get go. Without having Athrun aboard the Minerva Kira wouldn't have had the same reluctance to destroy them as he did. He would've just mowed them down and ended things by episode 30 at most. Besides it likely would've made the Minerva's crew look worse than what eventually happened to them if Kira simply came in and moped the floor with them from the getgo. So they needed a reason for him to hold back, thus Athruns involvement.

I don't like it any more than you do. But I think the alternatives could have been worse.
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Old 2013-05-21, 15:28   Link #7272
monster
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
@monster Are you really that surprised they ruined Athruns character for more drama?
Surprised? No, just disappointed.
Quote:
Assuming however briefly that they intended to bring Kira and the Archangel back from the get go. Without having Athrun aboard the Minerva Kira wouldn't have had the same reluctance to destroy them as he did. He would've just mowed them down and ended things by episode 30 at most.
Uh, no, having Athrun there does not matter to Kira. He wasn't trying to destroy the Minerva, or any other ship, in the first place.
Quote:
Besides it likely would've made the Minerva's crew look worse than what eventually happened to them if Kira simply came in and moped the floor with them from the getgo.
Except Kira did do that.
Quote:
So they needed a reason for him to hold back, thus Athruns involvement.
Not really, they could've made any of the newer pilots hold Kira down if they wanted to.
Quote:
I don't like it any more than you do. But I think the alternatives could have been worse.
Frankly, it just amazes me that it seems like most people gave Athrun a pass in Destiny and yet complained on every little thing that they thought Shinn or Kira or Lacus or Cagalli or Lunamaria or whoever did wrong.

At least, that's my impression over the years from the admittedly very tiny corner of the internet that I inhabit.
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Old 2013-05-21, 15:50   Link #7273
Gundamx
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Athrun have the power of fan girl to back him up
believe you don't want to anger Athrun fan girl or you will end up without any girlfriend till the end of your life ( joke)

normally the use simple plan
someone badmouth Athrun?
just throw who is stronger shin or kira bait and the whole talking about Athrun will disappears
(another joke)
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Old 2013-05-21, 15:52   Link #7274
S.Freedom
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As bad as Kira made Minerva look with Athrun helping out. Just think about how badly Minerva would have been screwed over had Kira/Athrun been working together from the getgo instead of the last ten episodes.

I blame Athruns actions on Fakuda trying to give him daddy issues in an attempt to make him deeper than he was. It was an attempt to make him more relatable to Shinn, so he could mentor Shin along the "right" path. Unfortunately we saw how that worked out in the long run.
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Old 2013-05-21, 16:00   Link #7275
The American Average
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Frankly, it just amazes me that it seems like most people gave Athrun a pass in Destiny and yet complained on every little thing that they thought Shinn or Kira or Lacus or Cagalli or Lunamaria or whoever did wrong.
that is so true. I Think out of all the Characters, Athrun was the worst with his ups and downs never deciding what he was doing. Personally I thought Athrun was one the main reasons Destiny went wrong in the first place.
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Old 2013-05-21, 16:38   Link #7276
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
Were not saying they need a whole new episode, just a quick scene or two (like a brief 5 second flashback of Heine's memory in the last war with him fighting)
again, his character doesn't need more backstory. This character is fine the way he is. just my 2 cents.. I wouldn't change anything, that's all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skye629 View Post
Last I checked Destiny had plenty of repeat clips they could easily cut from fight scenes etc. Theres plenty of potential room for new remastered stuff, even if they are brief
Sure, in Destiny they used a lot of flashback scenes where they weren't needed. But there were some, especially in the first 10 / 15 episodes where the flashbacks added some value to the overal narrative and helped with the pacing of several scene.. So I hope they don't go overboard with deleting the flashbacks. At least, not at this point in the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
At most I could see them as friends with benefits. You know the occasional night of sex but without them being a couple.
Don't you think even a relationship as fuck buddies requires some sxualtention between the two individuals?

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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
I honestly saw them becoming a couple at the end the same way I saw Kira and Flay becoming a "couple" during the early part of Seed. As two emotionally crippled* individuals who became dependent on the other for support.
This is a strange comparison.. The Kira x Flay relationship is infinitely better written. It made perfect sense for Kira and Flay to look for each other after what happend.. It might be the best written romantic relationship in Gundam so far. and Shinn x Luna one of the worst.
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Old 2013-05-21, 18:31   Link #7277
Skye629
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
again, his character doesn't need more backstory. This character is fine the way he is. just my 2 cents.. I wouldn't change anything, that's all.
Its not new though, it have already been established that he fought in the last war, so a brief 5 second flashback of him thinking back to the previous war and gritting his teeth in frustration would NOT change anything other than taking up 5 or so seconds from a series with plenty of clips to replace
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Old 2013-05-21, 18:53   Link #7278
S.Freedom
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
Don't you think even a relationship as fuck buddies requires some sxualtention between the two individuals?

This is a strange comparison.. The Kira x Flay relationship is infinitely better written. It made perfect sense for Kira and Flay to look for each other after what happend.. It might be the best written romantic relationship in Gundam so far. and Shinn x Luna one of the worst.
Just curious, but what does "sxualtention" mean?

As for the comparison between KiraxFlay and ShinnxLuna. What else would you compare it to honestly? Neither relationship is healthy on a mental level as far as I'm concerned. And that was the point I was making, that neither relationship started for what could be considered the "right" reasons.
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Old 2013-05-21, 19:18   Link #7279
Gundamx
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
Just curious, but what does "sxualtention" mean?

As for the comparison between KiraxFlay and ShinnxLuna. What else would you compare it to honestly? Neither relationship is healthy on a mental level as far as I'm concerned. And that was the point I was making, that neither relationship started for what could be considered the "right" reasons.
at least Kira like Fllay (ep1)
+
both of them have good reason for the relation even if it's "not healthy on a mental level "
(Flay = revenge // Kira need kindness or his mentality will break down)

but shin x luna =
Shin: yo, I killed your sister!
Luna: Who care! let's f***!
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Old 2013-05-21, 19:34   Link #7280
BladeEntity
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
Just curious, but what does "sxualtention" mean?

As for the comparison between KiraxFlay and ShinnxLuna. What else would you compare it to honestly? Neither relationship is healthy on a mental level as far as I'm concerned. And that was the point I was making, that neither relationship started for what could be considered the "right" reasons.
I think his point was not how badly the couple is because of how they got together but rather how well developed and executed the pairing was. Kira x Fllay was better written and made sense from the narative but was way more unhealthy and more for the wrong reasons compared to Shinn and Luna.
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