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Old 2013-05-31, 07:09   Link #7341
S.Freedom
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Meh, never liked this episode. As durandal came off as a snake not to be trusted. Seriously, the first time I watched this episode I knew Durandal couldn't be trusted for a nanosecond.
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Old 2013-05-31, 07:16   Link #7342
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So two more episodes left until Kira's epic comeback. I love that scene.
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Old 2013-05-31, 12:07   Link #7343
monster
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Meh, never liked this episode. As durandal came off as a snake not to be trusted. Seriously, the first time I watched this episode I knew Durandal couldn't be trusted for a nanosecond.
You don't like an episode simply because a character doesn't appear trustworthy?
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Old 2013-05-31, 12:41   Link #7344
S.Freedom
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What's to like about the episode? Durandal playing Athrun like a fool and rapping him around his little finger?

The only decent part of the episode was the reveal of the Saviour. That and Kira's flashback to Rau's comments at the end of the last war.
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Old 2013-05-31, 12:43   Link #7345
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Durandal wasn't playing Athrun like a fool; Athrun is a fool.
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Old 2013-05-31, 12:54   Link #7346
S.Freedom
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Which just makes the episode worse. I was at least trying to give Athrun some credit for not being a complete moron.

But like I said, that was my impression the first time I saw the episode. Which is somewhere between 4 and 6 years ago. Watching the rest of the series hasn't given me any real reason to like the episode or Durandal.
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Old 2013-05-31, 13:02   Link #7347
The American Average
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the thing i kinda disliked the episode is that Shinn barely showed up in it i think all he did that ep was punch a wall. he's still main character ya know in this part of the show. Now Durandal never seemed like a snake to me in this episode, he looked rather pathetic, admitting that he needs Athrun for his power as well as making a fake Lacus. And this episode is one of the main reasons I can't stand Lacus, the people on the Plant making a totally reasonable response to the just happened Nuclear attack wondering what happens next with anger and fear. Then "Lacus" magically appears and says "stop worrying" and then everybody is better because Lacus said so.
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Old 2013-05-31, 14:06   Link #7348
monster
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Which just makes the episode worse. I was at least trying to give Athrun some credit for not being a complete moron.
To be clear, Athrun isn't a fool for listening to Durandal, he's a fool for thinking he has a responsibility about other people believing in his father's ideals and for doubting what he fought for in SEED.

In fact, Durandal was right in this episode.
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Now Durandal never seemed like a snake to me in this episode, he looked rather pathetic, admitting that he needs Athrun for his power as well as making a fake Lacus.
Making use of other people's help isn't pathetic, it's the best way for a politician to get things done.
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And this episode is one of the main reasons I can't stand Lacus, the people on the Plant making a totally reasonable response to the just happened Nuclear attack wondering what happens next with anger and fear. Then "Lacus" magically appears and says "stop worrying" and then everybody is better because Lacus said so.
To be fair, the real Lacus never got that kind of reaction.

And really, this "Lacus" was the one making a "totally reasonable" response. She's asking the people to remain calm and let the government do their job of protecting the PLANTs. Rioting/protesting would not be productive, and she's just reminding the people of that.
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Old 2013-05-31, 14:43   Link #7349
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In fact, Durandal was right in this episode.
I'll give you that he was right in that Athrun wasn't responsible for how others viewed his fathers words or acted upon them. That's not really the issue I have with him in this episode.

He clearly saw how Athrun was affected by how others viewed and acted upon his fathers words/ideals. He than used that "vulnerability" to his advantage to get Athrun to do what he wanted him to do. Not that Athrun gave him much trouble because of his own self doubt. He's a classic b!tch in sheep's clothing.
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Old 2013-05-31, 14:47   Link #7350
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He clearly saw how Athrun was affected by how others viewed and acted upon his fathers words/ideals. He than used that "vulnerability" to his advantage to get Athrun to do what he wanted him to do. Not that Athrun gave him much trouble because of his own self doubt. He's a classic b!tch in sheep's clothing.
Isn't that what a good politician/villain should do? That's why I'm surprised that someone would not like an episode because a character does what he's supposed to do.
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:03   Link #7351
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I suppose I'm just weird that way.

Which is odd since I'm not nearly as annoyed by the shows other villains like Rau, Patrick, Azreal or Djribril. Rau I find creepy, Patrick I find sympathetic in a screwed up way, and Azreal/Djrbril I just find pathetic.

Go figure
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:04   Link #7352
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Making use of other people's help isn't pathetic, it's the best way for a politician to get things done.
I'll give you that it just seemed he was kinda begginf to much for Athruns help well to me any way.

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To be fair, the real Lacus never got that kind of reaction. And really, this "Lacus" was the one making a "totally reasonable" response. She's asking the people to remain calm and let the government do their job of protecting the PLANTs. Rioting/protesting would not be productive, and she's just reminding the people of that.
the Real Lacus in the Last war said stop fighting and everyone did (i know i'm super generalizing but that's what happened more or less)

now my big beef with fake Lacus telling everyone to stop, for me was stupid in how they did it. Yes rioting people not good, yes Government needs to do their job, but why in the holy hell did every single person in the Plants just go "yeah sure" to a pop idol? Lacus may have been in the final battle of Seed but, Kira and Athrun did most if not all the work in that battle. jeez why would they just respect her enough to do that? I guess i just can't see why Lacus so well respected in Seed/Destiny Universe by its characters she just a daughter of some ex-chairman shes not the politician. her dad was, its not like all his experience was transferred to her
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:08   Link #7353
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Question: Was Lacus' actions during the previous war ever fully explained to the public besides her peace broadcasts against Patrick Zala? Because that may explain the amount of influence she has besides being a popular singer.

For example the populace may be thinking along the lines from information given that she helped end the previous war through her actions with the 3 Ship alliance. Obviously the government is not gonna say anything else like "she stole a warship and intervened in the war using two stolen/defected nuclear powered mobile suits" etc.

For all we know the ZAFT administration could have played her for a hero following Patrick Zalas death
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:14   Link #7354
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I don't think so sky629. And she was more than a pop star, she's also the daughter of a former head of state. Which seems to be overlooked a lot.

@The American Average So your saying there is no way Sigel Clyne could have been grooming Lacus to eventually take his place? Because the way your making it sound, Lacus was some ditzy broad who sung a lot. By the few indications that where given, she was actively supporting her father in a political manner. She may not have had an official position in his campaign, but she aided him none the less.
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:20   Link #7355
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I don't think so sky629. And she was more than a pop star, she's also the daughter of a former head of state. Which seems to be overlooked a lot.
would you take Obama's kid serious in war time if they told you to stop fighting? I know I wouldn't why would Lacus being any different?
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:25   Link #7356
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Obama's kids haven't been actively supporting their fathers political career. Lacus by what few tidbit's we've gotten did.

And if Sasha or Malia(?) could sic Kira/Athrun at me I'd give it some thought.
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:34   Link #7357
monster
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the Real Lacus in the Last war said stop fighting and everyone did (i know i'm super generalizing but that's what happened more or less)
The fighting stopped only after both sides had suffered major casualties and their big weapons and leaders were destroyed/killed.
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now my big beef with fake Lacus telling everyone to stop, for me was stupid in how they did it. Yes rioting people not good, yes Government needs to do their job, but why in the holy hell did every single person in the Plants just go "yeah sure" to a pop idol? Lacus may have been in the final battle of Seed but, Kira and Athrun did most if not all the work in that battle. jeez why would they just respect her enough to do that?
Who are Kira and Athrun to these people? Meanwhile, they all knew who Lacus was and what she stood for. One of them even said that he's heard Lacus spoke at Jachin Due.
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I guess i just can't see why Lacus so well respected in Seed/Destiny Universe by its characters she just a daughter of some ex-chairman shes not the politician. her dad was, its not like all his experience was transferred to her
In case you didn't know, sometimes being a politician can make you not be respected. That Lacus wasn't officially a politician is an advantage to her as far as gaining the people's support. They can trust that she's not saying what she said only to remain in power.
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Old 2013-05-31, 15:35   Link #7358
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Obama's kids haven't been actively supporting their fathers political career. Lacus by what few tidbit's we've gotten did.
Personally, the few scenes I remember, Lacus being a political person she was just throwing her father political name around to get her way. the scene when Rau was going in to Destroy the AA after they just got Lacus back and stop Rau Le Creuset. to tell the truth i don't remember much of Lacus in seed she kinda bugged me so kind forgot most of her scenes.

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And if Sasha or Malia(?) could sic Kira/Athrun at me I'd give it some thought.
lol
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Old 2013-05-31, 16:25   Link #7359
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That Lacus wasn't officially a politician is an advantage to her as far as gaining the people's support. They can trust that she's not saying what she said only to remain in power.
That's what i don't get. I guess it just bugs me how every single person agreed with Lacus maybe if like a couple people said something "What do you know" it would have been easier for me to swallow.

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@The American Average So your saying there is no way Sigel Clyne could have been grooming Lacus to eventually take his place? Because the way your making it sound, Lacus was some ditzy broad who sung a lot. By the few indications that where given, she was actively supporting her father in a political manner. She may not have had an official position in his campaign, but she aided him none the less.
Where and when would Sigel have the time to teach her? isn't Lacus a super popular pop idol, wouldn't she be on tours and interviews with TV? When LAcus was first shown in Seed she literally was a ditzy broad that only sang, some were between Kira's Strike and Athruns Aegis she got some balls to tell Rau to stop attacking when it was totally a opportune time to attack. Even if few indications were given doesn't mean much, If i remember correctly didn't Lacus just stand by her father when ever they were together she just stood there doing nothing while Sigel talked wouldn't really call that aiding

Cagalli make sense in why she knows about Politics its clear that she was going be next of State when her father retired. Orb seemed to be bloodlines rule while Plants Chairman seem to be elected. We see several times Uzumi teaching and telling Cagalli how things work while i can't really name one time Sigel took Lacus to the side and taught her some political tips for the future.
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Old 2013-05-31, 16:29   Link #7360
monster
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That's what i don't get. I guess it just bugs me how every single person agreed with Lacus maybe if like a couple people said something "What do you know" it would have been easier for me to swallow.
Uh, what does she know? She was there experiencing the same thing they were. Some of them even remembered that she was even in the last battle of the previous war.
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