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Old 2013-05-31, 16:35   Link #7361
The American Average
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Uh, what does she know? She was there experiencing the same thing they were. Some of them even remembered that she was even in the last battle of the previous war.
thats not my point. i'm just saying why is everyone agreeing with her? never in a million year that every single person in a really large group 100% agree with each other. why aren't there some, even a really tiny part of the people say, they need to kill the naturals for revenge or something. That's what i don't get and at this rate i never will.
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Old 2013-05-31, 17:05   Link #7362
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SAVIOUR <3 (I prefer to spell it with the "U", looks cooler)

I LOVE THIS MS SO MUCH XD

1. Transformable
2. Awesome design
3. 2 Giant Cannons
Too bad it's taken out so quickly despite being awesome... They didn't even repair it and let Lunamaria pilot it!
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Old 2013-05-31, 17:22   Link #7363
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Lacus was basically Siegal's political heir. He schooled her extensively and his support group was as loyal to her as they were to him when he died. We don't see this of course

Pop star was a poor choice, I assume so Rie Tanaka could sing for the show but she wasn't a pop star in the way Meer was. She sang a few sad ballads, made some records and basically otherwise sang for charity and stuff. She was mostly retired by the time Seed started except for peace events and stuff. She's not Britney Spears in the eyes of Plant, she's like...Frank Sinatra, Elton John or some other singer that's actually well respected my the masses and if they started talking politics people might consider their words.

Meer was essentially a mockery of Lacus.

And her ditzy act was just that, an act. If you didn't notice by how she kept breaking out of her room and tee heeing it off, she was simply acting naive and harmless so the "enemy" wouldn't think she was a threat and she could assess the Earth Forces without being treated like an enemy soldier. Her "real" self came out when she ordered Rau off.
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Old 2013-05-31, 17:31   Link #7364
Gundamx
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Lacus in last war == stop fighting or we will crush you with Freedom, Justice, Strike, ArchAngel and Terminal!!!

Lacus in last war not same as fake Lacus
(Real Lacus can back up her demanded/words)
+
you can think of idol as her hobby + think of her celebrity name power ( fake Lacus used) same as princess Diana(real life)
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Old 2013-05-31, 17:51   Link #7365
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Lacus was basically Siegal's political heir. He schooled her extensively and his support group was as loyal to her as they were to him when he died. We don't see this of course
Aren't Chairman of the plant elected? Just because he's grooming her to be chairman doesn't mean shes a shoe in. besides Shouldn't there be Age restrictions to become a chairman (but at the end of Destiny my guess is no not a bit) after all you are the leader of a gosh darn country thingy. you should have real experience as well as smarts. the little time Lacus was "Real Lacus" is enough time to see if she has the resolve to be a country leader.

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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Pop star was a poor choice, I assume so Rie Tanaka could sing for the show but she wasn't a pop star in the way Meer was. She sang a few sad ballads, made some records and basically otherwise sang for charity and stuff. She was mostly retired by the time Seed started except for peace events and stuff. She's not Britney Spears in the eyes of Plant, she's like...Frank Sinatra, Elton John or some other singer that's actually well respected my the masses and if they started talking politics people might consider their words.
Alright i'll give you this one

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And her ditzy act was just that, an act. If you didn't notice by how she kept breaking out of her room and tee heeing it off, she was simply acting naive and harmless so the "enemy" wouldn't think she was a threat and she could assess the Earth Forces without being treated like an enemy soldier. Her "real" self came out when she ordered Rau off.
never saw it that way. she was a ditzy girl till Rau showed up to blow up the AA. Lacus never ran around the AA looking at its battle strength, all she did was get Flay railed up and make the crew nervous. She wasn't considered an "enemy solider" (she wasn't even a solider) at all by any of the crew, only Natarle Badgiruel saw her as a barging chip. It seemed like the writer pulled this "real Lacus" out of their ass to stop Rau from blowing up the AA. There wasn't any scenes that showed "real Lacus" before even after, for a little while, that same commanding personality. not till the end of Seed at least.
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Old 2013-05-31, 18:20   Link #7366
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I can accept that they had meant to portray Lacus' ditzy persona as a cover to who she really is, but fact of the matter is they blundered doing so, and a good number of people see it as an ass-pull. They could've portrayed it better, and failed.
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Old 2013-05-31, 18:29   Link #7367
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
never saw it that way. she was a ditzy girl till Rau showed up to blow up the AA. Lacus never ran around the AA looking at its battle strength, all she did was get Flay railed up and make the crew nervous. She wasn't considered an "enemy solider" (she wasn't even a solider) at all by any of the crew, only Natarle Badgiruel saw her as a barging chip. It seemed like the writer pulled this "real Lacus" out of their ass to stop Rau from blowing up the AA.
She didn't need to run around the AA looking at its battle strength because that was not her goal to begin with.

And just as well, had she acted her real self, she would convince the rest of the AA crew, not just Natarle, that she is quite valuable as a bargaining chip.

Her act was really that, an act. A fact affirmed by official materials and even Dilly would comment in the 2nd season.

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There wasn't any scenes that showed "real Lacus" before even after, for a little while, that same commanding personality. not till the end of Seed at least.
She not only fooled the AA crew, but she used the same facade to fool ZAFT personnel as well, prior to handing the Freedom to Kira.

As the war progressed, Lacus was very active in providing a voice against it, leading to her direct confrontation with Athuran later.

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I can accept that they had meant to portray Lacus' ditzy persona as a cover to who she really is, but fact of the matter is they blundered doing so, and a good number of people see it as an ass-pull. They could've portrayed it better, and failed.
I was actually pleasantly surprised. My initial impression of her was not a good one. When she came floating into the hanger bays of the AA, I thought to myself, agh, not another one...

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Old 2013-05-31, 18:36   Link #7368
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but she used the same facade to fool ZAFT personnel as well, prior to handing the Freedom to Kira.
To this day i still don't get how she got past the Security guys to get Kira to the Freedom, By this time in the show ZAFT is ruled by Patrick Zala and Its pretty obvious he doesn't want Lacus just roaming about. i know Lacus had inside help but the entire staff of where the Freedom was stored i doubt that.

Whatever Lacus was supposed to be really doesn't matter, the writers failed to write it out well enough. I was never in the gray what/who Cagalli was, their stories and backgrounds are quite similar there are some differences but for the most part they're pretty similar
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Old 2013-05-31, 18:43   Link #7369
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I was actually pleasantly surprised. My initial impression of her was not a good one. When she came floating into the hanger bays of the AA, I thought to myself, agh, not another one...

- Tak
Yeah, what I meant was that they failed in portraying her ditzy personality as a facade. You only get the one tiny hint that also comes off as the righteous anger of a good person being betrayed by her own allies, and not necessarily that of a "commanding" personality--just an angry peace representative.

And then all her other appearances came off as wildly different without any real build-up. I understand what they went for, I just see it as a failure in what they tried to accomplish. A few scenes more across a couple other episodes could've done wonders for this, but instead, we got clip shows.

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To this day i still don't get how she got past the Security guys to get Kira to the Freedom, By this time in the show ZAFT is ruled by Patrick Zala and Its pretty obvious he doesn't want Lacus just roaming about. i know Lacus had inside help but the entire staff of where the Freedom was stored i doubt that.
To be fair, the Clyne family wasn't public enemy number 1 at that time; it was in fact this act that triggered that made it look like the Clyne family was committing treason. Still doesn't make any sense as to why she was bloody allowed in the facility and around the TOP SECRET POTENTIAL WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION, though. Even the looser military structure of ZAFT can't explain that total fuckup of a breach of protocol.
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Old 2013-05-31, 18:44   Link #7370
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Patrick Zala and Its pretty obvious he doesn't want Lacus just roaming about. i know Lacus had inside help but the entire staff of where the Freedom was stored i doubt that.
We actually don't know this. If Lacus' commands to Rau served as an indication, it meant she still held influences in PLANT politics. If she was not permitted to roam about, she would have been escorted out of the hangers where the Freedom was held the moment she sat foot in there.

But she wasn't. So one of two things is possible, either she still had influence, or she had inside help. Or maybe both.

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Whatever Lacus was supposed to be really doesn't matter, the writers failed to write it out well enough.
Then I guess you and I share different perspectives.

When she pulled Queen Lacus, I was actually cheering for her.

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Yeah, what I meant was that they failed in portraying her ditzy personality as a facade.
While my initial impression of Lacus was less than positive, some part of me at the time was waiting for the wham. Her conversation with Kira pretty much implied that she had more to offer than my initial impression, and thankfully, my initial impression was proven invalid.

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Old 2013-05-31, 18:47   Link #7371
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It wasn't the different personality that bothered most people about Lacus. Just the transition to that personality, or rather the lack of it, that bothered people. That's where the failure came into play. That so many people see it shows that they didn't do a great job at portraying it.
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Old 2013-05-31, 18:50   Link #7372
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It wasn't the different personality that bothered most people about Lacus. Just the transition to that personality, or rather the lack of it, that bothered people. That's where the failure came into play. That so many people see it shows that they didn't do a great job at portraying it.
Well, tbh, it never bothered me... I thought it flowed quite nicely.

Actually, this is the first time where I've seen a discussion about transition of her character.

Back in 2006 onwards, when we discussed Lacus, the argument centered on her being Mary Sue, but beyond that, pretty much nobody ever questioned her transition.

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Even the looser military structure of ZAFT can't explain that total fuckup of a breach of protocol.
With the exception to Legend of the Galactic Heroes & Zipang, I've yet seen an anime where proper military protocol is ever abided.

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Old 2013-05-31, 18:57   Link #7373
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That's cause there wasn't any transition and back then there was a lot more to consider about the show--now, we're in a rerun, and we notice different things because we already know how things play out. In one scene focus she got, she was an airhead. The next, she was all doting nurse, but still an airhead ("don't you wish we could stay like this FOREVER" "bitch you're high"), then next we saw her, she's all GUERRILLA PEACE SPOKESMAN PRINCESS and taking over ships and shit.

We don't see her initial reaction to having to go into hiding, whatever her reaction was to Zala's descent into madness... all we got is her being herded out of a room from a radio, and also her quite stupidly and dangerously waiting on Athrun in a bombed out building wearing the one kind of outfit someone in her situation really shouldn't bloody be wearing. All we needed was a few scenes to change that, and her change in personality would've looked better. We could've seen her grow into the position. Instead we got what came off to many as a blatant and jarring personality change.
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Old 2013-05-31, 19:06   Link #7374
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In one scene focus she got, she was an airhead. The next, she was all doting nurse, but still an airhead
I always read that as her attempt to test Kira's character. Knight in shining armor certainly did not disappoint...

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We don't see her initial reaction to having to go into hiding, whatever her reaction was to Zala's descent into madness... all we got is her being herded out of a room from a radio, and also her quite stupidly and dangerously waiting on Athrun in a bombed out building wearing the one kind of outfit someone in her situation really shouldn't bloody be wearing.
To be fair, she intended to put on a show for Athrun and had backup. Make no mistake, I think she was most certainly taking a risk, but who doesn't take risks, especially when the stakes are high? And it was well worth it, for it help recruit Atty to her side.

- Tak
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Old 2013-05-31, 19:10   Link #7375
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She still could've chosen to wore something that give her more mobility than that dress, in case something goes wrong. Her taking the risk at the building to meet with him I understand. The dress, however, was just a fucking stupid choice and to me it seemed it was just to show off more of her implausible wardrobe. Why would she even have something like that if she's on the run? Given the state of the building I can't imagine it'd be in that good a condition if it was left at the building in the first place.
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Old 2013-05-31, 19:18   Link #7376
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I would agree with you that her choice of attire was perhaps, impractical. At the same time, I recognize that this is Gundam, which built itself on the rule of cool Its something I tend to overlook. The same way I overlook the Hawke sisters' wardrobe choice

I mean, her wardrobe's lack of practicality is really nothing compared to the titular war-machines in the series.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2013-05-31 at 19:39.
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Old 2013-05-31, 19:30   Link #7377
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
To this day i still don't get how she got past the Security guys to get Kira to the Freedom, By this time in the show ZAFT is ruled by Patrick Zala and Its pretty obvious he doesn't want Lacus just roaming about. i know Lacus had inside help but the entire staff of where the Freedom was stored i doubt that.
Its quite obvious all the guards were Lacus fanboys XD

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thats not my point. i'm just saying why is everyone agreeing with her? never in a million year that every single person in a really large group 100% agree with each other. why aren't there some, even a really tiny part of the people say, they need to kill the naturals for revenge or something. That's what i don't get and at this rate i never will.
But you dont KNOW EVERYONE agreed with her, of course the only people WE saw were just some of the general public agreeing, not the whole nation. Of course there are people who are opposed to her and are more aligned with views similar to Patrick Zala's who would welcome the war as another chance to wipe out the Naturals

Your view that EVERYONE supports her is a generalization based on what we saw, and of course the writers meant it to be that way to show that she had the popular support, and to further justify Durandal's play with using a fake Lacus

Dont think too much about it, DESTINY was so badly written that thinking too deep give headaches :P
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Old 2013-05-31, 19:42   Link #7378
Tak
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Dont think too much about it, DESTINY was so badly written that thinking too deep give headaches :P
Exactly. DESTINY gave us more questions than answers. Though a movie is promised to bring the SEED saga to a conclusion, I am not entirely sure if I want to see it. Perhaps I should be thankful Final Plus ended the way it did...

- Tak
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Old 2013-05-31, 19:43   Link #7379
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Aren't Chairman of the plant elected? Just because he's grooming her to be chairman doesn't mean shes a shoe in. besides Shouldn't there be Age restrictions to become a chairman (but at the end of Destiny my guess is no not a bit) after all you are the leader of a gosh darn country thingy. you should have real experience as well as smarts. the little time Lacus was "Real Lacus" is enough time to see if she has the resolve to be a country leader.
He wasn't necesserily grooming her to be chairman. Just to lead the Clyne loyalists that wanted peace if he ever died. She didn't need to be chairman to do that. Siegal was still running it before he died even though he'd been already voted out of office.

He was just setting her up so that he'd have an heir to his faction he trusted to share his views. Everyone on the Zaft side of the Clyne Faction in both shows, that was all set up by Siegal. And because he raised her as such, they were just as loyal to her after he died.

Much like Uzumi, Siegal correctly read the political landscape and realized they'd be dealing with potential genocide and made steps to fight against it.
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Old 2013-05-31, 20:03   Link #7380
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thats not my point. i'm just saying why is everyone agreeing with her?
Because Meer is assuring the people that they will get what they want: That the government will fight for them.
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