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Old 2013-06-01, 14:25   Link #7401
Aquaman OS
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Well Authority is usually evil in Gundam......

Actually authority is usually evil in alot of fiction....
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Old 2013-06-01, 14:27   Link #7402
monster
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Well Authority is usually evil in Gundam......

Actually authority is usually evil in alot of fiction....
Yeah, but that doesn't mean they're outwardly evil.
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Old 2013-06-01, 14:28   Link #7403
Skye629
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I dont think Shinn doubting the Destiny plan is anything special

I cant blame anyone for having doubts about the Destiny plan, if anyone proposed a plan of such a scale and control it would seem absolutely absurd, even if you agree with the logic behind it
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Old 2013-06-01, 14:30   Link #7404
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I don't think it's anything special either, but it does show that he thought about it.
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Old 2013-06-01, 14:50   Link #7405
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Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Shinn did have doubts about the plan and wasn't even thinking straight in the last battle because of those doubts. Shinn only agreed to it because Durandal isolated him and only Rey was there to spur him on. Had Shinn refused he could have quietly been killed and no one would ever know what happened to him. Had Lunamaria been there with him he may have at least had another voice that wasn't Rey's and Durandal's in his head.

Course I would rather he defects earlier just as the Destiny Plan, and how Durandal would accomplish it was revealed. Even better if he learns of that as he and Lunamaria are fighting Athrun than have Athrun push them to defect because of how insane Durandal is.
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Old 2013-06-01, 15:14   Link #7406
monster
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Shinn has no reason to trust a traitor who was always on his case.
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Old 2013-06-01, 20:42   Link #7407
The American Average
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Ya know i'm kinda hopeful that this HD Remaster series will fix Shinn somewhat by the end make him less of a drone lackey to Durandal. I doubt it'll happen though
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Old 2013-06-01, 22:37   Link #7408
I Fail at Life
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Ya know i'm kinda hopeful that this HD Remaster series will fix Shinn somewhat by the end make him less of a drone lackey to Durandal. I doubt it'll happen though
Key word: Remaster. And the fact that they don't really care about Shinn all like that or has DESTINY not showed us anyhing. The best they might do is give one of his suits new animation.

But this is a different beast compared to SEED, so I don't know where their priorities lie.
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Old 2013-06-01, 23:35   Link #7409
monster
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Ya know i'm kinda hopeful that this HD Remaster series will fix Shinn somewhat by the end make him less of a drone lackey to Durandal. I doubt it'll happen though
They don't need to. As I said, Shinn was not a "drone lackey" to Durandal.
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Old 2013-06-01, 23:48   Link #7410
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Originally Posted by I Fail at Life View Post
Key word: Remaster. And the fact that they don't really care about Shinn all like that or has DESTINY not showed us anyhing. The best they might do is give one of his suits new animation. But this is a different beast compared to SEED, so I don't know where their priorities lie.
Going to have to agree with you so far with the HD part, they just given us little changes like MS edits and face touch ups. what i'm hoping for will probably not happen they said there would be new dialog but i'd bet nothing that'll change much

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They don't need to. As I said, Shinn was not a "drone lackey" to Durandal.
Of course he isn't a "drone lackey" to Durandal when you look at it through a magnifying glass. if you just look at it from far away he looked like a poorly written bad guy, he just goes from angry fool swing a sword around to all hail Sith Lord Durandal.
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Old 2013-06-02, 00:37   Link #7411
monster
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if you just look at it from far away he looked like a poorly written bad guy, he just goes from angry fool swing a sword around to all hail Sith Lord Durandal.
Maybe that's the problem. You're supposed to look at it from a standard viewing distance, not from far away.

If you had looked at it from the proper distance, then you'd know that Shin was swinging his sword angrily out of his own issue, not because he's hailing Durandal as some lord, Sith or otherwise.
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Old 2013-06-02, 00:53   Link #7412
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Maybe that's the problem. You're supposed to look at it from a standard viewing distance, not from far away.

If you had looked at it from the proper distance, then you'd know that Shin was swinging his sword angrily out of his own issue, not because he's hailing Durandal as some lord, Sith or otherwise.
where then do you watch it?

A lot of people seem too super over analyze the Hell out of Destiny. I really doubt the writers put this much depth in their characters like we seem to think they did. Destiny anime could barely keep up with deadlines little alone to expand character development .

Now look at Shinn from a casual anime/movie watcher, Shinn went from angry teen with sister issues to blindly following Rey and Durandal with whatever plan they had. Kill athrun he enemy now, 'Kay. Destiny plan, 'Kay; what could go wrong with that plan.
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Old 2013-06-02, 01:23   Link #7413
monster
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where then do you watch it?

A lot of people seem too super over analyze the Hell out of Destiny. I really doubt the writers put this much depth in their characters like we seem to think they did. Destiny anime could barely keep up with deadlines little alone to expand character development.
Overanalyzing? Hardly. A lot of people just seem content in thinking Destiny is bad and shutting their brain off to anything that doesn't support that view.
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Now look at Shinn from a casual anime/movie watcher, Shinn went from angry teen with sister issues to blindly following Rey and Durandal with whatever plan they had. Kill athrun he enemy now, 'Kay. Destiny plan, 'Kay; what could go wrong with that plan.
What was Shinn supposed to do in those situations? Athrun never could give a straight answer as to why he's deserting, stealing the Gouf, and "kidnapping" Meyrin. And Shinn actually thought about the Destiny Plan. They actually had a scene where Shinn finally decides to go with the Plan. He didn't just follow it from the beginning. So, no, he didn't just blindly follow Rey and Durandal, not that it was hard to do.

And seriously, what's a casual anime/movie watcher when you're talking about a 50-episode series?
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Old 2013-06-02, 01:39   Link #7414
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Overanalyzing? Hardly. A lot of people just seem content in thinking Destiny is bad and shutting their brain off to anything that doesn't support that view.
Oh yes people over analyze this show so much its funny.

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What was Shinn supposed to do in those situations? Athrun never could give a straight answer as to why he's deserting, stealing the Gouf, and "kidnapping" Meyrin.
If Rey wasn't there Shinn would have just brought back Athrun or maybe would have gone with him. Since Rey was there Shinn just listened to Rey and did not hear Athrun out.

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And Shinn actually thought about the Destiny Plan. They actually had a scene where Shinn finally decides to go with the Plan. He didn't just follow it from the beginning. So, no, he didn't just blindly follow Rey and Durandal, not that it was hard to do.
I really don't remember Shinn giving it a lot of thought, wasn't he put on the spot by Durandal in the Sith chamber room with Rey? no pressure Shinn

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And seriously, what's a casual anime/movie watcher when you're talking about a 50-episode series?
Gundam can be very good starting point for Casuals then they can go watch more advanced/mature Mecha stories. also look at DBZ, Naturo, Bleach etc. they're well over 50 ep amount of episodes means nothing
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Old 2013-06-02, 02:00   Link #7415
monster
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Oh yes people over analyze this show so much its funny.
Unfortunately, it's not funny when people accuse other people of overanalyzing for pointing out something that should be obvious.
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If Rey wasn't there Shinn would have just brought back Athrun or maybe would have gone with him. Since Rey was there Shinn just listened to Rey and did not hear Athrun out.
No, because Athrun wasn't going to go back whether Rey was there or not.
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I really don't remember Shinn giving it a lot of thought, wasn't he put on the spot by Durandal in the Sith chamber room with Rey? no pressure Shinn
Shinn pointed out to Rey that moving the Destiny Plan too quickly could be bad. And he did thought about the Plan in that Messiah scene.
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Gundam can be very good starting point for Casuals then they can go watch more advanced/mature Mecha stories.
Unfortunately, it's that kind of attitude that can make it difficult to understand certain things in Gundam.
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Old 2013-06-02, 02:11   Link #7416
The American Average
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Unfortunately, it's not funny when people accuse other people of overanalyzing for pointing out something that should be obvious.
Nothing in Destiny is obvious its so all over the place because of how it was written. you can look at all the points in the plot and look at them with a magnifying glass and look here i found what they meant, nope there was nothing ever there just a starwars/turn a reference.

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No, because Athrun wasn't going to go back whether Rey was there or not.
Then Shinn would have least gotten Meyrin back and somewhat understood where Athrun was coming from. Shinn may not agreed with Athrun but they could have at least left on better terms resulting in Shinn not being a totally raging emo idiot.

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Shinn pointed out to Rey that moving the Destiny Plan too quickly could be bad. And he did thought about the Plan in that Messiah scene.
oh yeah i remember that scene now, but wasn't it in that part of the series that just everybody thought the Desitny plan Durandal came up with wasn't an all or nothing Deal?

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Unfortunately, it's that kind of attitude that can make it difficult to understand certain things in Gundam.
What? i really don't get your point here. if you go down to the bare bones of gundam its just a toy commercial.
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Old 2013-06-02, 02:46   Link #7417
monster
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Nothing in Destiny is obvious its so all over the place because of how it was written. you can look at all the points in the plot and look at them with a magnifying glass and look here i found what they meant, nope there was nothing ever there just a starwars/turn a reference.

Then Shinn would have least gotten Meyrin back and somewhat understood where Athrun was coming from. Shinn may not agreed with Athrun but they could have at least left on better terms resulting in Shinn not being a totally raging emo idiot.
You're ignoring the fact that Shinn made his decision after he's heard what both Athrun and Rey had to say. As far as Shinn knows, Athrun could be a spy. There's no reason to let his guard down for Meyrin.

See, that's an example of something that's obvious in Destiny that, for some reason, you choose not to see.
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oh yeah i remember that scene now, but wasn't it in that part of the series that just everybody thought the Desitny plan Durandal came up with wasn't an all or nothing Deal?
No, that was never apparent to everybody.
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What? i really don't get your point here. if you go down to the bare bones of gundam its just a toy commercial.
That's no excuse for ignoring what's in the show.

Also, if you strip anything to the bare bones, you'll just get the bones, but, you'll be missing the meat. The full entertainment value is in the whole package.
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Old 2013-06-02, 02:59   Link #7418
The American Average
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You're ignoring the fact that Shinn made his decision after he's heard what both Athrun and Rey had to say. As far as Shinn knows, Athrun could be a spy. There's no reason to let his guard down for Meyrin.
Rey i believe all he said was "Athrun Traitor kill him". Athrun all he said was "Durandal is going to destroy the world but i'm not going to go into the details about it.". Also Athrun did say Meyrin had nothing to do with this and Rey said other wise. Shinn could have easily gotten Meyrin back took her back. that whole scene was pooly executed. If Athrun died there then something really interesting could have come from it. a really reason for Kira to fight Shinn perhaps

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See, that's an example of something that's obvious in Destiny that, for some reason, you choose not to see. No, that was never apparent to everybody. That's no excuse for ignoring what's in the show.
Destiny Obvious? come on, no one knows what the hell's going on in Destiny, the Character in the show as well as the writers. How can i ignore something in the show that is completely missing? and that's where people go in and over analyze everything.

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Also, if you strip anything to the bare bones, you'll just get the bones, but, you'll be missing the meat. The full entertainment value is in the whole package.
I really don't get what you're saying here... again
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Old 2013-06-02, 03:08   Link #7419
monster
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Rey i believe all he said was "Athrun Traitor kill him". Athrun all he said was "Durandal is going to destroy the world but i'm going to go into the details about it.". Also Athrun did say Meyrin had nothing to do with this and Rey said other wise. Shinn could have easily gotten Meyrin back took her back.
And why should Shinn trust Athrun over Rey? With all they've been through, and Athrun showing displeasure over Shinn destroying the Freedom, a ZAFT enemy, Shinn would truly be a mindless drone if he had listened to Athrun.
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Destiny Obvious? come on, no one knows what the hell's going on in Destiny, the Character in the show as well as the writers. How can i ignore something in the show that is completely missing? and that's where people go in and over analyze everything.
It's obvious that Shinn only decided to attack after he's heard both Athrun and Rey.

It's not missing, it's in the episode: Phase 37. Watch it again, please.
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I really don't get what you're saying here... again
Then why start with the metaphor if you're not going to be able to keep up?

Yes, Gundam is a toy commercial, but it's also a TV series. If you're going to discuss the show, don't ignore what happens in the TV series just because it's a toy commercial.
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Old 2013-06-02, 03:26   Link #7420
The American Average
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And why should Shinn trusts Athrun over Rey? With all they've been through, and Athrun showing displeasure over Shinn destroying the Freedom, a ZAFT enemy, Shinn would truly be a mindless drone if he had listened to Athrun.
Shinn Knows Athrun is an A-hole to him but a traitor come on. Shinn knows Athrun knew the pilot of the Freedom i'm betting he could understand the pain of losing someone (Stella) Besides Arthun went with and through what Rey did with Shinn too. Shinn knew Athrun wasn't a bad guy he was just confused, If Rey wasn't there or would have shut up long enough for Athrun to make his point things could have been different.

What about Meyrin just because Athrun may be a traitor she deserves to die? Shinn Definitely should know more about Meyrin than Athrun anyway after all Meyrin is Luna's sister, they went the ZAFT Academy together as well, i'd assume they'd talk to each other in down time when nothing was happening.


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It's obvious that Shinn only decided to attack after he's heard both Athrun and Rey. It's not missing, it's in the episode: Phase 37. Watch it again please.
You seem to be taking my comments out of contexts with this one, one or two episodes that are obvious don't change the fact that the other episodes do not make sense and aren't obvious.

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Then why start with the metaphor if you're not going to be able to keep up? Yes, Gundam is a toy commercial, but it's also a TV series. If you're going to discuss the show, don't ignore what happens in the TV series just because it's a toy commercial.
My original point is Gundams should be easy to follow plots and are fun to watch hence anyone can watch them. I never had trouble watching Zeta, 00, or Wing and there Gundam those shows have inconsistencies in them to but they didn't break the show like Destiny. (well 00 season 2 is arguable but eh) Destiny at times hurt to watch because of how the characters acted and battles were, it wasn't just the reused animation. wing had it too it never bothers me.
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