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Old 2013-09-11, 11:59   Link #9221
Deadpool2000
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Yeah, Durandal sure is a shady silver-tongue manipulator, what with him giving a completely logical answer to Athrun's B-B-BUT THEY WERE MY F-F-FWIENDS whining and everything.
Completely logical? Durandal's answer was "Even Lacus agrees with me!"

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
And prior to Athrun ASSUMING this was the end and ASSUMING the MPs were out to straight up kill him on sight
When did Athrun assume they were trying to kill him on sight?

Why DID they fire at him?

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Where is Durandal doing any kind of framing or jumping on any kind of warped falsehood here?
The part where he says Athrun and Meyrin stole sensitive data. You realize that didn't happen, right?

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
The tone of the writing and the soundtrack (oh god the soundtrack) is trying REEEALLY hard to tell me Durandal is being sort kind of super-evil manipulative villain here, but all I see is a guy reacting in a relational way to one of his troops going nuts.
Oh those darn writers trying to trick you into thinking their villain is a villain. How DARE they?!?

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Why would they let Athrun's non-stop obsession
Non-stop? Obsession?

Wait, didn't Talia disagree with Operation Angel Down? Didn't she keep requesting an audience with Durandal over it?

Wasn't "make sure I don't do evil things" Durandal's sales pitch for making Athrun a FAITH member? How is disagreeing with Durandal suddenly a valid excuse?

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
with trying to justify the Archangel's terrorist attacks go completely unchecked?
What's with everyone post 9/11 trying to refer to people as terrorists? Do people even know what the word MEANS?

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
charging into battle attacking all sides so she can drive a tense situation further into warfare,
You think the war escalated further because the Archangel tried to stop Orb from attacking the Minerva?

I'd LOVE to see this line of logic...
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Old 2013-09-11, 14:19   Link #9222
Aquaman OS
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There's no real coincidental anything about it when only Durandal his few secret supporters, and Lacus's own people are the only ones shown to know that Meer isn't Lacus. Djbril and Logos with all their influence didn't know, and Yzak and Dearka who knew the real Lacus personally, couldn't tell from the tv broadcasts alone.

Which means Djbril, Yuna, and the Junius 7 guys are out because if they really wanted Lacus dead, they'd be attacking Meer. And even if they somehow did know, they'd take her alive to expose Durandal as lying to the world. Not secretly trying to kill her and leave no evidence or trace of her death.

In fact that last part is what seals it, because only someone who would want to have his own Lacus unable to be exposed would want her secretly killed. If they knew Meer wasn't Lacus they want to expose her, not kill her. If they didn't know, they'd be attacking Meer. And if they somehow didn't know about Meer, they'd want her death publically known.

The only other option is someone who wanted the real Lacus dead, but didn't want to expose Durandal. And of the groups known in the show, Astray, and all background material, nobody fits that description.

Meanwhile Durandal in his own private thoughts makes it clear he hates Lacus and Kira, and has hated them since Seed. And in Astray was shown goading Canard into going after Kira.

That's not even counting the fact that Durandal is shown to be extremely dishonest with everyone, considering him using Meer to get Lacus supporters to back his personal agenda, editing the Berlin footage to make it look like Zaft singlehandedly saved the day, witholding the info on Logos and letting the war drag on until it was the best moment to use it to push his own agenda, going back on his deal with Athrun jamming Orb's broadcasts so they couldn't explain themselves, denouncing the use of Requiem but then taking for himself and building his own Genesis to go with it. The list goes on.

As far as Lacus masterminding the whole thing for her takeover. Well that's rather unnecessery because she could have just taken over after Seed if she really wanted to. The fact that she didn't, and still doesn't really seem to want to in Destiny even, kind of throws that theory out the window.
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Old 2013-09-11, 15:54   Link #9223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadpool2000 View Post
Completely logical? Durandal's answer was "Even Lacus agrees with me!"
I like the part where you ignore how Durandal asked perfectly valid questions about why the Archangel shot at them first, and never tried to contact ZAFT in any kind of sane way, and pissed all over Talia's offer to peacefully surrender. All of which Athrun had no response for aside from "B-B-BUT THEY HAD THEIR REASONS."

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Originally Posted by Deadpool2000 View Post
When did Athrun assume they were trying to kill him on sight?

Why DID they fire at him?
Because he refused their requests to open the door, jumped out a goddamn window, and physically assaulted them first?

How dare those evil ZAFT MPs. It's entirely their fault for escalating a situation that Athrun created.

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Originally Posted by Deadpool2000 View Post
What's with everyone post 9/11 trying to refer to people as terrorists? Do people even know what the word MEANS?
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.


Gee, now let's see. Acting as a separate entity not recognized by any government? Attacking both sides unprovoked in an attempt to usurp the Orb government in favor of Cagalli? Publicly announcing "GUYS DO WHAT WE SAY OR WE'LL KEEP DOING THIS" in an attempt to get their way?

So are you trying to tell me the Archangel crew are special little snowflakes because they have THEIR REAZONZ and this definition can't be applied to them?

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Originally Posted by Deadpool2000 View Post
Oh those darn writers trying to trick you into thinking their villain is a villain. How DARE they?!?
It's more like those darn writers trying to trick you into thinking a morally ambiguous dude is randomly a pure evil villain with no sympathy whatsoever, and having him act wildly out of character for no other reason than to make the ever-popular Kira and Lacus look infallible by default.

This show has won me over. It intrigues and compels me with its ability to force feed me what I should think when its message is fundamentally at odds with what's happening on screen. Not a trainwreck in the slightest.

But other than that, you're right. It's crap.

Last edited by Hagoshod; 2013-09-11 at 16:19.
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Old 2013-09-11, 16:03   Link #9224
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
I like the part where you ignore how Durandal asked perfectly valid questions about why the Archangel shot at them first,
The Archangel shot at them first because they were about to fire on an Orb ship just as the Archangel arrived.
Quote:
and never tried to contact ZAFT in any kind of sane way,
They have no business with ZAFT. The Archangel was more concerned about Orb.
Quote:
and pissed all over Talia's offer to peacefully surrender.
They had no reason to surrender.
Quote:
All of which Athrun had no response for aside from "B-B-BUT THEY HAD THEIR REASONS."
Eh, that's Athrun.
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Old 2013-09-11, 16:20   Link #9225
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
They have no business with ZAFT.
Oh, okay.

Then we're right back to square one: Why did they shoot at ZAFT?
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Old 2013-09-11, 16:42   Link #9226
monster
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Oh, okay.

Then we're right back to square one: Why did they shoot at ZAFT?
As I said, because of Orb.
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Old 2013-09-11, 17:50   Link #9227
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@Hagoshod: There are hundreds of things in Destiny that you can bitch about, and yet you decided to bitch about the things that actually kind of made sense?
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Old 2013-09-11, 18:04   Link #9228
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
@Hagoshod: There are hundreds of things in Destiny that you can bitch about, and yet you decided to bitch about the things that actually kind of made sense?
Well when you've exhausted all of the topics that don't make sense...
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Old 2013-09-11, 18:07   Link #9229
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Well when you've exhausted all of the topics that don't make sense...
Impossible. There's always something in CE to bitch about.
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Old 2013-09-11, 18:10   Link #9230
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Impossible. There's always something in CE to bitch about.
But we ran out of things to bitch about that didn't make sense, so what does that leave us with?
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Old 2013-09-11, 18:19   Link #9231
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
But we ran out of things to bitch about that didn't make sense, so what does that leave us with?
Bitch about trying to make sense of the things that don't make sense?
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Old 2013-09-11, 21:03   Link #9232
monster
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Bitch about trying to make sense of the things that don't make sense?
Eh, what's the use of that? Some things might actually make sense to some people, and if you don't speak up, you might never hear a potentially sensible explanation.
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Old 2013-09-11, 21:07   Link #9233
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Bitch about trying to make sense of the things that don't make sense?
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Eh, what's the use of that? Some things might actually make sense to some people, and if you don't speak up, you might never hear a potentially sensible explanation.
We already tried that, remember? It was our recent discussion concerning the Destiny Gundam. It didn't make sense that it was designed like it was if it was made with Shinn's data, so we argued that it wasn't, in fact, designed solely with him in mind. We argued that it made more sense that it was a testbed that later had Shinn's data plugged in.

And certain others here lost their goddamn minds over the idea. So making sense of things that don't make sense? Been there, done that.
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Old 2013-09-12, 00:04   Link #9234
Deadpool2000
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
I like the part where you ignore how Durandal asked perfectly valid questions about why the Archangel shot at them first,
So did half of his coalition against Logos, right? I mean, he DID have EA forces.

Also, EVERYONE knows why they shot the Tanhausser. Talia figured out their intentions DURING the first battle, BEFORE filing her report.

And hey, if Logos is the true source of evil in the world (and Durandal says they are) and they're behind major goverments (and Durandal says they are) then wouldn't an independent, highly capable, unafilliated with any major government, known as the heroes of the last war who forewent government affiliations for the greater good and in the process saved the lives of every man, woman and child on both Earth AND the PLANTs be just about his BEST allies? Shouldn't he have called them and asked THEM for help, instead of shooting first and asking questions never?

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and never tried to contact ZAFT
What, is Durandal some spurned ex-girlfriend now? They didn't call me so they should die? You find this to be morally ambiguous?

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
and pissed all over Talia's offer to peacefully surrender.
Ramius respectfully declined. Just like DURANDAL refused the EA's offer to have the PLANTS peacefully surrender... Which is what STARTED this war, remember?

Also, the request for surrender came AFTER they'd been shot at for God knows how long. Right after the Archangel had saved all of their lives from Stella. Honestly, Ramius was being TOO nice.

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Because he refused their requests to open the door, jumped out a goddamn window, and physically assaulted them first?
Two things:

One, the conversation between Durandal and Rey after Rey convinces Durandal that Athrun will NOT be his pet mobile suit pilot, his exact words are:

"Ahhh, then I think we have a problem. We've established his guilt. Can I leave the rest to you?"

Note the screen focuses on the pictures of him talking to Kira.

So let's stop and pretend like the show doesn't make it CLEAR this is a set up.

Then three security guys come into his room, shoot his way in and get knocked out... Who told the REST of the soldiers these three got knocked out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.


Gee, now let's see. Acting as a separate entity not recognized by any government?
Doesn't fit in 1, 2 OR 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Attacking both sides unprovoked in an attempt to usurp the Orb government in favor of Cagalli?
Oh boy, where to start...

Cagalli can't usurp the Orb government: SHE IS THE HEAD OF STATE. It is literally impossible for her to usurp the Orb government BY DEFINITION.

She is TOTALLY within her rights, as Chief Representative to stop this fight.

Kira is an Orb citizen, escorting the Orb Chieft Representative. Stopping a Tanhausser firing is not an "unprovoked" attack. Orb fired on Cagalli BEFORE Kira fired on Orb, so ALSO not unprovoked.

Unprovoked attacks are NOT terrorrism. They don't fit 1, 2 OR 3.

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Publicly announcing "GUYS DO WHAT WE SAY OR WE'LL KEEP DOING THIS" in an attempt to get their way?
When did they do that?

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
So are you trying to tell me the Archangel crew are special little snowflakes because they have THEIR REAZONZ and this definition can't be applied to them?
I am saying that terrorrism is using fear to coerce a population to do something they want. Archangel never did that. They escorted the Orb Head of State into a battle so she could order them to stop fighting. And when that failed, they did their best to make her wishes come true with minimal death.

At NO point did they attempt to coerce ZAFT nor EA to do SHIT. They tried to stop Orb from getting into a war, and considering they had Orb's Chief Representative with them, they were WELL within their rights to do so.

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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
It's more like those darn writers trying to trick you into thinking a morally ambiguous dude is randomly a pure evil villain with no sympathy whatsoever, and having him act wildly out of character for no other reason than to make the ever-popular Kira and Lacus look infallible by default.
You realize he is a FICTIONAL character, right? He isn't secretly morally ambiguous and the show is propaganda against him, he is created BY the show. The same people who MADE him seem like a nice guy at first also made him seem like a douchebag later. It's not like there was a change in writers.

For the record, there are plenty of hints he's not on the up and up from the very beginning.
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Old 2013-09-12, 09:57   Link #9235
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
But we ran out of things to bitch about that didn't make sense, so what does that leave us with?
True that.. At this point this thread is like spoiled milk. You can still drink it, but it might give you diarrhea.
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Old 2013-09-12, 23:15   Link #9236
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Old 2013-09-13, 04:08   Link #9237
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
True that.. At this point this thread is like spoiled milk. You can still drink it, but it might give you diarrhea.
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Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post
Looks like Talia and Arthur here just witnessed someone drinking said spoiled milk and erm......seeing the "might" (referring to the image of the vid)


Funny, it seems I lost most of whatever interest in the Remaster I had for it to be "entertaining" in the meantime till the next show and Unicorn's finale. Just gonna watch the key parts from now on (seeing my precious Saviour trashed, Berlin, Angel Down, SF debut, Battle of Orb, Meer getting shot lol, and Final Battle/Ending)
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Old 2013-09-13, 19:30   Link #9238
The American Average
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Funny, it seems I lost most of whatever interest in the Remaster I had for it to be "entertaining" in the meantime till the next show and Unicorn's finale. Just gonna watch the key parts from now on (seeing my precious Saviour trashed, Berlin, Angel Down, SF debut, Battle of Orb, Meer getting shot lol, and Final Battle/Ending)
I'm with you on this, i was really hyped for the Destiny remaster, I kind of stopped caring after seeing such little change (new explosions of grunts, new poses for impulse etc). The only episodes i going to watch/look forward too are the Impulse vs Freedom, Destiny Launch, Angle Down op, Akatsuki Launch, and final battle.
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Old 2013-09-14, 03:15   Link #9239
Znozzy
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
But we ran out of things to bitch about that didn't make sense, so what does that leave us with?
WHY DOESN'T ANY CHARACTERS IN THE CE-VERSE HAVE NAILS? fucking hiraifaces. No nails too, this is all destinys fault.
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Old 2013-09-14, 03:29   Link #9240
The American Average
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the only show that i know of on the top of my head that has constant fingernails is Ed, Edd, and Eddy. =p
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