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Old 2013-11-15, 03:34   Link #9981
Aquaman OS
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It wasn't just special edition stuff added. A few things were reanimated (and the special edition kept the Freedom still having its rifle in a shot after Shinn destroyed it error, this finally corrected it so Freedom is holding its saber instead)

It also makes an amusing change. Initially Shinn's reflect a shot off the shield trick hit Freedom as it was bringing its rifle to bear, making it seem like Kira held his fire to check the minor damage on the shoulder allowing Shinn to approach head on without risking getting shot. Although he ended up taking major damage and needing to call a new flyer because he didn't have his shield to block Kira's counter attack.

Here though Kira has his saber out and seemingly isn't doing anything at that moment, instead of being about to shoot him, making the shield trick entirely worthless now as Shinn might as well just flown in anyway. Especially worthless considering that if Impulse couldn't repair itself, that error of trying to melee Kira without a shield would have cost him the fight.
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Old 2013-11-15, 10:43   Link #9982
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Why not? Like I said this battle was actually pretty well animated to start, so why waste money fixing what wasn't broken.

Plus they actually added a Tanhauser beam going from the Minerva into the big explosion wave, so that at least confirms the big explosion was the Tanhauser, and not Freedom going nuclear.

Impulse also now PS's down only after the explosion stops, so they were apparantly both hit by the explosion wave, and Freedom was torn apart because Kira killed the reactor and the PS with it. So there you go. That was what happened.
Indeed, no need to fix that fact that Kira have not used even half his weapon against Shin.
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Old 2013-11-15, 20:12   Link #9983
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Considering that Shin needs to get new replacement part after another, can it really be called Shin's victory if he needed x # of parts to defeat the freedom?
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Old 2013-11-15, 20:14   Link #9984
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Yes.

All's fair in love and war. If you absolutely want to win, don't fight honorably. Fight dirty. Shinn took advantage of Kira's hesitance and limitations as well as his machine's capabilities. While Kira didn't go all out, it's still Shinn's win.
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Old 2013-11-15, 20:17   Link #9985
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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
Considering that Shin needs to get new replacement part after another, can it really be called Shin's victory if he needed x # of parts to defeat the freedom?
This is one of the reasons I feel the Impulse was specifically made to take out the freedom should the assassin's fail. Give it enough parts and it can just keep whittling down on the Freedom while Freedom can't. Then immediately afterwards Durandal graces him with an even more powerful machine that would've been a far better option in terms of power and speed to take on Kira and the Freedom.
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Old 2013-11-15, 20:32   Link #9986
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There are people who says that Kira VS Aegis in GS ended in Athrun's victory despite Athurn having no option but to self-destruct to defeat Kira(Though I consider that battle more of a draw).
If that counts as Athrun's win, then Kira VS Shinn in this episode is clearly Shinn's win since Impulse was still intact by the end of the battle.
Actually, the battle was very fair for Kira vs Shinn. Kira had Freedom which was the most powerful MS at that time. That's a disadvantage for Shinn, but he used the Impulse's pack to the fullest so it's definitely fair.
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Old 2013-11-15, 21:42   Link #9987
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Point taken... its power vs tenacity...
now that Athrun vs Kira was mentioned... their fight's a real death match is still far better than this one (Kira vs Shin)...

Last edited by NeutralZero; 2013-11-15 at 22:30.
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Old 2013-11-15, 22:25   Link #9988
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
They are very selective about those special edition scene usage.

Kinda annoying they didn't use the Lunamaria scene when she looks for Shinn instead used the regular Athrun version.

I see no reason why they couldn't have just used all the Special Edition scenes or none at all. None of this random mix and match stuff.
They couldn't do that, because Athrun is in all the follow-up scenes where Shinn says goodbye to Stellar and drives home with him.
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Old 2013-11-15, 22:35   Link #9989
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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
Point taken... its power vs tenacity...
now that Athrun vs Kira was mentioned... their fight's a real death match is still far better than this one (Kira vs Shin)...
I agree, plus, I think there are only two times when Kira actually snapped and wanted blood, when he fought Athrun and when he fought Le Creuset
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Old 2013-11-15, 22:37   Link #9990
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
It wasn't just special edition stuff added. A few things were reanimated (and the special edition kept the Freedom still having its rifle in a shot after Shinn destroyed it error, this finally corrected it so Freedom is holding its saber instead)

It also makes an amusing change. Initially Shinn's reflect a shot off the shield trick hit Freedom as it was bringing its rifle to bear, making it seem like Kira held his fire to check the minor damage on the shoulder allowing Shinn to approach head on without risking getting shot. Although he ended up taking major damage and needing to call a new flyer because he didn't have his shield to block Kira's counter attack.

Here though Kira has his saber out and seemingly isn't doing anything at that moment, instead of being about to shoot him, making the shield trick entirely worthless now as Shinn might as well just flown in anyway. Especially worthless considering that if Impulse couldn't repair itself, that error of trying to melee Kira without a shield would have cost him the fight.
It did cost him as the beam saber goes through the Impulse's head and part of it's body. This was in the TV version as well. I don't know why it was changed in the special edition movies. Kira could have just as easily stabbed Shin's cockpit where he was when Shin made that dash. Well, Shin won the bet that Kira wouldn't harm him directly, but that makes him look like the bad guy in this. Also, if only he didn't act like a dick in front of Athrun, he would have avoided that punch in the next episode.
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Old 2013-11-15, 22:51   Link #9991
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
According to that interview Kira and Lacus stayed from justice, Durandal was a sociopath with no faith in humanity, and had been planning for the Destiny Plan since before Seed even ended, Shinn was deluding himself that he was doing any good or protecting anyone and he was the one that needed to be protected, and Shinn was lost because he never met the one person who could set him on the right path (so obviously, Durandal wasn't "the right path"). It also said the Destiny Plan would never really work, as people given lesser jobs would always rebel against it.

Make sense of that. If that interview isn't incorrectly translated or just outright wrong (and it could be as I believe it also refutes other stuff Morosawa said, in an interview that turned out to be fake) then apparantly everyone was in the wrong in Destiny, and nobody was right.

And if the interview is partially right but they made mistakes translating, the interview is by far mostly anti Durandal and Shinn, with only one line saying Kira and Lacus were in the wrong, vs entire paragraphs for Durandal's side.

It also claims there was no rewrite, and Shinn was supposed to have been defeated in the end from the start. And to be honest there are hints that is true. Kira and Lacus were obviously supposed to be important from the start, as they are in the OP ED and preview of the show, and it was also well foreshadowed that Kira and Shinn would have problems with one another (them fighting in the first OP, and Freedom having an Excalibur through it in the first ED suggesting that episode 34 was in the plan from the start)

If you take the show at face value, obviously it thinks Kira and Lacus are in the right, as they get the heroic focus vs the evil music and shadowy dark throne room of Durandal (and to be honest the show made Durandal look like he was up to something from episode one). Bandai seems to agree with this, as most model kit manuals and official show sumarries are pro Kira side, and Astray revealed more information to vindicate Kira's side (like it looking like Durandal started the war in the first place)
Sorry for the late reply...

Astray, only animated works are official, everything else is non-official, etc.

And even then, Astray would have been, at best, secondary/gray canon.
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Old 2013-11-15, 22:53   Link #9992
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Originally Posted by n0m@n View Post
There are people who says that Kira VS Aegis in GS ended in Athrun's victory despite Athurn having no option but to self-destruct to defeat Kira(Though I consider that battle more of a draw).
If that counts as Athrun's win, then Kira VS Shinn in this episode is clearly Shinn's win since Impulse was still intact by the end of the battle.
Actually, the battle was very fair for Kira vs Shinn. Kira had Freedom which was the most powerful MS at that time. That's a disadvantage for Shinn, but he used the Impulse's pack to the fullest so it's definitely fair.
If Impulse couldn't get new fliers though, it would have been counted as "destroyed" in the aftermath though, since Shinn ruined another Chest and Leg flier. Otherwise it would have been like in Seed. With both Gundam's destroyed but only Shinn walking away from it as the apparant survivor, with Kira again needing rather miraculous circumstances to have ended up surviving.

Of course unlike losing against Athrun, where Kira lost a friend, was down for awhile, and ended up rethinking his entire view on practically the entire situation, here Kira's back on his feet in like a day, and aside from some minor sadness at being sidelined for a while and mourning the loss of an MS that had great sentimental value to him, Kira otherwise really thinks nothing of his defeat. If anything it just further solidifies his believe that Durandal is out to get them and they'll have to end up taking him down at some point. If anything Kira's defeat made Athrun rethink his situation instead.

Really though the odds were against Kira there. He and AA are all alone, while Shinn has Minerva and an entire Zaft squadron there for back up. Granted the Zaft grunts are no match for Kira, but it means Kira has effectively two jobs of having to look out for AA and defeat Shinn, while all Shinn has to worry about is taking down Kira. And with Durandal's recent display of media manipulation Kira's every action is being monitored closely so he and an AA have to check their actions carefully lest they be even further slandered and even have their links to Orb mean Orb could be blamed for their actions which is why AA can't destroy anything or launch anyone else to help Kira. Meanwhile Shinn and Minerva and the Zaft grunts are free to do whatever they want.

Kira might have had the power advantage personally, but the odds and situation heavily favored Zaft.
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Old 2013-11-15, 22:53   Link #9993
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Yes, Washu, we get it. You don't need to parrot it every time the sidestories come up.
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Old 2013-11-15, 22:56   Link #9994
Aquaman OS
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Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post
Astray, only animated works are official, everything else is non-official, etc.

And even then, Astray would have been, at best, secondary/gray canon.
Doesn't that only come up if they conflict? I mean there's quite a few things that explain stuff that was unclear in the show like Kira's survival. Otherwise Kira suvived the Aegis fight by magic, as opposed to the slightly more reasonable explaination of Lowe helping him.
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Old 2013-11-15, 23:40   Link #9995
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I thought Astray was canon, as the ReHome was actually shown in the anime at one point near the end of Seed
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Old 2013-11-15, 23:42   Link #9996
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I don't know why the Strike is referred to as destroyed after the fight with Athrun. Sure it needed repairs and a cockpit replacement, but it was very much intact still thanks to the phase shift armor protecting it from the Aegis's explosion.
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Old 2013-11-16, 00:00   Link #9997
Rising Dragon
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It likely suffered from severe internal damage from taking the shockwave released by the detonating Aegis, which would hamper or destroy some of its finer systems. Also, despite Astray's "emergency hatch" explanation for Kira's survival, the inside of the cockpit was slagged.
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Old 2013-11-16, 00:13   Link #9998
NeutralZero
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In the Strike vs Aegis bec. they blew up
in MS alone, we consider it as a draw
but in Kira vs Athrun side of the fight, its Athrun's victory... bec he blew Aegis along with the strike and made an escape...
without the MC of Astray, Kira's good as dead...
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Old 2013-11-16, 00:22   Link #9999
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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
Considering that Shin needs to get new replacement part after another, can it really be called Shin's victory if he needed x # of parts to defeat the freedom?
Game of Thrones put it nicely.

Lysa Arryn: "You don't fight with honor!"
Bronn: "No ... he did." *points to dead guy's direction*

So it's a victory for Shinn as at the end of the day he won their battle.
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Old 2013-11-16, 00:30   Link #10000
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It likely suffered from severe internal damage from taking the shockwave released by the detonating Aegis, which would hamper or destroy some of its finer systems. Also, despite Astray's "emergency hatch" explanation for Kira's survival, the inside of the cockpit was slagged.
Then why do we just say Freedom got severely damaged after getting torn apart by Providence's/Genesis's explosion( I honestly forgot the winner of that debate lol). Is it because Freedom had some distance where Strike was right next to Aegis?

I get the Strike was severely damaged after that, but I wouldn't call it destroyed.

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In the Strike vs Aegis bec. they blew up
in MS alone, we consider it as a draw
but in Kira vs Athrun side of the fight, its Athrun's victory... bec he blew Aegis along with the strike and made an escape...
without the MC of Astray, Kira's good as dead...
The Strike didn't blow up. It just got pushed against that cliff. If the Strike blew up, it would have been in pieces just like the Aegis was.
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