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Old 2013-11-29, 15:26   Link #10101
Aquaman OS
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That last charge wasn't one. That's the one that calls into question if Kira ever meant to kill Shinn at all at any point because Kira stabs him in the head rather than the cockpit.
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Old 2013-11-29, 16:19   Link #10102
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
That last charge wasn't one. That's the one that calls into question if Kira ever meant to kill Shinn at all at any point because Kira stabs him in the head rather than the cockpit.
Yeah, but the angle of the Impulse's charge very much makes it look like the blade goes through the head and the torso. Probably camera angle error on that last bit, though.
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Old 2013-12-04, 11:35   Link #10103
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Small question. What do you think is the series' theme? While the SEED appeared to focus on racism with all the Coordinators/Naturals conflict, Destiny seemed more focused on media with the Chairman gaining people's attention.
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Old 2013-12-04, 11:38   Link #10104
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Small question. What do you think is the series' theme? While the SEED appeared to focus on racism with all the Coordinators/Naturals conflict, Destiny seemed more focused on media with the Chairman gaining people's attention.
Social control
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Old 2013-12-04, 23:55   Link #10105
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Small question. What do you think is the series' theme? While the SEED appeared to focus on racism with all the Coordinators/Naturals conflict, Destiny seemed more focused on media with the Chairman gaining people's attention.
I've read somewhere that GSD was likely themed on post-9/11 America. Think of the parallels:
  • Durandal, Djibril, Copeland = George W. Bush
  • Junius Seven colony drop = possibly World Trade Center?
  • ZAFT's hunt for Djibril = US's hunt for Saddam (or Bin Laden)
  • Destiny Plan = Patriot Act
  • Pro-Durandal media = Fox News
  • Athrun's Infinite Justice was named after "Operation: Infinite Justice", the original code name for "Operation: Enduring Freedom"
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Old 2013-12-05, 02:57   Link #10106
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Small question. What do you think is the series' theme? While the SEED appeared to focus on racism with all the Coordinators/Naturals conflict, Destiny seemed more focused on media with the Chairman gaining people's attention.
Choice (or lack thereof) and its consequence
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Old 2013-12-05, 22:06   Link #10107
amaterasu4
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I've read somewhere that GSD was likely themed on post-9/11 America. Think of the parallels:

Durandal, Djibril, Copeland = George W. Bush
Junius Seven colony drop = possibly World Trade Center?
ZAFT's hunt for Djibril = US's hunt for Saddam (or Bin Laden)
Destiny Plan = Patriot Act
Pro-Durandal media = Fox News
Athrun's Infinite Justice was named after "Operation: Infinite Justice", the original code name for "Operation: Enduring Freedom"
That's kind of paranoic. It's like somebody made up that after playing Metal Gear Solid 2.

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Choice (or lack thereof) and its consequence.
I thought the title Destiny kind fit the show well. Durandal is controlling the destinies of his followers.
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Old 2013-12-07, 00:19   Link #10108
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Would any of you like a glass of tears courtesy of the YT commentators?

As for the Destiny Plan:

Destiny Plan = Patriot Act = Huxley's "Brave New World" = Hobbes' "The Leviathan". They do share a common theme of sacrificing individual's rights for more security.
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Old 2013-12-07, 02:06   Link #10109
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Still say Shinn was totally in the right for taking out Athrun based on what he knew.

Why is it that protagonist like Athrun, Lelouch, and Haruto completely blow at explaining their point at the most important moment? It's like they WANT to get screwed over by their former allies who have been lead to believe said protagonist betrayed them all?

Anyway, anyone check out the Astray stuff that came out this year?

Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny Astray B
Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny Astray R
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Old 2013-12-07, 02:18   Link #10110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post


Would any of you like a glass of tears courtesy of the YT commentators?

As for the Destiny Plan:

Destiny Plan = Patriot Act = Huxley's "Brave New World" = Hobbes' "The Leviathan". They do share a common theme of sacrificing individual's rights for more security.
Ah a glass of tears is as sweet as the finest wine, I'll take a glass

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Still say Shinn was totally in the right for taking out Athrun based on what he knew.

Why is it that protagonist like Athrun, Lelouch, and Haruto completely blow at explaining their point at the most important moment? It's like they WANT to get screwed over by their former allies who have been lead to believe said protagonist betrayed them all?
I agree with Athrun and Haruto, but Lelouch? Nah he just adapted and everything still played out in palm of his hand at the end (unless you are talking about him and Suzaku in R1 and the earlier parts of R2)
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Old 2013-12-07, 02:49   Link #10111
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Talking about when he let his brother steal the Black Knights from him. He even considered suicide. Guy really should have explained himself... Glad SRW Z2.2 gives you the option to let Lelouch do this.

-

Seems kinda reaching to equal Destiny Plan = Patriot Act.
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Old 2013-12-07, 02:51   Link #10112
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Washu has a habit of severely overthinking this show, where very little thought was put into it in the first place.
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Old 2013-12-07, 03:45   Link #10113
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Why is it that protagonist like Athrun, Lelouch, and Haruto completely blow at explaining their point at the most important moment? It's like they WANT to get screwed over by their former allies who have been lead to believe said protagonist betrayed them all?
Plot device combined with lazy writing.
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Old 2013-12-07, 03:51   Link #10114
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Why is it that protagonist like Athrun, Lelouch, and Haruto completely blow at explaining their point at the most important moment? It's like they WANT to get screwed over by their former allies who have been lead to believe said protagonist betrayed them all?
1.) Rey and Gil spent the past 5-10 minutes calmly and precisely destroying any credibility Athrun and Meyrin have, while also setting up the justification for shooting them down. They didn't tell any lies concerning the circumstances of their defection, which from the way they told it were pretty damning.

2.) Rey would not let Athrun get a word in. If he didn't interrupt over the com, he'd simply attack Athrun.

All thing's considered, Athrun didn't do that bad a job trying to get through to Shinn. I mean, what could he have said to Shinn? At this point, it's Athrun's word against their's. If he'd said "They tried to arrest me for no reason" what good would that have done? Shinn isn't going to let Athrun go, let alone fly off with him. He sure as hell isn't going to attack Rey.

Athrun's pretty well screwed at this point. All he could do was fight and try to show how manipulative Gil and Rey were, instill a little bit of doubt into the flowery language they liked to use. He couldn't really accuse them of anything specific, he had no evidence and even if he did, he had no opportunity to present it whatsoever.

P.S. You might think that Athrun might have been able to help his case by refusing to fight. Unfortunately, he wasn't on trial which he'd be able to walk away from. Nothing short of convincing Shin to fight Rey and defect with him would have saved Athrun at that point and there was just no way that was going to happen.
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Old 2013-12-07, 19:12   Link #10115
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Plot device combined with lazy writing.
Although I recognize that is a frequent situation in animes, with all respect, I have to disagree in what you have implied in that sentence.
I already consider "destiny has bad writing" as a mindless stock phrase.

In depicting convincing interpersonal relations and behaviors I believe the seed universe was more successful than most of the other gundam series.

In this regard, a "good" bad example is the zeta, but one moment in CCA takes the cake: Hathaway actions towards Chan Agi at the end of the movie.
I bet not even the best psychologistic in the world can find an a plausible reasoning for his actions

And that opens a plot hole, why wasn't he put into trial for his actions. Makes me wonder what excuse did he gave in the debriefing.
Unless in UC they don't care about recording communications or standard military procedures or even making a final evaluation after the operations.
But this is seed topic so I won't delve too much into that.
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Old 2013-12-07, 20:07   Link #10116
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Originally Posted by Arze View Post
Although I recognize that is a frequent situation in animes, with all respect, I have to disagree in what you have implied in that sentence.
I already consider "destiny has bad writing" as a mindless stock phrase.

In depicting convincing interpersonal relations and behaviors I believe the seed universe was more successful than most of the other gundam series.

In this regard, a "good" bad example is the zeta, but one moment in CCA takes the cake: Hathaway actions towards Chan Agi at the end of the movie.
I bet not even the best psychologistic in the world can find an a plausible reasoning for his actions

And that opens a plot hole, why wasn't he put into trial for his actions. Makes me wonder what excuse did he gave in the debriefing.
Unless in UC they don't care about recording communications or standard military procedures or even making a final evaluation after the operations.
But this is seed topic so I won't delve too much into that.
Hey, I agree with most of your points up there.

SEED is one of the better Gundam animated series/OVAs in terms of depicting natural character relations and behaviors (to me, the best is still Gundam 0080). Although the "love" between Shinn & Lunamaria felt really forced to me.

I also don't put UC series on a pedestal, especially those created by Tomino. And yes, Hathaway's action is a prime example of WTF-writing unless the script explain that he actually has a potential to turn psychotic. Then again, there's also some WTF-moments in Destiny too. One example being Talia went "I'll just leave my precious son motherless because I feel like to die with my boyfriend right now, lol" . Seriously?

And don't even talk about proper trial or militaristic procedure in stories written by Tomino. They don't even have a key or any other safety measures for most of their MSs. Anybody who managed to jump into the cockpit and know how to pilot it can steal it. Their hangar security is a joke too. At least Gundam X has a joystick-like key in order to access it.

Still, my comment that you quoted was a reply to Destined's question that involve a number of characters (not just from Gundams series) who generally blow at explaining their points at a crucial moment. So, I just gave my general answer without going into details.
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Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2013-12-07 at 20:21.
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Old 2013-12-08, 01:23   Link #10117
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Here's how I would fix Kira's perceived "Gary Stu-ness" among the fanbase:
  1. Kira needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine
  2. Whenever Kira's not onscreen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Kira"?

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Old 2013-12-08, 03:45   Link #10118
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Don't know about a time machine but being louder and angrier probably would make Kira more liked by the fanbase, if he yelled more and had a "cooler" personality than being a generic nice guy. If he were more like Shinn.

It's pretty much universal that people think Kira's best moments were his berserker moments or his raging against Rau in the finale of Seed.

Personally I find it rather sad that people prefer a brooding angry berserker over a pacifistic nicer person, but I guess that's why people prefer Batman over Superman, and Punisher over Spiderman too.
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Old 2013-12-08, 03:58   Link #10119
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If he were more like Shinn.
Please God, No!!!

As much as I dislike it, I'd take the so-called "Jesus Yamato" over "Shinn Yamato" .

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that's why people prefer Batman over Superman, and Punisher over Spiderman too.
People prefer Punisher over Spiderman?
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Old 2013-12-08, 04:01   Link #10120
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Considering what's been done to the Spiderman franchise lately, can anyone really blame them for preferring Punisher over Spiderman?
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