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Old 2008-03-20, 18:04   Link #1221
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
And I just thought about it, but it might not be that useful to have a living sample since Kira's DNA probably won't tell them anything about how the UC process works, just that he's a coordinator.
What we know of the ultimate coordinator process is that it extracts an embryo from the mother and implants it into an artificial womb. The Coordinator problem is one of fertility - usually this means that there's either a problem with the eggs or sperm of a population (usually it's the sperm), so the fertility crisis is probably one of insufficient numbers of viable zygotes in the first place. I would assume that in vitro fertilization isn't a workable option, so even having the ulimate coordinator technology apparently won't address the main issue.

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Originally Posted by ThoHell
It would be pretty painful to watch, but it would be kind of interesting, if Kira were to choose a side and fight against all those he loved: Cagalli, Lacus, etc. Like if some new nut case leader were to appear and was even able to deceive Lacus into his cause but not Kira and Kira had to end up fighting on the other side. OH...that was be painful, but it would be interesting!
It'd be even more interesting if Cagalli and Lacus had perfectly legitimate reasons to go up against one another.
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Old 2008-03-20, 18:32   Link #1222
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
It'd be even more interesting if Cagalli and Lacus had perfectly legitimate reasons to go up against one another.
Closest I can think of would involve the basic differences between ZAFT's security interests and Orb's interests as a major player/leader of the EA (which I think some model kit said happens post Destiny). That alone wouldn't be enough, but if ZAFT's security clashes with politics necessary to keep influence in the EA, and then two or more other things come up, THEN we MIGHT have something.
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Old 2008-03-20, 19:12   Link #1223
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Closest I can think of would involve the basic differences between ZAFT's security interests and Orb's interests as a major player/leader of the EA (which I think some model kit said happens post Destiny). That alone wouldn't be enough, but if ZAFT's security clashes with politics necessary to keep influence in the EA, and then two or more other things come up, THEN we MIGHT have something.
I think that the most likely setup would be if a particular faction performs an act of war that either Cagalli or Lacus finds it impossible to repudiate. An excellent example of this would be how the actions of the IJA in World War II drove Japan's wartime strategy. This is much more likely of a weak leader with a relatively independent military, so it's much more likely to happen to Cagalli than to Lacus.

A possible scenario would be an Earth military (Atlantic Federation or what have you) crucial to an Orb coalition launching an attack on a ZAFT base on Earth because PLANT either refused to give it up or were withdrawing too slowly.
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Old 2008-03-20, 20:20   Link #1224
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I think that the most likely setup would be if a particular faction performs an act of war that either Cagalli or Lacus finds it impossible to repudiate. An excellent example of this would be how the actions of the IJA in World War II drove Japan's wartime strategy. This is much more likely of a weak leader with a relatively independent military, so it's much more likely to happen to Cagalli than to Lacus.

A possible scenario would be an Earth military (Atlantic Federation or what have you) crucial to an Orb coalition launching an attack on a ZAFT base on Earth because PLANT either refused to give it up or were withdrawing too slowly.
If that (your first paragraph) is the case, it would almost certainly be an Orb partner doing the fighting; ZAFT's allies are far too weak and surrounded by strong enemies to do much aggression. Oceania (Australia and New Zealand) are small and close to East Asia and the Equatorial Union. Western Europe faces the Eurasian Federation on its Eastern Border. South America, of uncertain leanings, has the still mighty AF on its border. On the otherhand, Orb would be working its way into the EA, and wouldn't have similarly compliant vassals that can be restrained.
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Old 2008-03-20, 20:28   Link #1225
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
so even having the ulimate coordinator technology apparently won't address the main issue.
I actually never even thought that the two would be related. In fact, the UC project is addressing a different problem coordinators face (perhaps less dire) than the growing sterility of the third generation.

But now that you mention it, the UC technology, if it works, might provide some sort of control subject (though I'm probably misusing the term) to start an experiment on discovering what might have gone wrong with the third generation. Saying that they lack viable zygotes is obvious but doesn't really offer much help. The generic mule comes to my mind (though of course not exactly the same), only in this case, scientists may know more about it. The main problem is whether they have the time and the will to do so. And of course, this does not depend on having the UC technology.
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Old 2008-03-20, 20:45   Link #1226
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
I actually never even thought that the two would be related. In fact, the UC project is addressing a different problem coordinators face (perhaps less dire) than the growing sterility of the third generation.

But now that you mention it, the UC technology, if it works, might provide some sort of control subject (though I'm probably misusing the term) to start an experiment on discovering what might have gone wrong with the third generation. Saying that they lack viable zygotes is obvious but doesn't really offer much help. The generic mule comes to my mind (though of course not exactly the same), only in this case, scientists may know more about it. The main problem is whether they have the time and the will to do so. And of course, this does not depend on having the UC technology.
There's also the matter of whether or not they would be allowed to do so without outside interference. Few things would warm the hearts of Blue Cosmos or the anti-ZAFT nations as much as knowing that the fertility crisis will remain unsolved, and if it takes a few plausibly deniable terrorist attacks to do so, then why not?
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Old 2008-03-20, 21:04   Link #1227
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Having a new director (and a new writer...) while still retaining the SEED universe and characters would be really interesting. Imagine if the guys doing 00 had done a SEED show or movie...
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Old 2008-03-20, 21:07   Link #1228
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The chances of there being a Graham would be near 0. Boo!

(Well, not really, but how likely would North America be to produce Mu AND a Graham?
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Old 2008-03-20, 21:13   Link #1229
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
The chances of there being a Graham would be near 0. Boo!

(Well, not really, but how likely would North America be to produce Mu AND a Graham?
Quiet you, you'd still get your Graham.

I mean, they did both shows as opposed to the old guys doing the SEED movie (and making me worry whether it'll be good like SEED or...not so good like Destiny).
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Old 2008-03-22, 12:50   Link #1230
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I'm opposed to a 3rd series. Why? Because GSDisaster totally ruined the CE timeline. I don't see how Fukuda/Morosawa can save that. In fact, even a new director can't repair the damage done. Unless the new team decides to push the old characters into the far background (and in doing so, off some of them), it won't work out.
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Old 2008-03-22, 15:12   Link #1231
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I'm opposed to a 3rd series. Why? Because GSDisaster totally ruined the CE timeline. I don't see how Fukuda/Morosawa can save that. In fact, even a new director can't repair the damage done. Unless the new team decides to push the old characters into the far background (and in doing so, off some of them), it won't work out.
You never know....The C.E. timeline might work out in the third series...Gundam Seed Destiny isnt THAT bad compared to all anime in general. The only thing that sucked in GSD basically was the ending and the reused ideas. The ending had horrible placement, I mean c'mon....They went shopping 4 phases before the final phase. Since I thought Gundam Seed was well-done, I believe Fukuda can make a pretty decent series, given a better writer and etc...Fukuda screwed up, even he admits that, but hey! Nobody's perfect.

For all we know, the third installment to the Seed timeline could be the best series you've ever seen....Since Fukuda EVEN ADMITS HE MESSED UP, he might just make a decent series, hopefully learning from his mistakes. He for sure, won't make another crap series, I can almost guarantee...almost....


As for first impressions, not many people thought Deathnote would be popular before it really finished the beginning.
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Old 2008-03-22, 20:12   Link #1232
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what also that GSD had it's "fanservice" come shinn's hand on stellar, lacus & cagalli's hot spring, & even lacus's spinning ribbon on final plus OMG geez like GSD was taking a new level of gundam series.

besides GSD was 1st series in the history of gundam to be the 1st non-uc series to get a 2nd tv season really does anyone notice that especially 04 was gundam's 25th year & GSD try it best to honor.

& as for GS 3 well how knows after when fukada's wife is all better for GSM then maybe GS 3 but as a spinoff, ova series, special edtions, mini GS the series (yeah more mini GS), etc?
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Old 2008-03-22, 21:00   Link #1233
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You never know....The C.E. timeline might work out in the third series...Gundam Seed Destiny isnt THAT bad compared to all anime in general. The only thing that sucked in GSD basically was the ending and the reused ideas.
And the recycled stock footage, the mindless grunts, the endless flashbacks, the atrocious pacing, the dropped story lines (Phantom Paine ship? Hello? Where did you go?), the entirely skipped plot points (history of Neo Loaranoke BEFORE the last episode, perhaps), the two-bit patheticness of all enemy nations (I am Atlantic Federation/Eurasia, her me phail), the epic plot holes and storyline errors that required total rewrites to halfway retcon out of existence...

There were many, MANY things wrong with Destiny besides the ending.

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The ending had horrible placement, I mean c'mon....They went shopping 4 phases before the final phase. Since I thought Gundam Seed was well-done, I believe Fukuda can make a pretty decent series, given a better writer and etc...Fukuda screwed up, even he admits that, but hey! Nobody's perfect.
Nobody's perfect, but even animation has standards. When you've proven you can produce decent quality, doing worse just doesn't cut it.
Quote:

For all we know, the third installment to the Seed timeline could be the best series you've ever seen....Since Fukuda EVEN ADMITS HE MESSED UP, he might just make a decent series, hopefully learning from his mistakes. He for sure, won't make another crap series, I can almost guarantee...almost....
Another series? About what? Most of the next ideas basically involve putting as much distance between it and the first two series as possible, but considering how a certain few characters went along and hijacked the second series, they'd all but have to be in series three. Otherwise the fangirls would cry, and it might as well be another universe entirely.
Quote:
As for first impressions, not many people thought Deathnote would be popular before it really finished the beginning.
And at first, people thought that Destiny would be made of starlight and awsomesause. If we go by your optimism for a season three, where does that put us again?
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Old 2008-03-22, 23:08   Link #1234
4Tran
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Another series? About what? Most of the next ideas basically involve putting as much distance between it and the first two series as possible, but considering how a certain few characters went along and hijacked the second series, they'd all but have to be in series three. Otherwise the fangirls would cry, and it might as well be another universe entirely.
The best aspect of Seed/Destiny is the universe itself. It presents more rich story-telling opportunities than any of the other Gundam universes to date. Whether another show uses the same characters or not, and whether Fukuda and Morosawa are involved or not won't detract from this intrinsic richness.

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And at first, people thought that Destiny would be made of starlight and awsomesause. If we go by your optimism for a season three, where does that put us again?
To be honest, I thought that, save for a few nice touches, the beginning of Destiny wasn't all that great. On a rewatch, the beginning is serviceable, but still not as good as the second half. (And yes, that's in spite of the retcons, the overuse of flashbacks, and sometimes tortured writing)
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Old 2008-03-22, 23:18   Link #1235
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
To be honest, I thought that, save for a few nice touches, the beginning of Destiny wasn't all that great. On a rewatch, the beginning is serviceable, but still not as good as the second half. (And yes, that's in spite of the retcons, the overuse of flashbacks, and sometimes tortured writing)
Agreed. For me the reason was because it felt like every single event that occurred in Destiny was something that happened in SEED, as if they were trying to re-create it. As a result it felt somewhat forced, predictable, nonsensical, and boring.
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Old 2008-03-22, 23:27   Link #1236
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Agreed. For me the reason was because it felt like every single event that occurred in Destiny was something that happened in SEED, as if they were trying to re-create it. As a result it felt somewhat forced, predictable, nonsensical, and boring.
I think that there's a certain amount of truth to that regarding the first half of Destiny, but the second half is quite a bit different. I get the feeling that the effect was on purpose, that the creators were trying to get the audience to view the events in one way just to go and switch it somewhere in the middle. It's too bad that they didn't pull it off as well as they intended.
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Old 2008-03-23, 00:49   Link #1237
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what would be interesting to see in the third seed if it happens is that Shinn finds out that Kira is actually the person who killed his family. and see him like freak on his ass :P
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Old 2008-03-23, 01:00   Link #1238
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what would be interesting to see in the third seed if it happens is that Shinn finds out that Kira is actually the person who killed his family. and see him like freak on his ass :P
Didn't Shinn blame Kira (and Cagalli, and to a lesser extent, Athrun) for the death of his family in Destiny already? That aside, I didn't feel that Kira killed his family. His family was hit from a stray laser shot, and while the series never exactly showed who fired it I always thought it was from one of the Federation's drug soldiers (specifically, the bluish-colored one; Raider, if I remember right).
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Old 2008-03-23, 01:48   Link #1239
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Shinn never blamed Kira for anything but Stella. Shit, Shinn never even KNEW who Kira was THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SERIES. He just knew him as that gentle guy that liked flowers. In fact he DIDN'T know he was in the Freedom. Ever. In Final +, Athrun finally gives the two a formal introduction, making Shinn bawl one last time over his stupidity.

The teal druggy gundam was calamity.

And anyway, we'll never find out who killed Shinn's family, whether it was Kira misfiring or Calamity causing an explosion or whatnot.
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Old 2008-03-23, 03:42   Link #1240
Last_Hope
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Having a new director (and a new writer...) while still retaining the SEED universe and characters would be really interesting. Imagine if the guys doing 00 had done a SEED show or movie...
Like there are that much of a difference to begin with... A small group consisting of a lot of youngsters defeating the entire world for their own sake. Now, where have I seen that? Hmm... Itīs not like 00 is bad in any way, I really enjoy watching it. But after listening to all the hype it got before it started on how it would be something completely different... Looking at 00 and comparing it with SEED, I donīt think it has lived up to the hype so far.


I love SEED but I sincerely hope that the movie will be the last we see of it. I donīt mind them continuing the CE but SEED should end (preferrably with a happy ending for Kira and Lacus ) with the movie. I donīt think thereīs anything more (thatīll be good) they can or should do with it. Just let an equally overpowered terrorist fraction fight the good guys in the movie, and lose, and give me a Kira Lacus wedding at the end of the movie and then let it rest.
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Last edited by Last_Hope; 2008-03-23 at 04:07.
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