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Old 2008-04-03, 15:37   Link #1321
Dean_the_Young
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
None of this is necessary. We have records of the TV ratings and media sales of all the Gundam shows, and both Seed and Destiny are much higher on those lists than anything post-ZZ.

Obviously, Sir Dearka's points are regarding sales and popularity in Japan since Zeta, so quit pretending to be obtuse.
The point I was trying to make is that it would be hard to make a good analogy of which would be more popular, because of the time gap in both animation and audiences since then. If Seed had been made and produced back then, would it have been comparable? Had Zeta somehow been made and premiered in 200x, would it have been as big or better than Seed turned out to be? I believe its too hard of a proper comparison to make, because the two are made for different audiences in very different times. Not trying to sound snipy at him, and if I did I apologize Dearka.

*I will concede "position" may have been a better choice for what I was trying to get across.
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Old 2008-04-03, 16:28   Link #1322
Sir Dearka
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I can see your point. Still, one could not change the fact that every newest Gundam series shall be compared to its predecessors. And yeah, the game is unfair, c'ause 'the new' will most certainly always beat 'the old' with its stunning and up-to-date graphics. But it is still just natural to compare the series to each other, I suppose...
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Old 2008-04-03, 16:40   Link #1323
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
The point I was trying to make is that it would be hard to make a good analogy of which would be more popular, because of the time gap in both animation and audiences since then. If Seed had been made and produced back then, would it have been comparable? Had Zeta somehow been made and premiered in 200x, would it have been as big or better than Seed turned out to be? I believe its too hard of a proper comparison to make, because the two are made for different audiences in very different times. Not trying to sound snipy at him, and if I did I apologize Dearka.
These questions are asking why a show is as popular as it was. That's a little less important for this point than how popular they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka
I can see your point. Still, one could not change the fact that every newest Gundam series shall be compared to its predecessors. And yeah, the game is unfair, c'ause 'the new' will most certainly always beat 'the old' with its stunning and up-to-date graphics. But it is still just natural to compare the series to each other, I suppose...
It's not really unfair at all since your comparison was on historical grounds. Besides, Mobile Suit Gundam itself is the most popular of the Gundam shows, but its also the oldest of them as well.

An unfair comparison would be to say something on the order of "Gundam Seed Destiny sold more DVDs in 2007 than Mobile Suit Gundam did, therefore it's the more popular show".
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Old 2008-04-03, 20:03   Link #1324
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Well...I like Gundam Seed more than 00....Personal preference, I liked the story more than I did with 00 and Setsuna. I felt Gundam Seed had better characters such as Kira and such...I could not get any personal connection with Setsuna at all, maybe due to his personality? I also liked Gundam Seed's better, since everything is so straight forward, Coordinator vs Natural, unlike the over-confusion 00 caused me. And I'm younger than most of the people here, I guess that can account for me liking Gundam Seed rather than 00...Anyhow I rather root for a season 3 for Gundam Seed rather than another Gundam Series.
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Old 2008-04-03, 20:12   Link #1325
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There is no more character development left in Kira, he's basically the perfect person. He fights perfectly and makes perfect decisions. The only way for the series to continue is for him to die but he's just so damn popular.
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Old 2008-04-03, 21:48   Link #1326
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Woot, make 10 episodes of hardcore LacusxKira arc....I'd tap that and watch that......Not a big fan of romance, but KiraxLacus are teh bomb. If that actually did happen though, I would be the first one to download it, if it wasnt licensed(a possibility) or send a minion to buy it for me.
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Old 2008-04-03, 22:28   Link #1327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero147
Well...I like Gundam Seed more than 00....Personal preference, I liked the story more than I did with 00 and Setsuna. I felt Gundam Seed had better characters such as Kira and such...I could not get any personal connection with Setsuna at all, maybe due to his personality?
It is personal preference, but it's also the way the series is run. Gundam 00 marks Setsuna as the main character, but look at how much screentime he has or how often we go inside his head. Often we're jumping between characters and different forces. We see some of Setsuna's dream sequences and flashbacks but he's basically emotionless - his character was made to be, but who can really relate to that?

On the other hand Kira was very human and was clearly the center of attention in the show. Everything followed what Kira was doing, and while some people criticised a lot of Kira's frequent crying I think many of us felt pity for him. We're so used to characters that kill and deal with death without any reaction that SEED's use of sadness, crying, and so on made it feel a bit more realistic. We could relate to Kira through his suffering and his raw emotions.

SEED Destiny portrayed Kira as a character much more like Setsuna. I can't say I liked it... although I like Setsuna well enough. It's all personal and thus relative, but I really felt a strong connection with Kira and the events as they unfolded in SEED. Not enough to turn me into D-KLAC but enough that I can remember a lot of SEED much better than many other series.

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Woot, make 10 episodes of hardcore LacusxKira arc....I'd tap that and watch that......
With the way you worded that, I couldn't help but think you were requesting a hentai rendition
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Old 2008-04-04, 06:47   Link #1328
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Well, of course its hard to relate to a character like Setsuna...how many of you grew up in the middle east and were forced to kill your parents and become a soldier for a terrorist organization?

As for me relating to any of the CE characters...didn't happen. Heck, I would like nothing more than to see them all die in the new movie. Hell, I was hoping for most of them to die in GSD. I don't know, but when I want nothing more than for most of the main cast of a series to be killed off...I think that means the series has failed for me.
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Old 2008-04-04, 08:47   Link #1329
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Well, of course its hard to relate to a character like Setsuna...how many of you grew up in the middle east and were forced to kill your parents and become a soldier for a terrorist organization?

As for me relating to any of the CE characters...didn't happen. Heck, I would like nothing more than to see them all die in the new movie. Hell, I was hoping for most of them to die in GSD. I don't know, but when I want nothing more than for most of the main cast of a series to be killed off...I think that means the series has failed for me.
how dare you say that besides that they need K.L.A.C. as well with others originals GS characters was really needed in GSD.

& besides also GSD did the return of mu.

yet you've no idea about GSM cause since morosawa is having a ill neck just wait for GSM

& really how about all GS fans ask for a prequal saga of GS world to know more about GS's past.
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Old 2008-04-04, 08:59   Link #1330
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Originally Posted by D-KLAC View Post
how dare you say that besides that they need K.L.A.C. as well with others originals GS characters was really needed in GSD.
I believe I am entitled to say what I think. You can't tell me otherwise.

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yet you've no idea about GSM cause since morosawa is having a ill neck just wait for GSM
I am quite aware of the movie and the stupid reason it was put on hold.

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Originally Posted by D-KLAC View Post
& really how about all GS fans ask for a prequal saga of GS world to know more about GS's past.
You do realize a prequel about CE's past would likely NOT involve ANY of the characters you love so much.

Seriously D-KLAC, I do not like CE much at all, and I believe I am allowed to not like it, regardless of what you think.
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Old 2008-04-04, 11:54   Link #1331
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
It is personal preference, but it's also the way the series is run. Gundam 00 marks Setsuna as the main character, but look at how much screentime he has or how often we go inside his head. Often we're jumping between characters and different forces. We see some of Setsuna's dream sequences and flashbacks but he's basically emotionless - his character was made to be, but who can really relate to that?

On the other hand Kira was very human and was clearly the center of attention in the show. Everything followed what Kira was doing, and while some people criticised a lot of Kira's frequent crying I think many of us felt pity for him. We're so used to characters that kill and deal with death without any reaction that SEED's use of sadness, crying, and so on made it feel a bit more realistic. We could relate to Kira through his suffering and his raw emotions.

SEED Destiny portrayed Kira as a character much more like Setsuna. I can't say I liked it... although I like Setsuna well enough. It's all personal and thus relative, but I really felt a strong connection with Kira and the events as they unfolded in SEED. Not enough to turn me into D-KLAC but enough that I can remember a lot of SEED much better than many other series.


With the way you worded that, I couldn't help but think you were requesting a hentai rendition
Cold yes,but in no way at all does being cold and sort of detached equal being a pure emotionless character.His meetings with Ali,revelation to Lockon,Lockon's death,and the end of 00 all quite disagree with you.

Being an outwardly vocal character also doesn't means that there is extreme depth to the character.

Just because Setsuna isn't always an outwardly vocal character does not mean he is emotionless.It just isn't his character.

Last edited by Zeta Gundam; 2008-04-04 at 12:05.
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Old 2008-04-04, 12:54   Link #1332
tetsuo69
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setusna is just a poor ver of heero yuy and 00 a wanna be Gundam Wing. 00s1 suck badly, i have high hopes for the S2, 00 sure has really Good Animation, thats where it beats Seed badly at xD. other than that i went thru the first season and dislike 80% of it. and the reason why i have high hopes for S2 is cause the last few Ep of 00 were really good.


Now i expect the next month more news on the Seed movie ^_^
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Old 2008-04-04, 13:31   Link #1333
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Well, of course its hard to relate to a character like Setsuna...how many of you grew up in the middle east and were forced to kill your parents and become a soldier for a terrorist organization?
Well that's true and it probably contributes, but I was focusing more on what the characters go through. I mean, Setsuna was completely cold to everyone (note that I'm only on episode 20 or something, I've fallen behind, haven't had time to watch). We don't get a real feel for when he feels pain or sympathy, there's just confusion about whether he's Gundam (the chosen one, perhaps) or whether he's strong enough - and even then, I'm making some heavy assumptions. We just don't see enough of him. With CE, it was largely all Kira. In fights, it was Kira against everyone else (for the most part), so even during those scenes we got to see some of what he was going through.

When I say that you can relate to the characters, I don't mean to say that we've been through the same events that they have. Sure, I haven't killed my parents or been involved in a terrorist organization, but similarly I haven't been involved in a fight to the death with my best friend. I don't think that's really what connects us to them, it's how we see it. If Setsuna had those flashbacks about killing his parents and we occasionally saw tears in his eyes, we'd probably feel sympathy. But we don't really see anything. Similarly, what if Kira fought with Athrun and didn't really feel anything? We see Kira acting totally confused, we see him try to negotiate and work around the system - and it also helped that Athrun himself was rather human about it, also showing signs of tears, confusion, and a lack of desire to fight his friend. It was very human, in my opinion. I was touched. I don't think I shed tears during those scenes but near the end of the series I know that my eyes watered a bit here and there. But again, it's all personal - it connected with me, but that doesn't mean it'll connect with everyone else.

Quote:
As for me relating to any of the CE characters...didn't happen. Heck, I would like nothing more than to see them all die in the new movie. Hell, I was hoping for most of them to die in GSD. I don't know, but when I want nothing more than for most of the main cast of a series to be killed off...I think that means the series has failed for me.
Perhaps it failed, but perhaps not. To be honest, I was expecting some of the main characters from SEED to be killed in Destiny. It would have made things incredibly dramatic, and it seemed like they were trying to replace the SEED cast with the new Destiny characters anyway.

Very early into the series, I started hating the Destiny characters and wanted them to die, too. Destiny didn't connect with me at all. I can barely remember it except for a few scenes, particularly those where Shinn's character seemed to be one big hypocrisy after another. I wouldn't say that I enjoyed it - especially when compared with my views of SEED.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta Gundam View Post
Cold yes,but in no way at all does being cold and sort of detached equal being a pure emotionless character.His meetings with Ali,revelation to Lockon,Lockon's death,and the end of 00 all quite disagree with you.

Being an outwardly vocal character also doesn't means that there is extreme depth to the character.

Just because Setsuna isn't always an outwardly vocal character does not mean he is emotionless.It just isn't his character.
Well erm... I guess I know what to expect a few episodes from where I'm at Spoiler tags next time please! (I guess we should theoretically be using spoiler tags for the SEED discussion as well, but it's probably safe to assume that if you're in this thread, you've finished off both CE series).

I may respond to your first statement when I see it for myself (and damn, Lockon was my favorite character) but with regard to being outwardly vocal and having extreme death - you're right, but if we don't have any hooks to the character then they might as well be a robot. Even if Setsuna's character drastically changes near the end of the first half of Gundam 00 it doesn't make what I said untrue about the first 20 or so episodes.

Did you feel close to Setsuna? I'd say that maybe I felt closer to him than the other main characters, just by virtue of the fact that he is clearly made out to be the main character and receives at least a bit more screen time than the others (actually, I probably felt closest to Lockon - again, he's the most "human" and shows the most emotion... I'll have to think about that). But what about compared to how close you felt to the characters in SEED, or even other anime series? When I think of SEED I immediately think of Kira and Athrun; when I think of Blue Drop I think of Marie and Ekaril; when I think of Eureka 7 I think of Renton, Eureka, and Holland; and so on. There are generally defining characters. When I think of Gundam 00 I think of... well, the gundams?

Setsuna is definitely not the first character that pops up into my mind just because he's so bland. He doesn't have to say a lot, but we can't really get into his mind at all. What does he really want? The objectives that we're shown seem too simple - he doesn't care about anything except world peace, achieved through being the strongest fighter (my interpretation)? That's it? Bland life. I can relate to wanting world peace but Setsuna doesn't even express anything along the way, you know? When he's bested in battle he seems crestfallen but we don't really know what he's thinking about.

I could go on and on about how it's just too hard to hook into Setsuna, but I realize that at the end of the day it really is all personal. To me, Setsuna's character is a completely smooth wall and there's nothing for me to get a grip on, but I'd imagine that there are people who are deeply moved by Setsuna's struggles and can relate to his silence and stoic attitude. It's all subjective, I suppose I was just venting some frustrations about being left out of being able to relate

Happy Friday everyone!
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Old 2008-04-04, 17:00   Link #1334
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i forgot to say, 00 also best seed with the hot Female characters XD sumeragi!!!
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Old 2008-04-04, 18:32   Link #1335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta Gundam View Post
Cold yes,but in no way at all does being cold and sort of detached equal being a pure emotionless character.His meetings with Ali,revelation to Lockon,Lockon's death,and the end of 00 all quite disagree with you.

Being an outwardly vocal character also doesn't means that there is extreme depth to the character.

Just because Setsuna isn't always an outwardly vocal character does not mean he is emotionless.It just isn't his character.
The debate should have stopped here. And Setsuna is vocal, its when someone steps on what he believes in that are real priorities to him is when he does become vocal at times, otherwise, he falls back and does what he feels is necessary to complete his goals asking himself and others questions along the way. He simply doesnt feel theirs a need to whine and cry at every corner about every little thing.

Last edited by Chase; 2008-04-04 at 19:03.
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Old 2008-04-04, 19:25   Link #1336
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Originally Posted by IHaveCrayons View Post
There is no more character development left in Kira, he's basically the perfect person. He fights perfectly and makes perfect decisions. The only way for the series to continue is for him to die but he's just so damn popular.
Basically, they would be best served if they just made a sequel movie with a new enemy and then classic Kira starts typing on the key board and spams the enemy to death. Thats the only way i see it working. "Married with Kira's children" fans would never accept anything less.
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Old 2008-04-04, 20:12   Link #1337
4Tran
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Can we please put a halt on all this talk about Gundam 00 or Setsuna in this thread? There are plenty of places to do that on this forum.
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Old 2008-04-05, 02:43   Link #1338
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D-KLAC: I think u should try to watch Gundam 00 and Code Geass.

LELOUCH>KIRA. Period.

i hope Lacus will do somethng stupid like.... killing people. Just like Euphie did....
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Old 2008-04-05, 03:30   Link #1339
Sir Dearka
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I'll just have to write: Well said, Ledgem

LEOUCH>KIRA, I agree. But still, if I had to choose a series to show my son, I'd definitely pick Gundam SEED. Lelouch is too controvertial a character for me to even sympathize whith his point of view. That's why the gentleness of Kira is more moving to me than Lelouch's lust for vengeance.
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Old 2008-04-05, 14:36   Link #1340
Synria_
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Originally Posted by Shinn_Kabuto View Post
i hope Lacus will do somethng stupid like.... killing people. Just like Euphie did....
Are you serious? Wow... haters coming up with stupid things like this. HOPING to kill people... YOU FAIL!

Lelouch is definitely an interesting character and I would say he has more confidence than Kira does. It all comes down to who can kick who's ass.

Kira is better at piloting mechas and Kira can whoop Lelouch's ass. So Kira>Lelouch.

Here's hoping that I get to see Lacus back in action soon. (Kalen from Geass too)
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