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Old 2007-10-12, 08:57   Link #241
Kagami_
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can anyone tell me name & artist of the background music playing in the prologue vid?
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Old 2007-10-12, 09:30   Link #242
guuchan
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Originally Posted by Kagami_ View Post
can anyone tell me name & artist of the background music playing in the prologue vid?
It's an arranged instrumental version of the game's theme song "Yuukyuu no Tsubasa", composed by Tenmon.
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Old 2007-10-12, 10:52   Link #243
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Ok will admit that the first time I went through it got slightly confused for some reason. But starting to get a hold on the different characters and what will be going on with their stories. At least an interesting start to things.

Was probably the only one that felt bad for that bike.
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Old 2007-10-12, 12:02   Link #244
Kaoru Chujo
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Rewatched ep1 with the sub and liked it even more. Perhaps because I grasped who was who and what was what better than at first viewing. One of the more enjoyable shows of the new season, for me, with what looks like some real romance. I was worried about the VAs, but they seem fine to me after one ep.
Spoiler for speculation based on ep1:
As for the artsiness, I think we should credit that to Akiyuki Shinbou rather than SHAFT. He has been the director or adviser or chief director of all the shows like this: Negima!?, Hidamari Sketch, Zetsubou-sensei. Before he got going, SHAFT weren't so visually adventurous, were they (Mahoromatic, He is My Master)? I think bringing in Tenmon was a great idea: the music adds a lot of feeling here.
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Old 2007-10-12, 12:16   Link #245
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Rewatched ep1 with the sub and liked it even more. Perhaps because I grasped who was who and what was what better than at first viewing. One of the more enjoyable shows of the new season, for me, with what looks like some real romance. I was worried about the VAs, but they seem fine to me after one ep.
Spoiler for speculation based on ep1:
I agree, actually. I rewatched the first episode as well, and liked it even more than the first time for largely the same reasons. The connections between the characters and stories make more sense, and the pacing and flow seem more logical. The first time I was sort of wowed/distracted by the visual effects, but on second viewing, it seemed to flow much more smoothly. So yeah... I'm quite interested in seeing what happens next. It's definitely got me curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
As for the artsiness, I think we should credit that to Akiyuki Shinbou rather than SHAFT. He has been the director or adviser or chief director of all the shows like this: Negima!?, Hidamari Sketch, Zetsubou-sensei. Before he got going, SHAFT weren't so visually adventurous, were they (Mahoromatic, He is My Master)?
I think you're probably right that he deserves the credit for leading Shaft in that direction, but the only reason I don't like people only attributing it to him is that the torch has largely been passed now. For example, on this show, he's the supervisor, with other people doing the series direction, art direction and so on. So, whether it works or doesn't, it's no longer just about Shinbou anymore. If people like it, they should give credit where it's due (to the director, art director, and so on - Shinbou's just one of the team, and maybe the inspiration), but if they don't like, it's not like it's one person's fault. The whole company's "in" on it now.
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Old 2007-10-12, 13:16   Link #246
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I agree, actually. I rewatched the first episode as well, and liked it even more than the first time for largely the same reasons. The connections between the characters and stories make more sense, and the pacing and flow seem more logical. The first time I was sort of wowed/distracted by the visual effects, but on second viewing, it seemed to flow much more smoothly. So yeah... I'm quite interested in seeing what happens next. It's definitely got me curious.
I also have to agree. My second time viewing has made this one of my favourite shows of the season. The brilliant SHAFT style can work with any setting --- when you think about past work's like (just to name a few, and yes --- i know because of Shinbo) Soultaker, Paniponi Dash & Tsukuyomi. Apart from REC, this is the only SHAFT work that i've seen, which tells a pure romance story. Just going by the first episode, i hope it's something they do more of in the future.

Even if i didn't look up before hand on the composer of the series, i would have known it was Tenmon right from the start. I've heard a lot of piano tracks over the many many years, and nothing quite compares to his technique --- the one that draws you in, and never let's go. Being a piece of music that you'll never forget --- quite an experience if you ask me, just being able to hear his music. :3

Wonderful start, to a series i very much love at the moment.
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Old 2007-10-12, 16:05   Link #247
Kensuke
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A nice boat reference!? Now that was fast!
About 7:06 where the girl steals the bike (always when a new season begins there is easily a few dozen new names to learn...), she drops a piece of paper, I saw some text on it, I go back and pause, and I almost fell of my chair when I saw what was written on it: "nice boat". It is literally a single frame, blink and miss it. But is that a good sign or a bad...
Oh and nice Konata game too.

Anyway, the episode was absolutely beautiful, I loved it! Easily this seasons best first episode with Clannad's.
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Old 2007-10-12, 19:42   Link #248
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Hmm..this was another harem i was really waiting for. I liked episode 1..but somehow the character design was not exactly to my liking. Being an artist..it actually holds a bit of importance for me. Even the whole presentation seems very similar to Negima!? and frankly a bit overdone. Most of the times I dont even get why they animated it so beautifully when it really doesnt serve any purpose.

Anyway..these negative points are not that big..definitely a very fresh way of potraying a harem. A very nice episode too. It is no CLANNAD..but hech..no one told it wont get the second spot
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Old 2007-10-12, 22:51   Link #249
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I guess it's probably worth pointing out that "harem" probably wouldn't be an apt label to put on the show, since it's dealing with three different stories of three different couples (who will certainly cross paths, of course). Harem, to me, would have to imply that all the girls are after/competing for one guy's attention/affection.

I realize you probably only meant it as a word, and didn't really mean anything by it. But the only reason I bring it up is that some people categorically refuse to watch a show when it has the "harem" label, since it's widely seen as a derogative. Wouldn't want people to get a false impression.
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Old 2007-10-12, 23:54   Link #250
kevin13
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Cool, this seem quite interesting. I like the vocal less OP and it's interesting how the art like changes to B&W and washout.

Definitely will be following this one.
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Old 2007-10-13, 13:41   Link #251
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Hm, got slightly confused the first time watching it, but I think I'll make an exception to my one-time-viewing rule and rewatch this episode. In case I don't get it, is there a summary available of some sort for this episode? I can be slow at times. :P

EDIT: The music is scarily similar to The Place Promised In Our Early Days when Hiroki was narrating halfway into the movie. It's so emotional. Strange, I had to watch to movie many times too before I could fully understand it.
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Old 2007-10-13, 13:53   Link #252
Katapan
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Oh boy. Shaft does it again.
I was mostly looking forward to seeing ep2 for the possible use of Euphoric Field, actually...

Spoiler for ep2:
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Old 2007-10-13, 14:21   Link #253
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Oooooo! Got a Youtube link for that pretty thing?!
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Old 2007-10-13, 15:08   Link #254
Klashikari
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Okay... after watching the second episode, I'm wondering if SHAFT isn't going madness for "experimental anime" or such...

For starter, this episode visual quality is very neat and impressive. The details and such are pretty good to the point it might be mistaken by "big" studio like Sunrise, KyoAni, etc.
Things are very neat with the sky (though it is sometimes completely overkill, to the point it doesn't suit the basic anime art), and the last scene was eye candy
That could be great until... the horrible animation and camera use weren't that erratic.
The great prejudice of these 2 points are self explanatory: at the start, the mouths were horribly animated, as it almost looked like they forgot many frames and it became choppy as hell (Chihiro and Yuu)

The "art shift", SHAFT usual signature, wasn't as abused as in first episode, but several sequence of these didn't make much sense, and some "outerspace" background didn't match the mood at all. (especially when Hiro was on the rooftop)

Now, as i said before, the camera was the worst predicament ever, as ... more than 1/3 of the time, the camera was like 10-15 meters away from the characters... This is really something HURTFUL for the mood, as you can't see the characters facial expressions nor closely their movements. This is even worse they are portrayed as mere silhouette instead of "bodies" in front of background.
At least, the Camera zoom has a close look on several instances (especially Miyako), but we never see any "dynamism".
Things are worse when you actually realise that the anime visual quality is dampened, because of... the still shot. I don't understand why they do this, but the camera never zoom in or zoom out, nor it moves by any means. They just shift another angle for some seconds to change again, abruptly, without a good timing. (simply, they JUMP from a place to another on the scene, without much transition or movement) Things would go smoother with a dynamic camera and/or a middle plan, instead of stupid far sight or absurd zoom in.
This default is my main problem, because the emotions of the characters are just based on their speeches and tones... but absolutely never on their facial expressions or movements.
IT is worse to think that the actual visual sight is somewhat distracting the mood, as the camera is more loving to focus on the Bg instead of the said characters (especially Renji and Chihiro)

Another big issue: the pace was really unbalanced for me: things like 1/4 SUPER rush, 1/4 or "normal" speed, and the rest is just iffy slow (again, renji and chihiro). Few things happen, but the earlier defaults hurt a LOT the depth of interactions and their meaning

And finally, the end of the episode... Simply, they managed to do a very neat and beautiful mood (well the only one of this episode), but... they suddenly wasted it. How? simply by muting the characters and rushing many shots of different angles and actions of Chihiro and Renji without any logic or transition (each frame just succeed to each other without any pause or so), and it just switch directly to the ED, without ANY, i said ANY, transition at all.

Overall, this episode is kinda disappointing as well, because they failed to emphasis the mood and the interactions. Rather they try to use experimental "deviant" art, which are far less clumsy in this episode. The problem is that even the "normal art" is distracting and insavise, as the background is almost taking over the interest of the watchers.

Also, there wasn't any OP, and it looks like they pick a slow part of "euphoric field" for the "ed". I cannot tell if it is indeed the OP put in such weird place as the end of the episode, or it is another part of the OP taken for the "weekly different" ED.
Speaking of this sequence, i hated it, pure and simple.
It doesnt' suit at all this kind of story nor "usual art", it is like trying to use usual eroge characters with Negima/poni pani dash execution. Seriously, it isn't nothing outstanding, but rather impertinent and surely not matching the mood.
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Old 2007-10-13, 15:24   Link #255
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Very interesting comments about the cinematography, Klashikari, and very apt. You really do need to treat this anime as if it were film, as it seems the director is going for that sort of style/effect. It's interesting to see how his approach affected the budget allocation; it's an extremely different blend than what you usually see in anime. I'm curious to see what, if any, changes there are on the DVDs. Success or failure is, I guess, up to the DVD-purchasers to decide, but from a cinematic perspective, I'd definitely agree -- this is "experimental anime".

Edit: I must say, though... that ED, and the "transition" that proceeded it, may have been an extremely odd choice for the material, but it was damn cool. I had to watch the fast-forward sequence frame by frame -- all the good close-up angles missing during the episode were there!

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2007-10-13 at 15:56.
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Old 2007-10-13, 16:58   Link #256
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Very interesting comments about the cinematography, Klashikari, and very apt. You really do need to treat this anime as if it were film, as it seems the director is going for that sort of style/effect.
The problem is that even as an anime or a movie, it isn't exactly giving much sense, as the story is almost put in the background, while the scenery and odd camera choices are really "plaguing" the experience.

I believe a "poetic" film should give as much emphasis to the characters as the plot or background.
In the case of ef, however, things are disjointed, as most points don't merge for an harmony.
Rather it looks like both points (characters, plot, background/visual) are simply struggling to take over the spotlight.

Ef would be wonderful if the choices "make sense", as you can see some synergy and such. Which is unfortunately not the case, as i commented above because of the issue with the execution.
In most films of this kind of genre, the events and characters are much more focalised, which can deal prejudice for the "touch" and mood.
That's quite the complete opposite for ef, as they simply pack everything on the "touch" and feel, despite it doesn't give the actual mood of said situations and characters.
Quote:
It's interesting to see how his approach affected the budget allocation; it's an extremely different blend than what you usually see in anime. I'm curious to see what, if any, changes there are on the DVDs. Success or failure is, I guess, up to the DVD-purchasers to decide, but from a cinematic perspective, I'd definitely agree -- this is "experimental anime".
That's why i noted both eye candy aspect but choppy and "cheap" attempts to lessen the burden on animators. It is quite obvious that SHAFT is trying to give an impact with a fantasy and clearly personal style in the visual "demonstration", which obviously deal a huge prejudice for not only the cohesion between such efforts (as shown as the differences between scene is abysmal, and disjointed)

In a way, SHAFT is trying to be too "atypic", which hurt for both budget and the actual cohesion.
Quote:
Edit: I must say, though... that ED, and the "transition" that proceeded it, may have been an extremely odd choice for the material, but it was damn cool. I had to watch the fast-forward sequence frame by frame -- all the good close-up angles missing during the episode were there!
I dunno if i can agree or not about the cool part. The problem is that the last part felt like a sequence of slideshow, instead of "pictures" of the event/situation.
I believe things would have gone MUCH better if they actually used only 3-5 frames, which are separated with smooth black fading.
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Old 2007-10-13, 17:17   Link #257
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Ef would be wonderful if the choices "make sense", as you can see some synergy and such. Which is unfortunately not the case, as i commented above because of the issue with the execution.
Well, for whatever reason, this seems to be the sort of show where the "synergy" is more apparent upon rewatching -- at least for me. Episode 2 seemed very similar to episode 1 in that regard. Though, certainly, the most common trait of experimental cinematography is that opinion about the execution and its success is very rarely "common"; in other words, some will love it, some will hate it, and many won't know what to make of it.

I guess I would say that the "balance" of the elements in tension tends to work for me, but it continues to have a sort of "tentative" feel -- as if all, including the cinematic elements, are leading to some sort of a resolution that has yet to come. The feelings of the characters are conveyed in an almost-distant way -- as if you get a sense of their feelings, but aren't really experiencing it. This is certainly quite different from most anime in the genre, where perhaps the greatest strength is in conveying atmosphere through emotion rather than the other way around. At this point in the story, though, I'm not ready to decide whether that's either good or bad. I'm willing to give it a bit more time to see where they're going with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The problem is that the last part felt like a sequence of slideshow, instead of "pictures" of the event/situation.
I believe things would have gone MUCH better if they actually used only 3-5 frames, which are separated with smooth black fading.
Possibly. The way I took the fast-forward closing sequence is sort of like a "next episode preview". They obviously had a much longer conversation that explained everything in more detail, but it'll probably come back as flashbacks later on or something. So rather than showing pictures of the present situation, they literally were showing a slideshow of scenes to come/unseen. A very unusual strategy, to be sure. While I certainly see the appeal in the 3-5 frame fade approach (I can envision it in my mind), I think it sends a different message (more like "to be continued" as opposed to "it already did continue").
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Old 2007-10-13, 17:22   Link #258
Keruri
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A nice boat reference!? Now that was fast!
About 7:06 where the girl steals the bike (always when a new season begins there is easily a few dozen new names to learn...), she drops a piece of paper, I saw some text on it, I go back and pause, and I almost fell of my chair when I saw what was written on it: "nice boat". It is literally a single frame, blink and miss it. But is that a good sign or a bad...
Could anyone get me a screenshot of this? I'm really bad at taking them myself.
Thanks for the comment; I missed this on my first two run-throughs.

I can sum up this episode in three words: Asou Renji fhghgjdjfkhdkjh. <3 I've been a fangirl for a while, and it's great seeing him animated! *mauled*

I absolutely LOVE the song "Euphoric Field". <3
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Old 2007-10-13, 17:33   Link #259
GipFace
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fly high make it
yet to the new word that i see
some day read my lewd lips

don't look back to the sorrow i left behind
he's my real intonation lie high
i wish you were here and so shall at met my side
eat to be join up to swallow my pride

i have been the killer for my armstripe
to give your love here come the love

in life take it
for me to find yourself in
shining please fill with wishes
fly high make it
yet to the new word that i see
some day so i believe

http://nnl1.com/etc/ef2-op.ogg

And many kittens on the earth have just exploded. I look forward to the fansubs of episode 2 to see how they'll interpret this wreck.
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Old 2007-10-13, 18:18   Link #260
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Heh - I'm looking forward to reading the official lyrics to see what was ideally supposed to be said (though it certainly sounds like what you wrote). It almost seems to set a new standard for nonsensical Engrish in music.
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