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Old 2007-11-04, 02:51   Link #481
HeeroX
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Ep 5

I didn't like it like the others eps, but still good.

Spoiler for ep5:
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Old 2007-11-04, 03:03   Link #482
Kagami_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Spoiler for episode 5:
I think ef has the best OP & ED theme this season. I'm not feeling the characters yet though but I do like most of them. The characters arent exactly original (Twin sisters with purple hair? Hiiragi sisters and Fujibayashi sisters) I really like the visuals/artistic touches here and there.. its so colourful! The beach scene with Chihiro and Renji was sweet but I agree with Maceart.. whats up Renji's non-manliness?! lol he ruins the moment whenever he talks. I do like how they emphasize each characters likes and dream like Hiro loves to draw and be a manga artist, Renji loves to write novels, and how Kyousuke likes taking pictures and wants to film a movie of his own, etc.
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Old 2007-11-04, 04:04   Link #483
serenade_beta
マジ天使
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeeroX View Post
Spoiler for ep5:
No one said she can't develop her "head" anymore. It's a memory problem.
Well, I'm not an expert on the brain or anything, so I won't bother saying much...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeeroX View Post
Spoiler for ep5:
What?
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Old 2007-11-04, 05:52   Link #484
HeeroX
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If you saw the movie "50 First Dates" you would see that Chihiros's case is somewhat the same thing.

Another movie with anterograde amnesia (short-term memory loss) case is "Memento" which is more realistic.
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Old 2007-11-04, 06:12   Link #485
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Kagami_ View Post
Whats the url for the website?
http://www.ef-memo.com/
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Old 2007-11-04, 06:13   Link #486
Deathkillz
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her diary is her "development" if you look here. by keeping her memories in a book it means that she isnt resetting as she will always be reading back and "remembering".

ep 5 -
Spoiler:


edit: yea yea carry on laughing
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Last edited by Deathkillz; 2007-11-04 at 06:34.
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Old 2007-11-04, 06:26   Link #487
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
ep 5 -
Spoiler:
Spoiler for ep5:

Quote:
her dairy is her "development" if you look here. by keeping her memories in a book it means that she isnt resetting as she will always be reading back and "remembering".
Misspelled "diary" for "dairy". >_<
Funny, though.
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Old 2007-11-04, 14:07   Link #488
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart View Post
...Anyway, the direction in this series is pretty bad... he doesn't seem to have the flair to tie together multiple love angles togethers as seamlessly as Kimikiss does, and the camera angles doesn't much help when the feelings of the characters aren't portrayed well.... So far it's been a trainwreck of missed character plot developments and forced twists.
As I wrote before, I just don't see it this way at all -- although I know that lots of people with otherwise good taste do. This show gives me stronger emotions than KimiKiss by far. For me, the characters' emotions are portrayed excellently well, largely though voice, music and art, especially the artful way camera angles are used. And I'm not criticizing KimiKiss, which is a good show -- but not as good as this show, for me.

How can you reject Renji for his "non-manliness" yet accept the incredible hesitancy of both male protagonists in KimiKiss? I don't find Renji annoying in the least. He has embraced the object of his affection, made a point of meeting her every day, asked her for a kiss, found out more about her than she knows herself, started helping her do something she wants, etc. Maybe it's just his voice that makes him seem more unmanly than he really is.

"Missed character plot developments" means you expected something that didn't happen. Personally, I find many of the criticisms of this show to be people rejecting the very things that make the show great because they aren't the standard things they expect to find, and then accusing the show of being cliched -- which is the opposite of the truth for such a daringly novel show.

Someone losing their memory may have happened before, but that doesn't make it "cliched" if they can find a new and effective way of showing it. Which they certainly do, in my opinion. I can feel Chihiro's depression and panic, as well as her dawning joy. Since it is feelings like this that I watch anime for, that helps elevate this show pretty high, for me. At least so far. We'll see how it evolves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz
Spoiler for ep5:
Spoiler for Miyako's personality from ep5:
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Old 2007-11-04, 14:15   Link #489
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Spoiler for Miyako's personality from ep5:
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-11-04, 14:30   Link #490
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For me, ef's true beauty lies with the writing of the show --- which i believe is expected when you look at the source material/setting and story. It's the wonderful SHAFT touch & Tenmon music that makes my thoughts on this even stronger. I know for a fact i'm not the only one here who has this thought.

It's truly a wonderful series, and one of my favorites from this season. How this series is handled is what i love to see --- though that doesn't mean i've got nothing against over shows like Kimikiss --- another show i am highly enjoyable at the moment.
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Old 2007-11-04, 14:39   Link #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Personally, I find many of the criticisms of this show to be people rejecting the very things that make the show great because they aren't the standard things they expect to find, and then accusing the show of being cliched -- which is the opposite of the truth for such a daringly novel show.
I think there's some element of truth to that. Like anything experimental/different, I think this show exposes/reveals something about the way everyone thinks. In particular, how does each person's brain "digest" the stories told in anime? What are the cues they pick up on? What makes things "work" or "click"? What are the most important factors for each person? I've probably said it before, but I think the wide-ranging reactions you're seeing to this show tell you more about the personalities of the people speaking than about the show itself. That's what's most interesting about polarizing shows; neither side is either right or wrong, they just perceive (and prioritize) things differently.
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Old 2007-11-04, 15:37   Link #492
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
...Like anything experimental/different, I think this show exposes/reveals something about the way everyone thinks. In particular, how does each person's brain "digest" the stories told in anime? What are the cues they pick up on? What makes things "work" or "click"? What are the most important factors for each person? I've probably said it before, but I think the wide-ranging reactions you're seeing to this show tell you more about the personalities of the people speaking than about the show itself. That's what's most interesting about polarizing shows; neither side is either right or wrong, they just perceive (and prioritize) things differently.
I find I can't give you a cookie, so I'll post my thoughts instead. I keep finding that we all see things differently. No-one likes the same selection of shows. Even when I find myself agreeing with someone fairly often, sometimes we see things differently. I can't help sometimes using the words "good" or "best" show, but "favorite" show is really more accurate. I hold out hope that there can be some objective standard, or at least a partial one, but it's extremely elusive. I guess we just have to keep trying to express what we like and do not like about a show, and trying to analyze what's going on in it. And in ourselves.
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Old 2007-11-04, 16:30   Link #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I hold out hope that there can be some objective standard, or at least a partial one, but it's extremely elusive.
You know, that's just it -- I think that's the "big secret" of anime fandom (and perhaps life?). There is no objective standard. People who base their opinions off of what's popular or what other people think are only shortchanging their own capacity to think and make decisions for themselves. No one out there sees things the exact same way as anyone else; if everyone approached everything with an open mind, there's no telling what they might find themselves interested in. (Of course, I realize that time is limited, and everyone needs ways to prioritize without having to try absolutely everything. Categoric association is essential for survival, even, but the truth is that nothing in life fits perfectly into the little boxes we make for ourselves, and even less in the boxes we allow others to make for us.)

Anime is a form of communication, and like any communication, it's a two-way process -- a dialog between the authors and the viewers. It's a matter of finding a show that most closely speaks to you (in your own, completely unique "voice"), so that you in turn can respond to it. Or, put another way, searching for one's favourite anime is a lot like searching for a resonant frequency -- it's all about the way the instrument and note work together; neither the note nor the instrument are important or relevant on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I guess we just have to keep trying to express what we like and do not like about a show, and trying to analyze what's going on in it. And in ourselves.
Yup, right on. If we understand ourselves and each other, eventually we can come to both appreciate the things that make us similar, and treasure the things that make us distinct. And hopefully, somewhere along the way, we can all learn that things like anime are neither "good" nor "bad"; it's simply a matter of what "resonates" with each of us.


(...Well that was very philosophical, but I suppose we should get back to the show too... )
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Old 2007-11-04, 18:23   Link #494
Sorrow-K
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Wow, hasn't this turned into a philosophical discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
As I wrote before, I just don't see it this way at all -- although I know that lots of people with otherwise good taste do. This show gives me stronger emotions than KimiKiss by far. For me, the characters' emotions are portrayed excellently well, largely though voice, music and art, especially the artful way camera angles are used. And I'm not criticizing KimiKiss, which is a good show -- but not as good as this show, for me.
While the comparisons will almost certainly be apt down the road, I think it's probably a little unfair to compare the two shows just now, past the superficial "they're both romances" and "they both have lots of intertwined subplots", since KimiKiss is very much still in its early stages, and will certainly have a much slower pace than this since it has a lot more episodes to play with. If KimiKiss is any good (and I think it will almost certainly be, unless it shoots itself in the foot somehow), we'll see the best from it in a few months time. Ef is pretty close to getting right into full swing, but KimiKiss is still very much in its setting up stages. But hey, I agree, right now they're both good shows, and both have tonnes of potential for good drama and romance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Someone losing their memory may have happened before, but that doesn't make it "cliched" if they can find a new and effective way of showing it. Which they certainly do, in my opinion. I can feel Chihiro's depression and panic, as well as her dawning joy. Since it is feelings like this that I watch anime for, that helps elevate this show pretty high, for me. At least so far. We'll see how it evolves.
The memory thing is a cliche we've seen many times before in lots of different medium, but this is one of the few occasions I can remember in anime we're they've dealt with constant short term memory loss in a totally serious fashion. The standard cliche is that someone contracts amnesia and then has to figure out a way to get their memories back. This is slightly different, and goes past that... Chihiro and Renji have accepted (I think) that there's no way to get Chihiro's memories back, now they have to deal with it somehow, both as separate people and as a couple together. Sure, something similar may have been done elsewhere before, but it's not all that common, and this setup probably has greater potential for drama than the alternative (since the alternative generally implies that there is some way to get the memories back, they just have to find it).
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Old 2007-11-05, 23:42   Link #495
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Well get more filling in on the background of Chihiro-Hirono-Kei. Could see Kei's jealously at the alligning of interests and time Chihiro and Hiro spent together. Since she could write up the stories and he draw it wasn't bad at all. Terrible that when Kei took a slightly selfish route to spend some time alone with Hiro this kind of thing happens. Probably does feel too guilty to step the relationship beyond what it is because of Chihiro's state being her fault.

Guess bad cooking is genetic . At least Renji can cook up pretty well and his mom is pretty fun too. The poor food got quite the beating as he had to listen to his mom go on. Her being his sister is crazy talk...so of course she counters with wife.

Quite the serious talk with Miyako and Kei. Guess no need to be as energetic as around Hiro if he isn't around. With Kei she just put her solid view on it and what should be important. On one side Hiro wants to draw and that career path doesn't necessarily rely on stretching himself so much. He's already got his foot in the door as a manga artist so has to make a choice there. Kei obviously wants him to get as good an education as possible. Guess Miyako at any rate was hoping for something more interesting like 'back off, Hiro's mine' or something like that.

With the story getting started we'll see how things go in the next episodes.
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Old 2007-11-06, 00:42   Link #496
Ascaloth
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Watched the Conclave-Mendoi sub of Episode 5.

SHAFT's take on ef may not have left a good first impression on me, but I find that it's slowly growing on me. The Shinbo-WTFness makes a lot more sense now than it did at first, and the characters are really starting to come into their own.

I like the Chihiro-Renji storyline the most so far in the whole thing, and Chihiro's "yes I can cook, but the results of my cooking should not be eaten" line is something I'll like to try one day.
Joking aside, there's just so much emotion and meaning, that I can't help but be drawn to it. That image of Chihiro, being tied to a 12-hour circle....that's what I'd call a case of Shinbo-WTFness done right. The symbolism inherent in that scene is just astounding.

On the Hirono-Kei-Miyako storyline, the way people have been talking about Miyako made me go into the episode expecting her to achieve a "bitching level-up".
By the end of the Kei-Miyako confrontation though, I actually found myself on Miyako's side instead. Sure she was being a bitch, but the way I see it, she made so much sense that I can't help but feel that Kei was simply asking for it. There's a lot about Kei that I dislike, and Miyako's bitching, instead of causing me to dislike her, instead had me nodding at every point she made. I'd say Miyako is the better match for Hiro, since she's the one who actually understands him best.

Very nice episode. I feel more and more glad that I didn't drop this at the first two episodes.
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Old 2007-11-06, 01:32   Link #497
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
You know, that's just it -- I think that's the "big secret" of anime fandom (and perhaps life?). There is no objective standard. People who base their opinions off of what's popular or what other people think are only shortchanging their own capacity to think and make decisions for themselves. No one out there sees things the exact same way as anyone else; if everyone approached everything with an open mind, there's no telling what they might find themselves interested in. (Of course, I realize that time is limited, and everyone needs ways to prioritize without having to try absolutely everything. Categoric association is essential for survival, even, but the truth is that nothing in life fits perfectly into the little boxes we make for ourselves, and even less in the boxes we allow others to make for us.)
Wow I really like your POV, but I'll try not to limit my own capacity over it

Someone earlier mentioned something about Chihiro having the mind of a 13 year old or something like that. I did a bit of reading about this type of amnesia as the whole Chihiro story really interests me and it seems that they can still learn skills. So they can learn to play the guitar, but they can't remember when they learnt it. That's pretty crazy in my opinion, as it would be like they wake up one day and find that they can play Chopin: Etude 10-4. It would be like someone downloaded the skill aka Matrix style but really they had to work hard at it. Actually that sounds quite sad thinking about it as lots of times you get appreciation of the new skill because you remember how hard it was to learn it. Poor Chihiro!

Spoiler for thoughts of epi5:
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Old 2007-11-06, 01:49   Link #498
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i guess they gonna drift the story away from the game
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Old 2007-11-06, 04:10   Link #499
Kaoru Chujo
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Further to your thoughts about Renji, grey_moon, I was re-watching the first couple of episodes and I had forgotten that whole passage where he was walking alone and thinking that he always expected to become someone of special talent, to be a prince rescuing a princess, but he felt as if he had failed and didn't know what to do next. So the whole relationship is a fulfillment of his needs and wishes, just as it is of Chihiro's. This is pretty romantic, it seems to me -- as well as being fairly normal.

It's amazing that Chihiro's illness is not just a fantasy, a powerful notion, but they might be portraying it almost accurately. Truth is stranger than fiction.

I have a lot of sympathy for Kei. Feelings are tenacious, you can't just wish them away. But I think she will find a way out by gaining feelings for someone new, which will seem impossible to her and then feel magical. Unless Hiro actually comes "home" to her.

Hiro and Miya are brilliantly autonomous and brilliantly irresponsible. Artists. I don't think Hiro is drawing for the sake of praise from others. He may have been stimulated to try by Kei and Chihiro, but I think he's selfishly doing what he loves and is good at and is addicted to and makes money at. Like an artist.
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Old 2007-11-06, 04:51   Link #500
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
So the whole relationship is a fulfillment of his needs and wishes, just as it is of Chihiro's. This is pretty romantic, it seems to me -- as well as being fairly normal.
Normal? It's potentially a recipe for disaster. What happens when Chihiro gets her story written and Renji becomes her white knight? When the wishes have been fulfilled, there'd better be something else there to hold them together.

Quote:
Hiro and Miya are brilliantly autonomous and brilliantly irresponsible. Artists. I don't think Hiro is drawing for the sake of praise from others. He may have been stimulated to try by Kei and Chihiro, but I think he's selfishly doing what he loves and is good at and is addicted to and makes money at. Like an artist.
+1
The color missing from his world indeed.
And Kei created this monster, but let someone else feed it. Bad move. Poor kid is in for a bad ride.
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