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Old 2007-12-16, 05:29   Link #1201
bungoman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Spoiler for ep9+10:

Spoiler:
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Old 2007-12-16, 06:11   Link #1202
SuperKnuckles
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Apparently, the newest episode re-used some of the footage from the game's OP. Which would normally be object of scorn, but not this time.

That scene was so beautiful, I don't care how about the modus operandi.

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Originally Posted by hadora View Post
Well I usually don't post in this forum but I'm going to make an exception for EF since this is my favorite this season besides Clannad.
Episode 11 was great like usual and I'm really liking what Shaft is doing but EF has some problem finding its public in Japan.
2,826 DVDs sold for the first week, that's pretty weak so for those who like EF, try to support it by buying the first DVD since it would be sad to see another great work not selling well after Simoun last year.
I don't know.. the sales seem to vary from site to site and in some places, Ef seems to be selling well. Not sure nationally though. And yes, it's sad to see such great shows go under the radar like this.

Knowing ADV's habit of picking up SHAFT and KyoAni shows, hopefully they'll release Clannad and Ef soon enough. Ef is one of those shows where I wouldn't hesitate on supporting with real money spent on an actual DVD.
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Old 2007-12-16, 09:43   Link #1203
darkchibi07
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Actually, ef- a tale of memories did pretty well DVD-wise since the first volume made it to the Top 10 of the Oricon ratings:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ecember-5-11/2
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Old 2007-12-16, 10:01   Link #1204
hadora
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2007/12/17付 DVD TOP100

**6 *5 *13,656 194,471 **4 レミーのおいしいレストラン
*18 -- **6,256 **6,256 **1 DRAGON BALL #25
*20 -- **6,085 **6,085 **1 DRAGON BALL #26
*26 -- **5,182 **5,182 **1 地球へ… Vol.5〈完全生産限定版〉
*35 30 **3,863 116,770 **8 シュレック3 スペシャル・エディション
*36 -- **3,810 **3,810 **1 D.Gray-man 11
*42 28 **3,453 *32,146 **7 象の背中-旅立つ日- (初回特別限定版)
*45 21 **3,190 *20,111 **3 劇場版 名探偵コナン 紺碧の棺
*49 -- **2,826 **2,826 **1 ef - a tale of memories.1〈初回限定版〉
*52 -- **2,653 **2,653 **1 映画ドラえもん のび太の新魔界大冒険 7人の魔法使い スペシャル版
*57 -- **2,486 **2,486 **1 彩雲国物語 セカンドシリーズ 第4巻〈初回限定版〉
*60 -- **2,275 **2,275 **1 NARUTO-ナルト-疾風伝 風影奪還の章 5
*64 15 **2,122 **9,002 **2 家庭教師ヒットマンREBORN! vsヴァリアー編 Battle.1
*69 -- **2,036 **2,036 **1 神曲奏界ポリフォニカ Sec.06 初回限定版
*71 -- **1,972 **1,972 **1 映画ドラえもん のび太の新魔界大冒険 7人の魔法使い
*72 -- **1,962 **1,962 **1 ONE PIECE ワンピース エイトスシーズン ウォーターセブン篇 piece.12
*74 *6 **1,870 *18,160 **2 おおきく振りかぶって 6〈完全生産限定版〉
*82 87 **1,582 773,235 311 となりのトトロ
*84 40 **1,538 *10,698 **3 映画クレヨンしんちゃん 嵐を呼ぶ 歌うケツだけ爆弾!
*89 *8 **1,466 *13,758 **2 銀魂 シーズン其ノ弐 05
*93 *4 **1,419 *19,086 **2 天元突破グレンラガン 5〈完全生産限定版〉
*96 78 **1,362 *60,327 *46 The World of GOLDEN EGGS Vol.01

Anyways the reason it entered the top 10 of Oricon was because it was released in a pretty "weak" week, these results are pretty much the most accurate you can get.
So don't forget to support EF, especially if you want a second season.
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Old 2007-12-16, 10:11   Link #1205
golthin
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Originally Posted by bungoman View Post
Spoiler:
the problem here is that Hiro didn't get to see her trueself, he got a small glimpse when she asked him not to go after kei, but he didn't see the 99 messages on his fun. Big mistake from Kei,
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Old 2007-12-16, 11:09   Link #1206
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ef - a tale of memories from what I've been seeing mentioned has been an "underrated" series for this season. People are definitely watching it and the reactions have been very good, though this might have slipped under the radar for some.

So yeah, as was mentioned before, we have two sets of stories that haven't been touched at all in this series, so I'm not sure how they will be dealt with. Is it possible that they could do another season/series and go with the two remaining stories?

I've been really enjoying this series for several reasons. The storytelling style is done well with the 3 stories running parallel but dropping hints for their connections to each other, the presentation of important moments are emphasized heavily with the visuals, and the individual stories themselves are about their chance first meetings, developing relationships, the pain and conflict, and resolution that each set of stories runs.

We've finished out Miyako and Hiro's story, and it looks like Chihiro and Renji's is on its way of wrapping up as well. Only two episodes to go!

Last edited by aquastar831; 2007-12-16 at 11:25.
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Old 2007-12-16, 12:29   Link #1207
golthin
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Originally Posted by aquastar831 View Post

We've finished out Miyako and Hiro's story, and it looks like Chihiro and Renji's is on its way of wrapping up as well. Only two episodes to go!
Thank goodness they didn't try to hook Kei and Kyousuke pretty fast, supposedly that is another chapter in the game that deals with those two.
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Old 2007-12-16, 14:04   Link #1208
rg4619
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Quote:
Anyways the reason it entered the top 10 of Oricon was because it was released in a pretty "weak" week, these results are pretty much the most accurate you can get.
Yep. In general, Top 10 doesn't mean as much as it used to in any Japanese entertainment market (video games, music, DVD). Just making the list doesn't mean a product is particularly successful.

It's really a shame since SHAFT's other series have done well this year.

Quote:
Knowing ADV's habit of picking up SHAFT and KyoAni shows, hopefully they'll release Clannad and Ef soon enough.
I wouldn't bet on it, given the state of the American anime market and the underwhelming sales of AIR. If anything, American distributors are going to be more selective (fewer licenses, more emphasis on guaranteed hits, less attention paid to fansub popularity) about what they release since the market has shown no sign of picking up.
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Old 2007-12-16, 14:37   Link #1209
Keruri
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Episode 11 was fantastic. That's all there is to it. The visuals, storyline, and symbolism all blew me away. Stunning.

I need to get my hands on the soundtrack NOW. My gosh, this series is gorgeous.
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Old 2007-12-16, 15:38   Link #1210
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by hadora View Post
Well I usually don't post in this forum but I'm going to make an exception for EF since this is my favorite this season besides Clannad. Episode 11 was great like usual and I'm really liking what Shaft is doing but EF has some problem finding its public in Japan. 2,826 DVDs sold for the first week, that's pretty weak so for those who like EF, try to support it by buying the first DVD since it would be sad to see another great work not selling well after Simoun last year.
As a huge fan of Simoun, I am getting used to the idea that the best anime don't sell well. Blue Drop is my second favorite this season, and it is not that popular in Japan either (10 threads on 2channel, compared to 26 for ef, and 116 for Clannad).

Why is this show not more popular? Is it that the visual style is too sophisticated for many people? Is it that the emotions are too strong? Is it too hard for people to identify with the characters?
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Old 2007-12-16, 15:43   Link #1211
Skyfall
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I am going to take a guess that the "Shaft art" might be a major turnoff. I remember being horribly put off after the initial episodes, almost to the point of dropping it. I still don't like it, but at least it isn't as horribly intrusive as it was at first and sometimes it even works for me, while at other times i still want to strangle the animators (Kei's shower scene for example). I can easily see why people would be put off by the presentation.
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Old 2007-12-16, 15:54   Link #1212
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Why is this show not more popular? Is it that the visual style is too sophisticated for many people? Is it that the emotions are too strong? Is it too hard for people to identify with the characters?
As skyfall mentioned, it is rather a matter of taste, not really anything sophisiticated or intellectual.
Frankly, I almost loathed this style as well at the start (while I do like the metaphor of colors, the intrusive black and whites elements randomly put in various "school scenes" were screaming eyesour in my books).

The emotions are also a major part of personal tastes. As for me, I feel that most of the time, it was utterly downplayed because of the said distractive art shift and especially the annoying far camera pan. I swear I wanted to shut my screen off sometimes, as it wouldn't change much if you don't see anything (I can't comprehend how a scene can have an optimal impact if you can't even see the characters' facial expressions. Voices don't do the whole job, we aren't in a DramaCD).

These points are the only controversial points I believe. The story itself isn't anything special compared to the extensive genre we got here. I don't pretend Ef doesn't have anything unique in its story, but that series doesn't have a pure "originality" flag here and there.
Its true strength and weakness are the execution and art, which obviously play a lot on the mood, attractive aspect, and plot development.
The last and "minor" point might be the budget allocation as I don't really get why it is so unbalanced: from one side, we have "too" outstanding BG and all, but in the same time, we have poor and almost lame animation (namely saccaded mouth animations, leading to false "lip desynch", doll-like walking motions and very poor "random color full screen transition").

While I enjoyed pretty much the show, the start was a real pain for me because it was "not conventional enough". I don't want all series to be alike all the time, and I aknowledge the effort of originality. But is is basically because they were so in the left field that it was really a turn off in several occasions.

Frankly, Quality aside, i felt that if ef was executed just like how 11 was, it would be a real overkill (positively) in my books. They didn't need absurd "original" stunt to deploy the plot and the feelings and episode 11 (and i guess most of 10) proved they don't need these.
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Old 2007-12-16, 16:11   Link #1213
hadora
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Well I've read some pretty interesting complaints on several japanese blogs that could explain the reason EF is not that popular.
First there's the fan of the game who aren't happy with the adaptation accusing Shaft of overplaying the drama.
Then there's some who don't like the style of the anime, the fact that every scenes and dialogues in the anime has to be "meaningful" make the anime too theatrical for some, one of the complaint I've read was that the characters act too much like "actors" in the story if I can make myself understood.
Of course EF also has a small but pretty rabid fanbase in Japan too.
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Old 2007-12-16, 16:13   Link #1214
rg4619
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SHAFT shows generally sell well, so visual style may not be the sole problem. Of course, it's also possible that game adaptation fans don't watch Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei or Negima!?.

I'd guess that there're more fundamental stumbling blocks, such as the underwhelming popularity of the original (as with other minori games, ef -the first tale sold well, but there was no lasting excitement) and the liberties taken with the adaptation (might turn off people who truly loved the source).

Quote:
the fact that every scenes and dialogues in the anime has to be "meaningful" make the anime too theatrical for some, one of the complaint I've read was that the characters act too much like "actors" in the story if I can make myself understood.
A stage drama (as opposed to conventional TV/film), you mean? That's how I feel about ef, although it's a unique strength for me.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2007-12-16 at 16:19. Reason: Please don't double post -- just edit the existing one
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Old 2007-12-16, 16:29   Link #1215
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I'd guess that there're more fundamental stumbling blocks, such as the underwhelming popularity of the original (as with other minori games, ef -the first tale sold well, but there was no lasting excitement) and the liberties taken with the adaptation (might turn off people who truly loved the source).
Yup, I think that's probably it. Japanese DVD sales are driven primarily by "brand power". Arguably "lesser" shows from a more popular franchise often sell better than "greater" shows from a less-enduring one. Plus, English fandom approaches every show with a "clean slate" (since a lot of people are first-exposed to a franchise through the anime), but we shouldn't underestimate the difference prior exposure makes in the Japanese market. It totally changes your point of view. I think this is a show more likely to be rented than purchased by all but the core group of fans. (Actually, what I'll be interested in watching is the sales trend. A good but under-the-radar show will often see it's sales stay level or even grow slightly over the course of the volumes. A show that was selling more on brand name than quality will often see sales drop sharply. We'll see what happens...)

And I do agree about the show being more akin to stage than film. A very interesting comparison, and I agree -- that's what makes it unique to me.
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Old 2007-12-16, 17:17   Link #1216
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Lots of interesting ideas. I do think "brand power" is a big factor. I also think that the "theatricality" of the piece may turn people off as much as it turns me on. This is a dense and intense show, unlike many anime. I also think that lots of anime fans are not interested in real human emotion, with which this show is overflowing, and which is what I look for in an anime.

As for art, I'm sticking with "sophisticated." If the art style turns you off, please look at more modern art and watch more good film. In my opinion, just about every bit of that complex art has an emotional meaning in the story. When we don't see characters' heads when they are talking, it conveys something about the uneasy situation. When we see them on the train platform across a littered field, it is as if they are surrounded with the detritus of a crippled memory. These things give us feelings, if we are open to them, that may not be conscious but that give the story depth. But I do agree that it's a matter of individual preference.

I think that Oonuma Shin probably didn't get as much money to do this show as Shinbou would have, so he had to come up with ways of saving money. Challenge and response: he responded by turning that necessity into a virtue, in my opinion.
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Old 2007-12-16, 17:37   Link #1217
hadora
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I don't think the "brand power" played that much of a factor, Shaft is really liked and famous, PPD, Moonphase and even Negima?! and SZS were quite successful and I'm actually quite surprised than EF isn't working.
A lot of the comments I've read in 2ch and some blogs from people who were turned off by the show said that the emotions felt too "fake" for them, too scripted.
Well it's interesting to read all these opinions and see the usual strife in the japanese fandom.
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Old 2007-12-16, 17:43   Link #1218
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Originally Posted by hadora View Post
I don't think the "brand power" played that much of a factor, Shaft is really liked and famous, PPD, Moonphase and even Negima?! and SZS were quite successful and I'm actually quite surprised than EF isn't working.
Well, I meant brand power of minori and the ef game. My point was: they may not actually be judging the anime with a blank slate the way the English fan community is.
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Old 2007-12-16, 17:46   Link #1219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, I meant brand power of minori and the ef game. My point was: they may not actually be judging the anime with a blank slate the way the English fan community is.
Not like we have a choice not being surrounded by such things. Western viewers don't have the luxury to be too pick on "brands" and stuff
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Old 2007-12-16, 17:49   Link #1220
hadora
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I agree there's some people who judge anime that way but fans in japan aren't as mindless than you think they are and a lot of them don't play eroges anyways, I guess it's a matter of personnal prefference in the end.
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