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Old 2007-12-23, 02:21   Link #1301
Maids! Maids! Maids!
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Old 2007-12-23, 05:45   Link #1302
gaguri
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The thing I always loved about Renji x Chihiro arc was the use of imagery (which are also presented elegantl fortunately) to tell a story metaphorically. Her ending, how the god could not clearly see her picture, no matter how many times she painted, how hard she tried...****, that was beautiful. It doesn't tell us through words, but through imagery, it makes us find its link to Chihiro's life and use our imagination to paint a picture of just how much she enjoyed being with Renji, yet how much she suffered and was tormented by the fact that she could not recall those moments, no matter how many times she tried. I think these techniques aren't used enough by visual audio story mediums, especially anime, since anime has the freedom to present visuals only limited by the animators imagination. Of course, this applies to numerous other imagery that have been used in their arc, such as the very memorable one involving Chihiro being chained to a restricted circle, just before Renji's hand comes out of the dark and breaks her chain. Well, or at least that's what she thought at that point of time...poor girl *sob*. Actually I should feel more sorry for Renji. At least she won't remember it. I wonder how they're going to resolve this though. If that note was really all that was left of her connection to Renji, then there is no way Renji can bring Chihiro who loved him back.
...unless she magically recovers all her lost memories with the power of love as Renji drops his tears on her lap o gawd

If I have some things to complain about the latest episode, the first half of the episode they spent on dating was bit too sweet for my taste, and they hammered the message harder than necessary at the very end. I guess it's my problem though, since I last complained also about Chihiro confessing to Renji about her memory disorder. In my opinion, the show did more than wonderful job of getting its message through these beautiful imagery without saying anything directly in words, and repeating them several minutes later bluntly in a 'shocking' manner doesn't shock me at all.
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Old 2007-12-23, 06:50   Link #1303
SuperKnuckles
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shocking, eh? I never thought it was like that at all. Even with such blunt use of imagery, I never saw what Shaft was doing as pretentious. Other than merely being blunt about it. Shaft style.
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Old 2007-12-23, 07:22   Link #1304
gaguri
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I never said Shaft was being pretentious. Being pretentious means that they were trying to appear deep, and seem as if they had complex meanings when they don't. I never said anything about their content. I only mentioned the way they tried to deliver emotional impact and my response to it.

I'm talking spefically about the end of episode of 11 and 3 (I think it was 3, maybe I'm wrong, anyway I'm talking about the episode where Chihiro finally reveals to Renji about her memory condition). Looking at the last scene of those episodes, it doesn't matter if you think they were shocking or not, you can not deny the fact that they tried to be shocking from the way they ended the tensions that were being slowly being developed throughout those episodes.

Although they have succeeded having strong impacts on many viewers (as evident by reactions from this thread), I am left unsatisfied simply because they already achieved everything much earlier to me through wonderful imagery, and the final climatic acts were merely reiterations put in less subtle ways.

I hope this is easier to understand.

*edit: I suppose I should actually give examples to make it easier. In episode 11, Chihiro's story talked about how the god destroyed all the paintings she drew. That got to me, because we all know how much she loved Renji. And we also know how much she hated her losing memory of those, and how hard she tried many times to recapture those feelings, heightened by the imagery that parallels this. So I had an impression that she had already burnt all the memory of him (i.e. her diary) before Renji even started to read the ending. After a bit of talking, she finally does what I thought she has already done; destroy her memories by getting rid of the diary. Yes, it was presented in a dramatic way, and it was dramatic, but can you at least see why I am left unsatisfied? Likewise, at the end of episode 3 (or four, whatever), we were given clues here and there, from episode 1 to 3 about Chihiro's memory defect (although we had no idea of knowing if it was in such a strange case). And at the end, Chihiro suddenly reveals that she has memory loss problem. I guess the creators wanted me to be moved like Renji, but I couldn't, simply because they told simple things I already knew of in a 'in your face' manner. Or in a what you'd like to call 'Shaft' style.

Last edited by gaguri; 2007-12-23 at 07:41.
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Old 2007-12-23, 08:18   Link #1305
Deathkillz
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I guess you just don't like how the story telling specifically points to the situation even when it has already done so through imagery hints. I get where you are coming from and perhaps for you they did dilute the effect a bit when we can see where the story is leading up to already from all the hints...but for me, there is nothing like actually having solid proof that she has memory loss or she has killed her diary. Even when we can see that unfolding already - the act of her actually doing it is just a confirmation rather than guesswork "will she do it?, because she might not in a silly world
Maybe the point was overstressed for you.
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Old 2007-12-23, 10:34   Link #1306
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It's such a shame this didn't get it's own forum. This really had more potential on having large image threads! There are so many shots that are so freakin' gorgeous!
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Old 2007-12-23, 11:14   Link #1307
whip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Yes the appearance of Motsu was quite the treat --- i wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Shinbo who asked for that.

Edit: I'm not sure if it's been covered yet, though has anyone come across the connection of the OP title Euphoric Field, and the episode titles?

1. eve
2. upon a time
3. paradox
4. honestly
5. outline
6. rain
7. I...
8. clear color
9. forget me not
10. I'm here
11. ever forever
12. love

All we're missing is the 'd'..
The last D is in Episode 12 at 15:30
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Old 2007-12-23, 11:31   Link #1308
tabun
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Originally Posted by darkchibi07 View Post
It's such a shame this didn't get it's own forum. This really had more potential on having large image threads! There are so many shots that are so freakin' gorgeous!
Indeed! I think I might very well rewatch this show after ep.12 and maybe come up with some sigs/avatars, although the better quality images would definately have to come from the eroge (which is sad in a way).

Looking forward to ep.12, and the d

Edit: also, thanks Maids! for the pics! Much appreciated!
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Old 2007-12-23, 11:33   Link #1309
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This is so why I need to learn Japanese language. I'm so envious of people who saw and understand episode 12.
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Old 2007-12-23, 11:36   Link #1310
golthin
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Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
This is so why I need to learn Japanese language. I'm so envious of people who saw and understand episode 12.
the sub will be out pretty soon. E-F memories is an easy to understand show, so the subs should be out soon. I hope that because it has a little different opening it doesn't make too long for people that needs the sub.
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Old 2007-12-23, 13:10   Link #1311
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Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
Although they have succeeded having strong impacts on many viewers (as evident by reactions from this thread), I am left unsatisfied simply because they already achieved everything much earlier to me through wonderful imagery, and the final climatic acts were merely reiterations put in less subtle ways. [...] I guess the creators wanted me to be moved like Renji, but I couldn't, simply because they told simple things I already knew of in a 'in your face' manner. Or in a what you'd like to call 'Shaft' style.
Ah - now this is interesting. I know what you mean. You're quite correct that, in fact, many many parts of the story (especially Chihiro's story) were being told twice: first as a metaphor, and then in "reality". I think the main reason they did this, to be honest, is because a lot of people don't understand metaphors until they're applied in an example. It's only when they do the "in your face" that a lot (most?) viewers go "Aha... so that's what that meant..."

That being said, even for people who are more receptive to metaphors, I think the show did a clever thing. Because of the metaphorical foreshadowing, I wouldn't say I was "shocked" by any of the events in Chihiro's story (though sometimes the exact details of the application weren't clear). I don't even know if being "shocked" was the point, or not. I would say that it was really the presentation and delivery of those scenes that made them work for me. Something about the dialog and the accompanying visuals made the application as beautiful and poetic as the metaphor; it was just a different form of poetry. So even though it was a more blunt reiteration of the metaphor, it felt like it completed the loop and tied everything together. In the balance of the show, I think everything came together very well.
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Old 2007-12-23, 14:49   Link #1312
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by whip View Post
The last D is in Episode 12 at 15:30
As you can see, i made that post before Episode 12 aired. I even mentioned the last D in my post about the episode.
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Old 2007-12-23, 17:40   Link #1313
gaguri
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That being said, even for people who are more receptive to metaphors, I think the show did a clever thing. Because of the metaphorical foreshadowing, I wouldn't say I was "shocked" by any of the events in Chihiro's story (though sometimes the exact details of the application weren't clear). I don't even know if being "shocked" was the point, or not. I would say that it was really the presentation and delivery of those scenes that made them work for me. Something about the dialog and the accompanying visuals made the application as beautiful and poetic as the metaphor; it was just a different form of poetry. So even though it was a more blunt reiteration of the metaphor, it felt like it completed the loop and tied everything together. In the balance of the show, I think everything came together very well.
I wouldn't say clever, but yes, they are very pretty and that alone nearly always earns many many points in my book.
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Old 2007-12-23, 22:37   Link #1314
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I haven't watched the last episode yet, but I saw the last episodes OP and it made me shiver in excitement.

Can someone compile all the passwords for me? <3
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Old 2007-12-23, 23:34   Link #1315
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
...Although they have succeeded having strong impacts on many viewers (as evident by reactions from this thread), I am left unsatisfied simply because they already achieved everything much earlier to me through wonderful imagery, and the final climatic acts were merely reiterations put in less subtle ways....
You make a very interesting point, but it didn't strike me that way. I wouldn't say "less subtle" but "more concrete." I saw the metaphorical expressions as foreshadowing and preparing our hearts, but without the final concrete expression, the symbolic expression alone would have been too thin and unemotional for me. Intellectual, perhaps, rather than fully dramatic.

In fact, I see the pattern you describe as part of the high artistry of this show. But of course, we all respond differently.
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Old 2007-12-23, 23:57   Link #1316
SeedFreedom
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Ya, i realize that the anime is finished already, but i only finished ep 10 now and... ehh. Still cant feel sympathy for Kei, however this episode has made me hate all of the other characters in this arc. They all felt so stupid and selfish. I would have been a Kei supporter, seeing as how her story reminds me so much of Kaede from shuffle, but she deserved every single last bit of what she got, and more. She not only ruined Chihiro, but tried to ruin Miyako and and hirono as well. in the end all her scheming blew up in her face and rightfully so. Also not really happy with the countdown from 100 thing at the end. I think it would have been much smoother if they showed it at every 5 or 4 mins instead of each one. felt it kinda interrupted the flow.

Now I'm just hoping for a good conclusion to the somewhat slow Chihiro and Renji story
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Old 2007-12-24, 02:42   Link #1317
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
I wouldn't say clever, but yes, they are very pretty and that alone nearly always earns many many points in my book.
Personally, I don't see that as being necessarily clever or aesthetically pleasing or whatever. To Chihiro, her diary/novel were the PHYSICAL representation of her emotional being and the fact of her life. For her to throw it away, to either validate or go against her diary and novel, that was the whole basis of the story. I daresay it was actually quite crucial when all is said and done.

That and I do think Shaft did it right in almost all sense of the word.
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Old 2007-12-24, 03:16   Link #1318
gaguri
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I'm sorry...but once again...I'm only talking about the presentation. I'm not going against the fact that Chihiro ripped her diary off as much as the way they hammered it with way too much drama (which in some cases produce opposite effects). Likewise, I didn't go against the fact that Chihiro had a memory loss problem like the one in the film Memento as much as the way they tried to make such a revelation shocking at that particular episode's climax.

So it makes perfect sense for anyone to describe the way they presented these plot elements as clever, stupid, aesthetically pleasing, or whatever. It makes for much more variety in responses than just stating that all these events happened because they are really important to the story (which is as obvious as a sunrise from east *rolls eyes).
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Old 2007-12-24, 04:58   Link #1319
SuperKnuckles
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The thing is, the presentation ties in so much with this show, it's almost impossible to separate it as a storytelling device. I admit that not everyone will probably like it (again, pretty typical of Shaft anime. There's those that love it and there's some who don't like their methodology).

But personally, I think that type of awkward, theatrical portrayal is what sets ef apart from others like it. Not that it automatically makes ef better, but at the very least, undoubtedly different and unique in itself.

As for the plot loopholes, I really wonder if Shaft is responsible for it all. It could've been from the games themselves.
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Old 2007-12-24, 05:26   Link #1320
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Darn. I picked the first 3 eps up on a whim three days ago, and it ended up becoming an unputdownable(I know it's not supposed to be used like this but...you get my drift). The cheese can be overlooked for one hell of a nice story(or 2-3, depending on the viewpoint).

SHAFT's artistry has been a welcome addition for me, having gotten used to it through withstanding all of PPD!, 3 eps of Negima! and of course the obligatory Zetsubou Sensei. Having it used in a fully serious context is really refreshing, so it's all good.

Having watched it in a marathon, it also didn't give me the space to ponder of the plotholes that you guys speak of, which let me go ahead and indulge in the cheese.

Lastly, hot damn, Chihiro+chicky plushies are the cutest thing this season.

Best series of Fall '07!
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