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Old 2008-05-24, 00:52   Link #321
chucky
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For someone who paid for the first season DVD box set, the 2nd season is just completely forgettable.
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Old 2008-05-24, 05:14   Link #322
FireChick
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I don't have any DVDs. I watched them on Veoh before they were removed. Sorry. Hehe.
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Old 2008-06-07, 23:34   Link #323
Sezren
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My opionion on GsG + Sequel:

This is the most per.verted show I have so far seen. And I dont mean the overall story/setup. But rather how it all is portrayed.

Like the government people being the "good guys" (use of music etc. strongly suggests that).
In order to undermine this "goodness" the makers come up with a pretty lame plot about some "evil terrorists".

Noteable was also the "child abuse case" where the abused child is then promptly transformed into a brainwashed to-be-abused slave. That is then considered "being saved" by the characters. One could think that this would be deliberate irony or something like that. But I did not get any such impression as that would also contradict the overall tone.

Another thing is the use of music. If the show would be mostly about the girls it might be possible to consider it appropriate. But especially for the section 2 people it is completely off. As if they would be brainwashed and enslaved like the girls.

The anime seems to be overflowing with messages to the watcher. I did not get any of them however.
Guessing wildly it was supposed to be stuff like "greater good is the right thing" and "conditioning equals love".

Edit: Found some interesting analogy. The girls are "dog-ified". They behave like dogs: They have a master fixation. They are eager to please their master. They "love" their master. Are willing to sacrifice themselves for their master. Their sense of right and wrong is what their master thinks. Their lifespan is (probably) close to a dogs. Etc.
They also are treated like dogs: Like they mustnt go out alone = "lashed". They are used for missions like dogs.
Concluding from that the real message might have something to do with dogs too?

Last edited by Sezren; 2008-06-08 at 01:18. Reason: Added Paragraph about dog analogy.
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Old 2008-06-08, 01:23   Link #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sezren View Post
My opionion on GsG + Sequel:
Would you be referring to the first season as well?
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Old 2008-06-08, 05:45   Link #325
Sezren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
Would you be referring to the first season as well?
Yes. Regarding what I wrote I do not see much difference between the two seasons. Other than that the second season makes certain things more clear. Perhaps this is merely due to the repetitiveness of the themes though.
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Old 2008-06-08, 05:55   Link #326
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sezren View Post
Spoiler for for saving space:
Interesting opinion, but for me the ''moral issue'' was the reason why I start to read the manga , for the ''disturbing'' stuff'' . I thing it is not for giving a message to the watcher/reader but to make him thinking about all that . Don't forget than some of the ''brother'' have issue with the ''conditioning'' .
Speaking of ''dog -ified'' for the girl is inapropriate, they don't get all the same amound of ''conditioning'', this could fitting Rico ( at many level...) but Enrietta and Triella ( especially Triella) get less , and have otherkind of relation with their ''brother''.
( I did not not watch the second season, so all I can is to speak about the first season and the manga .)
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Old 2008-06-08, 06:17   Link #327
Sezren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Interesting opinion, but for me the ''moral issue'' was the reason why I start to read the manga , for the ''disturbing'' stuff'' . I thing it is not for giving a message to the watcher/reader but to make him thinking about all that . Don't forget than some of the ''brother'' have issue with the ''conditioning'' .
At least in season two the use of music does strongly suggest such a message. Like episode 6 somewhere in first half when they actually talk about that. And there are more instances. I also fail to see why the "moral issue" would require any thought (it couldnt be much more clear than it is). And it was clear enough in the early episodes of season 1. Why make the 20+ other episodes then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Speaking of ''dog -ified'' for the girl is inapropriate,
I dont see that. See reasons listet. They act far more like dogs than normal humans. So their conditioning has moved them very strongly towards dog-like acting. Of course they do not suddenly have a dog brain in a human body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
they don't get all the same amound of ''conditioning'', this could fitting Rico ( at many level...) but Enrietta and Triella ( especially Triella) get less , and have otherkind of relation with their ''brother''.
( I did not not watch the second season, so all I can is to speak about the first season and the manga .)
The level of "dogification" does of course differ. However real dogs also differ. Some are more attached to a single master (Henrietta). Others (for example) more to a whole family (Triela).

Edit: Another dog analogy: The master-dog "relationship" is initiated by the master/human choosing/buying the girl/dog. The girl/dog gets no say in the matter. The girl/dog is conditioned by technology/genes to form at some time early in her/its (new) life the lifelong loyalty towards the master/human.

Last edited by Sezren; 2008-06-08 at 06:35. Reason: Added new dog analogy.
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Old 2008-06-08, 07:34   Link #328
G. Zeus
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Can't really speak about season 2 either since haven't seen it yet but from what I do remember, season 1 did a good job of keeping most of the characters in the gray area rather than explicitly painting them as black or white. As mentioned earlier, some of the handlers (specifically Hillshire and Giusepp) had qualms about the system and it's implied that Raballo even dies as a consequence. Also, recall the scene where Franco and Franca encounter Henrietta in Spain Square
Quote:
"I sure am glad that Enrico idiot got arrested. It's girls like her (Henrietta) that we Republican Factionists are out to protect."
-Franca
As for the "dog analogy", I think that's simplifying things too much. Each of the girls have different relationships with their handlers and all of them are rather human.
  • Henrietta and Giusepp (brother and sister)
  • Triella and Hillshire (colleagues)
  • Rico and Jean (master and servant)
  • Angelica and Marco (father and child)
  • Claes and Raballo (student and mentor)
Would Raballo have risked his life for a dog? Would Marco go through the trouble of writing a fairy tale for a dog?

Besides, some of the girls (Triella and Claes at least) are shown to be capable of thinking for themselves, sometimes even acting against the instructions of their hander.
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Last edited by G. Zeus; 2008-06-08 at 08:25.
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Old 2008-06-08, 08:54   Link #329
Sezren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
Can't really speak about season 2 either since haven't seen it yet but from what I do remember, season 1 did a good job of keeping most of the characters in the gray area rather than explicitly painting them as black or white. As mentioned earlier, some of the handlers (specifically Hillshire and Giusepp) had qualms about the system and it's implied that Raballo even dies as a consequence.
They are "PAINTED" as grey - more or less "good guys with some flaws". This (the "painting") is exactly part of what I meant with "most per.verted show". And Raballo "dieing as a consequence" means probably "being killed by the government".

Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
Also, recall the scene where Franco and Franca encounter Henrietta in Spain Square.
I meant the section 2. The "evil terrorists" might have a righteous cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
As for the "dog analogy", I think that's simplifying things too much. Each of the girls have different relationships with their handlers and all of them are rather human.
  • Henrietta and Giusepp (brother and sister)
  • Triella and Hillshire (colleagues)
  • Rico and Jean (master and servant)
  • Angelica and Marco (father and child)
  • Claes and Raballo (student and mentor)
Again: Of course they are not completely turned into two-legged dogs. They still retain human aspects which also leads to the different "colors" of their relationships with their masters.
Edit: The differences might also stem from the masters desires.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
Would Raballo have risked his life for a dog? Would Marco go through the trouble of writing a fairy tale for a dog?
The masters (at least not all of them) do obviously not see them as dogs or machines or whatever. The brainwashing isnt done to the masters. It is done to the girls.

Last edited by Sezren; 2008-06-08 at 08:56. Reason: Difference in relationships.
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Old 2008-06-08, 09:21   Link #330
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Quote:
They are "PAINTED" as grey - more or less "good guys with some flaws". This (the "painting") is exactly part of what I meant with "most per.verted show".
Same with history and politics. What's new?

Quote:
And Raballo "dieing as a consequence" means probably "being killed by the government".
And you were complaining that the government agents (or section 2 at least) were being portrayed as the "good guys"?

Quote:
Edit: The differences might also stem from the masters desires.
Same with parenting. Wanna bring up the nature-versus-nurture debate or something?
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Old 2008-06-08, 10:02   Link #331
Sezren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
And you were complaining that the government agents (or section 2 at least) were being portrayed as the "good guys"?
From what I remember season 2 makes this portrayal more clear. Theres also already plenty of posts by you, me and other people indicating this portrayal. Like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus
season 1 did a good job of keeping most of the characters in the gray area rather than explicitly painting them as black or white. As mentioned earlier, some of the handlers (specifically Hillshire and Giusepp) had qualms about the system and it's implied that Raballo even dies as a consequence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sezren
Like the government people being the "good guys" (use of music etc. strongly suggests that).
And if I still havent been clear about this portrayal thing. Yes they do show or implicate bad sides. But they give them little to no importance in terms of time-spent-on-them and in terms of drama of setting and music. Like somebody drawing a picture with a huge yellow sun in the mid and some smallish black dots in some corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
Same with parenting. Wanna bring up the nature-versus-nurture debate or something?
If you are saying that there are similarities between dog and child. Then yes they are. However in this case the dog analogy fits better. For example: Children have a future where they get (or can get) free from their parents. The girls/dogs have no such perspective. They are meant to always be bound.
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Old 2008-06-08, 23:32   Link #332
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sezren View Post
If you are saying that there are similarities between dog and child. Then yes they are. However in this case the dog analogy fits better. For example:Children have a future where they get (or can get) free from their parents. The girls/dogs have no such perspective. They are meant to always be bound.
It is not always true, the border betweem ''education/ upbringing'' and ''brainwashing'' is blurry. If a parents give the proper ''education'' to his child, he can ''shape'' his child's behavior in any way possible ( for better or worse).
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Old 2008-06-09, 00:54   Link #333
yezhanquan
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The Gunslinger Girls series always gave me the feel that the manga was better than the anime, not least because season 2 saw fit to change the vocal cast, which, to me, says that the animators are not treating the animation adaptation seriously.
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Old 2008-06-09, 10:27   Link #334
G. Zeus
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Again, just speaking for the manga and season 1. Season 2 was a failure in the eyes of most fans anyway.


Quote:
And if I still havent been clear about this portrayal thing. Yes they do show or implicate bad sides. But they give them little to no importance in terms of time-spent-on-them and in terms of drama of setting and music. Like somebody drawing a picture with a huge yellow sun in the mid and some smallish black dots in some corner.
So what kind of depiction do you want? Section 2 sporting the evil grin and laughing like mad scientists after obtaining a child or successfully finishing a mission?


Quote:
If you are saying that there are similarities between dog and child. Then yes they are. However in this case the dog analogy fits better. For example: Children have a future where they get (or can get) free from their parents. The girls/dogs have no such perspective. They are meant to always be bound.
I guess this really depends on what you want to see here. In my case, one of the reasons why I kept track of the series was the desire to know if they can break free from that fate somehow. Since the series isn't finished yet, they're only damned if you want to see them that way.


IMO, what really sets GsG apart from other series is the ambiguity. The fact that you're already doubting the morality of the protagonists rather than automatically rooting for any side only goes to show that the show was successful in making the audience question the system. It's a system built on compromise, sacrifice, guilt, and loss of innocence and I think the main point of the show is to make us wonder if it was all worth it despite the number of lives they have saved in the process. If you want something simpler with clear-cut good guys and bad guys, you could just stick to other shows like SaiKano or Death Note.
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Last edited by G. Zeus; 2008-06-09 at 10:46.
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Old 2008-06-09, 11:29   Link #335
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
. If you want something simpler with clear-cut good guys and bad guys, you could just stick to other shows like SaiKano or Death Note.
Which bad guys? Even Chise's action (as the Final Weapon) can't be really said being good or bad.
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Old 2008-06-09, 13:05   Link #336
Sezren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
IMO, what really sets GsG apart from other series is the ambiguity. The fact that you're already doubting the morality of the protagonists rather than automatically rooting for any side only goes to show that the show was successful in making the audience question the system. It's a system built on compromise, sacrifice, guilt, and loss of innocence and I think the main point of the show is to make us wonder if it was all worth it despite the number of lives they have saved in the process.
Repeating myself: In my view there is no ambiguity. The section 2 people are "the bad guys". For me there was also no "doubting the morality" or anything like that involved. Insofar I do not understand your argumentation.
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Old 2008-06-11, 21:23   Link #337
phishn37
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Season 1 : Fantastic ~ !
Season 2: Ew.

I just think they shouldn't bother with this one and leave Gunslinger where it is now, with a great first season ~ !
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Old 2008-08-03, 20:46   Link #338
Dreamiel
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Does Gunslinger Girl have a Merchendice thread like some of the other anime? If so, I have some questions about the trading figures. If any knows anything, please PM me ^_^.
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Old 2008-08-07, 13:45   Link #339
flowerkill
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Question

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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
FUNimation have announced the license for Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino-.

The series was produced by MFI so it has never been listed on AnimeSuki, see Removal of Media Factory Inc. Works for details.


Since it is "restricted", the following posts are no longer allowed in this thread.
  • Asking where you can find Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- downloads or torrents.
  • Asking for help downloading Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino-.
  • Asking for playback help for Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- episodes.
These rules applies to fansubs (in English or any other language) and raws alike.

I don't really get what the legal effects of discussing the subtitles would be. Can someone explain that, but rather not in legalese please? i get y ppl would get upset about torrents, but the subs of something that is already on the market?

For school i must research internet copyrights but for some reason there's not a lot about these things when its about anime or foriegn language stuff? :?


Thanks!
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Last edited by flowerkill; 2008-08-07 at 15:01.
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Old 2008-08-07, 14:00   Link #340
Amray
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I really am anticipating the moment that I see this anime. I have heard some bad things, and even been told to avoid it...but AS IF I am going to do that! I do not care if people do say that it is crap. I am a huge fan of Gunslinger Girl, Manga and Anime, therefore I will watch this series either way. Even if it does turn out not so good I would still rather watch it myself as opposed to just being told about it. I will decide if I like it or not for myself, thankyou.

Nontheless I am still looking forward to it. I am an easy audience so I will most likely find something really good in it. I adored the first series too, one of my biggest favourites.

I will get it on DVD as I have done with the first series, not to mention all of my other anime series' too.
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