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Old 2008-02-06, 18:16   Link #2041
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Let assume that Mao never went to France and they continued to see each other everyday. If that was the case i dont believe that Yuumi would have ever even come into the picture.
Come to think of it, we don't even know if Mao would have even had these kind of feelings if he she never went to France --- staying by his side instead of going away could have destroyed any possibility of her feelings appearing for Kouichi.
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Old 2008-02-06, 18:18   Link #2042
Lego
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Mao loves Kouichi, and it's apparent that she has had a thing for him since they were little. In the little flashback to when Mao is talking about going to Japan to enter school notice how she immediately mentions "Oh, I'll stay with Kouichi!". I know a few posts back it was brought up that Kouichi might be subconsciously channeling his love for Mao with the movie script. It just seems too coincidental to have that line in the movie script "I'll never let Mao cry again!" then BOOM!, flashback to something that Kouichi said exactly to Mao as kids. I know I'm getting my hopes up when we still have 5 episodes left(from spoilers I pretty much already know 18 and the groundwork of 19) but theres to many hints, to many coincidences, and to many moments for them to suddenly pull something. If they're leading us on this much with a Kouichi x Mao they have to do something, hopefully. Could you imagine what it'll be like if we get hyped up until episode 20-24 about Mao x Kouichi then suddenly BOOM, the rug is pulled out form under us?

I know that people want a School Days like ending or a sad ending, but come on I'm a sucker for things like this. My ideal ending would be a Kouichi x Mao kiss or a Kouichi x Mao embrace. Anything else will most likely cause me to burn out when it comes to anime for a few months and be emotionally depressed after all the effort I've put into this series. Mao doesn't know how to express her feelings for Kouichi like she should be able to. Of course you can tell from the latest episodes, especially 17 that she is fighting herself emotionally inside when it comes to Kouichi. I know it sounds callous of me but I'm hoping they use Yuumi's transfer as the reason to bring Mao x Kouichi together.

I keep saying it but Kouichi has this sixth sense for Mao. You can tell he deeply cares for her even if he doesn't express it the way Mao is currently expressing herself. Half of the problem is to that Mao should of told him right from the beginning that she loved him. Then again I still think that her love for Kouichi remained dormant until she saw Kouichi with Yuumi. Notice all the way back when Yuumi asked Mao about dating Kouichi, she pauses for a moment to think to herself. The other big moment for me early on was when Kouichi and Yuumi ran into Kai and Mao on the street. Notice how Yuumi looks down while Kouichi is fixated on Mao. He looks like he wants to run away or is shell shocked inside to see Mao with someone. Mao also has this extremely guilty look on her face and can't even make eye contact with him. Episode 19 will
Spoiler:
.

This is why I'm dieing to see the Newtype Spoiler page to see the episode title for 20 and possibly 21.
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Old 2008-02-06, 18:53   Link #2043
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Originally Posted by Lego View Post
I know that people want a School Days like ending or a sad ending, but come on I'm a sucker for things like this. My ideal ending would be a Kouichi x Mao kiss or a Kouichi x Mao embrace. Anything else will most likely cause me to burn out when it comes to anime for a few months and be emotionally depressed
I'm with you on this one Lego, after watching school days and seeing what happened.. I was very
Spoiler:
..

if something like that were to happen in Kimikiss, I think I will stop watching any other series for a while..
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Old 2008-02-06, 20:02   Link #2044
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I am confused by people... I thought it was already apparent that Mao-->Kouichi is as clear as crystal already. At the very beginning, it WAS very vague if whether Mao had any feelings towards Kouichi at all. I mean, at the start she had no qualms at all about setting Kouichi up with Yuumi. But somewhere along the way, when she saw how well Kouichi is getting along Yuumi, how farther away Kouichi is going every time he spends with Yuumi, Mao's heart starts feeling pain, sadness, and loneliness. At first it was just a slight frown, then she's starting to get depressed halfway throughout the series because of it. Then she tries to forget it by avoiding Kouichi, and going out with Kai. But when she saw Kouichi's kiss with Yuumi, THAT especially hits her hard.

So what could we deduce from this? Using hindsight, we can say that even during the time she was setting them up (aka the very beginning of the series), she was already sub-consciously in love with Kouichi. You know what they say, that you don't know what's there until you lose it? Well, that's exactly what happened with Mao. Those uneasy feelings she had when she saw KouichiXYuumi didn't come out of nowhere... it should be plain as day that she, in one form or another, already loved Kouichi in that way before that even happened. It's only now with the recent flashbacks we get to see exactly WHERE the root of her love came from, but no doubt in my mind her love for Kouichi has been there all along.

So if anything that has been done right by KimiKiss, it would be Mao-->Kouichi. The gradual build-up of having no care about Kouichi's interest in Yuumi, to being slightly uneasy about it around the time the second cour starts when she sees the two being really good together, to finally breaking down that Mao can't stand it anymore in the last episodes because of the kiss is something that JC Staff did very well IMO. There are lots of things JC staff did wrong, but Mao's feelings towards Kouichi coming out of nowhere isn't one of them.

(Now this is speculation, but I do think that Kouichi is in the same position that Mao was in the beginning of the series. He seems to be very supportive of Mao and Kai, but keep in mind that he has never seen those two chummy... not even once. All the MaoXKai moments were done outside the field of vision of Kouichi, and so it hasn't triggered his sub-conscious feelings for her yet. And with Kai left in the dust, I don't think we'll ever know how Kouichi'll react to say, if he saw Kai stealing a kiss from Mao near the middle of the first cour. In all honesty though, I don't think it'll be much different as to how Mao's acting right now.)

So considering that Mao had been sub-consciously in love with Kouichi in the beginning, it's not at all unplausible (in fact, it should make it all the more probable) that Kouichi returns her feelings sub-consciously right now. Especially how his script turned out to be, which gives us insight to who he really cares about IMO (big startling coincidence that Mao is the perfect heroine for the script? I think not), then the way for MaoXKouichi is all but confirmed already.

Of course, there's always a margin of error, and it's not at all impossible for Yuumi to end up with Kouichi. The build-up for that coupling is there, but IMO it's nearly isn't as large or as telling as the build-up for MaoXKouichi. As I said before, I think KouichiXYuumi is highly unlikely, but I wouldn't bash my head thinking that it came out of nowhere in the case it did happen unlike a certain other series... >_>


Comparing this to another JC Staff work, Honey & Clover...
Spoiler:




And people have commented how things would've worked out if Mao never went to france. There's two ways I go about it... either Yuumi is out of the picture from the very beginning, or it won't be any different from what we have right now. What I'm dead certain though is that Mao would still feel for Kouichi in that way, or more probably even stronger, considering how the Japanese handles Osana-Najimi relationships.


One more thing to add, in spite of me supportive of MaoXKouichi, I feel really bad about Hoshino. She's been nothing but supportive of Kouichi, despite the fact that in the last episode he can't shut up about Mao. This contrasts nicely with other anime girls, since usually when that happens, the girl in question would be all jealous about whoever her guy is talking about. Not Hoshino however, and for that she gets major plus points in my book. If she were real, I'd steal her away. XD
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Old 2008-02-06, 20:45   Link #2045
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
I am confused by people... I thought it was already apparent that Mao-->Kouichi is as clear as crystal already.
people are worried about the "plot twist" at the last minute syndrome that has been happening in anime in the last few years.
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Old 2008-02-06, 21:14   Link #2046
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Exactly golthin, thats my only real worry now and why you see me engaging in long responses day in and day out. I've been around anime enough to realize that some directors and shows love to bring up that last minute "plot twist" or something will magically happen between Mao and Kouichi to keep them apart. I'll be much happier once we get episode titles or spoilers(rough spoilers) for 20-24.

DragoonKain3, if you had to put it in a percentage, how solid do you feel that Kouichi x Mao will end up together?
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Old 2008-02-06, 21:30   Link #2047
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Well as I thought would happen a pretty depressed Kazuki and a guilty feeling Asuka.

Just a situation where the three aren't exactly full of spirits. Kazuki missing practice for three days and not quite being on his game even after coming back. Eriko locked up in her house alone. Even though she did it because she cared Asuka can't help feeling responsible. Guess they will be a bit busy with the Mao/Kouichi/Yuumi situation.

Well Kai's Blues career is going to go strong. Guy tried being a good person and cared, but in the end it just didn't do it. No clue how he'll be responding to being dumped.

Not sure why but still can't give up the old ED. Just feels like a good song for the cliffhanger. Feel for the new song since I've probably only listened to it a few times .
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Old 2008-02-06, 22:23   Link #2048
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I really didn't want to post this not knowing when they'll update it or the updating schedule but Newtype's online site has this. The spoilers have run from 14-18 with 18 just having a:

Quote:
18 accounts (2/9) Subtitle uncertain>> script = Mariko Kunisawa production = uncertainness A picture continuity = Koichi Takada painting or taking pictures director = Shinsuke Yanagi and Kanako Oyabu
after I put it through the translator. I don't know they'd update it episode by episode or if they wipe the board and put four to five up at a time like they did there. I can remember that 14-18(with 18 being blank) have been up since at least 16. It would be nice for them to put up 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 instead of 14-18 or even 18-23 but knowing our luck they'll update it weekly if at all
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Old 2008-02-06, 22:24   Link #2049
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A bit off topic :P

For Kai fans, check his VA on this anime Hatenkō Yugi (TV), he plays as Alzeido, which is funny coz that character reminds me of Kai but in badass mode lol.
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Old 2008-02-06, 22:25   Link #2050
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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
people are worried about the "plot twist" at the last minute syndrome that has been happening in anime in the last few years.
Well for me I spotted all the signs (even the really early ones), but they were really ambiguous. None of the childhood ones can be taken as a declaration of love or a promise of a romantic future together. Even now I can't see the protect each other from crying thing to be a sign of their love. I try to leave them ambiguous in my head and use the current signs as their love for each other, but I can't see it. I can see Mao getting depressed each time she sees Kouichi developing his relationship and then she has to run of to further hers. Sign of love? Maybe, but could also be a sign of competitiveness.

Lets look at the mini stud...

Kouichi shows confused feelings over the kiss on the forehead (hell what teenage boy wouldn't if a sexy minx like Mao kissed my forehead). Remember this is Japan and kissing isn't a greeting over there.

He also shows concern for her, but this is natural if he does consider her like a sister. If this concern is of someone wanting to have a relationship then add in the Yuumi factor and it just doesn't add up in my head.

Then there is him missing her. He has said even to his current girl friend he misses Mao. I don't think any person would say that to their girl friend if he actually fancied her. Hell if I was Kouichi I would miss have Mao to doss around with, she does seem like the type of person a little brother would love to have as a big sister.

With Mao, apart from the obvious signs she isn't comfortable with Kai (the new born blues star), the reasons why she is pining over Kouichi are a stretch in my mind. If they are repressed feelings being brought up by seeing Kouichi snog someone, or herself being kissed by someone then that is plausible, but at least throw me a bigger bone with the childhood scenes. I think that the writers left all them scenes so ambiguous so that they could easily swing the story either way, but it just leaves me with a feeling over Mao's actions.

I just end up feeling that she is very competitive over Kouichi and each time he did sometime she needed to do one better. Of course I know this is not the case as her pining and avoiding of Kouichi suggests something else is up.

I still go for my theory that she has empathised with the heroine of the role she is playing too much. Kai was a mistake she got into as she probably is the type of person who doesn't like being hated or ignored, but she just didn't think Kai would take her befriending that way or so fast.
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Old 2008-02-06, 22:31   Link #2051
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Bah grey, now you have me worried again

I think we both agree that they're going to have to show some movement from Kouichi when it comes to his feelings for Mao. The one hint that keeps getting me is after Mao kissed his forehead and the next day he thinks to himself while looking at Mao's lips "I wonder what she thinks of me".

I know what you're saying about Mao but in my mind Mao running off the Kai or pushing Kouichi to do his best is her self defense mechanism. It pains her greatly not to be able to tell Kouichi that she loves him. The person lost in all of this is Kouichi and what will he end up doing. I don't agree with you though when you mention that Mao's current feelings are only because shes really into her role in the movie. They've been hinting at this before the movie and it sure was some coincidence that Yuumi couldn't act so Mao has to take her place. Look at how Mao acted when they went to hold hands on the beach for the movie, she was so fidgety about being with Kouichi because she loves him and she went right to Kai at the end of 16 because it's her self defense mechanism so she doesn't get hurt.

If they somehow make Mao go back to Kai while keeping Kouichi in a long distance relationship with Yuumi I would consider it a bait and switch. It would pain me to see this many coincidences, hints, flashbacks, and moments washed down the drain just to lead on the audience then pull the rug out from under them. Of course I'm a Kouichi x Mao fan but sadly I can imagine them play some sort of bait and switch at the end or near the end of the series
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Old 2008-02-06, 22:52   Link #2052
grey_moon
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Originally Posted by Lego View Post
Bah grey, now you have me worried again

I think we both agree that they're going to have to show some movement from Kouichi when it comes to his feelings for Mao. The one hint that keeps getting me is after Mao kissed his forehead and the next day he thinks to himself while looking at Mao's lips "I wonder what she thinks of me".

I know what you're saying about Mao but in my mind Mao running off the Kai or pushing Kouichi to do his best is her self defense mechanism. It pains her greatly not to be able to tell Kouichi that she loves him. The person lost in all of this is Kouichi and what will he end up doing. I don't agree with you though when you mention that Mao's current feelings are only because shes really into her role in the movie. They've been hinting at this before the movie and it sure was some coincidence that Yuumi couldn't act so Mao has to take her place. Look at how Mao acted when they went to hold hands on the beach for the movie, she was so fidgety about being with Kouichi because she loves him and she went right to Kai at the end of 16 because it's her self defense mechanism so she doesn't get hurt.

If they somehow make Mao go back to Kai while keeping Kouichi in a long distance relationship with Yuumi I would consider it a bait and switch. It would pain me to see this many coincidences, hints, flashbacks, and moments washed down the drain just to lead on the audience then pull the rug out from under them. Of course I'm a Kouichi x Mao fan but sadly I can imagine them play some sort of bait and switch at the end or near the end of the series

Yah Mao's situation is lots more complicated then Kouichi's and therefore can be read in many ways. Good point about her feelings being made shown before she took the role of the movies, I'll have to keep that in my mind.
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Old 2008-02-06, 23:31   Link #2053
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Originally Posted by Lego View Post
If they somehow make Mao go back to Kai while keeping Kouichi in a long distance relationship with Yuumi I would consider it a bait and switch. It would pain me to see this many coincidences, hints, flashbacks, and moments washed down the drain just to lead on the audience then pull the rug out from under them. Of course I'm a Kouichi x Mao fan but sadly I can imagine them play some sort of bait and switch at the end or near the end of the series
ok you guys are rationalizing Mao too much. I was one of the people that kept saying that Mao was using Kai ALL the time. I was worried that they will end together. After the break up I doubt Mao will end with Kai. there is a fact here, one thing that I am 100% sure. Mao is IN love with Kouichi. I know Kouichi has feelings for Mao, but I don't know if they are love, friendship, or sibling like affection. the next 7 episodes will very important. 2/3 of what is left will be KouichixMao with 1/3 being KazukixSakinoxFutami.
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Old 2008-02-06, 23:34   Link #2054
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After watching 17 with the subs, I think I am really starting to feel for Mao.

In 16, her emo-ness was really annoyng but now it all makes sense. She came back from France to stay with Kouichi because he was a special friend to her growing up. Then Kouichi doesn't even recognize her at first when she comes to his house- poor Mao! Then, Mao finds out Kouichi has a girl he likes, so she helps Kouichi get close to Yumi because she cares about him. When it appears Yumi has become more important to Kouichi than Mao, Mao gets jealous and all of her true feelings come pouring out. And the angst increases tenfold. Now, she has to deal with the feeling that all along, she has meant nothing to Kouichi as a friend (but it's definitely not true) AND her unrequited love. So, what at first seemed like ridiculous emo-ness now feels more like solid scenes that give us insight into Mao's amazing character development. Bottom line, episode 17 was a great Mao episode!!

The only thing Mao did wrong in this mess (imo) is that as her feelings for Kouichi became more apparent to her, Mao continued to further her relationship with Kai. But I do think Mao will redeem herself in the end- and I think a heartfelt apology to Kai-kun in epi 18 would be perfect.

Can't wait for 18-hopefully we'll get some more of the other triangle as well.
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Old 2008-02-06, 23:56   Link #2055
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Originally Posted by littlekitty View Post
She came back from France to stay with Kouichi because he was a special friend to her growing up. Then Kouichi doesn't even recognize her at first when she comes to his house- poor Mao! Then, Mao finds out Kouichi has a girl he likes, so she helps Kouichi get close to Yumi because she cares about him. When it appears Yumi has become more important to Kouichi than Mao, Mao gets jealous and all of her true feelings come pouring out.
I think everyone expected something like this at the start, just that Kai threw a massive spanner into the works for a long time. Heck when I saw the last scene of episode 6 I was like "fuck yeah about time" and than quickly started 7 instead of going to bed. Than I saw Kai make his move and was like "fuck this" and didn't watch another ep for like a month lol. I might go rewatch the early episode of the series, at least the Mao around Kouichi parts.
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Old 2008-02-07, 00:06   Link #2056
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Woot? Him not recognising her crushed her love and forced her to set him up with another girl and go out with another guy? That really is pushing it. I mean she could have jumped his bones if she was that in love with him. If for what ever reason she repressed her feelings then that is fine, but there was no sign of a romantic element between them until later on.
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Old 2008-02-07, 00:11   Link #2057
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But with lots of shows like this it always happens, the girl doesn't make a move until she sees the guy with another girl. You watching True Tears for instance? Since I could use that as an example.

Spoiler for True Tears:
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Old 2008-02-07, 00:15   Link #2058
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Okay but lets say that the flashback of her wanting to come back to Japan was because she missed Kouichi. Moving back and him not recognising her might be a bit of a slap in the face. If it was a slap in the face and the reason why she wanted to come back to Japan was because she liked him, why set him up with Yumi? <- That is where that theory breaks down for me....
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Old 2008-02-07, 00:15   Link #2059
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
But with lots of shows like this it always happens, the girl doesn't make a move until she sees the guy with another girl. You watching True Tears for instance? Since I could use that as an example.

Spoiler for True Tears:
that is a plot device used a lot in anime. Let face it, it is very hard to try to reinvent the wheel.
Very few shows have original material now days. what make a show is just how they mix all the plot devices and how likeable they make the characters. I think one of the few shows that has used one of the less recycled cliche is True tears. The ShinxAikoxNobuse is not a unique situation but it is used very rarely. I think last time I saw it used was on Kiminoze.
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Old 2008-02-07, 00:25   Link #2060
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For me Mao's kind of had feelings for Kouichi somewhat suppressed throughout the series. It took something as powerful as Kouichi and Yuumi's kiss and her finding the old "Dog of Flanders" book from when they were kids. This tells you an awful lot about Mao's feelings for Kouichi when the flashback had Mao saying that she'd the book if that made Kouichi stop crying/happy and she still has it. So obviously she still has the book and even took the time to pack it, I think that tells you a lot about Mao.

Now as for Kai, ugh just saying his name makes me worried. Mao is mostly to blame for this because remember when Kai asked her out and she happily said "sure"? Part of that was pressure since Kouichi was going after Yuumi. Remember the whole "find someone Kouichi" then Kouichi kept shooting back about Mao finding someone for herself? What really pushed the envelope was Kai's kiss of Mao. Kouichi knows nothing of this kiss and nothing of their relationship at all. Kai, especially in 17 was really picking up on something being wrong with Mao and even asked her about it.

Take a look at the episode preview with Mao talking to Kai. We get a shot of her feet, a long shot of Kai and Mao standing there, Kai seemingly with a surprised look on his face with his teeth showing, and then presumably Mao runs off into the rain. The keys to episode 18 will be what Mao says to Kai and vice versa and what
Spoiler:
.

I don't know if Mao will apologize to Kai, if Kai will ask her why, or if Mao will just tell him that she loves Kouichi or loves someone else. From the next episode preview you get the feeling that Kai at least says something to her about it or Mao says more. Whatever said causes Mao to run off into the rain then heres the key part, she SLOWS DOWN TO A WALK. In the next episode preview they show her running through the city area, presumably after breaking up with Kai and then she slows to a walk. In the next episode preview you can see it start to rain when they're talking to each other. Maybe she finally has some resolve for her true feelings?

Last edited by Lego; 2008-02-07 at 00:38.
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