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Old 2008-03-25, 08:22   Link #3681
Deathkillz
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Originally Posted by Lego View Post
You know Death that towel looks awfully nice to have with the game *hint hint*. I was surprised we didn't get that much merchandise with this series, maybe because it bombed in Japan. Oh well, no complaints for me.

The funny thing to realize while looking at those towels is thats what Kouichi and Kaz see almost everyday now . In a weird way Kimikiss had no fanservice aside from maid Mao and ankle shots and Eriko in the shower. In a weird way I didn't consider Mao in the maid costume fanservice, it just feels so werid to think of her in that way. I like the fact that the series took that route and didn't have to resort to panty shots or "its not what it looks like" out of clothes moments.
Which is a good route to take. It makes it more real to not have to revert to primitive desires. I mean just Futami's appearance was enough for me XD

But yea...not enough stuff >_<

Though what me wants, me gets!

Poor wallet ;__;
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Good finds DK looks like its time to make my credit card cry again this month i dont think has recovered yet but oh well. God I want more Futami i just can get enough of her.
I'll try not to go into protective mode
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Old 2008-03-25, 08:45   Link #3682
deltakano
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Originally Posted by Haruyasha View Post
Who in the right mind would build up a relationship through 23 episodes and then sack everything on the last? I had a feeling they'd pull something like this.
That's why the series' ending felt rushed. It went from a 9/10 to a 6.5/10 for lack of character development. It basically decided to stop running after it reached the climax two episodes before. Oh well.
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Old 2008-03-25, 09:08   Link #3683
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the kouichi x yumi separation felt rush imo. as did the relationship between the class rep and the movie maniac, it pops out of nowhere.
i still think that the soccer got robbed hardcore. any male would have been ok for futami to start her experiment, i liked this character and her evolution but i feel bad for the soccer girl. she lost everything, she cant live up her passion playing official soccer match, she got the man she loved stolen just because of stupid paper plane... life is unfair. had futami not been there kazuki would have gone for the soccer girl imo but futami just raise a firework of teenager hormones in eps1.
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Old 2008-03-25, 09:15   Link #3684
Owaranai Destiny
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Originally Posted by deltakano View Post
That's why the series' ending felt rushed. It went from a 9/10 to a 6.5/10 for lack of character development. It basically decided to stop running after it reached the climax two episodes before. Oh well.
Just wondering...Where in between all those relationships and interactions do you find there to be a lack of character development? You meant to say that Kai, Mao, Kouichi, Kazuki, Eriko, Asuka and Yuumi didn't change?

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Originally Posted by D a m i e n View Post
i still think that the soccer got robbed hardcore. any male would have been ok for futami to start her experiment, i liked this character and her evolution but i feel bad for the soccer girl. she lost everything, she cant live up her passion playing official soccer match, she got the man she loved stolen just because of stupid paper plane... life is unfair. had futami not been there kazuki would have gone for the soccer girl imo but futami just raise a firework of teenager hormones in eps1.
Last I recalled, Asuka didn't like Kazuki in the first place. Her feelings for him developed along the course of her frequent interactions with him. Besides, she didn't lose 'everything'. Being scouted out by a coach of a rather competent team for a female soccer league (or something of that sort) is exactly what she wants-To get a chance to play in official matches.

If I had to say one thing of pity for Asuka, that would be "Too bad..." with a tinge of regret perched on top. She came into the game late, and you can't really blame Kazuki for getting sentimental about Eriko earlier on.
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Old 2008-03-25, 09:30   Link #3685
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Asuka is Kaz's friend, thats simple. She did kiss him sure, but it was one of those "I'll kiss you to settle my own feelings, you'll see what you missed!" type of things. She even went and sought out Eriko and told her to go to Kaz and reassured her. Kaz totally fell for Eriko way before Asuka. Asuka, much like Yuumi was the victim of not acting on her feelings. Asuka with Kaz and Yuumi not questioning Kouichi more. Thats just not the person Yuumi is. She even tells him "I watched you all this time, I knew your feelings". This is why Kouichi makes it a point to say "I've been lying to you, Yuumi, and myself", it also ties into what Kai said about Kouichi being the same as Mao, staying with someone so they wouldn't hurt them while they lie about their feelings.

The breakup with Yuumi had been happening for six or seven episodes, Kouichi just now got the kick in the ass and the mental footing he needed to do it. Look at Yuumi's reaction to him during that scene, she knew full well and even says it. She knew and even felt so uneasy about Mao, look at her and Mao's conversation and how they make it a point to show Mao hurting.

As for Kouichi and Mao rushed? Ha, thats been going on all series. Mao says it herself as Kouichi is walking towards her "I won't hurt you?(notice the tinge in her voice)", "You always make me think about you and.." right before he tells Mao that he deeply loves her and she says "Me, too". "I love you to, Kouichi!" and boom kiss. If you needed any more reinforcement Mao at first tries to get him to go away, much like she did the entire last half of the series, she is obviously thinking about Kouichi when shes alone on the bridge and is surprised that he is actually there. This shows us that Kouichi made up his mind and is resolved when Mao tells him to go to Yuumi after he tells her that they broke up and he stands there(after using her confession on her) blushing, stern look on his face in defiance as if saying "No more running Mao, I'm here".

Kouichi and Mao were both lying to themselves about their own feelings. Mao had her breakdown because she yearned for Kouichi and Kouichi had his after Mao left. He didn't want to loose her again and he tells her that. He reiterated what he said to her as kids and they even show a quick shot of it and Mao remembers but this time Kouichi is talking not as a friend, but as a couple. Kouichi is basically saying "enough of this, I love you Mao" and of course Mao is crazy for him and loves him deeply as well.

This(over analyzing) is what gets me in trouble is that I start to think about things like this and it all comes flooding back. I have to stop feeling that I have the job of responding to all of these posts about the ending, about Kouichi and Mao, and who knows what like I'm the sole defender of the series. I've been through enough mental anguish to relive it again

I guess part of me after all of that and the wonderful ending is checking to make sure it's all still real. And guess what? It sure is real and spectacular


On another note, that Eriko towel is almost FIFTY dollars? Wow, I'd rather blow it all on that Mao figure

Last edited by Lego; 2008-03-25 at 09:45.
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Old 2008-03-25, 10:09   Link #3686
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Which is a good route to take. It makes it more real to not have to revert to primitive desires. I mean just Futami's appearance was enough for me XD

But yea...not enough stuff >_<

Though what me wants, me gets!

Poor wallet ;__;

I'll try not to go into protective mode
Oh come on DK wheres the love
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Old 2008-03-25, 11:56   Link #3687
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Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
Did you really watch the show?

Yuumi effectively halted her relationship with Kouichi right after the movie scene taping..., it should have been obvious that she let Kouichi drift over to Mao around then.

The relationship was built over the first half of the series and froze and started crumbling after the 19th, when Kouichi totally stopped paying attention to Yuumi and Yuumi decided not to force the issue.

There was nothing sudden about this if you had paid attention to what Yuumi was watching and thinking..., she was the most observant in any case.
Really, lot of people with low attention span. IT seems that they watch each episode and when the next one comes they forget what happened in the previous episode.
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Old 2008-03-25, 12:03   Link #3688
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Timeskip? What timeskip? Episode 22 had the 2 days before the festival covered, while episodes 23 and 24 were the very day of the festival. If anything, time was like almost at a standstill in the final episodes, but in any case, I fail to see where the timeskip occured in KimiKiss. Care to elaborate?

And for the record, Vexx was just trying to correct you on your usage of Ichigo'ed or Canvas 2'ed. The majority of people who would use such a term, uses it BECAUSE of the three terms he has listed, and certainly not the way you use it. Is it really any surprise then why people keep badgering you about the clues when you agree with them in the first place?

It would be like me saying KimiKiss was School Day'ed, using that term to describe how Sekai pushed together Kotonoha and Makoto together despite her feelings towards him (of which the same happened here), when the vast majority of people would associate the term with the Nice Boat ending (of which has nothing to do with KimiKiss at all).


@physics
Just wondering, have you seen the second season of Honey and Clover?

I really do feel you should be comparing the end of season 2 rather than the end of season 1, as how they developed to the final episode in season 2 is much more in line with Kimikiss than how they did things in season 1. In fact, I'd even say it's almost a carbon copy of it, just gender switched. Maybe you'd be less disappointed then. Let's just say not everyone wins in the end, and the reasoning behind the decision of a main character is even more subtly hinted than here in Kimikiss, but the idea remains the same.

That said, as much as Takemoto's action at the end of Season 1 is a culmination of his experiences from the very beginning, I'd still say the very same of Kouichi. From episode 1 it was shown he was awestruck with Mao's beauty, where he states that he doesn't know anyone as pretty as her. So there it was established that she's physically attracting to him, but it just so happens then he was much more emotionally attracted to Yuumi then.

So did his emotional feelings change like that, or briskly as you put it? I completely disagree. Not counting the unconscious love hints from before, starting at episode 17 it is shown that he's clearly starting to waver from his conviction for Yuumi, as then it's Mao all he's thinking about. Then 19 came around with the mock confession for the movie, where it's obvious both Kouichi and Mao were beyond acting at that scene. And 22 should've put no doubt in anyone's mind that it is Mao who is truly in Kouichi's heart, where he broke down in lonely tears without Mao around, as it was during that time she started avoiding him. Yuumi? Not a single thought from Kouichi IIRC.

So the writers have explicitly shown, in the span of 6 episodes (or a quarter of the series's entire run), how Kouichi's focus changed. And before that, the writers have dropped subtle hints that it would happen, from Kouichi remembering Mao in the middle of a date with Yuumi, to the script where not it's only about childhood friends getting together, but where Mao fits the role perfectly and yet Yuumi failed. After all these, can it not be said that his decision to follow his heart by breaking up with Yuumi ,and then confess to Mao be the result of all his past experiences combined?

In a sense, he did end where he began, as Mao was probably his most important person back in childhood, and he realized the very same in high school.

I mean, he always was Mao's to begin with, wasn't he? j/k




Really though, I find it very interesting that some people think that MaoXKouichi was executed too slow while there are some who thought the same pairing was executed too fast. How can two groups of people have two completely opposite thoughts on the same pairing from the same series? I understand where the former group is coming from considering they've only been complaining for the last 1k posts (j/k ), but the latter is a complete and utter mystery for me because it's so new and no one really has elaborated on that fact.

Was it because Kouichi up until his talk to Kai in the beginning of 24 still had intention to keep the promise with Yuumi? I would agree, if episodes 17-22 didn't happen as he was deadset on keeping the promise before then. But thing is, at 17 you see Kouichi starting to slip from his resolution as he's starting to consciously think about Mao more. And by the end of the 22 it was very clear that he's torn between reason and emotion; he promised Yuumi that he'd be together forever with her, but it was then he truly realized that it was Mao who's really in his heart. So just going by that factor alone (there's others), it should've shown that at the very least there's a 50/50 chance that he will break his promise sooner or later, and so a decision from him to break up shouldn't have been a 'surprise'. It just so happened that the break up occured in the last episode when Kai gave him the final nudge (not push mind you) to follow his heart.

Or was it because people were expecting that it'd be Yuumi to end the relationship, and so it was OOC for Kouichi to be the one? It was shown that she knew about Mao and Kouichi's feelings ever since the end of 19, and thus seems to be the more logical choice for the break up. This is because Kouichi for the vast majority of the series was shown as the guy who just goes with the flow, and so it was unlikely for him to be the one. But that's just the thing... he was able to break from that habit of his because of the depth of his feelings for Mao, after he realized with the help of Kai that he's helping noone and hurting everyone the way he was then. If he didn't grow a spine then, then nothing ever will. He would've been no different at all from your typical wussy harem male lead, and would show how weak and shallow his love for Mao actually is.(And I would've probably dropped a letter grade for my evaluation of KimiKiss just because of that)


@deltakano
We are in agreement that the climax is at episode 22. What we don't agree on is that there should be character development after it. I completely disagree (as does the majority of fiction writers btw ), as any new character development of a major character in either the falling action or denouement would be contrived at best. I mean, look at how bad the KuryuuXHiiragi development looks when both are minor characters (and as such, it's of no consequence really). So how much worse it would look if that kind of development was given to a major character?

On that topic, I must say that KimiKiss is written like a novel. We got exposition of the characters from episode 1 to 5, the trigger incident at episode 6 (Mao's uneasy smile at KouchiXYuumi), rising action from 7 to 21, climax at 22 (Kouichi's despair in his room at the end of the episode), and falling action in 23 to the first half of 24, and the denoument in the last half of the last episode. God, it's like my Writer's Craft course all over again. O_O
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Old 2008-03-25, 12:09   Link #3689
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I agree. People seem to miss out on all the buildup and just say that he changed his mind last minute. I guess they have forgotten about his crying scene and all those flashback hints. Oh and how unhappy he was begining to look being with Yumi. Not to mention how he is obviously less noticing of her as the time passed. etc etc
Yuumi tried one more time to check for any feelings. As they walked she reached for his hand and touched it but kouichi didn't hold it. some minutes later they are show walking again and this time he has his hands in his pockets and she had her hands behind her back. It was COMPLETELY OVER by then. There was a reason the director showed us that.
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Old 2008-03-25, 12:15   Link #3690
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
wall of text
I think you're basically right on all accounts. I just find it to be most annoying that for some reason in this case "Mao fans" seem to have been the ones who totally missed Yuumi's point of view from 19-24.

Yuumi is the Kiri here but she does the exact opposite so we get the exact opposite of a Canvas 2.

Spoiler for Kimikiss Ending:


I can't even express how much I'm in disbelief that people seem to be mixing up the two situations when in fact they are polar opposites in style and execution of the "twist" that seems to be at issue.
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Old 2008-03-25, 13:26   Link #3691
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Finally saw the last episode, but GODDAMMIT I cant say how incredibly pissed I am with this idiotic ending I dont know why the emo (cant find another word for that idiot Kouichi and Mao) always win. Soooo hoped he would run in front of a car in the scene when he jumped over the guard rail, too bad he didnt.

Thats one of those "I ditch the girl that cared for me for 23.7 episodes in the last 5min of the series and go for another one" shows. Aside of that I have only minor complaints but this one is really annoying me. Yes once the MaoxKouich relationship started to develop there have been hints in every episode and it was more or less clear how it would end, guess I am not really the type for endings like that

Minor other complaints:
Was there a Shijou arc? -.-
Was there a Nana arc? Cant call the udon making at school festival with approval of her grand-father a climax at all.
AsukaxKazuki Asuka was my favourite girl in the show, too bad she ended up alone. Dont get me wrong, I am fine with FutamixAihara as I like Futami too, but I would have preferred it the other way.

To add something nice about the show, I like how KuryuuxHiiragi worked out, though I saw that coming from a mile away.
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Old 2008-03-25, 13:41   Link #3692
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Finally saw the last episode, but GODDAMMIT I cant say how incredibly pissed I am with this idiotic ending I dont know why the emo (cant find another word for that idiot Kouichi and Mao) always win. Soooo hoped he would run in front of a car in the scene when he jumped over the guard rail, too bad he didnt.

Thats one of those "I ditch the girl that cared for me for 23.7 episodes in the last 5min of the series and go for another one" shows. Aside of that I have only minor complaints but this one is really annoying me. Yes once the MaoxKouich relationship started to develop there have been hints in every episode and it was more or less clear how it would end, guess I am not really the type for endings like that

Minor other complaints:
Was there a Shijou arc? -.-
Was there a Nana arc? Cant call the udon making at school festival with approval of her grand-father a climax at all.
AsukaxKazuki Asuka was my favourite girl in the show, too bad she ended up alone. Dont get me wrong, I am fine with FutamixAihara as I like Futami too, but I would have preferred it the other way.

To add something nice about the show, I like how KuryuuxHiiragi worked out, though I saw that coming from a mile away.
The cries of a wounded fanboy. Listen carefully how he weeps in pain. Don't get too close or he will maul on your face

The "last 5 minutes of the ep" made me laugh. I mean, how else could they have ended it? By then it was clear to both sides (kouichi and yumi) that their relationship wasn't going to last. Hence why yumi wasn't surprised or shocked at all. Now it would have been a different case if there was no lead up to the final parting scene, but for those who still think that there was no lead up or that it was too sudden/fast what have you, then I suggest a rewatch and actually pay more attention. It's not as if the feelings from this series is subtle or hidden where you have to find them meaning behind things (like TT), everything has been shown as obvious.

And why make things any more complicated. Nana arc? (hahaha). I would have liked to see Hiiragi and Mitsuki getting more but think about where time would be taken from. If it isn't mao x kouichi then it would have to be from kazuki, but he has as little time as we can afford already.
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Old 2008-03-25, 14:16   Link #3693
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Great anime, great ending. I really enjoyed this series
KouichixMao and AiharaxFutami 4ever
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Old 2008-03-25, 14:34   Link #3694
Eisdrache
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
The cries of a wounded fanboy. Listen carefully how he weeps in pain. Don't get too close or he will maul on your face

The "last 5 minutes of the ep" made me laugh. I mean, how else could they have ended it? By then it was clear to both sides (kouichi and yumi) that their relationship wasn't going to last. Hence why yumi wasn't surprised or shocked at all. Now it would have been a different case if there was no lead up to the final parting scene, but for those who still think that there was no lead up or that it was too sudden/fast what have you, then I suggest a rewatch and actually pay more attention. It's not as if the feelings from this series is subtle or hidden where you have to find them meaning behind things (like TT), everything has been shown as obvious.

And why make things any more complicated. Nana arc? (hahaha). I would have liked to see Hiiragi and Mitsuki getting more but think about where time would be taken from. If it isn't mao x kouichi then it would have to be from kazuki, but he has as little time as we can afford already.
haha, I admit I got a bit carried away as I wrote the reply just after seeing the episode. I also admit that I am more a Yuumi fanboy than a Mao one. Not that I think that this is something bad. Though I think your first paragraph was kind of mean. After all I am free to think about the series the way I want to and not the way that pleases you.

There is one thing I dont agree with you, thats the bolded part. Like I wrote, even I am not that stupid to overlook the hints etc they made for MaoxKouichi (And I am usually quite dense lol) Its more that Kouichi is the type I totally cant stand, you know the one who got the "have to be always nice/helpful/gentle brother/friend" complex.

Also you can expect that a girl (Nana) that shows up in the opening got a tad more development that mere udon making for getting the approval of her grand-father, who doesnt say a word through the whole series (at least I dont remember -.-)

edit: Oh I forgot to ask: Does Shijou (Mitsuki? Always forget her first name -.-) fiancÚ show up in the game? He is more or less a mystery to me.
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Old 2008-03-25, 14:44   Link #3695
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I mean, look at how bad the KuryuuXHiiragi development looks when both are minor characters (and as such, it's of no consequence really). So how much worse it would look if that kind of development was given to a major character?
Yeah, any major development needs to happen before the climax. As for Kuryuu (a cameo who suddenly became visible at the last minute. She wasn't even a side character), I think she was merely a distraction. With the love triangles drawn out, the writers would naturally find new ways of injecting interesting moments.

Last edited by rg4619; 2008-03-25 at 14:54.
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Old 2008-03-25, 14:51   Link #3696
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Ah DragoonKain3, I see you have taken my place when it comes to writing monster posts about the same things we keep discussing, I think you for it.
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Old 2008-03-25, 15:03   Link #3697
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
haha, I admit I got a bit carried away as I wrote the reply just after seeing the episode. I also admit that I am more a Yuumi fanboy than a Mao one. Not that I think that this is something bad. Though I think your first paragraph was kind of mean. After all I am free to think about the series the way I want to and not the way that pleases you.

There is one thing I dont agree with you, thats the bolded part. Like I wrote, even I am not that stupid to overlook the hints etc they made for MaoxKouichi (And I am usually quite dense lol) Its more that Kouichi is the type I totally cant stand, you know the one who got the "have to be always nice/helpful/gentle brother/friend" complex.

Also you can expect that a girl (Nana) that shows up in the opening got a tad more development that mere udon making for getting the approval of her grand-father, who doesnt say a word through the whole series (at least I dont remember -.-)

edit: Oh I forgot to ask: Does Shijou (Mitsuki? Always forget her first name -.-) fiancÚ show up in the game? He is more or less a mystery to me.
Sorry if I sounded mean, that was just a joke (in an evil and sarcastic way)

But what you just said it sounds like you have more of a problem with Kouichi's personality (understandable if you don't like his type) than what actually happened to the relationship. But the fact is that you mixed in an impression on me that you thought that what happened was sudden or lacked sense. Well you can hate his method of breaking up with yumi but what I can't stand is if people started thinking that this was a last minute decision, as those two "things" are entirely different.

And because I hate Nana and her friend so much, I think it was good that their screen time was kept to a minimum (now that is bias ). Sorry if anyone likes them but I just can't do it...

and I don't think that Mitsuki mentions anything in the game considering that the game is totally different than the series.
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Old 2008-03-25, 15:17   Link #3698
ReizoSan
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Finally saw the last episode, but GODDAMMIT I cant say how incredibly pissed I am with this idiotic ending I dont know why the emo (cant find another word for that idiot Kouichi and Mao) always win. Soooo hoped he would run in front of a car in the scene when he jumped over the guard rail, too bad he didnt.

Thats one of those "I ditch the girl that cared for me for 23.7 episodes in the last 5min of the series and go for another one" shows. Aside of that I have only minor complaints but this one is really annoying me. Yes once the MaoxKouich relationship started to develop there have been hints in every episode and it was more or less clear how it would end, guess I am not really the type for endings like that

Minor other complaints:
Was there a Shijou arc? -.-
Was there a Nana arc? Cant call the udon making at school festival with approval of her grand-father a climax at all.
AsukaxKazuki Asuka was my favourite girl in the show, too bad she ended up alone. Dont get me wrong, I am fine with FutamixAihara as I like Futami too, but I would have preferred it the other way.

To add something nice about the show, I like how KuryuuxHiiragi worked out, though I saw that coming from a mile away.
Well the Mao side was a little to obvious of how it would happen but i was holding a ray of hope for Asuka, I feel the same as you mate, Asuka was the best character in the anime and i feel really sorry for her to be honest she couldn't of done anything more .
I saw the both endings from the start but overal if your looking throught how every episode was amazing then this ending was best for the series. It feels strange that both women who lost out i liked them both better than (Mao & Futami).
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Old 2008-03-25, 15:54   Link #3699
deltakano
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
@deltakano
We are in agreement that the climax is at episode 22. What we don't agree on is that there should be character development after it. I completely disagree (as does the majority of fiction writers btw ), as any new character development of a major character in either the falling action or denouement would be contrived at best. I mean, look at how bad the KuryuuXHiiragi development looks when both are minor characters (and as such, it's of no consequence really). So how much worse it would look if that kind of development was given to a major character?
Oh, no, no, I don't want any more episodes or character development. I just feel that the ending demanded character development from the series which it did not build on. I just felt disappointed that they just decided to slap on all these relationships all at once. Futami's relationship should have been low key but it was treated as important as Mao's. If they (producers/writers) actually focused on Mao and Kouichi in the last episode instead of running around and giving a rushed conclusion for EACH and EVERY character they mentioned, then I would have been pleased. They even made cliff hangers surrounding Mao and Kouichi but all they gave them was a 5 min. spotlight, which destroys the potential of how great the ending could have been.

It was an enjoyable series but did not capitalize on leaving a lasting impression on me.
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Old 2008-03-25, 15:58   Link #3700
Lego
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Thats the directors style, look at something like Honey and Clover. Hell in most shows it would end with them standing there. Thank god for the mutual confessions, Kouichi's resolve, the kiss, the glowing looks at each other while Mao has her head on Kouichi's shoulder and then Mao going in for the second kiss on her tipey toes.

It's what I wanted and I'm satisfied with it since that was pretty much that was left to do since they built up to it the whole series.
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bishoujo, drama, enterbrain, j.c. staff, romance, seinen, shounen

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