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Old 2008-04-11, 21:58   Link #3861
DragoonKain3
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I guess I'm the only KimiKiss fanatic (apart from maybe DKZ) that thinks Vampire Knight is great, lol.

C'mon Lego, try it. Sure the genders are reversed for the love triangle, but you can still carry on your shipping frenzy there if you got into it.
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Old 2008-04-11, 21:59   Link #3862
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Vampire Knight is nothing like Kimikiss. You can't tell me they are just because of a love triangle.
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Old 2008-04-11, 22:02   Link #3863
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
I guess I'm the only KimiKiss fanatic (apart from maybe DKZ) that thinks Vampire Knight is great, lol.

C'mon Lego, try it. Sure the genders are reversed for the love triangle, but you can still carry on your shipping frenzy there if you got into it.
Kure-nai is my series of the season, should be good even with all the female characters. My "frenzy" was less shipping and more of a "wow, these two characters should be together". I keep saying it but I wasn't trying to "gain points" or "predict a winner", but I genuinely thought and was estatic to see them end up together at the end. I agree with my fellow poster(can't remember the name off the top of my head) where he said that it actually turned into an emotional thing where you wanted Kouichi and Mao together.

At least the ending satisfied that and left it there without a shadow of a doubt that they're pretty much life partners together.


As for Vampire Knight, not really my thing. I'm more of a Planetes, Emma, Black Lagoon, GITS SAC, FMP, R.O.D TV guy. I have weird tastes and when I get into a show, I get into a show.
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Old 2008-04-11, 22:10   Link #3864
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Golthin, tried Vampire Knight yet? Some see it as their replacement for KimiKiss and/or True Tears, yours truly included.

BTW Lego, exactly how many posts do you have in this thread? You can check by hovering your mouse over the icon to the left of the title, in the fansubbed section.
i watched the first episode and it did not click with me! Kimikiss and true tears got me at the first episode. I will keep watching to see if it gets better.
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Old 2008-04-11, 22:22   Link #3865
DragoonKain3
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Well, considering KimiKiss basically strung that love triangle for the entire series like True Tears, and Vampire Knight had the two main LIs almost at each other throats from the get go, I assumed they're going to string that love triangle to the very end as well. And from the looks of it, it's going to take focus like in the other two shows.

But eh, I thought KimiKiss was closer to Clannad than to True Tears, so YMMV.
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Old 2008-04-11, 23:27   Link #3866
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
As for the seiyuus, despite the star studded cast, I still think that Ikezawa wins the best performance award for this show. And no, that's not my bias speaking; I truly thought she brought Mao's character to life... from sadness to joy, and laughter to tears, and especially playful to depressed, she really showcased the many different phases of Mao.
Oh yes, I definitely agree with that assessment. I haven't heard this seiyuu before nor do I remember encountering her in some other anime before, so as I was watching the episodes, I kept asking myself "Who is this woman?"

She really brought her character to life during critical scenes. For example, I like how there's this very slight change in her voice when she cries, as if she's making a small effort in speaking straight. (episode 24).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego
As for Vampire Knight, not really my thing. I'm more of a Planetes, Emma, Black Lagoon, GITS SAC, FMP, R.O.D TV guy. I have weird tastes and when I get into a show, I get into a show.
Haha, I think I've found my clone!
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Old 2008-04-12, 00:38   Link #3867
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Well you can certainly say Kimikiss was a series of triangles. Had the Kouichi triangle, Mao triangle, Kazuki triangle. Admitting that the Kouichi and Mao ones overlapped, and Kai dropped out well before the end.

On the Vampire Knight side of it....I just never found the ability to get into things with vampires. Only thing that comes to mind is, it's my blood and no one else can have it .
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Old 2008-04-18, 23:22   Link #3868
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Well you can certainly say Kimikiss was a series of triangles. Had the Kouichi triangle, Mao triangle, Kazuki triangle. Admitting that the Kouichi and Mao ones overlapped, and Kai dropped out well before the end.
However the only thing in the whole series that Kai never droped out on is his passion for the sax, thats all i don't think you can say that he 'droped' out of the triangle like that, to me Kai is just a lay-back guy and didn't expect him to some what compete ....

On that note, i thought the resolution of this series was rather badly string together by the events that had happened, there was hints of it for a while (just stating the obvious), as the love triangle goes (Mao, Yśmi, Kouichi) i thought after been together this long (Yśmi X Kouichi) Yśmi would have aleast tried to keep Kouichi beside her instead of just throwing everything away because she is transfering away, all for nothing i think, if she was the character who could just throwing all the relationships away like that so quickly and easily without having a fight then why did she start a relationship with Kouichi??? from this point of view i think Yśmi was some what using Kouichi as a memory of this place although i personally think that is was very unfortunate for Yśmi, i can't help but think that this is unpleasent with her actions in the last episode....
(prove me wrong please !!!)
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Old 2008-04-19, 08:43   Link #3869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
But eh, I thought KimiKiss was closer to Clannad than to True Tears, so YMMV.
And it still shocks me everytime you say this
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Originally Posted by Taricitous View Post
i thought after been together this long (Yśmi X Kouichi) Yśmi would have aleast tried to keep Kouichi beside her instead of just throwing everything away because she is transfering away, all for nothing i think, if she was the character who could just throwing all the relationships away like that so quickly and easily without having a fight then why did she start a relationship with Kouichi??? from this point of view i think Yśmi was some what using Kouichi as a memory of this place although i personally think that is was very unfortunate for Yśmi, i can't help but think that this is unpleasent with her actions in the last episode....
(prove me wrong please !!!)
Oh no...not this again

Perhaps Yumi fans is struck with too much love for her.

Imo, the reason why the ending with her was so great was because she didn't do the most obvious and cliched thing that she could have done, what was to force herself to make Kouichi stay by herside even though she knows well enough that he is in love with Mao.

That sort of denial attitude would have just killed off her character for me as being a text book example of how not to have a relationship. But yet, she took the mature and more gutsy approach to just "let go" of the past.

Honestly, It is made completely clear to her that Kouichi is no longer in love with her as he once was. Now if this didn't wake her up it just makes Yumi a dodgy character, abit a selfish one as well. Now the more mature way to think of this is that she is happy that the one she loves is happy rather than go on a yandere rampage.

It is an unfortunate end for her though I have to admit. But that is life, you win some and you lose some. She us doing the right thing by not letting the past hold her back.
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Old 2008-04-19, 09:18   Link #3870
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The ending was the series's strongest point, but it still was good throughout. Still, it left a bad taste in my mouth.
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Old 2008-04-19, 09:32   Link #3871
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I respect Yumi for making the right decision and moving on with little hesitation, but Kouichi is a different story. First of all I watched 23 episodes of Yumi and Kouichi development only to see in the last 2 minutes of episode 24 that Kouichi has apparently fallen head over heals in love with Mao, almost completely forgetting about Yumi. I have to say how considerate of him to tell Yumi he loved Mao (not) and then running to Mao and having a lovey dovey ending. He felt almost no guilt. This is where the series crashes and burns. I grew incredibly tired of Kouichi spacing out all the time, quite frankly Kouichi is the epitomy of a weak man who couldn't keep a promise. Since I hate the main character the series takes a big knock. I was very happy with the other pairing and how they built it up but unfortunatly not enough so for me to rate the series anything above a 6/10.

It seemed to be going well for around 20 episodes and then became angsty and unfullfilling. Special mention to some great characters like Kai (very refreshing compared to Kouichi), Futami and Hoshino. Most were good in fact except Kouichi.

At least I did learn a few things from watching, so not a complete waste of my time.
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Old 2008-04-19, 19:57   Link #3872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashi-san View Post
but Kouichi is a different story. First of all I watched 23 episodes of Yumi and Kouichi development only to see in the last 2 minutes of episode 24 that Kouichi has apparently fallen head over heals in love with Mao, almost completely forgetting about Yumi. I have to say how considerate of him to tell Yumi he loved Mao (not) and then running to Mao and having a lovey dovey ending. He felt almost no guilt. This is where the series crashes and burns. I grew incredibly tired of Kouichi spacing out all the time, quite frankly Kouichi is the epitomy of a weak man who couldn't keep a promise.
Haha thats what i thought too, how can one trust Kouichi with his promises, well at least he realize that he cant keep them
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Old 2008-04-19, 20:30   Link #3873
kujoe
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Originally Posted by kakashi-san View Post
First of all I watched 23 episodes of Yumi and Kouichi development only to see in the last 2 minutes of episode 24 that Kouichi has apparently fallen head over heals in love with Mao, almost completely forgetting about Yumi.
It's actually less than 23 episodes of development, but too long nonetheless. It goes into a different direction after a while. No, in fact, the development isn't as clear cut as that. While things are going smooth with Yuumi, cracks are already beginning to appear.

But I agree with your point about Kouichi breaking his promise. And yet on the other hand, it's also not right to keep a promise that would ultimately end up hurting each other in the long run. It would've been nice if the ending emphasized this sentiment more instead of closing the story a bit too early.
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Old 2008-04-20, 02:56   Link #3874
Deathkillz
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It seemed to be going well for around 20 episodes and then became angsty and unfullfilling.
Actually, if you look back, their relationship reached a standstill once they kissed in ep 15. From that point I couldn't see any more development between the two or any indication that their love was getting any deeper.

By the end of ep 18 the bomb has already hit and his feelings have been swayed already. You could call him weakminded for changing his mind but I do believe that he thought deeply about who he loved more.
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Old 2008-04-20, 06:12   Link #3875
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It's actually less than 23 episodes of development, but too long nonetheless. It goes into a different direction after a while. No, in fact, the development isn't as clear cut as that. While things are going smooth with Yuumi, cracks are already beginning to appear.
The cracks are represented by Kouichi spacing out. Wow deep thought represented by a blank face, how exciting. You better bet I'm gonna prefer KouichixHoshino then KouichixMao when they spend so long making them such an adorable couple. If they do plan to break them up the cracks better make sence and better be logical. They were not. The flow of the story seemed to change far too abruptly. Fan service.

Quote:
But I agree with your point about Kouichi breaking his promise. And yet on the other hand, it's also not right to keep a promise that would ultimately end up hurting each other in the long run. It would've been nice if the ending emphasized this sentiment more instead of closing the story a bit too early.
I feel as if they made up reasons for Kouichi to love Mao in the last episode. Maybe he prefered her hairstyle? He promised not to make her cry again...so what? He made a much more meaningful promise to Hoshino. I have to say I was moved by the water fountain scene. I don't like the fact that they gave Kouichi and Hoshino so much development and then basically threw it all away in such a cold manner. It seemed to be for the sake of a plot no jutsu. I agree Kouichi confession to Hoshino should have been much more heart felt, instead he seemed to be in a rush to kiss Mao. I don't know how anyone could go straight from dumping a girl they loved so much to acting all heroic leaping over rails. I don't like how they depicted that scene.

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Actually, if you look back, their relationship reached a standstill once they kissed in ep 15. From that point I couldn't see any more development between the two or any indication that their love was getting any deeper.
True partly because he was being an idiot and ignoring her. Like Mao said Kouichi was like a man for the first time with Hoshino. I admired him. Now what is he? Back to square one.

Quote:
By the end of ep 18 the bomb has already hit and his feelings have been swayed already. You could call him weakminded for changing his mind but I do believe that he thought deeply about who he loved more.
Most likely he did love both but I disagree he didn't think deeply. He seemed to pretty much ignore Hoshino for the most part, only when he was forced to be with her. Basically I felt the ending made no sence, they rushed it and was probably fan service to Mao fans. It's a shame the series could have been great.
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Old 2008-04-20, 07:23   Link #3876
kujoe
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Originally Posted by kakashi-san View Post
The cracks are represented by Kouichi spacing out. Wow deep thought represented by a blank face, how exciting. You better bet I'm gonna prefer KouichixHoshino then KouichixMao when they spend so long making them such an adorable couple. If they do plan to break them up the cracks better make sence and better be logical. They were not. The flow of the story seemed to change far too abruptly. Fan service.
Actually, Yuumi makes a few "blank" faces too. Is that how everything must be viewed, that they have to be spelled out plainly? Even better, is that all there is to the story? And when I meant by "cracks" I meant it with regard to the bigger picture, or rather in relation to the way the story presents itself. There are a few significant foreshadowing clues that are just too hard to ignore.

Figures it had to be one pair versus the other... Usually, the final episode thread (despite the interesting insight offered by some folks) usually boils down to cheering, ranting and then sourgraping. (Yes, she won! Stupid ending! He doesn't deserve her anyway! Pick a line.)

Frankly, I don't care which pair you prefer. I was just pointing out the contrary that such developments don't occur after episode 23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashi-san
I feel as if they made up reasons for Kouichi to love Mao in the last episode. Maybe he prefered her hairstyle? He promised not to make her cry again...so what? He made a much more meaningful promise to Hoshino.
Those promises are essentially the same in spirit (both are commitments), of which one isn't fulfilled. How one becomes more "meaningful" over the other depends on one's bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashi-san
I don't like the fact that they gave Kouichi and Hoshino so much development and then basically threw it all away in such a cold manner. It seemed to be for the sake of a plot no jutsu.
I think this is a flaw with the series itself. It spends too much time developing Kouichi and Yuumi's relationship, when it should've been cut earlier as it was the intention all along. Then again, Kimikiss does involve three love triangles, which I suppose, justifies the 20+ episodes. And of course it's for the sake of a plot. Stories need one after all.

I disagree with it remaining in square one. No matter which way it could've ended, it won't ever be a "back to square one".
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Old 2008-04-20, 13:29   Link #3877
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I think this is a flaw with the series itself. It spends too much time developing Kouichi and Yuumi's relationship, when it should've been cut earlier as it was the intention all along. Then again, Kimikiss does involve three love triangles, which I suppose, justifies the 20+ episodes. And of course it's for the sake of a plot. Stories need one after all.
I'm not sure I would say it's a "flaw with the series" but more like a "consequence of the series's structure". It's a story that's heavily weighted towards the finale/climax episode, and everything in the story leads to the "big resolution" there. That's basically a structural choice made by the director and Rikei Tsuchiya, who did the Series Composition. In that model, the important thing is to not resolve things until the last minute, but hint strongly that not all's right with the world (i.e. give people a reason to keep watching).

As with all shounen romantic triangle-based anime stories, the hinge is "heart commitment", meaning determining the one whom the protagonist's heart is truly longing for. And, almost invariably, this longing is developed (in the show) through absense/distance. And of course, like clockwork, and as you said, there will always be those who prefer the initial pairing and find their courtship more appealing/palatable. It's just the nature of the thing, I guess.
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Old 2008-04-20, 14:29   Link #3878
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I suppose that's a better way of putting it.

This is also goes back to the resolution not turning out to be a more balanced payoff to all the drama that unfolds beforehand. Well, at least for me anyway. In that way, I can understand why some people think the change is too sudden. Simply put, I think the story needs that extra aftermath episode. While everything is accounted for in the end, we can't help asking ourselves new questions.
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Old 2008-04-21, 11:03   Link #3879
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I'm not sure I would say it's a "flaw with the series" but more like a "consequence of the series's structure".
Exactly, if you look back from episode 1, you'd realize that small hints that started growing as the episodes elapsed indicate that he'll be choosing Mao in the end. It's like having a bucket of water with a small hole in it, where no matter how small it is, it will drain the bucket out of water eventually. That's this series's only and major weak point.
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Old 2008-04-21, 12:14   Link #3880
DragoonKain3
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And here I thought it was a feature, not a bug.

That's really the main reason why I loved this series. Instead of the main guy flip flopping between one girl or another for pretty much the entire series, repeatedly destroying whatever build-up they had for any girl by doing so, this show has Kouichi slowly but definitely surely growing towards Mao right till the very end. A great change of pace from your regular harem anime, or even from recent straight love triangles in order to 'avoid' becoming predictable. And for me, this series basically illustrates that being 'predictable' isn't a bad thing if it's well executed, just like with all other things.

As I quoted before in this thread, "There are no coincidences; only hitsuzen." Every seemingly tiny and insignificant event points, and leads to, a single inevitable route. Of course, there's red herrings to keep things unrepetitive (ala Kai and Yuumi, and even then they took part in pointing to this inevitable route), but that's pretty much what I have been taught to look/write for in a good plot.
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