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Old 2008-08-12, 21:53   Link #1941
shelter
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@Yosei:

Not a bad ending. Although for everything to come to conclusion in 1 chapter was rather fast. You killed off the villain, pulled out your trump card & it seems all happily ever after for everyone with the peace accord. Truthfully I was expecting something like everyone coming to battle the Emperor. That the Emperor would actually awaken was too heavily-hinted at to be a secret, but that he would actually spare (accept is a better word) Miria & the humans was a surprise.

Speaking of which, when it was mentioned that most of the warfare against the human race was conducted via Panzuzu, I was a bit taken aback. I had the impression Anu had begun the war, prolonged it & when he slept both Dimuzi & Panzuzu saw through the war's ups-and-downs, including a previous chapter's flashback where Dimuzi met the Lord Carmelo.

Looked at in isolation, the banquet part is a greatly written scene. I love the dialogue It fits in so well with Miria & Cid especially. Clare & Galk's conversation is more informative than character-based, but I think it did help to make less obvious a particular glaring hole: the absence of Galatea & Cynthia. As Hell mentioned, why you choose to exclude them right the end is puzzling. It did not affect the story or its conclusion, but it did affect the readers (I think).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosei View Post
I will miss this hobby. I don't expect you guys to miss my writing, but I hope you've enjoyed the ride.
Are you kidding? Of course we will miss your stories! Where am I going to get my twice-a-week dose of Claymore fanfiction from now on??

That said, I know I'm probably the most anal & harsh critic of everyone's stories. I should start writing more of my own so everyone can return the favour But for you to have written all that content in such a short time is just plain marvellous.

Can't wait to see how to wrap everything up in the Epilogue.
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Old 2008-08-13, 00:46   Link #1942
Yosei
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In the practical narrative, it would be illogical for Galatea and Cynthia to have fought alongside the alliance in the final battle, especially after Galatea explicitly left the Isles in disgust with Cynthia several chapters ago. I could pull something out like thus: Galatea changes her mind at the last moment, and that they have been following the others all along. But yeah... I also didn't like how my two favourite characters dropped out of the climax, but I actually think it's more believable that way. And looking on the bright side, at least, those two are sure to survive in the new world. And sorry for the "1 Chapter conclusion". It seems my story was too long for 12 chapters, yet too short for 13 chapters. >.> Did it seem too rushed?

I hope the lenient personality of the Emperor was a pleasant rather than an unpleasant surprise. I designed him to be a severe, conflicted character who's in fact well aware of the interconnectedness of life (an allusion to this is his hinted close relationship with the spiritual leaders of the Dragons, the shamans). As Emperor, he has had the unenviable duty of maintaining the traditional facade of severity and strictness, to the point of continuing the War his Ancestors started. If anything, his son gave him the perfect excuse to abandon this cause he already was not too keen on. Although his role in the war, while significant, remember the Enchanter General has a very strong grip of authority on the Dragon armies. Pazuzu exploited this loophole to genocidal proportions, especially when Anu fell into his seasonal Fimbulwinter slumber.

Frankly, I think the "tyrannical monarch whose son is of a more liberal attitude" archetype is overused. anu's not that kind of ruler. It was refreshing for me to write of a king who was inclined to agree with his son after having been quite quickly convinced.


@ Hell: I'll ruin my whole story for you and just say it now: no, Irene and Raki don't really appear. Sorry. Too much going on, and I might unwittingly cheapen their appearance anyway. XD
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Old 2008-08-13, 09:04   Link #1943
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Lol no one posted here in the time I posted my last reply? You gotta wonder how often I come on this thread.

P.S. I freely admit I am really proud of this Epilogue. I believe it tied everything together in an appropriate manner, and I thought the last part (won't say what it is) was very sweet even considering how often I've written about *love from Cynthia's perspective*. All in all, I put a lot of effort into this whole thing, and is (hopefully) the best possible ending to my fanfic.

I hope you have enjoyed the journey with Cynthia, Galatea, and the others. I hope the long road from Rabona to Darene to Mt. Sumeru and all the way back again was an exciting and fun road. And I hope you also share in the triumph of Miria and Dumuzi's "new age". And now, I lay my story to rest and pass on the baton to you guys. Please continue this fanfic thread, and we'll all bask in a "new age" of fun stories!

Cheers,

Raymond



Spoiler for space:




Spoiler for !!:
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Last edited by Yosei; 2008-08-14 at 02:02.
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Old 2008-08-13, 10:39   Link #1944
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A fitting end @Yosei. Beautifully crafted, each and every word of it. Sad that Miria left, but I guess she made the right choice. And the conclusion was nicely done too. Congrats on completing the saga and giving us the privilege of being a part of a true masterpiece in writing.
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Old 2008-08-13, 11:13   Link #1945
shelter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosei View Post
In the practical narrative, it would be illogical for Galatea and Cynthia to have fought alongside the alliance in the final battle, especially after Galatea explicitly left the Isles in disgust with Cynthia several chapters ago.
Practically speaking: yes. As let down as I am that the 2 original characters of the saga did not see through to the climax of the narrative, it was (and is) ultimately a narrative decision for exclusion. With the unexpected ending, though, this issue has become just a short surprise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosei View Post
And sorry for the "1 Chapter conclusion". It seems my story was too long for 12 chapters, yet too short for 13 chapters. >.> Did it seem too rushed?
A bit perhaps. It just appeared so much resolution was going on in that chapter. Panzuzu got slaughtered without (visibly) laying a hand on any of the Ghosts. And the change of mood occurred within several sentences.

1 possible improvement would've been to prolong the dialogue. It was quite considerable, but you summarized some parts: Galk & Anu, Dimuzi & Miria, and of course not forgetting that Riful got sidelined a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosei View Post
I think the "tyrannical monarch whose son is of a more liberal attitude" archetype is overused. Anu's not that kind of ruler.
I agree wholeheartedly. When talking/ writing about monarchy, there are only so many stereotypes to fall back on. An awakened Anu was either going to come to terms with Dimuzi's beliefs, or consolidate his hold on power by removing everyone from view. And the latter scenario would've been a bit unthinkable.

Anyway, being a former political science student, I can really - and I mean it sincerely - appreciate some aspects of political philosophy you used in the Anu-Panzuzu dialogue. It was a great way to build up the suspense over Anu's intentions.

I'll write a review on your Epilogue once I get the energy to do it. I've only read halfway as of now. I'd want to get a full perspective on it before I comment.
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Old 2008-08-13, 17:43   Link #1946
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Originally Posted by Yosei View Post
Lol no one posted here in the time I posted my last reply? You gotta wonder how often I come on this thread.

P.S. I freely admit I am really proud of this Epilogue. I believe it tied everything together in an appropriate manner, and I thought the last part (won't say what it is) was very sweet even considering how often I've written about *love from Cynthia's perspective*. All in all, I put a lot of effort into this whole thing, and is (hopefully) the best possible ending to my fanfic.

I hope you have enjoyed the journey with Cynthia, Galatea, and the others. I hope the long road from Rabona to Darene to Mt. Sumeru and all the way back again was an exciting and fun road. And I hope you also share in the triumph of Miria and Dumuzi's "new age". And now, I lay my story to rest and pass on the baton to you guys. Please continue this fanfic thread, and we'll all bask in a "new age" of fun stories!

Cheers,

Raymond



Spoiler for space:




Spoiler for !!:
That was a great end to your fic, I'm glad with how it went. Like Ryuken said it was beautifully crafted. I also liked how you put those major battles at the end. Almost like they were summaries.

Anyways here is my next chapter.

Spoiler for renegade warrior chapter twenty-two:
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Old 2008-08-13, 18:52   Link #1947
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Oh dear Hell, it seems you've made Galatea, like uber. I didn't expect the Twins to fall that easily. I thought this was a more "suspenseful" chapter than usual, as in there were lots of things happening. I did like the overall mood of the chapter, especially when Orsay offered the Twins a "workout". I also like how you actually made the Ghosts attack the Organization's headquarters directly. It's such a straightforward, effective option. Don't know who the guy is at the end, but I'm sure you'll explain it eventually.

@ shelter: So you're a former political science, huh? (I stuck with philosophy and religion all the way till I graduated). Much of Anu's own political attitude was inspired from various ancient Chinese sages of war, whilst Pazuzu's beliefs were more of a fiery, volatile revolutionary's. Ironically, Anu who is of a far older generation, is more willing to accept the turning of the wheel of history as opposed to Pazuzu, who has a very narrow-minded and bigoted conception of rulership.

Now you've made me regret summarizing the dialogue between Galk and Anu. Oh goodness!!! The potential for an awesome conversation between the two rulers of the world!!! Why?!?
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Old 2008-08-13, 20:14   Link #1948
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Originally Posted by Yosei View Post
Oh dear Hell, it seems you've made Galatea, like uber. I didn't expect the Twins to fall that easily. I thought this was a more "suspenseful" chapter than usual, as in there were lots of things happening. I did like the overall mood of the chapter, especially when Orsay offered the Twins a "workout". I also like how you actually made the Ghosts attack the Organization's headquarters directly. It's such a straightforward, effective option. Don't know who the guy is at the end, but I'm sure you'll explain it eventually.
I see you noticed how suspenceful my chapter was. Yes I made it like that because I didn't want so many things to have leaked out from the organization, Clare and Irene found out that the leaders were going to the other continent, and Dracul see's someone he knows at the end from the other continent. I figured this would raise a lot of speculation out of people. I think its working so far. As for the twins, if I didn't have Dracul fighting Alicia then Miria and Galatea would have had a more harder time against Beth. I'm not sure what will happen to Beth in my next fic though. Anyways that was the end of Renegade Warrior, the fic I'm creating next will just be continued off of this one. I still haven't made a name for it yet.
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Old 2008-08-14, 23:29   Link #1949
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well I'm back and since every ones else seems to be writing longish stories i might as well join the band wagon considering i though up what i think would fit the bill nicely.

Anyway as fair warning I sort of butchered the beginning/intro/prologue/whatchamacallit (haven't used the tense I used in a long time (heck i haven't written anything in a long time) and was impatient to start the real story to write a good beginning but it works.) anyway the other chapters will be better by far i promise

Spoiler for overview:

Spoiler for those without a home:
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Old 2008-08-15, 00:30   Link #1950
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Hi weirdo, it seems it's gotten off to a pretty cool start, but would you be able to remind me why there are male Claymores in your fanfic? I remember you wrote one with Nathan in it a while ago, does it continue from that continuity there? Also one or two typos: I think you meant to say "rogue" but you said "rouge" instead.

@ shelter: oh yes, I must admit, I'm looking forward to your final review. Your reviews have always given me a lot of possibilities to work on and your interpretations of events not only match mine but go beyond in many ways.
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Old 2008-08-17, 08:55   Link #1951
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Hello weirdo. Long time no see

On your story, I see your Nathan has made a very prominent appearance in the first installment. Like most of your stories, it has a kind of complicated plot behind one very awesome character (Nathan, or maybe it's because I've read all your background on him with your previous stories).

I feel it's quite a good opening. However, there's just 1 small problem:

Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdo487 View Post
Anyway as fair warning I sort of butchered the beginning/intro/prologue/whatchamacallit (haven't used the tense I used in a long time (heck i haven't written anything in a long time) and was impatient to start the real story to write a good beginning but it works.) anyway the other chapters will be better by far i promise
Even though without an intro or prologue it can more or less hold its own, I think one would help to explain the events in paragraphs 2-5. They come across as unnecessarily rushed. You could either craft up an intro to explain them, expand them into a section or take them out & use them as the intro. They warrant greater elaboration because they are almost a side-plot in themselves.
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Old 2008-08-17, 21:01   Link #1952
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Looks like this thread is becoming pretty quiet.

Yosei, this is the overall review on Nocturne as I promised.

Narrative (& Narrative Style)

There isn't very much to say here that hasn't been said in Darkness Falls. Simply put, your writing style has always impressed upon me a kind of epic, grand quality - that you're writing for a Tolkien-ish scenario rather than a short 12 chapters. Your language & tone is both fitting & adaptable enough for the extended story, which covered quite a lot of themes. Needless to say, the best part about your narrative style is always the dialogue: witty, tense & thoughtful banter. Dialogue is meant to move the story forward - good that you seem to unconsciously have that in mind for almost every line your character's speak

Because Nocturne essentially is a non-canon story, my only grouse in the story is that 10 plus chapters is way too short to craft an adequate culture (in short, giving the reader a full glimpse of the potential) of the Dragon nations. The settings, peoples & backgrounds associated with the canon took close to 80 chapters by Yagi to develop - and are still being developed - so just over 10 chapters might not have done you the creative justice you wished. But I see this as more of a structural problem than anything else.


Character Development

I think you know where I'm going with this - most of my comments on Nocturne have been chiefly on character. I think that the strength of the characters did suffer from the absence of 4 deceased Ghosts: Clare & Raphaela did not seem to be much other than consenting partners who always got owned & beyond 1 very powerful chapter, Galatea & Cynthia are essential the same from Darkness Falls.

Most of your Dragon characters were much more developed. Panzuzu, I think, is the most believable of all of them; there's both a motive & "humane" side to him. Dimuzi & Anu are a bit one dimensional, but there were some moments of brilliance in their actions. Inanna, I felt, didn't do much at all - what was her overall contribution to the story?

Of course, it seems your key focus has been on Miria. And, despite what other people say, I think that this "side" of Miria you pulled off quite well. It's one thing to keep her very leader-like, focused & ambitious, but another let her actions show her emotionally-insecure (unstable?) & distracted - for once.

As for Riful & Dauf, even though they were a bit sidelined, every appearance they made in the story was good enough to justify their presence.


Structure & POV

There were some points when the story went a bit too fast, like I mentioned previously. At others, I thought a long, overly descriptive scene could've been modified with either more dialogue or structured in a different sequence. Some examples I can think offhand are Dimuzi & Inanna's introduction (beyond bringing in 2 new characters, I wonder how could that scene be more relevant?) & Dimuzi's flashback meeting with Carmelo.

I also wondered what Nocturne would have been like seen in the POV of either Miria or Clare - especially since I like to experiment with 1st POV. Or even Riful. The possibilities for any of these are endless, but at least for the purposes of storytelling, your continuous switching of POV worked. It did leave some gaps in our knowledge (like what happened to Clare & Raphaela, Riful & Dauf at some points). But it was generally all right.

------------------------

I do understand I only pull out the strings to come up with such structured comments after long, long stories. But if any of you wish me to do the same with any of your stories, just ask me. I know I'm very biased & careful in my views, but hopefully with mutual comments we all can improve as writers.
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Old 2008-08-18, 01:06   Link #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelter View Post
Hello weirdo. Long time no see

On your story, I see your Nathan has made a very prominent appearance in the first installment. Like most of your stories, it has a kind of complicated plot behind one very awesome character (Nathan, or maybe it's because I've read all your background on him with your previous stories).

I feel it's quite a good opening. However, there's just 1 small problem:



Even though without an intro or prologue it can more or less hold its own, I think one would help to explain the events in paragraphs 2-5. They come across as unnecessarily rushed. You could either craft up an intro to explain them, expand them into a section or take them out & use them as the intro. They warrant greater elaboration because they are almost a side-plot in themselves.
@ Shelter
Well actually its a different Nathan this time (although quite similar.)
Technically that first thing was intended to be an intro and summery of the prologue and I do intend to expand on pretty much all of it. in the chapters to come. Or I may do little side chapters on the story it self with those being themes of a few of them.

anyway here is the official chapter one

Spoiler for chapter one those without a home:
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Old 2008-08-18, 01:16   Link #1954
Yosei
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Well I'm waiting for Hell and weirdo to return, where have they gone with their promised fanfics?

edit: My post came right after weirdo's new chapter, will get down to reading it.

I won't really answer too much the criticisms and advice because sometimes if you really want to be open-minded without being subconsciously not, you just have to take it on the chin and really just let the criticism sink in. Having said that, there are 3 major "regrets" I have for this story (I hate that word)

1. Inanna. Oh dear, what a waste of potential. And in so many ways! Originally I had intended for her to be part of my "dark" storytelling given her incest with Dumuzi, but due to chapter constraints and my inability to believably fit her back into the story post-chapter 7 (which I WAS planning to do), I had to literally cut short her life, because in all honesty she WASN'T meant to die. She was supposed to bask in the glory of the new world alongside her family and the alliance. And what happens? I end up writing of Anu's pain. Not really my original plan, but it had its good points I guess.

2. Chapter structure. When I suddenly tell you that I had to cut out an entire planned chapter from the novel, you can tell my planning wasn't as good as Darkness Falls. And quite frankly, I do feel a bit sad that the Dragon Nations could only been shown in 13 chapters. Some of the chapters do feel like as if the potential dissipated; i.e. chapter 12, where Galk and Anu could have had a proper convo, thus not making it seemed rush, the flashback between Dumuzi and Carmelo, where I had intended for the plot to develop more there but didn't have the conditions to.

3. Galatea and Cynthia - along with the sidelined characters like Riful, Dauf, Clare, Raphaela. Sometimes I think I set my goals too high, especially for 13 chapters. If I get back to writing, I'm going to revert to the older style I used when I first started writing Claymore fics - that of the old Your Holiness style. Less epic, but more emotions. A good tradeoff.
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Old 2008-08-18, 16:59   Link #1955
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Well I'm waiting for Hell and weirdo to return, where have they gone with their promised fanfics?
Sorry I've been to busy to do any writing right now, I'm putting everything on hold for a little while.
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Old 2008-08-18, 17:18   Link #1956
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*Peers in*

Wow...I stop looking in....and I have a feeling I've missed well over 50 pages of backlog by now @.@
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Old 2008-08-18, 17:40   Link #1957
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*Peers in*

Wow...I stop looking in....and I have a feeling I've missed well over 50 pages of backlog by now @.@
Don't worry you haven't missed much. Only a few great stories in those last 50 pages. By only, well mostly by two people that have been writing the most.
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Old 2008-08-18, 23:44   Link #1958
Yosei
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Oh well, Weirdo can take it up for now I guess...

Sigh maybe it's because of the classical/choir music I usually listen to when I'm writing fics, but already I'm feeling restless. But you always feel sad once you type "The End" with the music still playing.

I'm wondering just how long my break can last...
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Old 2008-08-19, 12:06   Link #1959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosei View Post
I'm wondering just how long my break can last...
Real writers don't stop writing. They just take short rests, and then get back to the pen & paper

Until I can actually find time to sit down & think through the many ideas in my head, looks like Hell & Weirdo will be the leaders in Claymore fanfiction at the moment
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Old 2008-08-19, 15:17   Link #1960
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Originally Posted by shelter View Post
Real writers don't stop writing. They just take short rests, and then get back to the pen & paper

Until I can actually find time to sit down & think through the many ideas in my head, looks like Hell & Weirdo will be the leaders in Claymore fanfiction at the moment
I agree with you on that one @shelter. They are actually like repetitions. You will feel that it has stopped, and then, without any warning, it will come back before you know it. You will be running for the paper and pen again.
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