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Old 2007-06-09, 20:06   Link #1
quashoko
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naruto failing 3 times

naruto failed the graduation exam 3 times
sasuke, sakura, and the rest did not fail too, so how come they are the same age as naruto. or did he start earlier than they did?
i am sure sasuke could have passed the first 2 times, unless he was held back by his people. i am just a little confused on this.
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Old 2007-06-09, 20:36   Link #2
Mr. Johnny 5
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A rather interesting point. Sasuke was a genius and was probably just as long or longer then Naruto in the academy. Kiba joined obviously later on.

But it's possible that there are several tests but that you can only (when Naruto started) graduate when you are 12 years old. OR simply they failed the jounin/genin (to become a genin) test .

But i doubt that since all genins that we know:

Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke [Team Kakashi]
Hinata, Shino, Kiba [Team Kurenai]
Ino, Shikamaru, Chouji [Team Asuma]
Lee, Neji, Tenten [Team Gai]

All became genins at the age of 12. Only 9 of them were rookies though during the chuunin exam.

Good point.
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Old 2007-06-10, 00:44   Link #3
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u have to rmb that sasuke got pwned by his brother back then. he might have taken some time off the academy due to the shock and pwnage.

as for sakura and rest, thats a pretty good question. they might have started later, or they might have failed somewhere/sometime too.

then again, u cant expect the mangaka to explain every single detail....hes writing a manga afterall, not a novel....for that u have to ask J.K Rowling not to suck with harry potter when its out soon <3
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Old 2007-06-10, 01:06   Link #4
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Well, Kakashi graduated at 5, the Sannins at 6, Itachi an Gai at 7, Kurenai and Asuma at 9, Ebisu, Anko and Ibiki at 10. (according to the databooks) It's not like everyone took the final exam at 12.
I believe the ninjas are supposed to study for a certain number of years (until they are 12), but they can take the exams the year they want if they feel capable. Naruto just took the exam way too early for him. The plothole is not Naruto being the same age as the others, it's Neji and Sasuke graduating so late. But it's just meant to give Naruto some strong rivals
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Old 2007-06-10, 04:13   Link #5
Mr. Johnny 5
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Well, Kakashi graduated at 5, the Sannins at 6, Itachi an Gai at 7, Kurenai and Asuma at 9, Ebisu, Anko and Ibiki at 10. (according to the databooks) It's not like everyone took the final exam at 12.
I believe the ninjas are supposed to study for a certain number of years (until they are 12), but they can take the exams the year they want if they feel capable. Naruto just took the exam way too early for him. The plothole is not Naruto being the same age as the others, it's Neji and Sasuke graduating so late. But it's just meant to give Naruto some strong rivals
Or the simple fact that he had no talent, no real friends, no family and lived terrible because of the people hating him.
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Old 2007-06-10, 07:07   Link #6
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Yeah you are right it doesnt make much sense for so many people to be in the same age as Naruto given that a lot of them (especially Sasuke and Gaara - wasnt Neji a year older?) had so much more natural talent...maybe Kishimoto will cover it up later altho maybe it's like people said .. a plothole.
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Old 2007-06-10, 07:28   Link #7
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They could have been assigned to stay in the class until everyone passed the final exam.

They did say when Naruto screws up they all end up paying for it.
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Old 2007-06-10, 10:51   Link #8
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by ChojinLocke View Post
Yeah you are right it doesnt make much sense for so many people to be in the same age as Naruto given that a lot of them (especially Sasuke and Gaara - wasnt Neji a year older?) had so much more natural talent...maybe Kishimoto will cover it up later altho maybe it's like people said .. a plothole.
That's right Neji is older. They werent rookies at the Chuunin Exam because they did plenty of missions before it.

But Gaara is just as old as Naruto. But obviously with his power even at a young age he could've taken out genins with ease...chuunins probably aswell.
I cant imagine that he (the 4th Kazekage) didnt send jounins to deal with Gaara though.

And i wonder why the Kazekage didnt send Gaara on S-Rank missions before the chuunin exam.
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Old 2007-06-10, 21:56   Link #9
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Originally Posted by Kyu410 View Post
They could have been assigned to stay in the class until everyone passed the final exam.

They did say when Naruto screws up they all end up paying for it.
Thats a little extreme dont you think? Since naruto doesnt graduate everyone is held behind with him? I doubt it.
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Last edited by BlackShinobi07; 2007-06-10 at 23:58.
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Old 2007-06-11, 06:18   Link #10
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Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07 View Post
Thats a little extreme dont you think? Since naruto doesnt graduate everyone is held behind with him? I doubt it.
It could have happened. I mean the chuunin all take their tests together.

But then again the hokage(3rd) could've just allowed Naruto to start at Sasuke, Sakura, and etc levels.
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Old 2007-06-11, 06:54   Link #11
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So Naruto failed his exams three times? Sounds a bit like Keitaro from Love Hina except he doesn't get hit by women anywhere near as often. ^_^
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Old 2007-06-11, 07:29   Link #12
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probably at the end of every academic year there is a final exam, much like our education system. 3 failed and a pass, meaning that they study for 4 years hence 4 exams. since naruto graduated with his class, i think that for the 3 times he failed, the sandaime advanced him up to the next academic year. just so that he can be with his peers.
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Old 2007-06-11, 17:01   Link #13
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Plothole... that's all there is too it...
Really, it's not the oly thing that is odd about the acedmy... another thing that's messed up is the fact the the entire exam is based on one jutsu... i mean, how many exams are based on a single question? the final exam should have multiple parts to test ever ability of the genin, not just a single jutsu... really, they can't possibly tell who could become a good genin based off of that... hell, Naruto failing the exam 3 times because he couldn't make a clone makes even less sense since Rock Lee managed to pass and he an't perfrom any jutsus... If Rock Lee can be a ninja who doesn't make clones, then why not Naruto? Where Naruto fails in making clones, he can be successful else where

Then there's the follow up test done by the Jounins... now, this is a bit more like how the final exam for the acedemy should be since it can be used to test multiple parts of a students abilities... however, what's messed up is that they limit the number of genins to only 9 out of 27 students. bascially, 18 of the students could potentially be just as good as the other 9, but are held back due to a strict limit... it's true that they may only have funding to afford 9 genin per school year, but if that's the case then they should be selecting ONLY the 9 most skilled, but the way the jounin's test is done does NOT show them who is the most skilled of the 27 students... i mean really, Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurenai all passed their students; what if the jounins for teams 1-6 passed their students aswell, how do they determine which students actually pass and who doesn't; is one jounin's word stronger than the others, cause if so then those in the other groups are being treated unfairly...Really, the only way they could find the 9 best students is by testing each one seperatly; after which, they can take the 9 best and see if they can work as a team (since that was a major part of the exam)... hell, if each of jounins do test for teamwork as the most important thing, then two students who are perfect for genins might get screwed over because they got teamed up with a student who was terrible as a teamate

Really, it's a nice big plothole... Kishi wanted Naruto to be held back but wanted him to have peers his own age... so he makes poeple who could have easily graduated at an earlier age not graduate till they were 12 so that they would be with Naruto, and never explains why they didn't graduate early... At the same time, he only wanted 9 rookies (12 genin total), thus had the Jounin's test limit to only 9 passing... really, if he only wanted the 9 genin, then he should have made a final test that was better suited for testing which is the 9 best students, had the class only contain 9 students in the first place, or let a random number of students become genin, and just focus the story on the 9 he wants
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Old 2007-06-13, 17:18   Link #14
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naruto's just a complete idiot with no talent what so ever
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Old 2007-06-13, 19:04   Link #15
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
And i wonder why the Kazekage didnt send Gaara on S-Rank missions before the chuunin exam.
Gaara was messed up in the head. They didn't trust him.
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Old 2007-06-13, 19:42   Link #16
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The other answer is that it has been pointed out in the show that Konaha got a little bit more laid back then it used to be. Its possible that they decided they didnt want people graduating early, and that Naruto just demanded to take the test every year. Since naruto tends to be so persistent, its possible they eventually would just give in, and let him take it, expecting him to fail. The reason the others did not graduate earlier is that the others, at least when they were young, were more respectful of authority figures.

As for Gaara, until after the time skip, the sand did not have the same school setup. The reason they didnt send Gaara and team earlier seems to be that they didn't really care about the official 'class' of ninja. and the only reason they were sent in the end was to start the war.

Also, its possible that Naruto failed the exam 3 times at the same time. That is to say, he failed, and they told him 'try again tomorrow'
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Old 2007-06-13, 20:39   Link #17
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Plothole... that's all there is too it...
Really, it's not the oly thing that is odd about the acedmy... another thing that's messed up is the fact the the entire exam is based on one jutsu... i mean, how many exams are based on a single question? the final exam should have multiple parts to test ever ability of the genin, not just a single jutsu... really, they can't possibly tell who could become a good genin based off of that...
That test is just for graduation, and graduation from the academy does not guarantee anything at all. To officially/completely become a genin, don't they have to pass the test of their jounin leader? And, that test can be used to verify the level of that graduates. As for their initial test, I don't see any problem with the bunshin jutsu, it tests the basic ninjutsu skills for a ninja. And, bunshin jutsu is just one of the tests (as told by Naruto, they can be given different tests).

For failing three times, maybe he has to take three tests, and he has to pass at least one of them to be able to graduate when the graduation time comes. If there are other requirements, such as "everyone has to take every test", so no skipping is allowed, this explains, why everyone was taking even the last test. And, the score from the tests, can be used to rank the students in a more accurate way. I am sure you can explain that in many ways, hence, I doubt, it is a plot hole.
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Old 2007-06-13, 21:26   Link #18
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For failing three times, maybe he has to take three tests, and he has to pass at least one of them to be able to graduate when the graduation time comes. If there are other requirements, such as "everyone has to take every test", so no skipping is allowed, this explains, why everyone was taking even the last test. And, the score from the tests, can be used to rank the students in a more accurate way. I am sure you can explain that in many ways, hence, I doubt, it is a plot hole.

But that explanation contradicts what Naruto stated to Neji during the chuunin exams. He said that he failed the graduation exam 3 times and that he failed because the jutsu decided to be the test was always bunshin no jutsu. That means it wasn't a three-part exam composed of different tests. He failed 3 times.

The Academy pass/fail system, while detailed and creative, doesn't make much sense when you look at it more carefully. And it's chock full of logic contradictions and plot holes most which Slayerx mentioned. I have to agree with him there. But it's a forgivable plot hole. The academy hasn't been focused on much since the beginning of the story, so Kishi hasn't been forced to backpaddle and give an explanation for Naruto becoming a genin at the same time as his peers despite being held back 3 times.
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Old 2007-06-13, 21:49   Link #19
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But that explanation contradicts what Naruto stated to Neji during the chuunin exams. He said that he failed the graduation exam 3 times and that he failed because the jutsu decided to be the test was always bunshin no jutsu. That means it wasn't a three-part exam composed of different tests. He failed 3 times.
You don't have to think of it as a three-part exam. Let me take my comments back on the skipping part (as, that is something I used based on Iruka's words, that suggests many students took the last test with Naruto). Now, assume, during the last year, each student is given three chances for taking the graduation exam. So, each of them still counts as the graduation exam, as passing one would be sufficient for graduation (though if the grades can be used elsewhere, a student can take multiple times to increase his/her grade). Consider it as similar to the chuunin exam, as you can also take that exam multiple times, and each is considered as the final exam for becoming a chuunin. But, in our case, the student needs to continue to study in the academy during that year, regardless of their results, as we can assume a pre-determined graduation time.

Is there any contradiction in the scenario given above?

Quote:
The Academy pass/fail system, while detailed and creative, doesn't make much sense when you look at it more carefully. And it's chock full of logic contradictions and plot holes most which Slayerx mentioned.
For the contents of the exam, (assuming there are many) one of the translations (maybe the version published in English) mention that the tests might have multiple subjects, and bunshin belongs to the ninjutsu part. ("Naruto: ...the ninjutsu test on the final exam...")
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Old 2007-06-13, 22:38   Link #20
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Hmm I'm going to have to agree with Sazelyt. It really makes the most sense and its not so far from reality, in terms of test taking in the real world. I mean its obvious that Iruka and Naruto have a very good relationship as a Teacher and Student, maybe father and son, if not at least "older brother" relationship.

I feel like Naruto failing three times is more related to failing the Bunshin no Jutsu rather then the actual graduation exam. Meaning, Naruto was given chances by Iruka out side of class, or just a retake, and Naruto failed three times (It wouldn’t be uncommon Iruka spends allot of time with Naruto out side of the academy). It also wouldn’t be uncommon because we know how persistent Naruto can be, he probably begged Iruka or annoyed him till he agreed. I mean. . . that’s kind of how it happened didn’t it? When Naruto finally graduates. . . after saving Iruka that was like a retake.

Perhaps this is a chance for all students as Sazelyt stated, or was something just offered to Naruto because Iruka feels for him since he had a similar life style to Naruto in terms of not having parents and "acting up" to get attention and Iruka knows Naruto's determination will surely prevail. None the lest, it is the most logical explanation other then Plot hole no jutsu.
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