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Old 2012-06-30, 06:20   Link #5181
Battler-kun
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Kenichi is still a weakling
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Old 2012-06-30, 06:37   Link #5182
Kafriel
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Yup, he can take Apachai's attacks head-on, but Miu's get him keeling over the floor...makes 0 sense, because Kenichi could stand his ground against a brainwashed Miu who didn't hold back at all, so BS to this.
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Old 2012-06-30, 06:48   Link #5183
Merilyn Mensola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Is it ok for me to really start hating Miu? I'm just so sick of the Mary Sue that she is. All she does is continue to make Kenichi look weak and overshadows all his progress. It should be called "History's Strongest Disciple Miu" as Kenichi definitely isn't the strongest. His goal of protecting her is laughable because it seems the more he trains, the further away she gets.
i fell the same bro, is not really that i hate Miu..but..damn..i want to see Kenichi be like her, the fact that Kenichi now is able to practice with his masters like in this chapter is a sign that finally Kenichi grow-up..

but Matsuena really love Miu..can't be helped...i have saw more comment of people that started to "hate" Miu because of Matsuena still continue like this.., is funny because when Miu-Bulu fight against the other Demon disciple, she was already dead after five second, even if her speed was like this, she was unable to avoid his attacksand...and Kenichi save her ass..and then, in this chapter seems that Miu is like a god...and i hate it....

well, at last i have saw Kenichi do good against Akisame in this chapter, so i'm happy with this..and like i mentioned..i want to see the Elder training...this would make Kenichi strong..

Was funny the machine that Akisame built, "anti-Kenichi-kun torturous hell #28"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Yup, he can take Apachai's attacks head-on, but Miu's get him keeling over the floor...makes 0 sense, because Kenichi could stand his ground against a brainwashed Miu who didn't hold back at all, so BS to this.
I agree.
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Old 2012-06-30, 08:31   Link #5184
Fenrir_valindri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Yup, he can take Apachai's attacks head-on, but Miu's get him keeling over the floor...makes 0 sense, because Kenichi could stand his ground against a brainwashed Miu who didn't hold back at all, so BS to this.
Eh, it isn't like Apachai was fighting him, he just threw out an attack out of reflex that Kenichi didn't get 1-hit KO'd by.

Brainwashed Miu was kind of kicking Kenichi's ass before too, so it isn't that shocking. Kenichi has certainly gotten a lot better, but Miu improving just means the gap is about the same as before.

Keep in mind that Kenichi is the "talentless" one, while Miu is the granddaughter of the Elder and daughter of the One Shadow.
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Old 2012-06-30, 08:36   Link #5185
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Also Granpa said Miu got even stronger after Jenazard's brainwash/training.
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Old 2012-06-30, 08:43   Link #5186
Xaturas
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480 chapters and romance still is non existent, Kenichi still is a weakling, and masters still fool around.
Ehhhh I put this manga on hiatus at Miu kidnapping then read few last chapters, and now this new arc also seems to be lame. HSDK become a fanservice manga with miu body shots and the likes ...
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Old 2012-06-30, 09:02   Link #5187
Randrak42
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I did like Serious Kenichi this chapter though.
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Old 2012-06-30, 09:08   Link #5188
Merilyn Mensola
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Eh, it isn't like Apachai was fighting him, he just threw out an attack out of reflex that Kenichi didn't get 1-hit KO'd by.

Brainwashed Miu was kind of kicking Kenichi's ass before too, so it isn't that shocking. Kenichi has certainly gotten a lot better, but Miu improving just means the gap is about the same as before.

Keep in mind that Kenichi is the "talentless" one, while Miu is the granddaughter of the Elder and daughter of the One Shadow.

True, but Apachi when hit, is like he it to the death like always, and in this chapter, we saw that after Kenichi take Apachi hit and stand-up, all masters were impressed...and Miu explosive strength, isn't higher than Kenichi..only her speed is really higher than Kenichi...

True,brainwashed Miu was kicking Kenichi's ass before too, why? because the idiot still doesn't want to fight her seriously,Kenichi had perfect technique to fight with Miu, ryusui seikuken..but no, he used it for five second and stopped...basically, kenichi like always, didn't fight against Miu.

Yes..she is strong more than Kenichi, because she is the Kuremisago descendant(perfect body, genius,) Saiga daughter and she is the granddaughter of the invincible Super-man ,she has been trained since she was a child, however in this chapter is like her power( explosive power) grow-up like a god...imho, Miu five shots are nothing compared Apachi one hit..., so i didn't like the end of the chapter..and for me, Matsuena has to stop to put Miu in this way...
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Old 2012-06-30, 09:21   Link #5189
Fenrir_valindri
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Kenichi didn't block Miu's hits due to her speed advantage, not to mention she hit him a lot more then 5 times, including at least several to the face and chin. Apachi hit him once, and while he was in the air so he went flying away. Not to mention Kenichi was caught off guard, expecting Miu to be performing worse then usual, but instead she is doing better then ever.

Keep in mind, you don't need explosive power to do damage, you just need to hit the right places.
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Old 2012-06-30, 09:33   Link #5190
KLGChaos
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^Still, caught off guard or not, in the end, Miu completely undermines Kenichi's growth every time. Matsuena is completely failing on showing Kenichi's growth and has been for a long time now. Every time you think he's grown some, he just goes on to remind us just how weak Kenichi is. After nearly 500 chapters, it makes it hard to believe Kenichi will every actually reach his goal when each arc ends with every at the status quo. It's hard to get behind a protagonist when it happens every single time. It's all about Miu now and apparently, she's stronger than the Masters as she takes Kenichi down even easier than they do.

The worst part is that Kenichi's goal, and the main goal of the manga, is for him to become strong enough to protect her. However, with this last chapter, Matsuena has basically shown it's an impossible task. No matter how hard Kenichi trains, Miu will be able to surpass him easily with just a week of training and if she took up training seriously, she'd be a grand master within a couple years, while Kenichi would still be struggling as a disciple. So suddenly, one of the main selling points of the manga is... pointless.

Miu is like the Medaka of the manga, minus the attitude.
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Old 2012-06-30, 09:55   Link #5191
Merilyn Mensola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Kenichi didn't block Miu's hits due to her speed advantage, not to mention she hit him a lot more then 5 times, including at least several to the face and chin. Apachi hit him once, and while he was in the air so he went flying away. Not to mention Kenichi was caught off guard, expecting Miu to be performing worse then usual, but instead she is doing better then ever.

Keep in mind, you don't need explosive power to do damage, you just need to hit the right places.

Kenichi didn't need to block Miu hit..he just have to do ryusui seikuken to avoid her speed attack..and yes, i agree that was because Kenichi was expecting Miu to be a bit weak....., you have a point in it..but like always, is Matsuena that like to make it like this....

And i agree that power isn't everything..however Kenichi explosive power allowed him to win agains the Demon masked disciple(expert class) with one hit..when Miu can't do anything against him..

Basically, i think

Miu speed is higher than Kenichi
Kenichi explosive powers is higher than Miu
Kenichi endurance is higher than Miu

For techniques (strong techniques) i don't really know...Kenichi showed Mubyosi, Korui Nuki, Apanch, Chai kick, and Miu only Fuurinji Kouhouyoku..

for Experience, true, Miu has been trained since she was a child, however she has never fought in a deadly match, like Kenichi that always fight against people that are more strongest than him, the Elder said that if you are an expert class, and want become a master class, it takes time, he called it Experience time...i think that Kenichi is higher than Miu even in this...

But i admit, i really don't like the way Matsuena make Miu...so maybe is for this that i think that for me, they are already equal.
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Old 2012-06-30, 10:05   Link #5192
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So Kenichi is getting serious now but he is still afraid from Akisame's machine's.
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Old 2012-06-30, 11:00   Link #5193
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
^Still, caught off guard or not, in the end, Miu completely undermines Kenichi's growth every time. Matsuena is completely failing on showing Kenichi's growth and has been for a long time now. Every time you think he's grown some, he just goes on to remind us just how weak Kenichi is. After nearly 500 chapters, it makes it hard to believe Kenichi will every actually reach his goal when each arc ends with every at the status quo. It's hard to get behind a protagonist when it happens every single time. It's all about Miu now and apparently, she's stronger than the Masters as she takes Kenichi down even easier than they do.

The worst part is that Kenichi's goal, and the main goal of the manga, is for him to become strong enough to protect her. However, with this last chapter, Matsuena has basically shown it's an impossible task. No matter how hard Kenichi trains, Miu will be able to surpass him easily with just a week of training and if she took up training seriously, she'd be a grand master within a couple years, while Kenichi would still be struggling as a disciple. So suddenly, one of the main selling points of the manga is... pointless.
Miu was always above Kenichi from the start, so I don't see the big deal about her being better than him. Did you expect Miu to simply sit down and do nothing while Kenichi gets better? They're both getting better, but the simple fact is that Miu, being more talented and more experienced than Kenichi, has an advantage over him that isn't simply going to vanish instantly. When you consider the fact that Kenichi has been studying martial arts for less than 2 years, his growth rate is nothing less than phenomenal, especially considering he's supposed to be untalented.

In fact, he's even surpassed Miu in some ways. Just recently, she admitted that his ability to discern techniques was better than hers, and I'm sure his endurance is better than hers too. I can't understand how you can find it hard to believe that Kenichi would reach his goal when the manga has been beating us around the head with the idea of how people achieve goals: Not climbing towards it, but rather falling there. Kenichi, as has been mentioned many times is the sort of guy that even though it takes him awhile, will eventually get there.

As for the Miu beating Kenichi easier than the masters' part, if you're talking about this chapter, Akisame was deliberately going easy on Kenichi. Beating him in an instant isn't going to help him after all.

Quote:
Miu is like the Medaka of the manga, minus the attitude.
Yeah she is kind of like Medaka actually. I'll take that as a compliment.
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Old 2012-06-30, 11:27   Link #5194
leon4281isback
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"Talentless" one of the key words in my mind that just shows how much s**t kenichi has to go twice the struggle with martial arts because of that one word, "talentless" I do enjoy the manga, but what will always bugs me in this manga and any other future manga is this: what makes MC's like Kenichi, more specificially what the heck in their very being, in the whole freaking body, is making them become talentless to something like martial arts or anything else like that. Is it in the genes or what? Of course this is a fictional story so the author can do whatever the freak he wants with the story and the character's.

Of course I'm going off my hinges as I do have flaws in my statement. And no matter what is said, it's possibly that Matsuena can have this thing go on for awhile and elaborate on Miu's and kenichi's improvement and then compare them in a sparring match where Miu is still better than Kenichi on a few things. I haven't forgotten that Kenichi also has gotten a few things over her with his perception of techniques and endurance. It could take about 100 more chapters for all I know before there could be a point where maybe Kenichi will fare better again Miu without getting his butt kicked a few seconds in like we seen in this latest chapter. That maybe that all this training he goes through will knocked the talentless out of him.

It's Matsuena manga, all we readers can do is hope that Kenichi can do more and hope for the better than he can get there. Of course with the word eventually (and I hate that word).

Let me tell you...with this new arc and the fact that Matsuena might keeping making Kenichi do these things numerous times that he does to him to show that he's still talentless and weak compared to his masters and Miu. Here's what I think of it.

^
|
|
|
|
|

WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

and that's just an obvious prediction that could be likely to come true to rub in our faces...that's just me.
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Old 2012-06-30, 11:34   Link #5195
Fenrir_valindri
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Some people just don't have a head for certain things. Kenichi isn't naturally inclined towards violent acts or employing his body in a physical manner. The Master's constantly allude to Kenichi's "potential" which is something entirely different from his "talent."

Talent is the ease in which someone learns something, Chikage and Miu have immense amounts of talent and are child prodigies.

Kenichi on the other hand obviously has an incredible amount of "potential" but no talent, hence why the Master's train him so strictly, he is the type of person who has to achieve everything through hard work, not talent.
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Old 2012-06-30, 11:48   Link #5196
leon4281isback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Some people just don't have a head for certain things. Kenichi isn't naturally inclined towards violent acts or employing his body in a physical manner. The Master's constantly allude to Kenichi's "potential" which is something entirely different from his "talent."

Talent is the ease in which someone learns something, Chikage and Miu have immense amounts of talent and are child prodigies.

Kenichi on the other hand obviously has an incredible amount of "potential" but no talent, hence why the Master's train him so strictly, he is the type of person who has to achieve everything through hard work, not talent.
Can't disagree with that. Of course, I don't think some people who read this see that and it's no wonder why they want to drop this manga for the time being. I've read plenty of manga that sucks and I didn't drop it till the end, mostly because I'm a bit masochistic and try to see some things to the end that might be a guilty pleasure. Of course that has nothing to do with this manga. It's alright, it's just I can see what people think about Kenichi's improvements at this point that makes them frown on it on that side.

People cheer for the MC to do anything and everything in their abilities to improve and do the impossible, it does hurt to see guys like Kenichi like this after all that hard work and than BAM! knocked back a couple of pegs and outdone by other characters. It makes a lot of sense that Kenichi isn't that much inclined to violence, so he ends up in a way untalented in things that included violence, he does all this to try to attempt to protect a girl who is more capable than martial arts than he is, and she outdoes him in a few steps. Possibly he might just find himself between another rock in a hard place again, but then again, there's always something keeping Kenichi around. Some readers don't want to deal with a manga with a main character who still is weak compared to most characters after all that and still doesn't make an impact till the near end which they might possibly miss out on. Again that's just me. I can't blame them for something like that although they know that it's just a darn manga, and no one is perfect, and anybody whose powerful in a higher level can be beaten.

Ok I'm talking too much and going off the deep end. I'm just trying to keep to the conversation of this recent chapters.

Anyway, I can see that people are still hoping when the gloves are truly gonna come off for Kenichi.
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Old 2012-06-30, 12:07   Link #5197
Merilyn Mensola
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Im ok with Kenichi development..is just that when is seems that the gap between them is reduced a little, then Matsuena do it..i mean, just make Kenichi fight a bit against Miu..man..just a bit

when the day where Kenichi fight and win against Miu, i think i'm going drink..after all..i love this manga
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Old 2012-06-30, 12:09   Link #5198
Fenrir_valindri
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As it stands, I don't think there is another disciple class character in the manga that can outclass Kenichi except for Miu, and that is a big step up from when all his battles were uphill ones at the start of the manga.

All his recent fight against Disciple class fighters have him seemingly even, if not outright superior to his opponents.
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Old 2012-06-30, 12:14   Link #5199
Merilyn Mensola
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^mmm, probably Kajima Satomi ,Saiga disciple, in this moment is more stronger than Kenichi..but i don't know if Kajima is really a disciple or maybe a little closer to a master class...
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Old 2012-06-30, 12:39   Link #5200
KLGChaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Miu was always above Kenichi from the start, so I don't see the big deal about her being better than him. Did you expect Miu to simply sit down and do nothing while Kenichi gets better? They're both getting better, but the simple fact is that Miu, being more talented and more experienced than Kenichi, has an advantage over him that isn't simply going to vanish instantly. When you consider the fact that Kenichi has been studying martial arts for less than 2 years, his growth rate is nothing less than phenomenal, especially considering he's supposed to be untalented.

In fact, he's even surpassed Miu in some ways. Just recently, she admitted that his ability to discern techniques was better than hers, and I'm sure his endurance is better than hers too. I can't understand how you can find it hard to believe that Kenichi would reach his goal when the manga has been beating us around the head with the idea of how people achieve goals: Not climbing towards it, but rather falling there. Kenichi, as has been mentioned many times is the sort of guy that even though it takes him awhile, will eventually get there.

As for the Miu beating Kenichi easier than the masters' part, if you're talking about this chapter, Akisame was deliberately going easy on Kenichi. Beating him in an instant isn't going to help him after all.



Yeah she is kind of like Medaka actually. I'll take that as a compliment.
The problem I have isn't with the loss itself. It would have been fine if he was able to hold his own a bit before she destroyed him. It's that he didn't even put up a fight. Kenichi has master class endurance. He took hits from Akisame and Apachai, who even if they were holding back, are far stronger than Miu. Yet she drops him like he has no stamina at all. It's like Matsuena depowered him purposely just to make Miu look better. All that build up in the chapter to show how Kenichi had grown and it's all swept under the rug with one fight. One month of training and she's suddenly so far ahead of Kenichi that it may as well be back at the beginning of the manga. He was closing the gap slowly after two years and now it's wider than its ever been. For Kenichi to close that gap would require a massive DEM on Matsuena's part because he's established that no matter how hard Kenichi trains, he won't be able to beat her. She'll just have to spend one day training and it'll wipe away a month of his easily.

And the Medaka comment wasn't a compliment. While I enjoy Medaka Box to an extent, I'm not a fan of Medaka and can't stand Mary Sues in general.

@Fenrir: Not sure if there are any disciples that outclass him or not. It's hard to tell when the disciples have been relegated to the back-burner for so long as the masters took over the manga. We've been given nothing to gauge the power levels of the remaining disciples.
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