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Old 2007-06-20, 11:30   Link #41
0TaKu0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
It won't violate moral or manga law if Sasuke pays a price for his revenge. A scenario where Sasuke defeats Itachi but at the price of _____ . After that, he could have the epiphany of how what he did wasn't worth it or whatever. Personally, I don't want Sasuke to lose his obsession with revenge, as that's the only thing keeps him from becoming just another one of Naruto's sidekicks, like what happened to Neji.
Heh, I totally understand that feeling. Sasuke is Naruto's only failure, in terms of Naruto's power over people. However, its the thing you don’t want him to lose is what’s holding him back (at least according to “Kishilaw“). Yea, if there were repercussions that applies then I guess it can be justified, its funny you should mention the "at the price of _____". I’ll laugh if “at the price of _____” turns out to be my old, old Itachi theory. Then, the divine punishment falls on Sasuke lol.
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Old 2007-06-20, 12:07   Link #42
Suna no tate
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I don't accept either spoiler. Here's why. At the end of the last chapter, the authors description said "Sasuke's Attack finds its target. Next time the artist's grand finale". Means no flashback. Besides, we saw Tobi do some neat tunneling and he was the one who placed the mines. Since deidara will be delivering a "grand finale", he may die in the next chapter, but we'll certainly be seeing his best stuff. So a spoiler where he has a flashback and doesnt' even engage sasuke is pretty far off from the spoiler the author himself gives. Not much of a grand finale to see Deidara simply lying in a coma like state after sasuke's attack, with a flashback in between... unless you're calling kishi a liar...
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Old 2007-06-20, 12:14   Link #43
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Even if the other spoiler turns true it's just too vague...hope we get something extra by Friday...
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Old 2007-06-20, 12:43   Link #44
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
In the case of Itachi, we only know of 2 Akatsuki (if this spoiler is true), the reason for one fighting Itachi was base on this character wanting to posses his body, and the other non verified occurrence, we don’t know the details on the why. and if Deidara was in Akatsuki by that time.
Kakuzu fought his teammates and killed a few of them. So, it seems fighting among members is not a taboo itself, otherwise, Kakuzu would be thrown out from the Akatsuki. In that case, fighting among members that are not teammates should also be allowed.

For Deidara fighting Itachi, it is possible that they fought before Deidara joined Akatsuki, but, if that is the case, why he is kept alive becomes a mystery. Cause, if Itachi fought that person because of Konoha matters, he should have killed Deidara rather than keeping him alive. In the case of fighthing a member of Akatsuki, and not killing him, keeping the person alive is understandable. At the end, Itachi needs the strength of that group because of his possibly hidden motive that might differ from Akatsuki's. And, he should understand the difficulty of finding such people. (He didn't finish Oro, for instance)

Of course there is always the case of fighting Itachi while joining Akatsuki to show his strength. Deidara told before, he saw Itachi's doujutsu techniques. Considering that they hardly get together, maybe, that is the most likely reason for their fight.
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Old 2007-06-20, 13:33   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Kakuzu fought his teammates and killed a few of them. So, it seems fighting among members is not a taboo itself, otherwise, Kakuzu would be thrown out from the Akatsuki. In that case, fighting among members that are not teammates should also be allowed.
We would need to see those instances when Kakuuzu killed (we don’t really have ground to say he gave them chances of fighting), what he said to Akatsuki about those Killed Akatsuki, for instance, did he really came forward to admit he kill them? also, did Kakuuzu mention his previous teammates where in Akatsuki?

As I said I doubt the leader permits this, that they fought without his consent or knowledge is another matter, I.E. “if a Member attacks me, I have the right to defend myself”, and in the ninja world, that means killing the treat.

Quote:
For Deidara fighting Itachi, it is possible that they fought before Deidara joined Akatsuki, but, if that is the case, why he is kept alive becomes a mystery. Cause, if Itachi fought that person because of Konoha matters, he should have killed Deidara rather than keeping him alive. In the case of fighthing a member of Akatsuki, and not killing him, keeping the person alive is understandable. At the end, Itachi needs the strength of that group because of his possibly hidden motive that might differ from Akatsuki's. And, he should understand the difficulty of finding such people. (He didn't finish Oro, for instance)
For me it seems Itachi doesn’t Kill needlessly, outside The Uchihas and Uchiha Shisui, Itachi have tried at all cost to not assasinate someone, which for me is his biggest mystery.
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Old 2007-06-20, 13:40   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
For me it seems Itachi doesn’t Kill needlessly, outside The Uchihas and Uchiha Shisui, Itachi have tried at all cost to not assasinate someone, which for me is his biggest mystery.
When he first appeared, he said him and Kisame had to capture Kakashi and kill Asuma and Kurenai and he would have done it if Gai, who said he asked for ANBU reinforcements) didn't interfere. He didn't want to have to look for Naruto while fighting a whole ninja village.

Sure he didn't kill Jiraiya and Orochimaru, but he didn't have to since Naruto was not ready yet and Orochimaru was his fellow Akatsuki member and thus could still be of use. Same for Deidara.

Anyways, I think I'll stop looking for sense in the story. Deidara just attacked Sasuke because Kishimoto wanted Sasuke to fight Akatsuki and Deidara was previously defeated by Itachi because Kishimoto wanted Sasuke to be still in Itachi's shadow. Period. Kishimoto is not even trying to cover that up with a fancy side story.
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Old 2007-06-20, 13:43   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
When he first appeared, he said him and Kisame had to capture Kakashi and kill Asuma and Kurenai and he would have done it if Gai, who said he asked for ANBU reinforcements) didn't interfere. He didn't want to have to look for Naruto while fighting a whole ninja village.

Sure he didn't kill Jiraiya and Orochimaru, but he didn't have to since Naruto was not ready yet and Orochimaru was his fellow Akatsuki member and thus could still be of use.
Before that he was reluctant to Killing them, even fighting them, and at that point instead of killing them himself, he decides to sent Kisame to do that Job…
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Old 2007-06-20, 13:54   Link #48
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I will wait to see the whole flashback since it seems to take almost the whole chapter but I don't really see the reason to show this.
I mean Itachi already beat (probably more easily than Sasuke) people Sasuke is beating right now : ok that's good as a measuring stick between them which is all Deidara is in this arc but that was already Orochimaru's purpose in this arc anyway.
I'm not complaining about this fight since I like both Deidara and Sasuke fighting style and enjoy it so far but it seems redundant to me and it's not really like we need another proof that Itachi is incredibly strong.

On a side note you got to wonder how Itachi treat his ennemies when you see what he does to his colleague.
That being said it's not so surprised when you see what he does to his family
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Old 2007-06-20, 14:11   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
We would need to see those instances when Kakuuzu killed (we don’t really have ground to say he gave them chances of fighting), what he said to Akatsuki about those Killed Akatsuki, for instance, did he really came forward to admit he kill them? also, did Kakuuzu mention his previous teammates where in Akatsuki?
Even if not all, some should be. If I remember correctly, Hidan should be the latest member (before Tobi, of course). Considering the time that Oro left Akatsuki, Kakuzu should be in at that time. So, I believe, Hidan should have joined sometime in between.
Quote:
As I said I doubt the leader permits this, that they fought without his consent or knowledge is another matter, I.E. “if a Member attacks me, I have the right to defend myself”, and in the ninja world, that means killing the treat.
He has to permit that. Or, let me say, he shouldn't have any problems with that. The people he hired are criminals, psychologically distorted people after all. What the members can do out of anger should be within his calculations. And, if a member cannot defend himself against his teammate, then, maybe, it is better for that person to leave the group or, better, just die without leaking out any secrets of the group.
Quote:
For me it seems Itachi doesn’t Kill needlessly, outside The Uchihas and Uchiha Shisui, Itachi have tried at all cost to not assasinate someone, which for me is his biggest mystery.
He didn't mind using MS on Kakashi, even though Kakashi or the others there would have died. So, I am not sure whether we can exactly consider him someone like that. Of course, he is not a mindless bull like Hidan or Kisame that charges in without thinking the consequences, etc. Still, if the job requires, or he feels like it, he shouldn't have any problems with that. At the end, you cannot expect some kind of I don't kill attitude from someone who easily killed his parents, friends, children, elderly, without having any problems (or feeling any guilt) at all.
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Old 2007-06-20, 14:15   Link #50
ChojinLocke
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I dont think Kishimoto wants so much to downplay Sasuke in comparison to Itachi as to build up the imminent fight between them (it is possible the fight will be grandiose but still in Itachi's favor). We the readers know that Sasuke has a plan to fight Itachi - that's the whole purpose of his hebi team - and it has been stated many times both by other people and Sasuke himself that he cannot take down Itachi alone. However, lets wait and see if that spoiler is correct coz it might be way off...
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Old 2007-06-20, 14:37   Link #51
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Even if not all, some should be. If I remember correctly, Hidan should be the latest member (before Tobi, of course). Considering the time that Oro left Akatsuki, Kakuzu should be in at that time. So, I believe, Hidan should have joined sometime in between.
Hmmm, I did not follow your post, what this has to do with the quote selected?

Quote:
He has to permit that. Or, let me say, he shouldn't have any problems with that. The people he hired are criminals, psychologically distorted people after all. What the members can do out of anger should be within his calculations. And, if a member cannot defend himself against his teammate, then, maybe, it is better for that person to leave the group or, better, just die without leaking out any secrets of the group.
He could permit each member defending his or her lives, but not on to what Mr Johnny suggested, a sort of Death Match to see who can boss around.

My point is not that there is a rule that condemns fighting between Members, but given what the leader said to Kisame after Kisame made his mocking remark on the death of Kakuuzu and HIdan, it seems he holds some work ethic inside the organization, meaning, He would not permit something like, for example, Kisame out of the blue calling on Deidara to se who is stronger just for the love of the game.

After all, this group of people are just too dangerous as you said, so the leader should not be able to control them to a point where no conflict could arise between them, heck even in peaceful loving Konoha land you can find conflicts between ninjas of that village..



Quote:
He didn't mind using MS on Kakashi, even though Kakashi or the others there would have died. So, I am not sure whether we can exactly consider him someone like that. Of course, he is not a mindless bull like Hidan or Kisame that charges in without thinking the consequences, etc. Still, if the job requires, or he feels like it, he shouldn't have any problems with that. At the end, you cannot expect some kind of I don't kill attitude from someone who easily killed his parents, friends, children, elderly, without having any problems (or feeling any guilt) at all.
I think you got me wrong there, Itachi could had Killed Kakashi when he used MS, he choose not to, Itachi was trying to avoid Killing Asuma and Kurenai, whereas, with a blink of an eye he would had cut the head of both of them with a Kunai.

But Itachi been reluctant to take away a life, doesn’t mean he wont do it, Im just pointing out, that he just tries to avoid that up to some point, and not that he has the Kenshin Himura Sindrome.

And regarding Itachi killing his family, we have to see if there is any other reason outside some hypocritical reasons, like saving the planet from destruction. (Which I doubt)
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Old 2007-06-20, 14:39   Link #52
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
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If i were an akatsuki member i would've fight Itachi aswell.
Someone needs to punish the arrogant punk.
And Yet he keep pwning each of them…lets be blunt here, the only Akatsuki member that could be stronger than Itachi is the leader, and for me, that is a big could.
Surely there's gotta be members stronger then Itachi other then the leader?
When i said that i am only thinking about Zetsu or the other unknown member though.

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Didnt Sasori fight his Akatsuki teammember(s) aswell?? Before he entered Akatsuki...
I don't recall that.
Chapter 271 page 7. Sasori says he didnt had this much trouble since entering Akatsuki. When was that again? Those were his words. He said this when he had to use his own body to fight Chiyoo & Sakura.

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Quote:
To create order and decide the dominant members it's common that they would fight. Just like prisoners or crimininals in the same prison/job.

I doubt very much that the leader allow such behavior inside Akatsuki.

In the case of Itachi, we only know of 2 Akatsuki (if this spoiler is true), the reason for one fighting Itachi was base on this character wanting to posses his body, and the other non verified occurrence, we don’t know the details on the why. and if Deidara was in Akatsuki by that time.
Judging from "that" sentence that Sasori said i think things like that did happen.
He probably allows them to fight but after the fight things are clear and discussions arent allowed anymore. Since he is in command i am positive no one is stronger then him. He tells others what to do.
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Old 2007-06-20, 14:44   Link #53
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Surely there's gotta be members stronger then Itachi other then the leader?
When i said that i am only thinking about Zetsu or the other unknown member though.
Given the weigh of Itachis role in the series, that he is an Uchiha with Sharingan…. I doubt it. I remember people used to say the same thing when Hidan and Kakuuzu were not introduced, look at the result.


Quote:
Chapter 271 page 7. Sasori says he didnt had this much trouble since entering Akatsuki. When was that again? Those were his words. He said this when he had to use his own body to fight Chiyoo & Sakura.



Judging from "that" sentence that Sasori said i think things like that did happen.
He probably allows them to fight but after the fight things are clear and discussions arent allowed anymore. Since he is in command i am positive no one is stronger then him. He tells others what to do.
That sentence could mean anything, as Sasori also talked about taking down a country, so that trouble could be that, or maybe Killing Sandaime Kazekage.
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Old 2007-06-20, 15:15   Link #54
tatami
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hahaha just a tought :

wouldnt it be so funny that after the last explosion hidans head pops from underground and starts to swear
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Old 2007-06-20, 15:35   Link #55
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And Yet he keep pwning each of them…lets be blunt here, the only Akatsuki member that could be stronger than Itachi is the leader, and for me, that is a big could.
I agree with you totally! I hate when people say something like Blue Hair is stronger than Itachi is, they haven't even see him/her fight before!

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hahaha just a tought :

wouldnt it be so funny that after the last explosion hidans head pops from underground and starts to swear
Or Sasuke having Hidan's body and become immortal, i'd drink to that.
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Old 2007-06-20, 16:29   Link #56
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Looks like the spoiler was confirmed to be true.

Deidara just got the dreaded "Flashback of Doom" And it seems like this C4 is going to be a suicide bomb attack since he is eating the clay.

I guess he'll be joining Sasori, Kakuzu, and Hidan as dead Akatsuki soon. Orochimaru is not technically dead because of Orobuto.
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Old 2007-06-20, 16:33   Link #57
Mr. Johnny 5
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I agree with you totally! I hate when people say something like Blue Hair is stronger than Itachi is, they haven't even see him/her fight before!
But then wouldnt it be obvious to think the opposite? Not because we havent seen them fight the would be stronger/weaker.

Just in my personal opinion i doubt Itachi is the 2nd strongest or strongest.
And then it's just wild guessing which one would be stronger then .....
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Old 2007-06-20, 16:37   Link #58
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Logic would dictate that the last two members to be revealed would be the strongest. But then Kishimoto hasn't be very logical.
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Old 2007-06-20, 16:43   Link #59
tatami
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Looks like the spoiler was confirmed to be true.

Deidara just got the dreaded "Flashback of Doom" And it seems like this C4 is going to be a suicide bomb attack since he is eating the clay.

I guess he'll be joining Sasori, Kakuzu, and Hidan as dead Akatsuki soon. Orochimaru is not technically dead because of Orobuto.

hidan is not dead man he is truly immortal he will be back somehow
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Old 2007-06-20, 16:50   Link #60
kuzon234ray
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But are you sure it's C4. Because if he eats the clay then that would be using his third tounge, his real tounge, so wouldn't that be C3?
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