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Old 2007-06-30, 02:47   Link #41
Furuno
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Actually don't too worry a about heat... look:
Spoiler for my pc spec:

That much of equipment combined with 500W PSU is running fine with only 2 additional 8" fan... Altough now they're water cooled for better overclocking performance...

Anyway if you want to add more fans but you power socket is not enough, than just buy some DC converter and plug your fans externally...
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Old 2007-06-30, 03:03   Link #42
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I envy you..you can afford water cooling systems... anyways I really thought that bigfans can stress the power supply.
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Old 2007-06-30, 03:15   Link #43
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Nonono... don't get me wrong, it's a HOMEMADE water cooling system, all i've bought is just the CPU plug.

I'm using a radiator from my old aircon and combined it with pump designed for aquarium, add some car radiator coolant and walla... my homemade water cooling system. (sry no pics, don't have camera... lol...).

Fans is using power less than electronic component such as processor, altough it's depend on the diameter and rpm too...
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Old 2007-06-30, 03:52   Link #44
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Wow amazing! o_O I should make may own as well.hehehe..but is that sucking to much power???

Also can you compare contrast ATI RADEON X1300 to nvidia VGA's? I mean is your VGA like Nvidia 7 series?
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Old 2007-06-30, 07:06   Link #45
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Can I ask a question can "application hang" mess up your pc? I mean in terms of performance? Will it kill damage your ram? Will it kill damage your hard drive? This what happen I installed a program and after its done it hanged I don't know why so I controlled alt delete it and then it fixed again. Well it only happens with my pc ever since...but it worked with the other ones..wow..can't be ram because it new and theres still no signs of failing yet. Sorry for the stupid question I just need to know.
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-06-30, 09:25   Link #46
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
When you say black page do mean not to connect it to the VGA just in test mode??
Uh, sorry for not clarifying, but I meant any webpage that displays mostly black. For example, go to this page and tell me if your monitor resizes itself differently (if I'm right, it should shrink a bit, and you'll end up with an inverted barrel-like display).

Quote:
Can I ask a question can "application hang" mess up your pc? I mean in terms of performance? Will it kill damage your ram? Will it kill damage your hard drive?
As much as I respect your curiosity, you've got to keep in mind that a PC is tougher than it looks. An "application hang" won't mess up directly with your PC, it is mostly a software error that could be due to a myriad of different causes (including faulty hardware, but it most probably can't cause any). I can't think of any way of damaging RAM via software misuse, and killing a hard drive usually takes lots and lots of sequential copying (and lots of time, too), more copying than what a regular user would ever do.

It's hard for software to affect your hardware. Most of times, the failures are the other way around (faulty/old hardware starts affecting the performance of the software). Of course, you can end up with a fired component by wrongly handling software, but I believe it's almost impossible to do so unintentionally, or without having an initial bad placement of components.

You've gotta keep in mind the difference between software and hardware. Software is virtual, and it depends on the hardware, which is physical; not the other way around. In the same manner, software problems are usually easier to locate and solve; hardware issues, being much more different in nature (less guided by logic and more by coincidence or luck) are completely another issue.

What "application hang" can do, mostly (and in a really light manner) is mess up with your operative system, however, I don't feel that the Win XP structure will suffer much from it. Try to see what the event log details about the software crash.
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2007-06-30 at 09:39.
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Old 2007-06-30, 20:17   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
A blackout will not short your PSU. It won't short anything, the only problem it may cause to your computer is if it's on, your software might be upset at being powered off unexpectedly. Brownouts are similar, except that it may not strain your software, but everything will slow down (hardware-wise). It's possible that it could cause damage, but very unlikely.

The real damage comes from power surges. This is why surge protectors are huge business. Aside from expanding your power ports (probably the main reason why people get them), it guards against those surges. I live in an area where lightning occurs frequently, and I lost about three dial-up modems to power surges. The reason wasn't from the power lines, though, but (I suspect) from the phone line, which I did not have wired through a surge protector.

Keep every electronic that you can behind a surge protector. But a surge protector will not guard against blackouts, nor will blackouts cause damage. If you're having issues with blackouts, get a UPC (uninterruptible power supply). It's basically a big old battery, and depending on its power rating it can keep your system going for another 15 minutes before shutting it down. Its real use comes if you're in an area that experiences brief blackouts/brownouts at high frequency.
OMG there was a short cut of power and then turned on here last night and my pc was on..and my new PSU experienced the first blackout oh no!!

You also said that if theres a blackout your computer's performance will slow down? is that true?

One more thing what makes the power surge protector tick? how can it prevent power surges?

ALSO UPS are so expensive..!!!
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Old 2007-07-01, 02:12   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
Wow amazing! o_O I should make may own as well.hehehe..but is that sucking to much power???
Well i'm using extrenal power supply for the pump, meaning i plug it into another AC outlet, not from my PC power supply...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
Also can you compare contrast ATI RADEON X1300 to nvidia VGA's? I mean is your VGA like Nvidia 7 series?
Actually i don't have much knowledge in VGA cards, but i guess my VGA performance is a little bit above nVidia GeForce 7300 series. I've better core clock speed (600MHz vs. 550MHz) and memory speed (800Mhz vs 533MHz)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
Can I ask a question can "application hang" mess up your pc? I mean in terms of performance? Will it kill damage your ram? Will it kill damage your hard drive? This what happen I installed a program and after its done it hanged I don't know why so I controlled alt delete it and then it fixed again. Well it only happens with my pc ever since...but it worked with the other ones..wow..can't be ram because it new and theres still no signs of failing yet. Sorry for the stupid question I just need to know.
Spoiler:
Can you scroll the screen to the right so i can see the other descriptions?

Anyway, software damage won't affect hardware easily... relax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
OMG there was a short cut of power and then turned on here last night and my pc was on..and my new PSU experienced the first blackout oh no!!
Like WanderingKnight said, PC is tough. Don't worry, i've already experienced a lot of blackouts and my PC still kickin'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
You also said that if theres a blackout your computer's performance will slow down? is that true?
Nope, i guess not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
One more thing what makes the power surge protector tick? how can it prevent power surges?
Some electronic circuit does the job (not quite understand but looks like resistor and diode does it...)
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Old 2007-07-01, 03:15   Link #49
toru310
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Well I have trauma with my previews PSU because it died on me 2months ago. Before this happened my pc was turned on when there was a blackout and after a month the PSU failed(not giving proper voltage so it makes the pc hang and can't process anymore). So went to the computer shop hoping that the technicians there can help me and they said that the reason why it failed was because of the blackout and it killed my psu. Of course I told them that it was on when there was a blackout and they said that was the reason..so bought a new one and I'm pretty much happy now but sadly it experienced a blackout for the first time and that was last night .. So I'm just afraid that It might fail in the next month(hopefully not..) Well to tell you the truth my previews PSU was not branded and I bought a newone with a brand name this time..maybe it will lessen the chance of fail since its branded plus I got a power surge protector outlet.

About the application error well thats the only error that I get I did scroll down and there are no "X" marks. But there is are "!" but not that many..

Side topic: When you plug in something why does it spark sometimes when every thing is on?? I mean is it bad for it to be on before plugging it in?? Or do you have to turn off every thing before plugging your cord?? Oh yeah were talking about extension cords..

Well because I kind of forgot to turn off everything before plugging it in the outlet.. so I was wondering if its bad or is it ok??

Last edited by toru310; 2007-07-01 at 03:35.
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Old 2007-07-01, 04:05   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
Side topic: When you plug in something why does it spark sometimes when every thing is on?? I mean is it bad for it to be on before plugging it in?? Or do you have to turn off every thing before plugging your cord?? Oh yeah were talking about extension cords..

Well because I kind of forgot to turn off everything before plugging it in the outlet.. so I was wondering if its bad or is it ok??
Well i don't recommend anybody to plug in the power when the device is on. It could cause electric shock and can kill you (at least it can destroy the device). It's spark because there's some short contact of electricity. Wall outlet is (usually) 60Hz AC, meaning the power is changing from + to - 60 times a minute. So if + meet - it'll spark. Here's graphic some explanation :

DC power : Source+++++Device-----Source
AC power : Source+-+-+-Device+-+-+-Source

That's why AC power can spark sometime when they plug in (there's much more chance the + will meet the -)
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Old 2007-07-01, 05:05   Link #51
toru310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furuno View Post
Well i don't recommend anybody to plug in the power when the device is on. It could cause electric shock and can kill you (at least it can destroy the device). It's spark because there's some short contact of electricity. Wall outlet is (usually) 60Hz AC, meaning the power is changing from + to - 60 times a minute. So if + meet - it'll spark. Here's graphic some explanation :

DC power : Source+++++Device-----Source
AC power : Source+-+-+-Device+-+-+-Source

That's why AC power can spark sometime when they plug in (there's much more chance the + will meet the -)
Wow so theres a chance that my pc can fail? or shorten the component's life span?? Well I did a short search about Surge protector and they said that the power suply actually serves as a small surge protector..

Well I accidentally forgot to turn off the extension and avr so when I plugged it it sparked and that worries me..do you think that enough can damage my pc or shorten its life span??
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Old 2007-07-01, 05:54   Link #52
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Yeah there's a chance, so be careful!

ABout power supply with surge protector, just chek your power supply specs wether they equipped with surge protector or not. Anyway is much more worthed to invest a surge protector, they cheap and works fine...
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Old 2007-07-01, 06:10   Link #53
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Oh well I guess I have to wait a month or two until it fails and gets replace again..problem is they take so long to fix the item..and that scares me because I don't want to be out off anime for 1 month again...

Can you tell me what are the signs of a failing PSU?
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Old 2007-07-01, 07:43   Link #54
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Yeah should be ok.

I bought a ATI x1950pro yesterday so I had to get a new PSU. These were what was recommended to me fo your future refenrence.

Coolermaster (particularly the igreen and real power series, I bought a 500w igreen)
Zalman
Antec

As for fans, I'd swap the placement around. Big fan at the back and small fan on the side. Why? Well it's better to have negative pressure in your case. What's that mean? Well it means more air out going. Remember your case is not air tight. By having negative pressure more air will be sucked in through all the little nooks and crannies and vents thereby there will be more air moving and circulating over your parts. Basically you're using the intake fans as a secondary way to promote ventilation, the suction of negative pressure will be the primary source of ventilation

By having positive pressure (more air in than out), the air will stagnate and heat up instead of dissipating it.

Ok for example I run 3x120mm Antec tricool fans which have a variable speed control switch in my HTPC and they're cheap too. Actually 4 if you count the 120mm fan in my PSU. The front and side fan, they are intakes, but they are at the lowest settings. The rear fan works with the PSU fan as exhaust and that is at the mid setting. I also use a CoolerMaster Hyper TX Cpu heatsink (I O/C ed my CPU) which also has a 90mm fan also circulating air. NOw you may wonder why I use such massive fans, well remember this PC is a Home Theatre PC first and gaming platform second. All my RAM/PCI/PCIE slots are taken up. I have HDTV tuner, Video capture card, GFX card, SPDIF out, 4 gigs RAM, Wifi etc etc. 120mm fans rotate slower to push more air. Less RPM's equals less noise. For all intents and purposes this PC is silent from a distance of 1m well before where my couch is. I mean who sits any close to a big screen TV?

Ambient temps in my pc are about 25-29C, my vid card sits between 40-45C, CPU/MOBO/RAM/HDD all sit between 24-27C. Now for the downside, I have to clean this PC ever 5 or 6 months. Well not really but it's just to prevent dust build up. But hey, I'm not confident enough to try watercooling yet. It's still fairly new to home PC's and I'll wait a year or two to see how the watercooling sytems are holding up

Honestly man, don't be scared to try yourself. The PSU connections can only go in one place and in one way. If you're still not confident, pull the connectors out one by one. Have a look on your new PSU and look for a connector that looks exactly like it.

Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2007-07-01 at 07:53.
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Old 2007-07-01, 08:11   Link #55
toru310
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Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
Yeah should be ok.

I bought a ATI x1950pro yesterday so I had to get a new PSU. These were what was recommended to me fo your future refenrence.

Coolermaster (particularly the igreen and real power series, I bought a 500w igreen)
Zalman
Antec

As for fans, I'd swap the placement around. Big fan at the back and small fan on the side. Why? Well it's better to have negative pressure in your case. What's that mean? Well it means more air out going. Remember your case is not air tight. By having negative pressure more air will be sucked in through all the little nooks and crannies and vents thereby there will be more air moving and circulating over your parts. Basically you're using the intake fans as a secondary way to promote ventilation, the suction of negative pressure will be the primary source of ventilation

By having positive pressure (more air in than out), the air will stagnate and heat up instead of dissipating it.

Ok for example I run 3x120mm Antec tricool fans which have a variable speed control switch in my HTPC and they're cheap too. Actually 4 if you count the 120mm fan in my PSU. The front and side fan, they are intakes, but they are at the lowest settings. The rear fan works with the PSU fan as exhaust and that is at the mid setting. I also use a CoolerMaster Hyper TX Cpu heatsink (I O/C ed my CPU) which also has a 90mm fan also circulating air. NOw you may wonder why I use such massive fans, well remember this PC is a Home Theatre PC first and gaming platform second. All my RAM/PCI/PCIE slots are taken up. I have HDTV tuner, Video capture card, GFX card, SPDIF out, 4 gigs RAM, Wifi etc etc. 120mm fans rotate slower to push more air. Less RPM's equals less noise. For all intents and purposes this PC is silent from a distance of 1m well before where my couch is. I mean who sits any close to a big screen TV?

Ambient temps in my pc are about 25-29C, my vid card sits between 40-45C, CPU/MOBO/RAM/HDD all sit between 24-27C. Now for the downside, I have to clean this PC ever 5 or 6 months. Well not really but it's just to prevent dust build up. But hey, I'm not confident enough to try watercooling yet. It's still fairly new to home PC's and I'll wait a year or two to see how the watercooling sytems are holding up

Honestly man, don't be scared to try yourself. The PSU connections can only go in one place and in one way. If you're still not confident, pull the connectors out one by one. Have a look on your new PSU and look for a connector that looks exactly like it.
The last time I did an experiment with my pc I can't put it back so I got trauma and I can't do it anymore..And I never learned how to put a PSU so it will be difficult if I don't know how to put it back. Sorry I just can't do it alone maybe If I have someone with me who knows how to do it hands on maybe I'll give it a try. I was thinking of adding more fans anyways.. P.S. when ever I dismantle my pc my hands shake alot. Also this may sound a liitle embarrassing but when ever I upgrade my PC I let the technician do all the work..sorry but I'll say to him what you recommend..

As for my surge protector my sister bought it for like 9$ do you think this thing is enough?
Spoiler:

Can some please tell me what are the signs of power supply failure?? I know this is annoying but I have to know so that I can be ready for the worse case scenario.
I just hope that my PSU won't fail because 550w of power will be a waste and its branded.


Sorry sorry sorry...

Last edited by toru310; 2007-07-01 at 08:50.
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Old 2007-07-01, 08:35   Link #56
Furuno
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PSU fault sign... maybe something like this :

- Sudden system restart (O/S instability also can cause this)
- Blinking monitor
- PC won't started (of course)
- Slower performance when you not expected it (due to low power supply usually CPU steps back its speed to slower speed)
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Old 2007-07-01, 08:44   Link #57
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PSU failure? Well to my knowledge the only sign is it's dead. I've never seen a PSU be "half dead" Well you could probably get a program that monitors voltage like PCwizard which is freeware. (Your PSU will consist of at least 3 power rails 3.3v, 12.00v, 5v) but there's more I think. But any one of those rails fail and your PSU is dead AFAIK.

But yeah, that should be ok. The Belkin's I use are only price because a) they're marketed b) they offer a sort of insurance policy for damage to equipment due to equipment failure, the cost is built in to the price but when I've got some pretty pricey equipment attached to it well it helps me sleep at night.
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Old 2007-07-01, 08:45   Link #58
toru310
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How can I know if my Pc performance is slow? can it be noticed by the four senses? Also about blinking monitor what do you mean? My monitor is connected directly to the AVR not on the power supply..
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Old 2007-07-01, 08:55   Link #59
toru310
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Thanks well now I know the syndromes of a failing PSU well I still have a backup PSU the unbranded one just in case the new one fail.. but I don't want that to happen. Well maybe I should monitor this for a month and see if its still a live...

Hmm is the syndromes the same with low voltage PSU? because that was the damage of my old PSU..and that made my pc hang.
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Old 2007-07-01, 17:58   Link #60
Chill Rabbit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
How can I know if my Pc performance is slow? can it be noticed by the four senses? Also about blinking monitor what do you mean? My monitor is connected directly to the AVR not on the power supply..
There is no "sure fire way" to tell if your system is slow of not. You'll know it's slow when it starts crawling a long like a snail. You can tell if a peice of software is eating up your resources, but 9 times out of 10 you're not going to be looking for these things unless the PC is already running slow.

A failing PSU may give all sorts of sighs before it kicks the bucket for good. The most common problem I see with PSUs is the fan failing. Once the fan stops spinning the PSU will get very hot and (will most likely) shut the PC down or at least reboot it. You can save these broken PSUs by replacing the fan before they fry themselves...but I advise you be very careful if you ever attempt such a thing.
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