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View Poll Results: Should Naruto have a BLoodline Limit?
Yes 26 52.00%
NO 24 48.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-08-21, 02:42   Link #41
Sinaura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naruto_spartan View Post
Surelly Naruto has some hidden powers to rival the Sharingan, his origins indicate that he can become a lot stronger. You may think that his origins are unkown but some of the characters know. One of them being Kakashi.

Spoiler for the manga:
I really disagree with the "hidden power" in a sense, meaning I don't think Naruto has any OMFGWTF hack bloodline like the sharingan. I think the whole point of Naruto is that you can be born an absolute loser with nothing special but through your own will surpass even the greatest geniuses around; to that extent. So in that sense I DO believe it's because Naruto is Naruto. It'd be boring if it turned out Naruto was just another Sasuke-type character who was meant to do great things because of his origin.....but yeah I think that's going to be the case anyhow
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Old 2007-08-21, 02:57   Link #42
amOKchen
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No bloodlime limit for naruto, he was probably just in a familiy with above avg chakra stamina.
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Old 2007-08-21, 09:39   Link #43
pizzajincuuriki
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blonde

no seriously. I think Naruto will end up bieng from the rain village or something like that. I would be preety pissed if he ended up gettong eyes like pein. That would just not be Naruto to me.
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Old 2007-08-21, 17:38   Link #44
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originaly from pizzajincuuriki

no seriously. I think Naruto will end up bieng from the rain village or something like that. I would be preety pissed if he ended up gettong eyes like pein. That would just not be Naruto to me.
Why do you think Naruto has anything to do with that? I mean there is nothing that ties him to that.
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Old 2007-08-21, 22:49   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naruto_spartan View Post
Why do you think Naruto has anything to do with that? I mean there is nothing that ties him to that.
This is just a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna go with the ridiculously uncanny resemblance between Naruto and Pein, in that Pein looks like Naruto from ten years in the future, with way more piercings, and Pein is from the Rain Village...but that's just a guess
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Old 2007-08-21, 22:54   Link #46
Sinaura
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Originally Posted by pizzajincuuriki View Post
blonde

no seriously. I think Naruto will end up bieng from the rain village or something like that. I would be preety pissed if he ended up gettong eyes like pein. That would just not be Naruto to me.
If that were the case, could you imagine how much distraught that would cause Naruto? Finding out you really don't believe to a place you've called home all along. Then again, finally finding the place where he belongs could be a positive.
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Old 2007-08-21, 23:04   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
If that were the case, could you imagine how much distraught that would cause Naruto? Finding out you really don't believe to a place you've called home all along. Then again, finally finding the place where he belongs could be a positive.
Spoiler for manga:
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Old 2007-08-22, 00:50   Link #48
seiji_kun
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
I think the whole point of Naruto is that you can be born an absolute loser with nothing special but through your own will surpass even the greatest geniuses around
Made me laugh, born without anything special. He got the most special bijuu and he is unique in it cause I guess he is the first one to ever have sealed it in him (and probably the last). Mb he wasn't born with it but it was as good as stored in him the moment he was born so imo it's almost the same.

And so far if he hadn't had that power he would've lost all of his fights vs geniuses. he needed it vs Neji / Gaara at the end / Sasuke. Tho Gaara & Sasuke are haxxors themself.
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Old 2007-08-22, 04:31   Link #49
Itachi-evil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
I really disagree with the "hidden power" in a sense, meaning I don't think Naruto has any OMFGWTF hack bloodline like the sharingan. I think the whole point of Naruto is that you can be born an absolute loser with nothing special but through your own will surpass even the greatest geniuses around; to that extent. So in that sense I DO believe it's because Naruto is Naruto. It'd be boring if it turned out Naruto was just another Sasuke-type character who was meant to do great things because of his origin.....but yeah I think that's going to be the case anyhow

haha, this made me laugh too. Absolute nonsense.
Naruto born as an absolute loser?

He was a loser in sense of people avoiding him and therefore his comic character to draw attention.

Without the help of Kyuubi he be would long dead now.

-Hm, the first fight against Orochimaru

-Against Neji

-Against Gaara

-Against Sasuke

-Against a "30%Itachi"

-Against Orochimaru, a 4tailed-Naruto


and so on up until the "fight" with Kakuzu. But he didn't "kill" him completely either.
It was Kakashi who gave him the last blow.

Quote:
"........with nothing special but through your own will surpass even the greatest geniuses around...."

So far the facts:

Whenever he beats someone, he ends up defeating them by luck, getting himself hurt, or relying on the Nine-tails.


And the fact that he has super-human stamina is also partly due to his Kyuubi or! due to his origin!

How can a "loser" just turn out to be the Greatest just by will?
Again based on your "facts" that it is a shonen?

Of course the origin plays a big part in one's abilites!

Last edited by Itachi-evil; 2007-08-22 at 04:56.
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Old 2007-08-22, 05:29   Link #50
amOKchen
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You are a typical Uhciha fan, stay out of the Naruto area ;/
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Old 2007-08-22, 05:37   Link #51
Itachi-evil
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You are a typical Uhciha fan, stay out of the Naruto area ;/
Hahaha, funny that you counter my facts with some random reproaches
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Old 2007-08-22, 05:52   Link #52
amOKchen
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Gaara used his own demon.
Sasuke used his curse seal.
Against Itchi he wasnt really using the extra charka, he was just in a rage.
Against Orochimaru the beast took over, he wasnt taking it's chakra he was lost to it.

Naruto having the demon makes him what he is, it is exactly the same with sasuke and his sharingan.. Else he would have bowed down to Haku in his first big fight.
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Old 2007-08-22, 05:58   Link #53
Itachi-evil
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Well, do you even realize that my post was reffering to someone else post, who claimed Naruto to be a loser without anyting special? -.-

Btw: Against "30%Itachi" he used the extra chakra to create the Odama Rasengan
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Old 2007-08-22, 06:00   Link #54
amOKchen
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Yes, that's why I dindt counter your FACTS.
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Old 2007-08-22, 11:39   Link #55
Sinaura
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Originally Posted by seiji_kun View Post
Made me laugh, born without anything special. He got the most special bijuu and he is unique in it cause I guess he is the first one to ever have sealed it in him (and probably the last). Mb he wasn't born with it but it was as good as stored in him the moment he was born so imo it's almost the same.

And so far if he hadn't had that power he would've lost all of his fights vs geniuses. he needed it vs Neji / Gaara at the end / Sasuke. Tho Gaara & Sasuke are haxxors themself.
I am aware of the Kyuubi, however I was specifically referring to a post about how a hidden bloodline could be the reason Naruto is so formidable; thus when I said special I meant bloodline.

Also, it's true that he did use the kyuubi power in many fights. However, my main argument is that in all of the impressive feats Naruto has accomplished outside of becoming insane with Kyuubi chakra and defeating an opponent, he has done so without the Kyuubi; learning chakra walking at a pace equal to Sasuke, a supposed genius, staying on Gamabunta's back as long as he did, learning an S-class Jutsu in a matter of days (Rasengan of course), creating his own s-class jutsu Fuuton Rasengan, and even being able to manipulate and use the Kyuubi's chakra as his own is also very impressive. (as a matter of fact, with Naruto's resume we could start labeling him a genius as well). These things back my original opinion about how it was all Naruto who was able to do these things without some hidden bloodline.

And yes, sharingan, bijuus, other bloodlines, are all hacks. My point is that if these hacks were taken from those ninjas (Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi, Neji, etc) that they'd still be exceptional ninjas, probably just not as lethal or powerful.


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Originally Posted by Itachi-evil View Post
haha, this made me laugh too. Absolute nonsense.
Naruto born as an absolute loser?

He was a loser in sense of people avoiding him and therefore his comic character to draw attention.


Trying to pick a fight? Sorry but it's been years since I graduated from grade school. However, I do have to clear some things up for you. Bloodlines are most probably special phenotypes unique to clans right? For someone to just be born into a certain family with these genes is said to have hit the genetic jackpot (a term used in biology because like a lottery, you don't really have to do anything active to win it). If you get to be born into these families with unique genes, you're a winner, if you don't, you're a loser (in the genetic lottery). That's what I meant by absolute loser and it's my mistake for not explaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi-evil View Post
Without the help of Kyuubi he be would long dead now.

-Hm, the first fight against Orochimaru

-Against Neji

-Against Gaara

-Against Sasuke

-Against a "30%Itachi"

-Against Orochimaru, a 4tailed-Naruto


and so on up until the "fight" with Kakuzu. But he didn't "kill" him completely either.
It was Kakashi who gave him the last blow.
And without the MS Itachi would be Sasuke's little....nvm lol....see above for reasons why battles aren't the only things that make a character exceptional.



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Originally Posted by Itachi-evil View Post

So far the facts:

Whenever he beats someone, he ends up defeating them by luck, getting himself hurt, or relying on the Nine-tails.
You are confusing luck with improvisation and ingenuity; the only time I can recall "luck" was when he fought Kiba in the chuunin exam arc, and even after that Naruto used cunning and ingenuity to beat Kiba.

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Originally Posted by Itachi-evil View Post
And the fact that he has super-human stamina is also partly due to his Kyuubi or! due to his origin!
No it is not a fact which is why it's being disputed in the first place. How can you even claim that Naruto's traits are due to his origins when we know nothing about those origins?

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Originally Posted by Itachi-evil View Post
How can a "loser" just turn out to be the Greatest just by will? Of course the origin plays a big part in one's abilites!
Because "will" is typically the ultimate trump card in stories about conflicts.

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Originally Posted by Itachi-evil View Post
Again based on your "facts" that it is a shonen?
You need to stop obsessing over me and our little flamewar we had earlier, it's annoying to me and probably not healthy for you.
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Old 2007-08-22, 12:00   Link #56
pizzajincuuriki
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Originally Posted by Naruto_spartan View Post
Why do you think Naruto has anything to do with that? I mean there is nothing that ties him to that.
My thoughts are purely cicumstantial, im getting that out of the way so no one tries to argue with me later. All the Uchihas look alike, Pein and Naruto look A LOT alike, stupid reason yes, but nothing disproves it sooo. Once we see some more people from the rain village, maybe we'll kno. Or they could just tell us.

Quote:
If that were the case, could you imagine how much distraught that would cause Naruto? Finding out you really don't believe to a place you've called home all along. Then again, finally finding the place where he belongs could be a positive.
I think that he would take the Goku approach. I am a rain village guy.....from konoha. Seriously, hed probably just still consider Konoha home, while knowing he came from Rain village.
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Old 2007-08-22, 14:26   Link #57
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
[...]
Also, it's true that he did use the kyuubi power in many fights. However, my main argument is that in all of the impressive feats Naruto has accomplished outside of becoming insane with Kyuubi chakra and defeating an opponent, he has done so without the Kyuubi; learning chakra walking at a pace equal to Sasuke, a supposed genius, staying on Gamabunta's back as long as he did, learning an S-class Jutsu in a matter of days (Rasengan of course), creating his own s-class jutsu Fuuton Rasengan, and even being able to manipulate and use the Kyuubi's chakra as his own is also very impressive. (as a matter of fact, with Naruto's resume we could start labeling him a genius as well). These things back my original opinion about how it was all Naruto who was able to do these things without some hidden bloodline.
Staying on Gamabunta's back was anime filler and learning the various forms of Rasengan so fast is also due to his inhuman stamina and chakra rooted into the presence of the Kyubi. All of Naruto's physical feats are related to the Kyubi one way or another because because his entire way of doing things is based on being an insane chakra powerhouse which is stated to be caused by the Kyubi.
But I just don't see why it is a problem in the first place, Naruto is the Jinchuuriki of the Kyubi. Harnessing its power is his own ability, Naruto using the Kyubi's power and controlling it in a stable state is a proof of his skill just like Gaara manipulating the Sand. Sarutobi even commented about this during the Chuunin exam.
The only problem is when Naruto loses control, when the power harnesses his body instead.

Naruto isn't Lee, he isn't a person with no talent whatsoever trying to reach the top through hardwork alone.
He's the holder of the most powerful demon in existence which is his own hidden power.

Quote:
No it is not a fact which is why it's being disputed in the first place. How can you even claim that Naruto's traits are due to his origins when we know nothing about those origins?
It is a fact, both Kakashi and Jiraiya -and then the Data Book- mentionned his abnormal stamina (and his poor chakra control) was due to the presence of the Kyubi inside him since almost his birth and how Yondaime's seals were set up to allow the chakra of the Kyubi to mix with Naruto's. What we can't know however is how much it changed him but one thing is sure though : he wouldn't have 100 times more chakra than Kakashi without the Kyubi.
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Old 2007-08-22, 15:44   Link #58
Sinaura
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Staying on Gamabunta's back was anime filler
My apologies for using non-canon material as evidence for my arguments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
learning the various forms of Rasengan so fast is also due to his inhuman stamina and chakra rooted into the presence of the Kyubi. All of Naruto's physical feats are related to the Kyubi one way or another because because his entire way of doing things is based on being an insane chakra powerhouse which is stated to be caused by the Kyubi.

It is a fact, both Kakashi and Jiraiya -and then the Data Book- mentionned his abnormal stamina (and his poor chakra control) was due to the presence of the Kyubi inside him since almost his birth and how Yondaime's seals were set up to allow the chakra of the Kyubi to mix with Naruto's. What we can't know however is how much it changed him but one thing is sure though : he wouldn't have 100 times more chakra than Kakashi without the Kyubi.
It is not a fact that Naruto is the ninja he is because of his unknown origins; whatever they may be. Jiraiyi did refer to the seals allowing the chakras to mix (ch 91) and I agree that this unconscious mixing makes Naruto's chakra pool that much greater, that is the factual part. However, this only gives further proof to my original argument that Naruto's stamina or "powers" are not due to some hidden bloodline from some unknown origin and rather himself and the Kyubi; so until his origins are revealed, that's my stand.

This talk about Kyubi brings up an interesting point; the seal is like a faucet
that drips out Kyubi chakra into Naruto's own, mixing the two slowly. Whenever Naruto willingly unleashes the fox chakra, the two mix at a much more incredible rate. My question is how long is it going to take before the volume of the Kyubi's chakra is larger than that of Naruto's in this joint-pool and what would happen then? That is, if the situation were as elementary as it seems.
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Old 2007-08-22, 17:00   Link #59
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
It is not a fact that Naruto is the ninja he is because of his unknown origins; whatever they may be. Jiraiyi did refer to the seals allowing the chakras to mix (ch 91) and I agree that this unconscious mixing makes Naruto's chakra pool that much greater, that is the factual part. However, this only gives further proof to my original argument that Naruto's stamina or "powers" are not due to some hidden bloodline from some unknown origin and rather himself and the Kyubi; so until his origins are revealed, that's my stand.
I said nothing about some unknown origin, I was only talking about the effect of the presence of the Kyubi. I actually agree with your conclusion and merely disagreed on details such as Naruto doesn't need to come from some uber clan yet to be known to be special. He's already special because he's the Kyubi Jinchuuriki.

Quote:
This talk about Kyubi brings up an interesting point; the seal is like a faucet
that drips out Kyubi chakra into Naruto's own, mixing the two slowly. Whenever Naruto willingly unleashes the fox chakra, the two mix at a much more incredible rate. My question is how long is it going to take before the volume of the Kyubi's chakra is larger than that of Naruto's in this joint-pool and what would happen then? That is, if the situation were as elementary as it seems.
I think it's already the case since a long time but it is already his own in all intent and purpose now. Once the Kyubi's chakra mixed with Naruto's it became his own, even if somehow Naruto was to lose the Kyubi I don't think it would "unmix back".
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Old 2007-08-22, 18:59   Link #60
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and so on up until the "fight" with Kakuzu. But he didn't "kill" him completely either.
It was Kakashi who gave him the last blow.
Kakuzu was totally defeated by Naruto. But you can add this win for Naruto to the list because the whole wind shuriken jutsu training was possible only because the huge chakra and stamina that the demon gives to Naruto. Naruto did train non-stop for long hours, he non-stop used chakra consuming elemental jutsu and rasengan jutsu. And most importantly he did the above mentioned things with hundreds of clones in parallel. He also needed the presence of Yamato and the 1st hokage necklace, because he was training on the highest possible limit of kyuubi-usage.

It's clear that Naruto is not just an average demon user, average demon users use only the natural powers of their demon, for example see Gaara, he used the sand power of Shukaku, or look at Yugito's fight. Naruto can fight like a versatile ninja, he can use various high level ninjutsu moves now: summoning, elemental jutsu with both high level shape and element manipulation, highest skill in kage bunshin, all sorts of henge tricks, even combo henge with Gamabunta. He is also excellent at taijutsu, using his kyuubi-powered high speed and strength movement combined with kage bunshin, for example he copied Sasuke's lion(?) move with using some clones. When Naruto is at his best he uses kyuubi as a chakra and stamina pool, so basically as a ninja tool, like the sharingan or byakugan eyes are used as ninja tools in a fight.

So the interesting question would be which tool is better in the end: a demon or the sharingan? What if Sasuke had the demon power while Naruto having the sharingan?
I think Naruto is meant to be a character like Obito, while Sasuke is meant to be a character like Kakashi. One is on the top of his ninja class while the other at the bottom. However in the Kakashi gaiden we see the power that the sharingan gave to Obito: he was suddenly better in the fight than Kakashi was. The same would be true if there was Naruto and Sasuke instead of Obito and Kakashi, sharingan is really a great ability which is in the beginning probably more usable than a demon. To use a demon years of training and experience is needed and very strong will and mind. Sasuke would surely smarter than Naruto, but to use a demon being smart is not the most important part of the problem. So who did better in using his power? I say both Naruto and Sasuke did a great job, but Naruto had surely more help than Sasuke.
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