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Old 2013-03-06, 15:54   Link #221
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I admit I find it a little annoying when people are super close-minded about old shows. I've encountered this more than once when trying to recommend Maison Ikkoku to people. I consider the show as close to perfection as a romance/comedy anime can attain, but some people won't even give it a chance because of the dated visuals.
It really is a shame. Personally, I do enjoy the more modern look of anime, but if you've got classics like Macross, Maison Ikkoku, Marmalade Boy and so on, there's plenty of stuff from back then to check out too. Heck, my mother recommended Galaxy Express 999 to me, and I didn't even know she had seen anime before.

More on topic though, it's in this current phase I'm in that I doubt I'll be "growing out of anime" for a while, but phases can change quickly, so I won't set anything in stone. I'll just say that right now, I'm having the time of my life with each season's series. :3
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Old 2013-03-06, 18:52   Link #222
Dark Faith
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I can't decide whether I'm growing out of anime or just getting bored from too much

I find myself dropping shows at an alarming rate compared to, say... 1-2 years ago? I guess there's only so much originality in the industry, and after years of watching the same storylines with different twists it's hard to keep yourself interested. Things have gotten so bad that one of my friends refuses to discuss anime with me anymore because he says that when he mentions a show, chances are I've seen part of it and dropped it!

Nowadays I find myself playing/reading more VNs than actually watching anime. At least there if there's a character I don't particulary like, I can just skip her route
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Old 2013-03-06, 18:56   Link #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Faith View Post
I can't decide whether I'm growing out of anime or just getting bored from too much

I find myself dropping shows at an alarming rate compared to, say... 1-2 years ago? I guess there's only so much originality in the industry, and after years of watching the same storylines with different twists it's hard to keep yourself interested. Things have gotten so bad that one of my friends refuses to discuss anime with me anymore because he says that when he mentions a show, chances are I've seen part of it and dropped it!

Nowadays I find myself playing/reading more VNs than actually watching anime. At least there if there's a character I don't particulary like, I can just skip her route
Yeah I think you were left back (got bored).
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Old 2013-03-08, 22:58   Link #224
Dr. Casey
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
What I'm mainly looking for are the new ones / made on the year 2011-2013 (2010 might still be acceptable) cause I don't really appreciate anime with old animation
That's so flaky it's almost moe.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy
I admit I find it a little annoying when people are super close-minded about old shows. I've encountered this more than once when trying to recommend Maison Ikkoku to people. I consider the show as close to perfection as a romance/comedy anime can attain, but some people won't even give it a chance because of the dated visuals.
Man, those people are missing out. Maison Ikkoku is a great story. I am proud to be a Maison Ikkoku baby (I was born a few days before episode 69 aired, the one where everyone spends time at the pool).
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Old 2013-03-08, 23:19   Link #225
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Old anime are awesome, because most of the bad ones have been filtered out by Sturgeon's Law and time. Recent anime are awesome too; they just have the additional benefit of coming in aesthetic styles that I like.

I can see myself possibly losing interest in (I refuse to say "growing out of") future anime as art styles and such change to things I'm not fond of. Like it or not, I'm part of the current generation's subculture that prefers lots of cute girls and heartwarming elements. If Japan chooses to stray from that, I might have to seek my cute fix elsewhere, which may be nowhere since other countries don't seem to give a damn about marketing cute things to adults.
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Old 2013-03-10, 20:29   Link #226
karinvampire
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Totally grew out of anime. I still read manga but I haven't watched a full anime series since 2011(and that was the only series I watched that year).
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Old 2013-03-10, 20:59   Link #227
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What makes most recent anime sucks because they start mining pockets of lonely fujioshi and moefag instead of being more "general". What we got today is a shitty action show for fujioshi audiences like K and mediocre-at-best magical girl show for men like Madoka Magica.
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Old 2013-03-10, 21:36   Link #228
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Originally Posted by Fuyuno View Post
What makes most recent anime sucks because they start mining pockets of lonely fujioshi and moefag instead of being more "general".
As has been said before, there are anime that appeal to "general" Japanese audiences that air in primetime slots on major networks and have leading viewership metrics. You've probably never watched them, and you'd probably hate them. There are also primetime shounen shows and Saturday morning kids shows that have high viewership... but you similarly probably aren't counting those. You're only looking at late-night anime (aimed at the hardcore market), aired in infomercial hours, as if that's indicative of the broader anime market because you don't care about most anime (because your idea of "general" is not "general" at all).

But anyway, how to solve this problem:

1. Find all the most acceptable so-called "general" anime you can find (they do exist fairly consistently over the years).
2. Buy as much merchandise for these shows as you can possibly afford.
3. Push it like crazy to all your "general audience" friends and acquaintances.
4. Get them to buy as much merchandise for these shows as they can possibly afford.
5. Get all of these people to in turn "sell" these shows to their friends and acquaintances.
6. Repeat until anime industry realizes that there's a market there and starts creating more shows to exploit this market.
7. Keep on buying these shows like crazy and encouraging others to do the same.

Or, do nothing, and the industry will continue making shows for the people who are already so-inclined to give them the most money, while occasionally producing more risky works that scratch a creative itch or seek to push the boundaries. Because the "general audience" already has plenty of other things fighting for their time, and that other competition is generally winning. Most adults worldwide stop caring about cartoons unless the shows are part of a narrow list of cultural icons, since they'd generally rather watch whatever else is on -- things that are really "mainstream". Even with more "general" content, I don't see any evidence that most anime will ever really appeal to a broad "general" audience. In many cases, if you're going to do that sort of "general" content, you'd be better off just filming it with real actors anyway, because the barrier to entry (the level of resistance) is lower.


Edit: I want to be clear that my being "short" in my reply is not personal, so sorry if it came across that way. But I'm just annoyed that the discussion never seems to go anywhere and always goes around in circles about the same points. It's always "the problem with the industry is that they cater to the wrong group" (that typically doesn't include the speaker) and/or "they aren't catering to the better group" (that typically does include the speaker). And it's usually based on the most shallow and narrow of stereotypes that don't hold up at all to any factual scrutiny. Is there any continued point in this thread?
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Old 2013-03-10, 22:06   Link #229
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^I dunno how my "general" works but take Slam Dunk for example. While some fujioshi adores it but it obviously not marketed towards them, unlike Kuroko no Basuke which may likely marketed towards them. Kuroshitsuji is obviously marketed towards fujioshi despite being a shounen(teenage boys) manga just because it was serialized in a shounen magazine.
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Old 2013-03-10, 22:10   Link #230
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I think I'm getting to the point where I might wanna stop collecting figures and other merch. I haven't been buying these things for too long but for some reason I feel like moving on. I'm still gonna watch whatever shows interest me every season and get japanese blurays of my favorites, but yeah it's strange I feel like I'm getting ready to just sell off all my stuff and leave that portion of my life behind.
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Old 2013-03-10, 22:41   Link #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuyuno View Post
^I dunno how my "general" works but take Slam Dunk for example. While some fujioshi adores it but it obviously not marketed towards them, unlike Kuroko no Basuke which may likely marketed towards them. Kuroshitsuji is obviously marketed towards fujioshi despite being a shounen(teenage boys) manga just because it was serialized in a shounen magazine.
You don't sell 600k copies per manga volume without a general appeal that goes beyond the fujoshi crowd
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Old 2013-03-10, 22:55   Link #232
Azuma Denton
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Edit: I want to be clear that my being "short" in my reply is not personal, so sorry if it came across that way. But I'm just annoyed that the discussion never seems to go anywhere and always goes around in circles about the same points. It's always "the problem with the industry is that they cater to the wrong group" (that typically doesn't include the speaker) and/or "they aren't catering to the better group" (that typically does include the speaker). And it's usually based on the most shallow and narrow of stereotypes that don't hold up at all to any factual scrutiny. Is there any continued point in this thread?
Well, this is the feeling i getting after seeing this thread and see random rant by people on internet. People always complaining that anime nowadays are shitty without even spending efforts to look for that "minor" good anime.

Anime demography sure is changing, but that because the market it changing. But good anime doesnt vanish. It is still there. You just need to search harder for them.

And for your information, moe anime maybe looks shitty to some people, but keep in mind that there are more people enjoying that moe anime. So instead of complaining, why dont you guys do what mod relentless flame suggest?
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Old 2013-03-10, 23:28   Link #233
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Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
And for your information, moe anime maybe looks shitty to some people, but keep in mind that there are more people enjoying that moe anime. So instead of complaining, why dont you guys do what mod relentless flame suggest?
Well, in fairness, there's camaraderie in negativity, just like everything else. Most of the time people make these statements, it's because they want to rant and find others who feel the same way they do. And then, they'll all sit around and complain about it. And they'll feel better realizing that they're not alone. And the anime industry will keep on doing what it does without them and nothing will change (because it's not like the Japanese industry really pays that much attention to the foreign market anyway these days, nor that opinions expressed in this thread by any of us represent a large like-minded market force).

It may be worth pointing out that this thread was started almost six years ago now. In said time, the refrain hasn't changed, only (many of) the people have. Some of them really did "grow out of anime". And the same advice given six years ago still applies today (which is mostly: look harder, broaden your horizons, ease up on the pace of consumption, and failing all that, move on to new things with a smile). True to the original post, there's nothing new under the sun.
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Old 2013-03-11, 00:22   Link #234
SeijiSensei
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I wonder if the people who feel most abandoned are the ones who think they should enjoy all or most of the shows each season. I'm always amazed when season review threads include postings where people talk about a dozen or even two dozen shows they have watched in a season. As I've said before, I expect to find a handful of shows worth watching in a good season and fewer in a bad one. So when I read discussions about how anime has declined in recent years, I wonder if they reflect unrealistic expectations.

This thread is about "growing out of anime" after all. I suppose if I were seventeen again I might have found shows set in high school with ecchi or moe content appealing enough to watch all or most of them in a season (though as someone whose favorite cartoon as a teen was the satiricial Rocky and Bullwinkle maybe not). It isn't reasonable to expect that the issues that seem important to adolescents are going to be all that compelling in later life. Most live-action television series here in the US feature adults, and I suspect that's true for Japan as well. I still watch the occasional high-school show like Chihayafuru or Kotoura-san, but they have to provide something unique and unusually compelling. There simply aren't many shows that feature a cast of adults like Space Brothers, Bartender, or Oh! Edo Rocket, and I expect there never will be for most of my remaining years.
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Old 2013-03-11, 00:43   Link #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I wonder if the people who feel most abandoned are the ones who think they should enjoy all or most of the shows each season. I'm always amazed when season review threads include postings where people talk about a dozen or even two dozen shows they have watched in a season. As I've said before, I expect to find a handful of shows worth watching in a good season and fewer in a bad one. So when I read discussions about how anime has declined in recent years, I wonder if they reflect unrealistic expectations.
You may be right. I wonder if there is a sort of social pressure that causes people to feel like they need to try to watch as much as possible? That "liking anime" means that you should really be liking "all the anime" (or at least all the "good" anime)? (That your anime experience isn't complete unless you've at least checked-out every show on the list, because otherwise you might miss something!)

There are probably a very small percentage of anime viewers who can watch that much anime on a regular basis and not get burned out (and the ones I know are fairly quick to drop things they don't enjoy -- ruthless attrition to maximize personal enjoyment). There is probably a measure larger who try to watch that much and become increasingly embittered.

Ever since I started watching anime as a hobby, perhaps I've been fortunate to only ever really had time to watch a few shows per season, so this forced me to be pretty choosy. I've usually found things that interest me, but I've never been totally overwhelmed with appealing options either. I've always thought "most anime isn't for me", and been okay with it (even though I'm not saying those shows aren't also good to those who enjoy them). This is why I've said at times that I'm not a "Fan of Anime" as much as a "Fan of Certain Anime" (or of certain kinds of stories often told as anime). I'm not really sure if I can relate to "growing out of anime", except just running out of time to watch, because I'm sure there'll always be something enjoyable out there.
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Old 2013-03-11, 07:50   Link #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I wonder if the people who feel most abandoned are the ones who think they should enjoy all or most of the shows each season. I'm always amazed when season review threads include postings where people talk about a dozen or even two dozen shows they have watched in a season. As I've said before, I expect to find a handful of shows worth watching in a good season and fewer in a bad one. So when I read discussions about how anime has declined in recent years, I wonder if they reflect unrealistic expectations.
I agree that watching many shows can lead to burnout fast. I'm tempted to think that search costs are also a major factor. For people with wide interest it can be quite draining to find a few shows they really want to see every season. Over time it becomes a chore and the emotional investment of trying to get in a new show may not be worth it anymore.

On the other hand, I think there are other groups. People interested in particular anime niches tend to be strongly affected by industry supply. With little effort the whole years can be scanned and determined if it's a quality vintage or not.

Not representative gateway anime may also lead to disappointment. If you're coming in from prime time shonen/Saturday morning cartoons, or cinematic anime, the conventions and topics of late night anime might cause disappointment.
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Old 2013-03-11, 14:16   Link #237
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I wonder if the people who feel most abandoned are the ones who think they should enjoy all or most of the shows each season. I'm always amazed when season review threads include postings where people talk about a dozen or even two dozen shows they have watched in a season. As I've said before, I expect to find a handful of shows worth watching in a good season and fewer in a bad one. So when I read discussions about how anime has declined in recent years, I wonder if they reflect unrealistic expectations.
Unrealistic expectations, and perhaps no realization about changes in the self. I remember watching every single anime series that I could get my hands on when I was new to it. I didn't distinguish too heavily between genres: anime was anime. Being new to it, I also didn't have anything to compare to. I was watching some series that were total crap, but I enjoyed it because it was something new and wonderful to me.

Eventually you reach a point where you've seen enough, and a lot of series feel like repeats of what you've already experienced. It's no longer as stimulating or interesting as it once was. Things also change in our lives as we age, and anime may not have the same appeal during one segment of our lives as it did in another.

The negativity against the industry is interesting, though. I didn't blame the industry when my interest in anime waned; I assumed that I had changed, not the industry. In reality it's a bit of both, but why jump to immediately accuse the industry?
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Old 2013-03-11, 15:42   Link #238
GDiddy
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Originally Posted by Fuyuno View Post
What makes most recent anime sucks because they start mining pockets of lonely fujioshi and moefag instead of being more "general". What we got today is a shitty action show for fujioshi audiences like K and mediocre-at-best magical girl show for men like Madoka Magica.


I've noticed that anime works a lot like Western tv; if one formula works, then of course the studios are going to work that angle as much as they can.

I'm surprised we haven't gotten the deluge of Madoka ripoffs yet
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Old 2013-03-11, 16:04   Link #239
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I wonder if the people who feel most abandoned are the ones who think they should enjoy all or most of the shows each season. I'm always amazed when season review threads include postings where people talk about a dozen or even two dozen shows they have watched in a season. As I've said before, I expect to find a handful of shows worth watching in a good season and fewer in a bad one. So when I read discussions about how anime has declined in recent years, I wonder if they reflect unrealistic expectations.
That's probably a part of it.

Right now, I'm following about six differently currently airing shows. I'm largely enjoying all of them, and at least a couple of them make for excellent discussion fodder. So I'm reasonably happy and content with where anime is at right here, right now.

But would that be the case if I wanted 12 different anime shows to watch? Or 15? Maybe not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post

The negativity against the industry is interesting, though. I didn't blame the industry when my interest in anime waned; I assumed that I had changed, not the industry. In reality it's a bit of both, but why jump to immediately accuse the industry?
I don't think people realized the full ramifications of the the collapse of the North American marketplace for anime back around 2007 or so.

Many basically assumed that anime would simply switch to a newer distribution model to account for that. Over on ANN's forums, I'd frequently read posts talking about how digital distribution was the inevitable wave of the future and how physical media was going to die, oh, pretty much any day now.

The key mistake we often make here in the west is in thinking that Japan is just going to do whatever we do, as if there's literally no other way. If we embrace non-flip smart phones, then they will to. If we turn our backs on DVDs and Blu-Rays, then they will to. But that's not always what happens.

When the North American marketplace for anime collapsed, the anime industry responded by increasingly focusing on the domestic market. And that worked for them. DVDs and Blu-Rays sales have been fairly strong for anime over the past couple of years, with there being big sellers pretty much every season.

The North American marketplace for anime doesn't really matter any more. Lots and lots of western anime fans basically just assumed that the anime industry would do whatever it had to in order to gain all of us as customers. They never imagined that there were limits to how far the anime industry would go to gain us as customers, and hence the anime industry was content to simply focus on the domestic market if a decent profit could be made there.


So there's a real anger out there amongst some anime fans. It's almost like the lingering effects of a romantic breakup.

"Ah, she'll come back to me. She has to. She's used to living with me now! She won't be able to stand life without me."

But she never came back...

"What are you hanging out with that shut-in nerd for?!" her old ex-boyfriend asks her angrily, a couple years later.

"Unlike you, he buys me a lot of nice things. He doesn't mind spending lots and lots of money on me. I guess when you really get down to it, he cares about me more than you ever did." she responds.

Touché
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Old 2013-03-11, 16:54   Link #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So there's a real anger out there amongst some anime fans. It's almost like the lingering effects of a romantic breakup.

"Ah, she'll come back to me. She has to. She's used to living with me now! She won't be able to stand life without me."

But she never came back...

"What are you hanging out with that shut-in nerd for?!" her old ex-boyfriend asks her angrily, a couple years later.

"Unlike you, he buys me a lot of nice things. He doesn't mind spending lots and lots of money on me. I guess when you really get down to it, he cares about me more than you ever did." she responds.

Touché
And that is the summary between the relationship between companies and fans.
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